Men's knowledge of "Women's issues"

openup

Do you think that there is a lack of knowledge amongst men about so called "women's issues"?

It's something I've noticed a lot lately, especially since there has been an increased interest in abortion etc. Men seem to have surprisingly little knowledge about things like contraception, abortion, menstruation etc. Now, I'm not suggesting they need to know on what day of her cycle a woman ovulates but I find it strange that two straight men expressed surprise when I told them that no contraceptive is 100% effective. Another friend of mine posted the statistic that 54% of women who have abortions were on contraception, personally I found this shockingly low but he thought it was surprisingly high and said it changed his opinion on abortion.

Other surprising things I've heard was one guy who didn't realize pregnancy still holds health risks, one who thought women physically can't have sex while menstruating, more than one who thought having sex physically changes women and plenty who didn't realize women took the pill for reasons other than contraception.

These examples mainly come from college educated, straight men, all in and around there 20s, most of whom have/have had serious relationships with women. I would have thought that these things effect men (more specifically men interested in women) too. Has anybody else noticed this lack of knowledge? Do you think men need to know these things? Or do you all think I'm over-reacting?

Now I realize this a generalization and that there are men who perhaps know more than some women but for the purpose of this discussion I'm talking about men in the abstract.

juan.kerr

I would have been aware of all that except this:

openup wrote: »

the pill for reasons other than contraception.

My guesses would be weight loss or something to do with cervical cancer?

TeletextPear

juan.kerr wrote: »

I would have been aware of all that except this:



My guesses would be weight loss or something to do with cervical cancer?

Would be more along the lines of regulating heavy periods, helping to control acne, etc.

Lucyfur

juan.kerr wrote: »

I would have been aware of all that except this:



My guesses would be weight loss or something to do with cervical cancer?

More-so for women who have heavy periods, quite often for regulation of periods too...which I don't fully understand, as it's not classed as a ''period'' when on the pill...


My bf knows everything I know. He's learned a lot in the last few years

Hurricane Carter

You're overreacting.

The interest you speak of on men's behalf has little to do with 'women's issues' and more to do with sex and they know what they need to know for the time being.

Anything else, I'm sure they'll learn whilst in a relationship.

People learn in due course. I know what I need to know. Nothing more, nothing less.

NegativeCreep

I dont get this at all. All the men I know would know just as much about these matters as the women I know!

Morag

Such things are not taught for the most part in the majority of secondary schools in the country so unless their parents teach them or a partner teaches them or they set out to learn for themselves or they have sisters who teach them, it's possible for a bloke to remain pretty oblivious.

rainbowtrout

I teach agricultural science for leaving cert and regularly come across boys, when I am doing reproduction in animals, who think that the reproductive system and urinary system in females are one and the same thing and that females use their vaginas to urinate.

This has happened me on more than one occasion and it's not for lack of educating them at junior cert level. I think realistically as excited as many students are when they see the reproductive chapter in the book (many giggles and sniggers) that many of them switch off and don't absorb what they are being taught.

I first came across this problem when I was teaching how to synchronise heat cycles in sheep (it involves leaving a sponge soaked in hormones in the ewe's vagina, it's left in for 2 weeks, when it's taken out she comes into heat within 2 days, but I digress).

The comment I got when I explained this was 'how is a sheep supposed to piss for the 2 weeks the sponge is in?' A lot of lads believe (at that age anyway) that periods only last a few hours at most based on what they believe of how reproduction/urination work.

These leaving cert boys at the age of 17 believed the same of women, so I assume at this stage they know nothing when I am teaching them and throw a bit of human reproduction in when I am teaching animal reproduction hoping that it will prove to be useful to them and their girlfriends in the future.

I must add that it's not all boys, but there are a considerable number and many of them have an attitude that they don't need to know and are dismissive of it because it doesn't affect their lives on a day to day level.

Tasden

Well in all fairness I don't know much about men's issues either!
Don't see why men would need to know about ours unless that was an issue for you personally in which case you can do the teaching I suppose.

openup

I Am Kong! wrote: »

You're overreacting.

