building regs

daver123

i am going to ask a straight question on a forum where discussion is encouraged - where were all these laws / regs / compliance over the last 20 years when there were so many bad dwellings built?

Poor Uncle Tom

Planning Act in 1963, Building Control Act in 1990, so they are in place for over 20 years.

While there is a percentage of poor quality builds in the country there is a much larger percentage of good quality builds which are in compliance with the Building Regulations.

daver123

i just checked my compliance cert there and it refers to 1990 act, i built 3 year ago

muffler

daver123 wrote: »

i just checked my compliance cert there and it refers to 1990 act, i built 3 year ago

And I issued a similar type of cert last week and signed it under the Statutory Declarations Act 1938 so whats your point?

Poor Uncle Tom

daver123 wrote: »

i just checked my compliance cert there and it refers to 1990 act, i built 3 year ago

Your point?

The Building Regulations are updated at different times, the latest Part L is 2011 as previously mentioned, but all of the Building Regulations together are enforced under the Building Control Act 1990, that doesn't mean the building is constructed to 1990 standards.

daver123

muffler wrote: »

And I issued a similar type of cert last week and signed it under the Statutory Declarations Act 1938 so whats your point?

i couldnt care less what u signed off on my point is i think the 2011 build regs are just there for reading purposes they have absolutely no influence on planning permission as each local authority has there own guidelines

Poor Uncle Tom

daver123 wrote: »

i couldnt care less what u signed off on

That's what I gave you the infraction for, you can have a debate and remain civil.

daver123 wrote: »

my point is i think the 2011 build regs are just there for reading purposes they have absolutely no influence on planning permission as each local authority has there own guidelines

Here you are mixing up planning permission (Planning & Development Act 2000) and the Building Regulations (Building Control Act 1990).

beyondpassive

daver123 wrote: »

i couldnt care less what u signed off on my point is i think the 2011 build regs are just there for reading purposes they have absolutely no influence on planning permission as each local authority has there own guidelines

Daver, great discussion but planning and regs are completely separate processes. Planning control is only concerned with the shape, siting and use of the building and approval is required prior to the build. Building control starts with your commencement notice and finishes with your on completion air test and BER. Although some planning departments ask for a provisional BER at planning application stage and some building control dept's ask for provisional BER at commencement notice application stage, it's not compulsory everywhere. But as the experts here have spelt out numerous times, an opinion on compliance with regs is an essential part of your title deeds

daver123

beyondpassive wrote: »

Daver, great discussion but planning and regs are completely separate processes. Planning control is only concerned with the shape, siting and use of the building and approval is required prior to the build. Building control starts with your commencement notice and finishes with your on completion air test and BER. Although some planning departments ask for a provisional BER at planning application stage and some building control dept's ask for provisional BER at commencement notice application stage, it's not compulsory everywhere. But as the experts here have spelt out numerous times, an opinion on compliance with regs is an essential part of your title deeds

beyondpassive - lets start with building control ( where is the control ) i built my house and nobody inspected or checked anything i live in fingal, why are people advising the OP that u need to comply with building regs, u need to comply with planning permission / conditions

WhatNowForUs?

daver123 wrote: »

beyondpassive - lets start with building control ( where is the control ) i built my house and nobody inspected or checked anything i live in fingal, why are people advising the OP that u need to comply with building regs, u need to comply with planning permission / conditions

I think people are advising the OP that they need to comply with building regulations otherwise you may get another Priory Hall situation.

DOCARCH

daver123 wrote: »

beyondpassive - lets start with building control ( where is the control ) i built my house and nobody inspected or checked anything i live in fingal, why are people advising the OP that u need to comply with building regs, u need to comply with planning permission / conditions

Did you submit a Commencement Notice and/or do you no what that is?

daver123

DOCARCH wrote: »

Did you submit a Commencement Notice and/or do you no what that is?

of course i submitted a commencement notice and i paid all my fees

daver123

my house is fully compliant with the drawings that were submitted with the planning application

muffler

daver123 wrote: »

my house is fully compliant with the drawings that were submitted with the planning application

2 questions:

1. How do you know your house is "fully compliant" with the drawings and/or planning permission?

2. How do you know if your house is compliant with the Building Regulations?

beyondpassive

daver123 wrote: »

beyondpassive - lets start with building control ( where is the control ) i built my house and nobody inspected or checked anything i live in fingal, why are people advising the OP that u need to comply with building regs, u need to comply with planning permission / conditions

It's really a system of self regulation, where your Architect and engineer take on some functions of the inspections. This has been watered down over the years as the risk taken on by the inspectors became uninsurable. Building control should inspect 15% of buildings but they rarely get over about 4%.

Building Control visiting the site 4 times during a build as they do on about 25 % of sites in the UK can be a serious impediment to progress on site and isn't a perfect scenario by any means.

I like your logic but feel its a bit like, breaking every red light where there's not a policeman at the intersection.

daver123

muffler wrote: »

2 questions:

1. How do you know your house is "fully compliant" with the drawings and/or planning permission?

2. How do you know if your house is compliant with the Building Regulations?

A fully qualified architect supervised my build and signed off at 5 stages that is why the house is compliant with the drawings / spec and the conditions of fingal co co planning dept, the compliance cert for the house refers to the 1990 building act which i posted previously.

sinnerboy

Your Architect certified compliance with Building Regulations which as so many others have been saying - is a legal requirement.

If he did not you would not be in your house now.

With respect your posts up to now are informed by you not understanding this.

sinnerboy

No one person or group of persons has a monopoly on knowledge skill or experience and so disagreements can serve a very useful purpose here.

