"Man Up" campaign & the continued media erosion of men.

iptba

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Hmm seems to be a debate going on in the NUIG spotted page.

Sorry, what's that? I went over to the forum on boards.ie and can't see it. Googling "NUIG spotted" didn't help.

Aside: Adding in Safe Ireland, did show me this page from last year:

http://www.nuigalway.ie/faculties_departments/womens_studies/news_and_events/news_20111118_16days.html

16 DAYS OF ACTIVISM TO END VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

The Global Women's Studies Programme in the School of Political Science and Sociology at NUI Galway is hosting a series of events to mark the 16 Days of Activism to end Violence against Women, linking International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women (Nov. 25th) to International Human Rights Day (Dec. 10th).
etc.

Piliger

Hi ... As an update, I received a reply from my letters to Pobal and The Wheel and COSC this week.

Pobal makes a short and simple denial - that they have not funded Safe Ireland since 2008. They also say they are funding some Men's groups, such as Men's Sheds. They offer no comment or criticism of the Safe Ireland campaign despite my letter. Clearly they have no interest in the subject or in any criticism of the activity of Safe Ireland.

The Wheel says that they funded various training programs for staff of Safe Ireland. They have no involvement or engagement with any Men's Groups whatsoever, judging by their letter and have even less interest. A typically hand-washing reply.

Cosc expressed an interest in any reply I get rom Safe Ireland they say COSC "does not exercise close editorial control" on the projects they fund, as they fund approx 59 projects. "Your letter will be taken into account in the evaluation of the 2012 scheme". They also say they are aware that men as well as women suffer domestic and sexual violence. and they have set up a Steering Committee o Violence against Men in late 2011. They say they have funded Amen over the years.

I await replies to my other letter including the one to Safe Ireland.

Come on guys .... letters ? Send some ? get a reply ? I posted mine above so you can use it as a guide.

iptba

Piliger wrote: »

The Wheel says that they funded various training programs for staff of Safe Ireland. They have no involvement or engagement with any Men's Groups whatsoever, judging by their letter and have even less interest. A typically hand-washing reply.

My guess is that the Wheel aren't that responsible. It's an umbrella organisation covering hundreds of charitable and voluntary organisations which have no real connection. I'm guessing they got some sort of funding to offer courses to charitable and voluntary organisations and just took who came forward. However, I haven't checked the details.

Pobal: On their home page, it says:

Pobal’s mission is to promote social inclusion, reconciliation and equality through integrated social and economic development within communities

I'm not sure this campaign would qualify.

Zulu

I only got two replies, both simply stating that they don't control the media campaigns of safe Ireland and that the complaint is misdirected. Both appeared to have glossed over the fact that they are the two of safe Ireland biggest funders.
I've yet to get a response from the utterly useless and biased advertising complaints authority.

I'm rushing on my mobile now but when I get a chance later I'll post the responses verbatim here.

Did anyone else manage to do anything else about it?

Piliger

iptba wrote: »

My guess is that the Wheel aren't that responsible. It's an umbrella organisation covering hundreds of charitable and voluntary organisations which have no real connection. I'm guessing they got some sort of funding to offer courses to charitable and voluntary organisations and just took who came forward. However, I haven't checked the details.

Well they are listed on the Safe Ireland site as having funded them in 2010 to the amount of 40k. So they should be showing more interest.

Pobal: On their home page, it says: (quote snipped)

I'm not sure this campaign would qualify.[/QUOTE]

Very good point. I will follow that line.

iptba

I presume this came about because of a lot of focus of domestic violence against women, and little focus on domestic violence against men.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/193470/pati-patni-ten-thousand.html

Pati, Patni and ten thousand

HYDERABAD, September 24, DHNS:

Alcoholic men in Andhra Pradesh who batter their wives may soon find tables turned on them.

If a proposal of State Irrigation Minister T G Venkatesh becomes operational, women who beat their abusive husbands will get a reward from the government.

Venkatesh, an industrialist, is proactive against alcoho­lism. He offers incentives for employees in his industrial units and sacks those who drink.

“Beat your drunken husband if he touches you. The government will pay you a
Rs 1,000 reward. The more you beat him the better as you can get up to Rs 10, 000,” he told a gathering of women, Mahila Sadassu, a government programme in Kurnool.

The minister urged women to get their drunken, abusive husbands on to the streets and beat them in full view of the public so that it encourages other women, whose men return home after squandering their day’s earnings in toddy shops.

“Once you do this and you get rewarded, your husband will stop harassing you,” Venkatesh told the women of Kurnool.

However, officers in the child and women welfare department say that the novel idea will be difficult to implement.

“First, how to ascertain whether a woman is really beaten by husband or that she has beaten her abusive husband. What can we do if the couple hatch a plan and cheat the government,” one of them said.

However, the minister is very enthusiastic about the idea. “We can call this as Pati, Patni and Rs 10,000 scheme,” he said.

Even if one actually believed it was fair, are there no alcoholic women who engage in domestic abuse against their male partners?

py2006

In fairness, alcoholic husbands who waste family money and abuse their wives don't deserve that much sympathy.

However, the proposal is beyond lunacy.

GalwayGuy2

The above study seems to have the shaming that goes on in a lot of American movies as it's premise. EG: Man beaten by women, not really a man.

