Grandouet

3ndahalfof6

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Its laughable that you just completely make up stuff to suit your argument.

So, Zarkandar, a horse who hasn't seen a hurdle a month before the festival and had one run around Kempton (polar opposite to Cheltenham) was more forward than a horse who had been on the go over hurdles since the end of October and had reasonable course form with the would be triumph favourite.

Lol.

99% would have won at Aintree, lol. I'll leave it at that.

And today, he didn't lack for fitness, he got there cruising, and has hammered the reigning champion hurdler. Grandouet has run the race of his life today and wasn't good enough.




What's the next excuse. Look I've no doubt that Grandouet is open to vast improvement and may improve past Zarkandar, maybe, but you just refuse to be wrong and thus ridicule yourself with this nonsense.

We all make outlandish statements at times and end up looking silly, but I'm sure you'll be back on to try disprove my arguements.

Time will tell.

Colonel Sanders

The thing about needing the run today, he'd had a race course gallop and on C4 all the paddock judges commented how well he looked pre-race

On the other hand the Bula was run over a different course to the champion (much more of a test). Zarkander is surely more of a stayer than Grandouet so would have been suited more by this. Add in that the bookmaker who appears to rarely get it wrong with Chemical's big guns 1st time out (Hills) were top price Grandouet this morning & Zarkander received 4lbs it's very possible placings may be reversed in March.

The champion hurdle looks wide open this year. Will be interesting to see how Darlan gets on if he takes his chance next week at Ascot. He's the one horse we've yet to see who could blow the market wide open. Although his Cheltenham form from last December is anything but inspiring & he was beaten there in the supreme too

The ground today is unlikely to be similar to what's underhoof in March too.

ft9

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

The thing about needing the run today, he'd had a race course gallop and on C4 all the paddock judges commented how well he looked pre-race

On the other hand the Bula was run over a different course to the champion (much more of a test). Zarkander is surely more of a stayer than Grandouet so would have been suited more by this. Add in that the bookmaker who appears to rarely get it wrong with Chemical's big guns 1st time out (Hills) were top price Grandouet this morning & Zarkander received 4lbs it's very possible placings may be reversed in March.

The champion hurdle looks wide open this year. Will be interesting to see how Darlan gets on if he takes his chance next week at Ascot. He's the one horse we've yet to see who could blow the market wide open. Although his Cheltenham form from last December is anything but inspiring & he was beaten there in the supreme too

If you think a racecourse gallop can compare to race fit you are seriously disillusioned.

A lot of people here could learn a thing or two about buying/breeding, paying for and training a racehorse.
It's quite obvious, to me anyway who has any idea about the game from reading posts the last few days about trainers sending horses to other yards, gallops accounting for fitness, and not specifically you colonel, but the majority of people on here.

And he looked so well because he's a different class, which will prove in time.

RichieLawlor

ft9 wrote: »

If you think a racecourse gallop can compare to race fit you are seriously disillusioned.

A lot of people here could learn a thing or two about buying/breeding, paying for and training a racehorse.
It's quite obvious, to me anyway who has any idea about the game from reading posts the last few days about trainers sending horses to other yards, gallops accounting for fitness, and not specifically you colonel, but the majority of people on here.

And he looked so well because he's a different class, which will prove in time.

This coming from someone who claims Sprinter Sacre is the best ever based on winning the worst Tingle Creek chase ever run?

mdwexford

RoverJames wrote: »

What do you mean by that?

It's hardly Huntley's problem that most of the challenges/logs etc end in a loss and display lack of knowledge, basic gambling smarts and often common sense.

His threads were quite profitable iirc.

Never said it was his problem.

Just any thread I have been linked to there over the past couple of years has been to laugh at clueless cabbages who haven't a notion what's going on.

Actually just noticed on Huntleys OP, loyalty is key in this game?

Either he is levelling or he is bonkers because loyalty certainly is not the key to winning money backing horses.