The interest you speak of on men's behalf has little to do with 'women's issues' and more to do with sex and they know what they need to know for the time being.

Anything else, I'm sure they'll learn whilst in a relationship.

People learn in due course. I know what I need to know. Nothing more, nothing less.

That's the thing though. I would consider this stuff that everyone needs to know or should have learned through their relationship. I would consider it imperative to understand contraception before having sex and not just think condom=no babies.
Or, speaking generally, the girls in my circle of friends are well verse of STDs whereas most of the boys I know say they've never been tested, brushing it off as "I use a condom most of the time" or "well, I never have any symptoms so..."

Perhaps my male friends are just a little slow! :pac:

Lyaiera

As a pure matter of knowledge of course everyone should know. This is something that effects pretty much everyone, whether it's happening to you or someone you know. I doubt there's a single man in the world who will go through his life without being close to a woman, even if they have no intentions of every having an intimate relationship with a woman. If someone I know is dealing with something on a routine basis I'd want to know. Simply because that's part of being a good person.

miamee

I think the level of séx education provided varies enormously from school to school so some people will be fairly well versed on the basics while others will be clueless leaving school. Coming from a suburb in Dublin where teen pregnancy was a big issue we were taught everything about séx and basics of contraception including how to put on condoms. Having spoken to friends who went to school in other counties, this was apparently not the norm by a long shot. Hopefully it has improved since then (early 90s).

Regarding men knowing the ins and outs of the pill etc. I would think that is something they will learn the most about through experience with a gf. They don't really *need* to know that it might be prescribed for hormone issues, heavy periods, acne etc. in my opinion.

ted1

I think its funny that your stereotyping 50% of the population, some guys don't have a clue, just like some girls don't have a clue.

openup

ted1 wrote: »

I think its funny that your stereotyping 50% of the population, some guys don't have a clue, just like some girls don't have a clue.

I'm not stereotyping anyone. I clearly stated in my first post that there are men who know more and women who know next to nothing. But generally speaking, at least in the circles I move in, most of the men seem "under-educated". When I say "men" I'm speaking in the generally.

frozenfrozen

It's not that these men you speak of haven't been educated, or that they giggled their way through biology, it's just that these "women's issues" are...women's issues..

Two sides to this.... men just don't complain that women don't know enough. Excuse my slight generalizations

frozenfrozen, I've edited the unnecessary from your post. Feel free to PM me if you have any issue with this.

confusticated

I don't think this:

openup wrote: »

two straight men expressed surprise when I told them that no contraceptive is 100% effective.

is a women's issue to be honest. I mean, I wouldn't be that bothered about men not knowing how bra sizes work for example, but stuff like how to prevent pregnancy? Knowing that if a girl has a vomiting bug the pill might not work? That's stuff that everyone should know for practical reasons!

openup

frozenfrozen wrote: »

It's not that these men you speak of haven't been educated, or that they giggled their way through biology, it's just that these "women's issues" are...women's issues..

Two sides to this.... men just don't complain that women don't know enough. Excuse my slight generalizations

See that's the thing. Whatever about periods, I certainly don't think contraception and pregnancy should be just considered women's issues. Obviously pregnancy and abortion don't effect men in the same way but they still do.

Also, while obviously I can't tell you what I don't know, I would feel I know enough about male genitalia and the problems that they come with...though I do have one female friend who didn't know what a foreskin was, which is pretty shocking. :pac:


Quote edited

NegativeCreep

openup wrote: »

I'm not stereotyping anyone. I clearly stated in my first post that there are men who know more and women who know next to nothing. But generally speaking, at least in the circles I move in, most of the men seem "under-educated". When I say "men" I'm speaking in the generally.

I don't think it's possible to talk about 50% of the population generally.

Eve_Dublin

More sex education is needed in Ireland for both males and females. Religion needs to be taken out of it.

frozenfrozen

confusticated wrote: »

I don't think this:


is a women's issue to be honest. I mean, I wouldn't be that bothered about men not knowing how bra sizes work for example, but stuff like how to prevent pregnancy? Knowing that if a girl has a vomiting bug the pill might not work? That's stuff that everyone should know for practical reasons!

