Surrender of firearms to AGS

Our man in Havana

Is it acceptable to simply hand in your firearms to AGS if you are not renewing your licences.

Cass

You can, but there are better ways.

If you store them in a dealers, and then cancel/do not renew your licenses, and get a letter from the dealer to say they are stored with him they will accept this. Then the dealer may sell them on your behalf. He may ask for a commission/fee for this, but it is a far better option than simply surrendering them.

When surrendered the AGS usually just give them to a dealer for destruction. Unlike a firearm that is refused, where there are rules in relation to AGS selling them, storing them for a specified amount of time, and then destroying if they don't sell, etc. by storing them for the purpose of selling in a dealers is a better option.

When your licenses are cancelled the dealer cannot legally hand them out to you so they are as good as gone.


I would look into storing/selling them via a dealer before thinking about surrendering them.

Our man in Havana

I have already asked a dealer and he is not interested in taking them in. He says they are worthless.

So I am running out of options. I am hoping to get into fostering children in the new year and I was told it would be for the best to become a gun free house.

Cass

Well that's crap. They are not worthless. Some people are trying to leave guns into dealers to be sold, but looking silly money for them. So thy sit for a while, and the dealer cannot really "deal" as it's not their stock to trade on.

In your situation where you are considering surrendering them, which gets you nothing, i would ask around. Try one or two other dealers, and say you are prepared to take anything, and offer him his cut. This should sweeten the deal, and put at least a few quid in your pocket.

Use the for sale section. Just put up all the details, pictures, etc. and ask for whatever you can live with taking for them. Don't worry about the price you ask for. if people thin it's too much they will haggle you down. If they don't sell via the for sale section, and no dealer will take them then i would look at surrendering them after Christmas.

just don;t rush to a decision right now.

juice1304

you could give them to me, i will insure they have a nice new home:D:D. or go to your local gun club an see if there is a new young lad getting into shooting that dose'nt yet have a firearm or maybe can't afford one.:)

deerhunter1

Cass wrote: »

Well that's crap. They are not worthless. Some people are trying to leave guns into dealers to be sold, but looking silly money for them. So thy sit for a while, and the dealer cannot really "deal" as it's not their stock to trade on.

In your situation where you are considering surrendering them, which gets you nothing, i would ask around. Try one or two other dealers, and say you are prepared to take anything, and offer him his cut. This should sweeten the deal, and put at least a few quid in your pocket.

Use the for sale section. Just put up all the details, pictures, etc. and ask for whatever you can live with taking for them. Don't worry about the price you ask for. if people thin it's too much they will haggle you down. If they don't sell via the for sale section, and no dealer will take them then i would look at surrendering them after Christmas.

just don;t rush to a decision right now.

Correct 100% put them up here what are they out of curiosity

Our man in Havana

.22lr Remmington 597 SA with scope.

12 G single barrell Baikal.

cw67irl

Chances are they would sell on here, Or you could always donate them :-)

rowa

Our man in Havana wrote: »

I have already asked a dealer and he is not interested in taking them in. He says they are worthless.

So I am running out of options. I am hoping to get into fostering children in the new year and I was told it would be for the best to become a gun free house.

Why a gun free house , if they are locked up securely and you have the key wheres the problem ?

Our man in Havana

This is the HSE we are talking about. They make the rules and they make Satan look reasonable.

Cork24

How much are you looking for if you are going to Sell them,

.22 Rifles are all over the place, every dealer is flooded with them...

rowa

Our man in Havana wrote: »

This is the HSE we are talking about. They make the rules and they make Satan look reasonable.

So if you are a gunsmith ,gundealer , gamekeeper, detective or anyone else who has to have firearms in the house , the hse will ban you from being a foster parent ? More eu style daftness.

IRLConor

rowa wrote: »

More eu style daftness.

In fairness, it's nothing to do with the EU. If the EU were involved there'd be less chance of stupid rules about guns. Most other EU countries are much more reasonable about firearms (UK excluded).

OP: If worst comes to worst, donate them to someone in your local gun club. There'll be someone with a son/daughter looking to start shooting for cheap or someone who currently has a shotgun and is looking for a rifle or vice versa. It would be better to get no money and have the guns put to good use rather than get no money and have them destroyed.