Morgans

ft9 wrote: »

If you think a racecourse gallop can compare to race fit you are seriously disillusioned.

A lot of people here could learn a thing or two about buying/breeding, paying for and training a racehorse.
It's quite obvious, to me anyway who has any idea about the game from reading posts the last few days about trainers sending horses to other yards, gallops accounting for fitness, and not specifically you colonel, but the majority of people on here.

And he looked so well because he's a different class, which will prove in time.

This proving it in time...the bet wasn't on who would prove it in time. It was who would win at Cheltenham yesterday, in that ground, conceding weight, with any fitness worries. He was beaten without any excuse in a clean run race. People are consoling themselves that regardless of the result yesterday that they were still right and will be proved in time.

Zarkandar isn't necessarily the best hurdler that Grandouet will have to beat in the Champion hurdle.

RichieLawlor

I doubt Barry Geraghty will even ride Grandouet in the Champion!

Colonel Sanders

ft9 wrote: »

If you think a racecourse gallop can compare to race fit you are seriously disillusioned.

Trainers are paid to get horses fit & to place them. All the paddock judges on C4 said he didn't want for fitness so I'm not buying any excuse over match fitness. He came to the last with every chance & didn't go by end of story

Trainers bring horses to concert pitch to win 1st time all the time , SS looked very well before last weeks tingle creek (as did Sanctuaire who I backed).

People who backed Grandouet did their dough. They may get it back come March, we'll see. for the time being get over it

hucklebuck

ft9 wrote: »

If you think a racecourse gallop can compare to race fit you are seriously disillusioned.

A lot of people here could learn a thing or two about buying/breeding, paying for and training a racehorse.
It's quite obvious, to me anyway who has any idea about the game from reading posts the last few days about trainers sending horses to other yards, gallops accounting for fitness, and not specifically you colonel, but the majority of people on here.

And he looked so well because he's a different class, which will prove in time.

This is clearly aimed at me and as I stated on the other thread when I posted originally I didn't know Barber owned the yard Fry trains out of. We have already seen two instances of Nicholls having spats with owners and not too long ago Mullins was saying he makes the plans for Quevegas races when asked what the owner wanted to do. I think you could learn a thing or two if you think someone who owns a horse and sends it to a champion trainer tells the champion trainer what to do.

Different class yet beaten three times by the same horse, maybe you have excuses for the three races too.

I can almost predict what will be spouted in the event he does beat Zarkandar one day and any excuse for Zarkandar will be ruled out of hand:rolleyes:

As for people using the ground as an excuse, Zarkandar won't be inconvenienced by quicker ground either.

ft9

I'll hold my hand up I probably was looking for an excuse after backing him yesterday

When we see him in January all will be revealed, I'm not sure what to make of yesterday in reality. I certainly don't think Zarkander is capable of winning a CH, but then again I'd have given 100/1 on ROR winning it. So 0/3 for Grand against Zark certainly doesn't read too well.

I hope my faith will be rewarded nto.

ft9

RichieLawlor wrote: »

This coming from someone who claims Sprinter Sacre is the best ever based on winning the worst Tingle Creek chase ever run?

Wrong.

hucklebuck

Ft I like both Zarkandar and Grandouet as stated in the Bula thread, I thought Zarkandar was the bet before the race, after yesterday I am not sure he can reverse the form in March even with the 4lb swing.

Before the Champion last year I thought Zarkandar was the biggest threat to Hurricane Fly and to my mind Zarkandar is a more polished horse last year. He ran a massive race last year given he was sick 2 weeks before.

They need to ride him to suit his stamina and if they do he will take all the beating in March imo.

