Eminem - Slane 2013 - All discussion ***No ticket sales/swaps permitted***

ghostdancer

Sir_Badshot wrote: »

I was side stage working. Thought he was miming straight away.

Or he can really throw his voice very well, mic being 3 foot away from his mouth and perfect vocals....

btw- I was working and sober an seen enough of this stuff to spot a mime.

His voice was live but a constant a vocal backing track was present. Bloody Obvious when you stand next to it.

so was he miming, or sing live with a backing track?

rappers often rap over a backing track as it's far too hard to rap all the lyrics. they either have a backing track to make up the shortfall, another rapper/hypeman to fill in at the end of lines, or else no backing track and lyrics are missed all over the place and there's silence over the instrumental.

Sir_Badshot

ghostdancer wrote: »

so was he miming, or sing live with a backing track?

rappers often rap over a backing track as it's far too hard to rap all the lyrics. they either have a backing track to make up the shortfall, another rapper/hypeman to fill in at the end of lines, or else no backing track and lyrics are missed all over the place and there's silence over the instrumental.

both, u just said it there yourself...

he was singing and his voice kept singing when no mic present. not strictly miming per say

kippy

Maybe I just don't get rap, but surely if you need to have someone else sing along with you in case you miss something, or have a "backing track" to assist you, you ain't a very good live performer.......
In the same way as miming is the sign of a poor performer.

That coupled with an 80 quid a ticket, 70 minute set by the headliner would piss me off no end. But as I said, maybe I just don't get rap.

Jimmy Iovine

kippy wrote: »

Maybe I just don't get rap, but surely if you need to have someone else sing along with you in case you miss something, or have a "backing track" to assist you, you ain't a very good live performer.......
In the same way as miming is the sign of a poor performer.

That coupled with an 80 quid a ticket, 70 minute set by the headliner would piss me off no end. But as I said, maybe I just don't get rap.

Got it in one.

bennyl10

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Got it in one.

Nope ye just dont get live shows.

First live show I've seen where I've genuinelly wanted my money back.. 70 minute headline set at Slane with parts of songs & a fecking miming section.. .absolute disgrace.

Jay-z raps and puts on.a 2.5hour show for godsake! Eminen has no excuses.. he's just a ****eclive artist.

Boom_Bap

kippy wrote: »

Maybe I just don't get rap, but surely if you need to have someone else sing along with you in case you miss something, or have a "backing track" to assist you, you ain't a very good live performer.......
In the same way as miming is the sign of a poor performer.

That coupled with an 80 quid a ticket, 70 minute set by the headliner would piss me off no end. But as I said, maybe I just don't get rap.

The first distinguishment to make is that there is a difference between singing and rapping. Singing would generally be a low amount of words per line. Rapping can double or tripple the amount of words per line.
Eminem in particular uses alot of internal rhyming patterns which make his lines more complex to deliver. So by the time one reaches the end of a line, they need to take a breath to start on the next.
Also take into account there is alot of other movements on stage which leads to puff being used elsewhere.

In most circumstances, there would be a hype man to basically say the last 1 or 2 words of a line, to allow the rapper to prepare for the next, and to also help out on the chorus and in general as an additional entertainer onstage.

When there is no hype man available, the rapper would generally rap louder over thier own vocaled track so that the backing track fills in the last word or 2 per line and make the song sound more seemless in the live setting.

It's actually quite the disipline to write a song, learn the lyrics and then unlearn them for live performances.


Now if you compare this to a Dave Guetta show, where he arrives on stage, pressed a play button and then pretends to twist nobs and do a live performance, that is a totally different thing.

SherlockWatson

bennyl10 wrote: »

Nope ye just dont get live shows.

First live show I've seen where I've genuinelly wanted my money back.. 70 minute headline set at Slane with parts of songs & a fecking miming section.. .absolute disgrace.

Jay-z raps and puts on.a 2.5hour show for godsake! Eminen has no excuses.. he's just a ****eclive artist.

Jay Z and kanye together put on a 2 1/2 hour show, please don't pretend it was him up there for that long on his own.

You're obviously the person who doesn't get live shows.

Jimmy Iovine

Almost every rapper uses a backing track. One of the few I know that doesn't is Freddie Gibbs. The music regularly stops during his performances and he raps acapella with very little input from his hypeman.

He is one of the most talented rappers around but his breath control is outstanding. Very, very few rappers could do what he does or would even want to do it. I don't think he really cares about impressions and doesn't want a perfectly polished performance.