Savage93

So I am running out of options. I am hoping to get into fostering children in the new year and I was told it would be for the best to become a gun free house.

That's bull****, I'm a foster parent , HSE vetted & approved, firearm ownership never an issue. I have a friend who's an RFD and a foster parent.

rowa

Savage93 wrote: »

So I am running out of options. I am hoping to get into fostering children in the new year and I was told it would be for the best to become a gun free house.

That's bull****, I'm a foster parent , HSE vetted & approved, firearm ownership never an issue. I have a friend who's an RFD and a foster parent.

Sounds like the usual unaccountable civil servant with an axe to grind over firearms ownership. Much like some chief super's :P.

no12

I know a fella who recently tried to surrender a firearm to AGS and he was told it would cost him €85.... I was under the impression they had to take it off you once you didn't want it?

bogteal

So I am running out of options. I am hoping to get into fostering children in the new year and I was told it would be for the best to become a gun free house.

That's bull****, I'm a foster parent , HSE vetted & approved, firearm ownership never an issue. I have a friend who's an RFD and a foster parent.

Same as. Fostering with years its not a problem.

rowa

no12 wrote: »

I know a fella who recently tried to surrender a firearm to AGS and he was told it would cost him €85.... I was under the impression they had to take it off you once you didn't want it?

Yes but they don't like having firearms in the station and pass them on to the local dealers for destruction etc and the dealer of course charge them for this.

Jonty

One would imagine that being certified fit to possess a firearm by a Superintendent of AGS, would reflect well on your moral fibre.

Well fxck me, the system is a mess.

no12

rowa wrote: »

Yes but they don't like having firearms in the station and pass them on to the local dealers for destruction etc and the dealer of course charge them for this.

I understand that and I would expect the dealer isn't going to destroy the gun for nothing but I remember a friend wanted to get rid of a gun AGS wouldn't take it dealer told him to ring FPU and AGS then took the gun in for destruction. Now it was around the time of the Licensing system change could have been just for that considering the large of amounts of guns people were giving up.

On another note I know a guy who recently applied to renew his license that was expiring (about a week left on license) dropped forms down to FO and he said he wouldn't get it done before the expiration of the license. So the FO rang him the day his license expired to bring the gun down to him so down he went and the FO took the gun and stuck it in a cabinet in the station. It's an old gun left to my friend by his uncle an old Belgian made Browning A1 in mint condition hardly used. The FO took a shine to the gun and offered him a paltry sum of money for it.. He refused saying he wanted to keep it for his son sentimental reasons and that. He contacted an RFD soon after about storage and the value of it and he agreed to store it. The FO dropped gun down to RFD, the RFD aware of him offering to buy it and chatting told him what it was worth. The FO then contacted my friend with an improved offer (25% of the value) and he refused again. I told him to report it but he doesn't want the hassle. What would you do?

bravestar

no12 wrote: »

I understand that and I would expect the dealer isn't going to destroy the gun for nothing but I remember a friend wanted to get rid of a gun AGS wouldn't take it dealer told him to ring FPU and AGS then took the gun in for destruction. Now it was around the time of the Licensing system change could have been just for that considering the large of amounts of guns people were giving up.

On another note I know a guy who recently applied to renew his license that was expiring (about a week left on license) dropped forms down to FO and he said he wouldn't get it done before the expiration of the license. So the FO rang him the day his license expired to bring the gun down to him so down he went and the FO took the gun and stuck it in a cabinet in the station. It's an old gun left to my friend by his uncle an old Belgian made Browning A1 in mint condition hardly used. The FO took a shine to the gun and offered him a paltry sum of money for it.. He refused saying he wanted to keep it for his son sentimental reasons and that. He contacted an RFD soon after about storage and the value of it and he agreed to store it. The FO dropped gun down to RFD, the RFD aware of him offering to buy it and chatting told him what it was worth. The FO then contacted my friend with an improved offer (25% of the value) and he refused again. I told him to report it but he doesn't want the hassle. What would you do?