Not sure about backing Grandouet blindly to be honest, he ran a very good race yesterday and when he came off the bridle there was no major response.

sting60

Wow what a lot of posting over a three horse race.Zarkandar could not finish better than fifth beaten 6l [running on]good to firm in the last Champion Hurdle and the winner of the Stan James International has only produced one winner in 38 yrs of CH.I believe the CH winner did not run yesterday as I believe Grandouet will find little in a top race of this nature and ROR won a poor CH last year with Overturn [stayer] second and the Fly [not performing] third with the overrated Binocular fourth.Horses that could improve enough to have a say are Cinders and Ashes,Darlan and Hisaabaat.

droidman123

hucklebuck wrote: »

Ft I like both Zarkandar and Grandouet as stated in the Bula thread, I thought Zarkandar was the bet before the race, after yesterday I am not sure he can reverse the form in March even with the 4lb swing.

Before the Champion last year I thought Zarkandar was the biggest threat to Hurricane Fly and to my mind Zarkandar is a more polished horse last year. He ran a massive race last year given he was sick 2 weeks before.

They need to ride him to suit his stamina and if they do he will take all the beating in March imo.

Not sure about backing Grandouet blindly to be honest, he ran a very good race yesterday and when he came off the bridle there was no major response.

7/1 for zarkander for the champion hurdle is a fantastic price, I,m getting on before the price tumbles.this horse has done nothing wrong and will beat grandouet again. Being from the great zarkaver he has the pedigree for great things and has no problems with the Cheltenham hill.next years champion will be run at a furious pace which will suit him.the fly bombed last year with no feasible excuses,may by he just not a Cheltenham horse....beef or salmon anyone??

hucklebuck

sting60 wrote: »

Wow what a lot of posting over a three horse race, containing three of the four market leaders for the champion hurlde

FYP

klairondavis

droidman123 wrote: »

7/1 for zarkander for the champion hurdle is a fantastic price, I,m getting on before the price tumbles.this horse has done nothing wrong and will beat grandouet again. Being from the great zarkaver he has the pedigree for great things and has no problems with the Cheltenham hill.next years champion will be run at a furious pace which will suit him.the fly bombed last year with no feasible excuses,may by he just not a Cheltenham horse....beef or salmon anyone??

I got the impression that Mullins was never too happy with Hurricane Fly last year. Even when he hosed up at Leopardstown he had drifted like a barge on course. His run in the Morgiana was promising. Hopefully he can stay sound this season because there's not a great amount of depth to the hurdling division on yesterday's evidence. Zarkandar was suited to yesterday's test - ground, getting weight and the stiffer new track. I think he will struggle again in the Champion on better ground and on the easier old course. I accept the pace argument but it worked against him last year to an extent. He didn't have the tactical speed to lie up with them at the crucial stage of the race.

Morgans

sting60 wrote: »

Wow what a lot of posting over a three horse race.Zarkandar could not finish better than fifth beaten 6l [running on]good to firm in the last Champion Hurdle and the winner of the Stan James International has only produced one winner in 38 yrs of CH.I believe the CH winner did not run yesterday as I believe Grandouet will find little in a top race of this nature and ROR won a poor CH last year with Overturn [stayer] second and the Fly [not performing] third with the overrated Binocular fourth.Horses that could improve enough to have a say are Cinders and Ashes,Darlan and Hisaabaat.

Everyone cherrypicking the form. So basically, none of the first four in last years Champion should have won last year with Hurricane Fly disappointing. Dismissed as stayers and overrated. Yet they all were there with a chance turning in. In fact, they were the only ones there with a chance turning in. Rock On Ruby should have won the Christmas Hurdle also last year. People get very forgetful and dismissive. Seems no one can win.

None of the Bula contenders will win either.

Hopes pinned on last year's Supreme hurdle form with more holes than any I can remember. What are the stats for Supreme Novices winning the following year's Champion Hurdle if you are dismissing the Bula form using that basis?

Rock on Ruby is a stayer, Punjabi lacks the class, Katchit is a 5yo, Hurricane Fly is a montjeu, Sublimity no where good enough. Hardy Eustace is a stayer, Rooster Booster is a handicapper. All off-hand reasons for dismissing the winners of the race in the past decade.