But take heed now - if you continue to post including expressions of contempt or disrespect to any other poster here you will be banned.

andy199

so the TGD have to be followed am i right in sayin that TGD are the building regs? sorry about the question just a bit confused thanks

DOCARCH

andy199 wrote: »

so the TGD have to be followed am i right in sayin that TGD are the building regs? sorry about the question just a bit confused thanks

The TGD are not themselves the Building Regultions but are technical guidance as how you might comply with the Building Regultions - therefore if you do follow the TGD then yes, you should end up complying with the Building Regultions.

sydthebeat

andy199 wrote: »

so the TGD have to be followed am i right in sayin that TGD are the building regs? sorry about the question just a bit confused thanks

think of it like this...

our constitution states general rights people are entitled to, and legislation and court cases develop these general rights into specifics.

similarly the "building regulations" are general statements regarding buildings and the TGD's (Technical Guidance Documents) are expanded specific ways of meeting these regulations. They are consider "prima facie" ways to comply with the regulations.

It is possible to meet building regulations by means outside of the TGDs, but it is up to the client to be able to prove scientifically that the alternative means constitutes full, or better, compliance.


as a specific example, refer to this document
The bit shaded on Page 5 is the actual building regulation
Its short isnt it, and is generalised.

However, all the rest of the document deals with the specific means to comply with the regulation.thats the intricit, specific and onerous part.

oh, and to what daver123 has been posting up to this....
its completely ignorant uninformed tripe, and also illegal.
like any law, just because the threat of enforcement is low, that doesnt make the law not exist.
The building regulations are actually a law designed to protect the owner and occupiers of a building.
You may be putting your life ion the line by not heeding them.. and that is NOT an overstatement.

prewtna

hilarious thread.

amazing how some people can convince themselves (and others who wouldn't know better) they are correct when in fact its clear they are not necessarily the best people to give advice.

Regs = Law.

TGDs = guidance on how you might achieve compliance with the Regs

Simple.

muffler

prewtna wrote: »

hilarious thread.

Can you explain how you find the thread hilarious?

prewtna wrote: »

amazing how some people can convince themselves (and others who wouldn't know better) they are correct when in fact its clear they are not necessarily the best people to give advice.

Who is that directed at? (mod hat on)


To ensure a level playing field here I am an architectural technician and you are......?

prewtna

muffler wrote: »

Can you explain how you find the thread hilarious?


Who is that directed at? (mod hat on)


To ensure a level playing field here I am an architectural technician and you are......?

ah, if you read the thread from the start through to the end, it is hilarious.

a person seeks advice when starting the thread, then gets all sorts of incorrect advice from a particular poster who is then corrected (rightly) by others. said poster then goes completely quiet!

in hindsight said poster may have been taking the mick re: telling people you don't need to comply with anything other than your planning permission.

such advise should not be given in any way on any forum by anyone at any time, even though we should all know to take any advice we get on an internet forum with 'a pinch of salt'.

I play on the same field as yourself - I am an architect.

muffler

prewtna wrote: »

ah, if you read the thread from the start through to the end, it is hilarious.

a person seeks advice when starting the thread, then gets all sorts of incorrect advice from a particular poster who is then corrected (rightly) by others. said poster then goes completely quiet!

in hindsight said poster may have been taking the mick re: telling people you don't need to comply with anything other than your planning permission.

such advise should not be given in any way on any forum by anyone at any time, even though we should all know to take any advice we get on an internet forum with 'a pinch of salt'.

I play on the same field as yourself - I am an architect.

Thats fair enough, thanks.

A word or two of advice though. Your previous post was very much of a "swipe" aimed at God knows who. Its better to clarify who or which posts in particular you are referring to in order to avoid any confusion. Always attack the post and not the poster is also the norm on forums.

Good to have you on board as every forum needs people to rebut the bad advice that is posted.

BryanF

daver123 wrote: »

i built a house so i am telling u now all as u need to comply with is planning conditions that is all the is enforced in this country

Wait for the day you or your loved ones need to sell it or borrow against it

lownhard

Very interesting thread.
Has opened my eyes in relation to the distinction between tgd's and regs.

Having an issue in relation to the the number of houses that can connect to a 100mm foul pipe. Tgd part H http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,24906,en.pdf says max 2, but if one can scientifically prove that the pipe, at its current fall, has the capacity for far more, could one still comply with regs if you put 3 or four dwellings on the 100mm pipe, even though you are going against the advice of the tgd?

muffler

lownhard wrote: »

Very interesting thread.
Has opened my eyes in relation to the distinction between tgd's and regs.

Having an issue in relation to the the number of houses that can connect to a 100mm foul pipe. Tgd part H http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,24906,en.pdf says max 2, but if one can scientifically prove that the pipe, at its current fall, has the capacity for far more, could one still comply with regs if you put 3 or four dwellings on the 100mm pipe, even though you are going against the advice of the tgd?

As you seen the TGD's are for guidance and demonstrate a method/criteria/detail of complying with the regs but the Act itself states that alternative methods etc are acceptable but proof of compliance will need to be made available.

daver123

BryanF wrote: »

Wait for the day you or your loved ones need to sell it or borrow against it

I will have no problem selling the house i have certs of compliance with 1994 building regs supplied by a fully qualified architect

Poor Uncle Tom

daver123 wrote: »

......a fully qualified architect

As opposed to what?
a fully qualified Architectural Technician/Technologist, a fully qualified Engineer?