Report what? That someone is offering to buy his gun for less than its worth?

garv123

no12 wrote: »

On another note I know a guy who recently applied to renew his license that was expiring (about a week left on license) dropped forms down to FO and he said he wouldn't get it done before the expiration of the license. So the FO rang him the day his license expired to bring the gun down to him so down he went and the FO took the gun and stuck it in a cabinet in the station. It's an old gun left to my friend by his uncle an old Belgian made Browning A1 in mint condition hardly used. The FO took a shine to the gun and offered him a paltry sum of money for it.. He refused saying he wanted to keep it for his son sentimental reasons and that. He contacted an RFD soon after about storage and the value of it and he agreed to store it. The FO dropped gun down to RFD, the RFD aware of him offering to buy it and chatting told him what it was worth. The FO then contacted my friend with an improved offer (25% of the value) and he refused again. I told him to report it but he doesn't want the hassle. What would you do?

The FO is a shooting man, likes the gun and wants to buy it.. whats to report.. theres nothing illegal about making offers under the asking price for a gun..

LB6

A gun free house is a whole load of crap, trust me. I was a child minder, and I'm HSE vetted and I shoot and they know that. I was never asked to be a gun free house.

What if you were a farmer and wanted to foster? are you supposed to give up the O/U, SS or the rifle, I think not, your family and impending family would depend on you being able to defend your livestock.

Think again before getting rid of them.

Just my 2c worth.

no12

Well the way it was portrayed to me was that he thought my friend didn't know much about guns and that he could take advantage of the opportunity. After he adamantly explained he wasn't getting rid of the gun and when the RFD received the gun and he told the FO what it was worth he then came back again with another offer after being told the first time it wasn't for sale. Petty and all is it sounds but is the FO job not to process the license applications and not in the buying and selling of firearms or harassing license holders if they would like to sell their firearm? Surely this isn't common practice?

Hunter21

Don't worry it's not common practice.
There is a thread on here listing gun dealers in Ireland, have a look there, ring another dealer close to you.
Explain your case, see what he says and how to proceed.
If you have no licence on the gun don't transport it, as you could get into hot water.

rowa

no12 wrote: »

Well the way it was portrayed to me was that he thought my friend didn't know much about guns and that he could take advantage of the opportunity. After he adamantly explained he wasn't getting rid of the gun and when the RFD received the gun and he told the FO what it was worth he then came back again with another offer after being told the first time it wasn't for sale. Petty and all is it sounds but is the FO job not to process the license applications and not in the buying and selling of firearms or harassing license holders if they would like to sell their firearm? Surely this isn't common practice?

I have heard of similar goings on with a now , thankfully retired member. an old man died leaving behind two valuable shotguns, this guy was after the guns for himself and when his daughter told him she had the guns collected by a rfd from her fathers house he went ballistic telling her what she had done was illegal.

Hibrion

Our man in Havana wrote: »

I have already asked a dealer and he is not interested in taking them in. He says they are worthless.

So I am running out of options. I am hoping to get into fostering children in the new year and I was told it would be for the best to become a gun free house.

There are RFDs in the country fostering children. Having guns securely store din a house shouldn't enter into the equation when you want to give children a home. Tell them they are gone, they have no way of checking nor are they entitled to.

Cass

Hunter21 wrote: »

If you have no licence on the gun don't transport it, as you could get into hot water.

If you have no license due to not renewing them then the OP must store them or surrender them otherwise he will be in possession of unlicensed firearms.

If the OP cannot find a dealer to take them then the next best option is to donate to a gun club/range that will make use of them.


Failing all that then surrender is the only option.

deerhunter1

rowa wrote: »

I have heard of similar goings on with a now , thankfully retired member. an old man died leaving behind two valuable shotguns, this guy was after the guns for himself and when his daughter told him she had the guns collected by a rfd from her fathers house he went ballistic telling her what she had done was illegal.

i know of similar experiences;)

knockon

no12 wrote: »

I know a fella who recently tried to surrender a firearm to AGS and he was told it would cost him €85.... I was under the impression they had to take it off you once you didn't want it?

I always find that amusing. If you did'nt want to spend any money on the surrender of a firearm here's what you could do.

"Hi Garda. I have a firearm and I have no intention of licensing it, what are you going to do about it?" "I'am afraid I have to seize it Sir" replies the Garda.