I know a girl who until quite recently actually believed having sex in the sea was a 100% efficient form of contraception. There are always a few idiots knocking about...

I know hopefully everything I need to know. I'm not saying I don't need to know it or men in general don't need to know, but you can't blame someone if they just simply haven't been taught something yet. The pill is also commonly referred to as a contraceptive pill. Isn't it somewhat logical to assume that this magical contraceptive pill is a contraceptive all of the time?

Knowing how to do DIY is also practical, but that doesn't mean every woman man or child who can't put a table together should have a thread made about them stating that they can't put a table together, regardless of if they have been taught or not, they should just know since it's so practical.

It's this sort of thing that creates the whole "woman's problems" thing, that men are afraid to ask since they'll get their hand bitten off for not knowing.

Strawberry Fields

confusticated wrote: »

Knowing that if a girl has a vomiting bug the pill might not work? That's stuff that everyone should know for practical reasons!

While I agree this information is useful are you honestly expecting men to read the instructions that come with the pill? Surely in that situation the woman would have the cop to point this out having read them herself?

confusticated

I'm not saying someone is an idiot for not knowing that, obviously everyone has to learn this stuff sometime. (The girl with the sea story...dear god. I don't know how that happened.) I doubt I know everything (even just the practicalities, ignoring the science of how they work) of any contraceptives other than what I use tbh. But I've asked about them and found out enough to choose one.

And sure, knowing how to make a table is very practical. And obviously, table-making has to be taught too - I never said anyone should "just know" anything! However, not knowing how to make a table doesn't have consequences as serious not knowing how not to make a baby, or catching an STI. For their own health, men should ask this stuff. And if a woman "bites his hand off for not knowing" then tbh maybe sex shouldn't be happening between them.

sam34

frozenfrozen wrote: »

but you can't blame someone if they just simply haven't been taught something yet.

when it comes to sex, contraception and possible conception, shouldn't responsible adults, both male and female, seek out this information for themselves, instead of passively waiting to be taught?

if you're mature enough to be having sex you should be mature enough to educate yourself about the potential consequences and how to lessen/prevent them.

realgirl

godeas16 wrote: »

While I agree this information is useful are you honestly expecting men to read the instructions that come with the pill? Surely in that situation the woman would have the cop to point this out having read them herself?

I presume you're joking or trolling. Contraception is the responsibility of every individual who is having sex. I know many blokes tend to leave it up to the woman but their health and plans for their own lives are their responsibility and no-one else's.

LeeHoffmann

I teach agricultural science for leaving cert and regularly come across boys, when I am doing reproduction in animals, who think that the reproductive system and urinary system in females are one and the same thing and that females use their vaginas to urinate.

:eek:

I do have one female friend who didn't know what a foreskin was

:eek:

I know a girl who until quite recently actually believed having sex in the sea was a 100% efficient form of contraception

:eek:

Well I´m shocked. Who tells these people these things? I think parents and teachers have a duty to teach people about contraception, pregnancy and STD´s so that the silly myths are dispelled and so that everyone knows things like -no contraception is 100% effective, what forms of contraception exist, how they work, the risks they entail, the causes, symptoms, effects and treatment options for various STD´s, and the health risks pregnancy poses. They should also know a little about the laws on abortion and parental rights. That all seems like necessary info IMO and I think a lot of people (adults included) -both male and female - don´t have this info. Other things like alternative reasons for taking the pill are not essential info for men and I think most would learn it when they start having serious relationships.

Morag

godeas16 wrote: »

While I agree this information is useful are you honestly expecting men to read the instructions that come with the pill? Surely in that situation the woman would have the cop to point this out having read them herself?

I've given mine to past partners for them to read.

THall04

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I teach agricultural science for leaving cert and regularly come across boys, when I am doing reproduction in animals, who think that the reproductive system and urinary system in females are one and the same thing and that females use their vaginas to urinate.