The way people are so certain about things on here, no one will win it. For what its worth, I think Grandouet is one of the likelier contenders but Countrywide Flame is being overlooked for no good reason.

ft9

One of the following for me, Hurricane Fly, Countrywide Flame, Grandouet or Binocular.

droidman123

well that really narrows it down

droidman123

Morgans wrote: »

Everyone cherrypicking the form. So basically, none of the first four in last years Champion should have won last year with Hurricane Fly disappointing. Dismissed as stayers and overrated. Yet they all were there with a chance turning in. In fact, they were the only ones there with a chance turning in. Rock On Ruby should have won the Christmas Hurdle also last year. People get very forgetful and dismissive. Seems no one can win.

None of the Bula contenders will win either.

Hopes pinned on last year's Supreme hurdle form with more holes than any I can remember. What are the stats for Supreme Novices winning the following year's Champion Hurdle if you are dismissing the Bula form using that basis?

Rock on Ruby is a stayer, Punjabi lacks the class, Katchit is a 5yo, Hurricane Fly is a montjeu, Sublimity no where good enough. Hardy Eustace is a stayer, Rooster Booster is a handicapper. All off-hand reasons for dismissing the winners of the race in the past decade.

The way people are so certain about things on here, no one will win it. For what its worth, I think Grandouet is one of the likelier contenders but Countrywide Flame is being overlooked for no good reason.

being wise after the event is extremely easy, people here are just giving their forecasts.

droidman123

getting off the subject a bit, would anyone agree that big bucks is just as much a legend as frankel in the grand scheme of things?

RichieLawlor

droidman123 wrote: »

getting off the subject a bit, would anyone agree that big bucks is just as much a legend as frankel in the grand scheme of things?

Thread title says Grandouet, what on earth would illicit such a question in here

droidman123

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Thread title says Grandouet, what on earth would illicit such a question in here

fair point

ste2010

ft9 wrote: »

One of the following for me, Hurricane Fly, Countrywide Flame, Grandouet or Binocular.

Binocular???? Are you on the 11th of the 12 pubs???? Was the Most overrated horse last year it frustrated me everyone suggesting he had a chance last year never mind 2013...McCoy will be on Darlan this year.

Colonel Sanders

ste2010 wrote: »

Binocular???? Are you on the 11th of the 12 pubs???? Was the Most overrated horse last year it frustrated me everyone suggesting he had a chance last year never mind 2013...McCoy will be on Darlan this year.

Actually on the subject of Binocular anyone know when he'll be out?

Chemical said in his stable tour that he was hopeful he'd still be competitive in top 2m hurdles but the option was there to jump a fence.

RichieLawlor

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Actually on the subject of Binocular anyone know when he'll be out?

Chemical said in his stable tour that he was hopeful he'd still be competitive in top 2m hurdles but the option was there to jump a fence.

Won't be ready for the Christmas hurdle apparently, he jumps hurdles like a cat, he would kill himself over fences

droidman123

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Won't be ready for the Christmas hurdle apparently, he jumps hurdles like a cat, he would kill himself over fences

the thread clearly says "grandouet"...why would that illicit such a comment about how binocular jumps???

mdwexford

droidman123 wrote: »

the thread clearly says "grandouet"...why would that illicit such a comment about how binocular jumps???

Because Binocular was brought up in the thread and its relevant to Grandouet and the Champion Hurdle.

Frankel and Big Bucks have zero to do with any of it let alone pointless comparisons of them.

Least you got a thanks for your poor revenge quote though so that's something I guess.

droidman123

mdwexford wrote: »

Because Binocular was brought up in the thread and its relevant to Grandouet and the Champion Hurdle.

Frankel and Big Bucks have zero to do with any of it let alone pointless comparisons of them.

Least you got a thanks for your poor revenge quote though so that's something I guess.

i dont do childish "revenge" quotes. when i commented about big bucks and frankel i clearly stated it was getting off the subject a bit. i know the thread is about grandouet, but mayby my love of horse racing got the better of me and i drifted a bit, happy christmas and good luck with your betting selections : )