Is it that easy?

juice1304

if you don't want the .22 you can give it to me:D If you want to get rid of them and don't want to pay for it then ger yourself an angle grinder and cut the bolt/receiver and barrel and give the garda a bag of bits. That is what they are charging you fr anyway.

bravestar

knockon wrote: »

I always find that amusing. If you did'nt want to spend any money on the surrender of a firearm here's what you could do.

"Hi Garda. I have a firearm and I have no intention of licensing it, what are you going to do about it?" "I'am afraid I have to seize it Sir" replies the Garda.

Is it that easy?

No. The reply would go something like this.

"Your being arrested for unlawful possession of a firearm. You are not obliged to say anything unless you wish to do so..." replies the Garda. "I will be sure to pass on your smart arse comments to the DPP and the judge" he went on to say.

Our man in Havana

Simply do it before the FAC expires. Then they can do nothing.

bravestar

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Simply do it before the FAC expires. Then they can do nothing.

I wouldnt count on it. Seriously lads, in a country where firearms ownership is a privilege, this kind of attitude does no one any good.

Grizzly 45

So what would your advice on how to dispose of it via the AGS??

bravestar

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So what would your advice on how to dispose of it via the AGS??

Ring your local FO and ask them as things can vary depending on local arrangements. To go in with the arrogant attitude displayed in some of the above posts is ridiculous and I would not recommend it. Apart from the personal issues that could arise from it, it damages the shooting community as a whole.

knockon

bravestar wrote: »

No. The reply would go something like this.

"Your being arrested for unlawful possession of a firearm. You are not obliged to say anything unless you wish to do so..." replies the Garda. "I will be sure to pass on your smart arse comments to the DPP and the judge" he went on to say.

I was being slightly facetious in my wording but not entirely inaccurate. A friend of mine who is a member of ASG had been handed more than one firearm by people who could not afford to a) renew their FAC or b) wanted to dispose of an old firearm without incurring costs. He gladly removed them but that as you say may vary from district to district. Telling 85 year old Farmer Ned who never licensed his rusted side by side be is going to be arrested? I don't think so - you guys are busy enought as it is with limited resources.

bravestar

knockon wrote: »

I was being slightly facetious in my wording but not entirely inaccurate. A friend of mine who is a member of ASG had been handed more than one firearm by people who could not afford to a) renew their FAC or b) wanted to dispose of an old firearm without incurring costs. He gladly removed them but that as you say may vary from district to district. Telling 85 year old Farmer Ned who never licensed his rusted side by side be is going to be arrested? I don't think so - you guys are busy enought as it is with limited resources.

There is quite a difference in what you are saying above compared to what you had previously said and in the context of the above post, Farmer Ned would probably be just fine

FISMA

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Is it acceptable to simply hand in your firearms to AGS if you are not renewing your licences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS_YU3LwpIM

Seriously though, the idea of surrendering a firearm makes me cringe.

At the very least, make some fella's day by making the firearm a donor. It is close to Christmas.

There's something special about a gun that was given to you...

Sparks

FISMA wrote: »

Seriously though, the idea of surrendering a firearm makes me cringe.

Depends - I saw a few of the shotguns handed in after the Misc.Provisions Firearms Act a few years ago; I wouldn't have picked one up for fear of tetanus, let alone fired one

rowa

juice1304 wrote: »

if you don't want the .22 you can give it to me:D If you want to get rid of them and don't want to pay for it then ger yourself an angle grinder and cut the bolt/receiver and barrel and give the garda a bag of bits. That is what they are charging you fr anyway.

Isn't it illegal to modify a firearm ? If so technically chopping one up could be see as modifying ?

Sparks

rowa wrote: »

Isn't it illegal to modify a firearm ? If so technically chopping one up could be see as modifying ?

You'd tick off any judge you brought that up in front of, but yes, technically, the Gardai are meant to witness a firearm being destroyed (so that you couldn't, say, chop up the barrel of one firearm and the action of another and some random scrap metal that looked similar enough and submit a bag of bits and go off and make a firearm from the other bits that had no paper trail in the system). That's not to say they witness every last one, mind.

Our man in Havana

It would cease to be a firearm. No offence committed.

I shall invite them around to my shed so they can have a good look.

Sparks

Our man in Havana wrote: »

It would cease to be a firearm. No offence committed.