I first came across this problem when I was teaching how to synchronise heat cycles in sheep (it involves leaving a sponge soaked in hormones in the ewe's vagina, it's left in for 2 weeks, when it's taken out she comes into heat within 2 days, but I digress).

The comment I got when I explained this was 'how is a sheep supposed to piss for the 2 weeks the sponge is in?' A lot of lads believe (at that age anyway) that periods only last a few hours at most based on what they believe of how reproduction/urination work.
.

Problem here is the definition of the word "Vagina".
For a lot of boys this word describes the entirety of a lady's "front bottom" area ,not just one component of the reproductive system.
Or to put it another way.....Vagina=Vulva.....a term these lads probably never heard of.

Wibbs

sam34 wrote: »

when it comes to sex, contraception and possible conception, shouldn't responsible adults, both male and female, seek out this information for themselves, instead of passively waiting to be taught?

if you're mature enough to be having sex you should be mature enough to educate yourself about the potential consequences and how to lessen/prevent them.

Oh agreed 110% S, but sadly "responsible" and "adult" don't always go together and at a rate that can be scary. Very generally speaking I've found the ladies are a little more up to speed, then again they have more to lose by not knowing all things considered, plus women's reproductive systems are also much more likely to be seen by medical types. Men could go through their entire life and never have their wobbly bits examined. That said not knowing what a foreskin is etc isn't that rare.

I recall a thread on Boards ages ago in a forum I can't recall, where guys were talking about their penises and it was quite the eye opener as far as ignorance of the subject and the workings of same were concerned. Especially given how focused we are on ours at an early age and how external and visible they are. Knowledge of women's "bits" go below that for many.

It's not such a gender thing I reckon. Both men and women can be scarily ignorant of their own reproductive systems , never mind the "other sides".

Wibbs

THall04 wrote: »

Problem here is the definition of the word "Vagina".
For a lot of boys this word describes the entirety of a lady's "front bottom" area ,not just one component of the reproductive system.
Or to put it another way.....Vagina=Vulva.....a term these lads probably never heard of.

+1., Never mind labia majora/minora, clitoris and clitoral hood, mons pubis etc, Hell the slang words are more anatomically correct than "vagina" for the area.

Sarn

Speaking from my own experience, the reproductive systems weren't covered in school so I can understand how many people are relatively clueless. It doesn't take much to pick up the basics though.

With regard to the contraceptive pill, again I can understand how people would just pick up the fundamentals so as to ensure that it is used effectively. Beyond that I wouldn't expect the average person to know all of the details of another person's medication. Ultimately it is the person who takes the medicine that needs to ensure that it is taken correctly. If they are unsure then they should seek guidance from their pharmacist or doctor.

I would agree that everyone should have a certain level of basic (correct) information. Some people just have no interest until it's too late.

I find it amazing that antibiotics and illness as an issue with the contraceptive pill wouldn't be known to anyone who has ever had a TV. Then again I, a male, told a surprised and worried 21 year old girl about it which surprised and worried me.

Neewbie_noob

openup wrote: »

Do you think that there is a lack of knowledge amongst men about so called "women's issues"?

It's something I've noticed a lot lately, especially since there has been an increased interest in abortion etc. Men seem to have surprisingly little knowledge about things like contraception, abortion, menstruation etc. Now, I'm not suggesting they need to know on what day of her cycle a woman ovulates but I find it strange that two straight men expressed surprise when I told them that no contraceptive is 100% effective. Another friend of mine posted the statistic that 54% of women who have abortions were on contraception, personally I found this shockingly low but he thought it was surprisingly high and said it changed his opinion on abortion.

Other surprising things I've heard was one guy who didn't realize pregnancy still holds health risks, one who thought women physically can't have sex while menstruating, more than one who thought having sex physically changes women and plenty who didn't realize women took the pill for reasons other than contraception.

These examples mainly come from college educated, straight men, all in and around there 20s, most of whom have/have had serious relationships with women. I would have thought that these things effect men (more specifically men interested in women) too. Has anybody else noticed this lack of knowledge? Do you think men need to know these things? Or do you all think I'm over-reacting?