It'd be refreshing to see other rappers do this, but I've no problem with hypemen and backing tracks. If a hypeman is good then it really adds to the performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZiNv1ojdTM

The following is one of the best verses that I've heard on a track. The fact that he can actually sing it live is incredible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emc4wUPFdbU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRompQ8bGAc

ghostdancer

Sir_Badshot wrote: »

both, u just said it there yourself...

he was singing and his voice kept singing when no mic present. not strictly miming per say

it can't be both. he was either miming or not, and by what you've said, he wasn't.

he was rapping over his own vocal backing track, like many other rappers do live.

bennyl10

SherlockWatson wrote: »

Jay Z and kanye together put on a 2 1/2 hour show, please don't pretend it was him up there for that long on his own.

You're obviously the person who doesn't get live shows.

He at least rapped for his entire section & had full songs! Also on his last solo tour jay-z plaYed 2 hours playing full songs!

To think 70 minutes is acceptable for a Slane headliner and for an artist to only perform snippets of his own.songs is diabolical!..

The 28 song set always makes me laugh.. was about 14 full songs!

Boom_Bap

ghostdancer wrote: »

it can't be both. he was either miming or not, and by what you've said, he wasn't.

he was rapping over his own vocal backing track, like many other rappers do live.

This is a mime:



I'm guessing he wasnt doing this.

Lip synching is the term you are looking for.

I believe he wasn't lip synching, just taking breaks and letting the backing track fill in the gaps.

ghostdancer

bennyl10 wrote: »

Jay-z raps and puts on.a 2.5hour show for godsake! Eminen has no excuses.. he's just a ****eclive artist.

the same Jay-Z who doesn't bother finishing lines when rapping? or has someone like Memphis Bleek finishing his lines?

and as pointed out, Jay-Z doesn't do 2.5 hour shows. when i saw him solo it was less than 90mins.
Watch The Throne tour he had Kanye onstage and they alternated each song, and he had a 30min break in the middle while Kanye did his own solo ones.

DC10555

Boom_Bap wrote: »

This is a mime:

THANK GOD I wasn't the only one to note this, the whole thread has been driving me insane because of people calling it "miming"..

melted_face

if people don't know why a rapper would need to use a backing track during a live show, then i would question what they are doing on a thread like this.

it was clear to me that em was rapping for the most part but when you're rushing through 20+ songs, one straight after the other, from his 15 year old back catalogue, while running and jumping around, it is fairly likely that you're going to miss a few words here and there. but for the most part you could clearly hear him rapping and the bits he wasn't were so few and so short that they're hardly worth mentioning, let alone enough to accuse him of lip synching (or miming, bizarrely.)

btw, tyler was funny as fcuk.

SherlockWatson

melted_face wrote: »

if people don't know why a rapper would need to use a backing track during a live show, then i would question what they are doing on a thread like this.

it was clear to me that em was rapping for the most part but when you're rushing through 20+ songs, one straight after the other, from his 15 year old back catalogue, while running and jumping around, it is fairly likely that you're going to miss a few words here and there. but for the most part you could clearly hear him rapping and the bits he wasn't were so few and so short that they're hardly worth mentioning, let alone enough to accuse him of lip synching (or miming, bizarrely.)

btw, tyler was funny as fcuk.

I see you Mr black security guard!

melted_face

SherlockWatson wrote: »

I see you Mr black security guard!

give it up for black people!!!!!

Sir_Badshot

ghostdancer wrote: »

it can't be both. he was either miming or not, and by what you've said, he wasn't.

he was rapping over his own vocal backing track, like many other rappers do live.

Well, he's using a backing track, thats Lame as fuk no matter how you cut it.

melted_face

Sir_Badshot wrote: »

Well, he's using a backing track, thats Lame as fuk no matter how you cut it.

oh my

PrettyBoy

Kendrick Lamar is brilliant live, he was here in January and there was no backing track for any of the songs he performed, just beats. Being able to rap a full song like this live and not losing your breath is incredibly impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agONtiTu2wI

As I said earlier, I believe that if Kendrick had been a supporting act in Slane instead of Plan B he would have put on a better show than Eminem did.

kippy

Boom_Bap wrote: »

The first distinguishment to make is that there is a difference between singing and rapping. Singing would generally be a low amount of words per line. Rapping can double or tripple the amount of words per line.
Eminem in particular uses alot of internal rhyming patterns which make his lines more complex to deliver. So by the time one reaches the end of a line, they need to take a breath to start on the next.
Also take into account there is alot of other movements on stage which leads to puff being used elsewhere.