...except that it wouldn't legally cease to be a firearm.
Yeah, I know, it's stupid. Who was claiming Irish firearms law was a beacon of good sense in a world gone mad?

I shall invite them around to my shed so they can have a good look.

Pretty decent idea actually (assuming your licence is still in effect, that is). No law saying it has to be an RFD that does the chopping, and if you anglegrind through the action (and probably the barrel in a few places) with the local garda looking on, there's no reason that shouldn't suffice. It'll take a few minutes, but lay on a cup of tea and it should be grand.

Cork24

The only way that it would be classed Not a Fire Weapon, Is if the Firing pin is taken out

&

the Barrel of the gun is filled. to get this done you are looking at around well over 100 euros,

your Only option would be to give it freely to a gun club that a member would be looking to start off, give it to the Cops that cost money to hand over,

or sell them privately .. but if you are selling them you need to act quick as if you still have them and your gun license runs out you could be in deep water

juice1304

If he cuts it into bits with an angle grinder it is not a functioning firearm. He would'nt even need to cut it into bits chop the firing pin cut the bolt at a 45 degree angle and make some cuts in the receiver and barrel job done cost nothing and all a dealer is going to do is the same thing once the cuts are made it is a useless lump of scrap metal. It dose'nt have to be done by a dealer there is no law stating it must be a dealer.

juice1304

"Where a firearm is handed over to the Garda Síochána for destruction, this destruction shall be carried out as soon as is practicable by a registered firearms dealer or other authorised person and supervised by a member of the Garda Síochána."

Sparks

juice1304 wrote: »

If he cuts it into bits with an angle grinder it is not a functioning firearm.

Yup.
Now show me the bit in the Firearms Act that says it's not a firearm if it's not functional.
And yes, the law really is that dumb.

Firearms Act, Section One wrote:

“firearm” means—
(a) a lethal firearm or other lethal weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged,

(b) an air gun (including an air rifle and air pistol) with a muzzle energy greater than one joule or any other weapon incorporating a barrel from which any projectile can be discharged with such a muzzle energy,

(c) a crossbow,

(d) any type of stun gun or other weapon for causing any shock or other disablement to a person by means of electricity or any other kind of energy emission,

(e) a prohibited weapon,

(f) any article which would be a firearm under any of the foregoing paragraphs but for the fact that, owing to the lack of a necessary component part or parts, or to any other defect or condition, it is incapable of discharging a shot, bullet or other missile or projectile or of causing a shock or other disablement, as the case may be,

(g) except where the context otherwise requires, any component part of any article referred to in any of the foregoing paragraphs and, without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, the following articles shall be deemed to be such component parts:
(i) telescope sights with a light beam, or telescope sights with an electronic light amplification device or an infra-red device, designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b), (c) or (e),
(ii) a silencer designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b) or (e), and
(iii) any object—
(I) manufactured for use as a component in connection with the operation of a firearm, and
(II) without which it could not function as originally designed,

and

(h) a device capable of discharging blank ammunition and to be used as a starting gun or blank firing gun, and includes a restricted firearm, unless otherwise provided or the context otherwise requires;

Sparks

Also,

Firearm:




Fire Weapon:



I mean, come on lad...

deerhunter1

Sparks wrote: »

...except that it wouldn't legally cease to be a firearm.
Yeah, I know, it's stupid. Who was claiming Irish firearms law was a beacon of good sense in a world gone mad?


Pretty decent idea actually (assuming your licence is still in effect, that is). No law saying it has to be an RFD that does the chopping, and if you anglegrind through the action (and probably the barrel in a few places) with the local garda looking on, there's no reason that shouldn't suffice. It'll take a few minutes, but lay on a cup of tea and it should be grand.

I do not think that will work, the firearm is still being modified (for the want of a better word), which you are not allowed do, also AGS will want written proof the gun is "de-commissioned" even though it is in pieces,which you would not be qualified to do.

Sparks

deerhunter1 wrote: »

I do not think that will work, the firearm is still being modified (for the want of a better word), which you are not allowed do, also AGS will want written proof the gun is "de-commissioned" even though it is in pieces,which you would not be qualified to do.

No, but the Garda watching you is. RFDs have no special qualifications in the eyes of the state to work on firearms like this, don't forget - it's Registered Firearms Dealer, not gunsmith.