Now I realize this a generalization and that there are men who perhaps know more than some women but for the purpose of this discussion I'm talking about men in the abstract.

I am a straight man 21, college educated (Science) and NEVER thought any of the crap here, either the vast majority of men are idiots or you have cherry picked from a small sector of society.

spurious

The vast majority of men are not idiots of course, but there are a frightening number of both men and women who have very poor understanding of how their own bits work, let alone how those of the opposite gender work.

Have a read of the circumcision thread in TGC for men waiting years to go to a doctor and get something relatively routine done. It's scary and equally matched by a proportion of women who do not join the dots or make connections regarding their own behaviour/lifestyle and fertility.

revz

I'm a 21 year old male, and until I started going out with my girlfriend just over a year ago I didn't know what the pill actually did.
I knew it was "contraception". But with every "think contraception" ad and the likes that I can think back on always mentioning condoms I grew up thinking that was the only way to avoid pregnancy. Not that this was really that bad of a mistake, probably for the best that I'd make sure to wear a condom every time no matter what! (STIs and all that). I thought it was just like some kind of extra safety net.
My girlfriend was a bit miffed though when she decided to go on the pill and I still insisted on wearing condoms. She then went off the pill.
I suppose up until then I never had a girl go through what it actually did (no long-term girlfriends before this).
Luckily enough at around the same time, I did lectures on the pill in college and only then did it click with me, especially when seeing that use of the pill alone is statistically more effective than the use of condoms alone!
After explaining all this to her she then went back on the pill
I'm not alone on this though, definitely two of the guys in my group of friends have similar thought to what I had and insist on still using a condom even though their girlfriends are on the pill. One of them literally took 5 minutes of convincing that you don't need to "pull out" when she's on the pill. Even still, last time we were speaking about this he still insists on using a condom.
I suppose that's their choice, and if they want to take the extra precaution even though the pill is 99+% effective (with perfect use) then go for it. They're the ones missing out though

(I'm speaking about this in relationships where you know your other half and their sexual health etc.)

MrTsSnickers

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

Well I´m shocked. Who tells these people these things? I think parents and teachers have a duty to teach people about contraception, pregnancy and STD´s so that the silly myths are dispelled and so that everyone knows things like -no contraception is 100% effective, what forms of contraception exist, how they work, the risks they entail, the causes, symptoms, effects and treatment options for various STD´s, and the health risks pregnancy poses. They should also know a little about the laws on abortion and parental rights. That all seems like necessary info IMO and I think a lot of people (adults included) -both male and female - don´t have this info. Other things like alternative reasons for taking the pill are not essential info for men and I think most would learn it when they start having serious relationships.

I've worked in the area of sexual health for a while now, mainly with secondary school/youthreach and the like. I think that while many parents try to explain sex to their kids (and some do a magnificent job, don't get me wrong), often times the kids are mortified and just try to get through the conversation by smiling and nodding! Also, kids don't want to ask teachers that they see every day the awkward, oddball, slightly weird questions that they might have. I genuinely think that a person coming into the school teaching a series of seminars works better than teachers doing it. They can ask questions anonymously in our course (as we do it in 3 seminars with a break in between).

As an aside, while the students know a lot, the evaluations that we do at the end of the course always say that they want to know more about how to function in a relationship and how to actually negotiate sex. The majority want to be safe but are not entirely sure how to bring the issue of protection up, also, many of the girl see carrying condoms/being on the pill primarily for contraceptive reasons/asking about their partners sexual history to be slutty in a sense and are extremely nervous about doing any of those things.

Personally, I think the best thing to do is have a home that's open to conversation about sex, parents asking questions and following their children's cues. Like I said kids know a lot but they also get a lot of info from parents from organic conversation. I know one parent whose child was around the 16 mark and male. She bought condoms, left them in the bathroom cabinet and just said to her son that she'd prefer if he waited to have sex but that if he was to do it safely. If he wanted to take the condoms into his room, that was fine, but she would replace them in the cabinet. He took some, she asked if he was having sex, he said no, he was figuring out how to use them on his own. end of conversation.