In most circumstances, there would be a hype man to basically say the last 1 or 2 words of a line, to allow the rapper to prepare for the next, and to also help out on the chorus and in general as an additional entertainer onstage.

When there is no hype man available, the rapper would generally rap louder over thier own vocaled track so that the backing track fills in the last word or 2 per line and make the song sound more seemless in the live setting.
(Edit, let me be clear, I've no time for "live" Guetta or artists of a similiar ilk's gigs)
Maybe I am just old school and prefer to hear a live show by the artist I paid to see, who gives it their all.

It's actually quite the disipline to write a song, learn the lyrics and then unlearn them for live performances.


Now if you compare this to a Dave Guetta show, where he arrives on stage, pressed a play button and then pretends to twist nobs and do a live performance, that is a totally different thing.

Meh,
Talking fast over a backing track with assistance is one thing, singing live while playing an instrument is another.

But thanks for the lesson.

EDIT: Sorry, that may sound a bit condescending - to add, I have no time for "live" acts like Guetta either.
But for me, the more talented live acts out, the ones I enjoy, tend to sing on their own merits, usually while playing an instrument which is a talent in itself. They'd generally give you value for your euros as well. But maybe I am just old school.

SherlockWatson

kippy wrote: »

Meh,
Talking fast over a backing track with assistance is one thing, singing live while playing an instrument is another.

But thanks for the lesson.

Cheers for that bountiful knowledge.

Didn't realise they were two different things :rolleyes:

Bobby Baccala

ghostdancer wrote: »

the same Jay-Z who doesn't bother finishing lines when rapping? or has someone like Memphis Bleek finishing his lines?

and as pointed out, Jay-Z doesn't do 2.5 hour shows. when i saw him solo it was less than 90mins.
Watch The Throne tour he had Kanye onstage and they alternated each song, and he had a 30min break in the middle while Kanye did his own solo ones.

This whole memphis bleek finishing jays lines thing you've picked up has been done since hip hop started, that's called having a hypeman, onky unknown by people that are clueless about hip hop.

Jimmy Iovine

kippy wrote: »

Meh,
Talking fast over a backing track with assistance is one thing, singing live while playing an instrument is another.

But thanks for the lesson.

EDIT: Sorry, that may sound a bit condescending - to add, I have no time for "live" acts like Guetta either.
But for me, the more talented live acts out, the ones I enjoy, tend to sing on their own merits, usually while playing an instrument which is a talent in itself. They'd generally give you value for your euros as well. But maybe I am just old school.

I can't believe I'm bothering replying to this but the vast majority of singers are crap live. They can't hit any of the notes. Playing a guitar as well doesn't make them any better.

And if you think that rapping is just a person "talking fast over a backing track with assistance" then you haven't a clue at all.

______________________________

Moving on, I found an interesting article that was written in 1996 and it addresses some of the issues raised in this thread. The main one being the 'problem' of rappers rapping over their own vocals.

Just in case some people don't believe me, rappers have been doing it since forever. Rakim is referenced as doing it in this article all the way back in 1988, before I was even born.

The lyrical God Rakim had taken the stage about forty minutes earlier, mic in hand. Actually, he had risen out from below the stage, hoisted into a giant pyramid as money-green laser lights flashed around him. He had strutted in front of the crowd like a king, draped in a halo of shiny gold. Over 20,000 fans screamed, a sold-out arena full, our mouths open and arms outstretched. In front of our eyes and ears was the poet prodigy with a voice that melts steel – this is who we came to see. Eric B. had cued up a record, and then it happened. The microphone fiend broke live hip-hop rule number one. Rakim rapped over his own vocals.

Now, let’s think about that for a moment. It was 1988, mind you, and Paid In Full was already a certified classic. As headliners at the full-size Philadelphia Spectrum, Eric and Ra had obviously put money into their set, creating lavish designs that emphasized their status as the biggest players in the business. They forked over mad loot for the costumes alone – those custom-made, Dapper Dan, Fendi leather items. They were at the peak of their fame and glory. Now it was time to deliver, and what did they have for their fans?