Anyway, slightly off topic but i think that while some don't know these things many more do but are loathe to discuss it with any sort of confidence because it's seen as oddball or deviant.

eviltwin

My husband grew up in an all male household so when we moved in he was totally clueless about anything to do with womens health. He had been given "the talk" but like a lot of men probably thought it wasn't relevant to him and so didn't listen. I had to educate him

He didn't even know how long a cycle was or when ovulation happens :eek: Even now he would be a bit unsure about anything to do with pregnancy, womens cancers etc

I suppose I don't think about men's health that much myself so its probably something I am as guilty of too.

A Primal Nut

Another thing is that women never talk about this kind of stuff; periods, etc when there is a man around, even my girlfriends have been reluctant to talk about in the past. So because we never hear about it in our day to day lives, it took me a long time to understand everything. Even now there are some things I don't understand.:P

miamee

Conversely some men feel that any mention of periods or time of the month is 'TMI'. I think it's probably embarrassment rather than an actual lack of interest.

the_syco

openup wrote: »

one who thought women physically can't have sex while menstruating

<snip>

most of whom have/have had serious relationships with women

I'd wonder who told them these things? It may be that the woman he was with couldn't for whatever reason have sex at that time, and the man just took it as gospel that it applied to all women.

frozenfrozen wrote: »

It's this sort of thing that creates the whole "woman's problems" thing, that men are afraid to ask since they'll get their hand bitten off for not knowing.

As well as not asking, some immature males view you not knowing something as you not having enough "experience", and thus don't always ask amongst themselves. Or worse; disinformation is gotten when a question is asked.

sam34 wrote: »

when it comes to sex, contraception and possible conception, shouldn't responsible adults, both male and female, seek out this information for themselves, instead of passively waiting to be taught?

How do they seek the information if they don't know the information exists?

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

Who tells these people these things?

As the saying goes; knowledge is power. But if you don't know something, and want to remain in power, bulsh|t. Unfortunately some people will not question the bullsh|t, take it as gospel, and tell others it.

I remember one such myth was you can't get pregnant if you have sex whilst standing up, as the sperm won't travel up, or some such nonsense.

sam34

the_syco wrote: »

How do they seek the information if they don't know the information exists?.

Ah come on. Surely people old enough to have sex know that pregnancy is a potential outcome. Surely its not asking too much that they think to themselves "how do i avoid getting pregnant/getting someone pregnant?" and go find out. Most people now have fairly easy access to the Internet, where information can be sourced. Even as a very sheltered teenager back before the Internet was readily available,and with a very Catholic mother who provided no information, I knew loads about contraception, std's etc through surreptitious purchasing of women's magazines. I did it cos I wanted to know and knew I needed to know.

It's time people took responsibility for themselves instead of expecting to be spoonfed everything.

sam34

sam34 wrote: »

Ah come on. Surely people old enough to have sex know that pregnancy is a potential outcome. Surely its not asking too much that they think to themselves "how do i avoid getting pregnant/getting someone pregnant?" and go find out. Most people now have fairly easy access to the Internet, where information can be sourced. Even as a very sheltered teenager back before the Internet was readily available,and with a very Catholic mother who provided no information, I knew loads about contraception, std's etc through surreptitious purchasing of women's magazines. I did it cos I wanted to know and knew I needed to know.

It's time people took responsibility for themselves instead of expecting to be spoonfed everything.

Fully agree with you. I never had "the talk" with my parents and had as little sex-education in school as anyone else but it didn't take much to figure things out. I'd copped the basics from TV etc. Not necessarily how the pill works but some pitfalls, **** like that. One doesn't even need in-depth knowledge on a lot of things to put them into practice either.

The Cool

I think largely, schools don't make sure that all students get their education, and they should - not just in science class where you spend a chapter looking at diagrams of anatomy, but real sex ed, where you are educated about putting it in practice. As someone else said, not just learning how to make a baby, but how NOT to make a baby, and how to stay healthy, both physically and mentally.
In my secondary school for example, girls had a talk in first and third year about periods, womens issues, all that stuff. Boys had nothing. For junior cert you'd choose between Science and Home Economics and if a boy did H.E. then he just didn't get the education at all. I remember one boy who was in my class but a full year older than me who did H.E. for junior cert, and was never given any sex ed at home so got no sex ed until science class in Transition Year at the age of 16, at which point he actually could not believe that this was fact. It wasn't a catholic school either.
My OH is one of those poorly educated blokes - I think not having older sisters and stuff plays a big part too. His little sister is currently going through puberty and he hasn't a clue what's going on! We've been living together 6 months and he's learned a lot in that time - ie what the pill actually does, how not only menstruating but also ovulating changes your body, that kind of stuff. I find overall his attitude about contraception, etc quite immature just because he hasn't learned as much about it as I have.
I really think sex education needs to be properly taught, with guidelines given to teachers and schools on how to do it, and do it properly.

the_syco

sam34 wrote: »

Surely people old enough to have sex know that pregnancy is a potential outcome. Surely its not asking too much that they think to themselves "how do i avoid getting pregnant/getting someone pregnant?" and go find out.

I may have phrased that wrongly, but if the sex ed in their school is sh|te, they'll have only what they learnt off their peers, be that info true or not is a different matter altogether!

The sex ed that was given in my school (early to mid 90's) was fairly basic, but informative. It dispelled a lot of the stupid myths (some of which were really daft), and told us where we could get more info.

It's less of a case of finding out how to not get a woman pregnant, but more of a case of finding out how not to get a woman pregnant from a proper source.

Perhaps i should have phrased
"How do they seek the information if they don't know the information exists?."
as
"Why would they seek the information out if they thought they already had the information?"
instead.

cloud493

I didn't get any sex ed at all :P but I'd say I knew the basics, periods, etc. I didn't know the nitty gritty though, vaginal discharge, PMS, different stages etc, until it occurred to me that the situation will be in 4 to 5 I will need to know it.

Feathers

openup wrote: »

I'm not stereotyping anyone. I clearly stated in my first post that there are men who know more and women who know next to nothing. But generally speaking, at least in the circles I move in, most of the men seem "under-educated". When I say "men" I'm speaking in the generally.

You do realise "speaking generally" is the definition of stereotyping? Fine to do it if you like, I've no problem with people stereotyping (so long as they don't stick to prejudices afterwards).

Might be interesting to have a poll — (If there are enough men lurking on the LL to make it worthwhile ) I'm a man/woman and I knew some/all/none of the above, delete as required.

revz wrote: »

Even still, last time we were speaking about this he still insists on using a condom.
I suppose that's their choice, and if they want to take the extra precaution even though the pill is 99+% effective (with perfect use) then go for it. They're the ones missing out though

I'm not saying that your friend is right or wrong for his caution, but just as a general observation on these figures — a lot of people seem to take 99% as a colloquial term for 'almost impossible not to happen', whereas 99% in this case is used in the literal, stastistical sense: of 100 women having sex on the pill, 1 of them will still get pregnant in a year.

In my own head this still seems like a high figure — not because I don't know the effectiveness of the pill, but because of the way that figure is treated in conversations. If 1M women in Ireland were having sex on a regular basis (conservation figure, or too high?), and they all used the pill as their contraception, on average 10,000 of them would get pregnant in the next year (assuming that they're all using it correctly to begin with, which on its own is a big assumption).

Just something to keep in mind when weighing options around contraception.

tomboylady

I agree that sex education in schools is bad. We had absolutely none in our school. I think we had a talk about periods and what to expect around the time I was in 5th year but zero information otherwise.

Saying that, I took it upon myself to educate myself, as, I'm sure, plenty of other females did too. It does baffle me though how innocent (that's not the correct word... naive maybe?) some people can be when it comes to things like contraception, and the old wives tales. I knew someone who was in her early 40s and became pregnant. She couldn't understand how it happened considering she "took the pill almost every day". When I mentioned about taking it at the same time every day she honestly thought I was ripping the piss.

mood

juan.kerr wrote: »

I would have been aware of all that except this:



My guesses would be weight loss or something to do with cervical cancer?