A sped-up, whiny, processed cheese version of Rakim’s voice emitted from the speakers as the lyrics began. It was painful and obvious as Rakim’s real voice struggled to match the pitch and intensity of the recorded version. The resulting sound was a discordant mush, an anti-harmony that got progressively worse as the song and the set went on. Nothing happened onstage. No dancers came out – nobody moved much at all really. Rakim just paced back and forth as Eric B. stood blandly behind the turntables.

It was like watching a live concert video with ****ty sound. Even worse, you had to stand on your seat and wait until the damn thing ended. Why was Rakim even there, I thought to myself, it might as well have been a cardboard cutout. (Speaking of cuts, don’t even get me started on Eric B.’s look-ma-I-got-my-first-turntable performance on the wheels that night: like fingernails on blackboard.) I knew in my heart and I said to myself, “This isn’t what a rap show should sound like.”

The author also suggests five ways to make live hip hop better:

1. Keep Everything Live
2. Don’t Blame the Sound Man
3. Organise
4. Give the People What They Want
5. Most of all, entertain!

It's well worth a read.

http://www.egotripland.com/gallery/why-most-live-hip-hop-performances-suck/rule-5-most-of-all-entertain/

Boom_Bap

kippy wrote: »

Meh,
Talking fast over a backing track with assistance is one thing, singing live while playing an instrument is another.

But thanks for the lesson.

EDIT: Sorry, that may sound a bit condescending - to add, I have no time for "live" acts like Guetta either.
But for me, the more talented live acts out, the ones I enjoy, tend to sing on their own merits, usually while playing an instrument which is a talent in itself. They'd generally give you value for your euros as well. But maybe I am just old school.

I completely agree singing while playing an instrument is a talent, I dont dismiss that at all. Some of the best gigs I have been to are the likes of Cold War Kids and (dont snicker) No Doubt.

But hip hop is a different disipline completely, where the performers are not the ones who actually make the music.

There are many different variations of a hip hop gig. The likes of which which Em put on. The fundementals of hip hop is an MC and a DJ.
Then there are people like Buck 65 that combine both, DJ and Rap at the same time, sometimes accompanied by a vocalist (not hypeman), here's a particularly unique performance where someone from the audience is invite up to perform a song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8goE3Xml_R8

Then there is the likes of Edan who will put on the best live performance accross any genre of music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STmg68Matxk

I should also add that there are hip hop performances that would also be accompanied by a full live band, in some cases an orchestra.

Jimmy Iovine

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I should also add that there are hip hop performances that would also be accompanied by a full live band, in some cases an orchestra.

I saw Messiah J & The Expert during Freshers Week in Maynooth back in 2009. I was one of about 25 people there. They played with a live band and were awesome.

Live bands make rap performances much better. You just have to watch Jimmy Fallon's show and see the performances of the artists who come on when they're paired with The Roots.

Boom_Bap

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

I saw Messiah J & The Expert during Freshers Week in Maynooth back in 2009. I was one of about 25 people there. They played with a live band are were awesome.

Live bands make rap performances much better. You just have to watch Jimmy Fallon's show and see the performances of the artists who come on when they're paired with The Roots.

MJEX used to have Frankie on Guitar and The Twiddler on Bass for the last year or so of thier live shows. It really improved thier performances and allowed for breakdowns and a bit of improvisation.

EDIT: In the early days of MJEX, there was a hypeman involved, but as John's breath control improved, he was able to carry most of the lyrics by himself. The Ex would jump in with the odd vocal if required.

Paully D

Lots of people who went to Reading and Leeds festivals seemed to have the same concerns about miming. The boss of said festivals wasn't too happy when he was asked about it. His response? ''**** off''. Video on the link below:

http://www.nme.com/nme-video/reading--leeds-festival-boss-eminem-miming-****-off/2628441275001

bennyl10

Paully D wrote: »

Lots of people who went to Reading and Leeds festivals seemed to have the same concerns about miming. The boss of said festivals wasn't too happy when he was asked about it. His response? ''**** off''. Video on the link below:

http://www.nme.com/nme-video/reading--leeds-festival-boss-eminem-miming-****-off/2628441275001

was a disgrace to have him headlining.. he's awful live.. there is no excuse. especially with biffy and green day headlining also, who are epic live.

LiamDnB

You wouldn't happen to know what MJEX are up to these days would ya? They still going?

mollser

A lot of green Day and all of biffy were shown on bbc. Not a glimpse of Eminem, possibly because he would be seriously exposed if his show was broadcast on tele. Our maybe it's an artistic thing. :Rolleyes