No. For menstruation problems such as heavy/painful periods, acne.

opinion guy

revz wrote: »

I suppose that's their choice, and if they want to take the extra precaution even though the pill is 99+% effective (with perfect use) then go for it. They're the ones missing out though

(I'm speaking about this in relationships where you know your other half and their sexual health etc.)

The bit I highlighted is the most important thing you said. I have to say here, as a male, when it comes to the pill you are relying on the female to be educated enough to know what perfect use is - i.e. do they know when they are sick or on certain meds etc it doens't work ? (ok I know this thread is about male ignorance - but trust me - there is female ignorance too on this stuff).


Also, and I invite everyone to look at this, this table includes statistics for 'perfect use' and 'typical use'. I personally think the typical use statistics are the ones that should be quoted as, well, you know, they are typical:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods#Comparison_table


Look in particular at the failure rates for the male condom and the OCP - sobering statistics. Also note for no contraception there is an 85% 'failure rate' i.e. pregnancy - THIS is what you want to comparing against - not 100%

mood

Surely teenagers and even some not so sure adults are not 100% dependent on parents and schools for sex education! I learned very little from both but between having a TV, magazines, newspapers, brothers and sisters and friends I picked up a little more info which prompted me to read more when the opportunity arose. Even though I grew up with no internet I knew more than most examples here as a teenager. People need to learn for themselves and read.

Oh, maybe someone could post a link to a good, reliable source of information about such issues and Boards could have it as a Notice? I could really help some people.

mood

opinion guy wrote: »

The bit I highlighted is the most important thing you said. I have to say here, as a male, when it comes to the pill you are relying on the female to be educated enough to know what perfect use is - i.e. do they know when they are sick or on certain meds etc (ok I know this thread is about male ignorance - but trust me - there is female ignorance too on this stuff).


Also, and I invite everyone to look at this, this table includes statistics for 'perfect use' and 'typical use'. I personally think the typical use statistics are the ones that should be quoted as, well, you know, they are typical:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods#Comparison_table


Look in particular at the failure rates for the male condom and the OCP - sobering statistics.

Doctors and chemists also need to inform patients of the possible risks of taking some meds with the pill. Everyone should read the info before taking meds but not everyone does.

revz

opinion guy wrote: »

The bit I highlighted is the most important thing you said. I have to say here, as a male, when it comes to the pill you are relying on the female to be educated enough to know what perfect use is - i.e. do they know when they are sick or on certain meds etc it doens't work ? (ok I know this thread is about male ignorance - but trust me - there is female ignorance too on this stuff).


Also, and I invite everyone to look at this, this table includes statistics for 'perfect use' and 'typical use'. I personally think the typical use statistics are the ones that should be quoted as, well, you know, they are typical:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods#Comparison_table


Look in particular at the failure rates for the male condom and the OCP - sobering statistics. Also note for no contraception there is an 85% 'failure rate' i.e. pregnancy - THIS is what you want to comparing against - not 100%

I agree, and this is where both partners knowledge of it comes in to play.
My girlfriend uses an app on her phone to remind her, alerts her at midday everyday and won't stop on the hour til she takes it and clicks "I have taken my pill today".
Like I said I did lectures on it, I'm doing pharmacy, so I know all about the interaction of medicines and the effect vomiting/diarrhoea can have. (Not saying I know everything, just I'd hope I'm a bit more knowledgeable on the subject than someone who isn't studying what I am)
There are steps that can be taken (and information from doctors/pharmacists) that can improve the compliance and get it closer to the "perfect use".

When you say as a male you're depending on the female; that's true, and I guess it's important that they demonstrate they have the knowledge so you can trust them in taking it.
If you don't have that knowledge in the first place to confirm that they know how to take it properly, you can't be fully sure either.
It's a two-way system.

At the end of all that, I can see why this thread was made, and would definitely feel sex ed. could be improved on these issues.

The chart shows us though, if you want to really avoid pregnancy, abstinence is the way to go, and that's up to you to make that choice, or go for the contraceptive measure you trust and take the 0.3-8% chance