But anyway, has anybody hear heard about Christina Hoff Sommers? I don't agree with everything that she says, but she does make a difference between different types of feminism.

iptba

py2006 wrote: »

In fairness, alcoholic husbands who waste family money and abuse their wives don't deserve that much sympathy.

However, the proposal is beyond lunacy.

That may be so. However, lots of spouses will actually think their other spouse wastes money. So combine that with the knowledge that plenty of men are abused by their spouse or partner, and there's then plenty of women out there who would fit similar criteria, depending how strictly it is defined. It is an interesting issue to reflect on, but it certainly is not only one direction.

iptba

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

The above study seems to have the shaming that goes on in a lot of American movies as it's premise. EG: Man beaten by women, not really a man.

But anyway, has anybody hear heard about Christina Hoff Sommers? I don't agree with everything that she says, but she does make a difference between different types of feminism.

Thanks for link on Christina Hoff Sommers - she sounds interesting - piece was interesting anyway. I'm afraid I don't know what you are referring to in paragraph 1.

ironnike

Hello everyone
I'm a member of boards since few years now but I was never really active in here untill now.
If I got it right, the topic is about domestic violence and about women's being as violent and abusive as mens are. I came to Ireland about 6 years ago thinking about this country to be more civilised and more stabile then my own country. Few weeks ago I found out how wrong I was about when after nearly a year of struggle in a relationship and trying everything to make it work, for us and for our baby daughter. In the end, what happened wasn't nice atall. The reason of our struggle was my ex fiance's "best friend"(a girl) which it seems my ex fiance has a crush on her. One night, about a month ago We end up in an argument in the back garden where my ex fiancé start being laud (shouting at me). To no avail I told her to stop shouting as she did it even more. At some point she want it to get in the house where our baby girl was sleeping. When I tryied to stop her by holding the door handle, hell brake loose.Ex fiancé start shouting even louder, she start throwing things at my head and kicked me in the back. Now I lost my patience and I've pushed her away with one hand. She fall on the lawn and she start shouting even more. At this point, one of our neighbours ( a female) call the Gards and she told us she did. When my fiancé heared that, she start screaming in purpose like a women which life is in great danger. Even she was about 5 meters away from me on the lawn and I was at the door. Few minutes later the Gards arrived (4 of them) to stop me, "The Beast". It's true, I look quiet scary, I'm about 85KG heavy and my ex fiancé is about 45KG. The Gards came with the sticks and handcuffs ready. At that stage she calmed down and I invited them inside to talk. One of the Gards, a female was questioning my EX ,if she is hurt or have any bruises, or signs of my violance. she didn't had any as nothing happened apart of me pushing her away while she was throwing things at me. I told them about that and they didn't care or asked me if I'm ok. All they could say was:" You know, when we hear a women screaming automaticaly we think she is in great danger and she needs help. And we come and arest the guy. When we hear a man screaming and shouting, we show up and arrest the man for inapropriate behavior". Whatever! The female Garda tried to convince my EX to apply for an restraining order which she didn't. Obviously I left our home and spend the night in my parents house. Next day, I returned to our place to pickup my stuff and I left. Obviously as soon as I left the place, I already got an "anonim" text message being called "women basher" "abuser" and so on. At some stage texting with my ex, she said she won't allow me to see my daughter anymore and that she change the locks, so I won't have any acces in our home. Next day I've contacted an Family Law Solicitor to seek legal advice in what is best to do to regain acces in visiting my daughter. The Solicitor told me that by Irish law I have no right atall upon my child as we aren't legally married( sperm doner). So if she doesent want me to see my child, it is nothing I can do. The only thing which can be done is to bring the case to court and eventually if the judge wants I might get joint guardianship. But if my ex will say that I'm violent, I have big chances not to get the guardianship. And even with that, if she doesent want to allow me to see the child it is nothing I can do about.
Resolution:
I use to live in a few western countries and I never heared about such primitive and senseless laws. The explanation of the solicitor for the existance of that ilogical law was: " Irish men's long ago and even now where irresponsible and careless about they children's. Abandoning them and theyr mum's. so therefore the state came up with this law".
I know my storie it is long and I hope I wasent too much out off topic.
Nither me or my ex are Irish Nationals.

iptba

ironnike wrote: »

Hello everyone
I'm a member of boards since few years now but I was never really active in here untill now.
If I got it right, the topic is about domestic violence and about women's being as violent and abusive as mens are. I came to Ireland about 6 years ago thinking about this country to be more civilised and more stabile then my own country. Few weeks ago I found out how wrong I was about when after nearly a year of struggle in a relationship and trying everything to make it work, for us and for our baby daughter. In the end, what happened wasn't nice atall. The reason of our struggle was my ex fiance's "best friend"(a girl) which it seems my ex fiance has a crush on her. One night, about a month ago We end up in an argument in the back garden where my ex fiancé start being laud (shouting at me). To no avail I told her to stop shouting as she did it even more. At some point she want it to get in the house where our baby girl was sleeping. When I tryied to stop her by holding the door handle, hell brake loose.Ex fiancé start shouting even louder, she start throwing things at my head and kicked me in the back. Now I lost my patience and I've pushed her away with one hand. She fall on the lawn and she start shouting even more. At this point, one of our neighbours ( a female) call the Gards and she told us she did. When my fiancé heared that, she start screaming in purpose like a women which life is in great danger. Even she was about 5 meters away from me on the lawn and I was at the door. Few minutes later the Gards arrived (4 of them) to stop me, "The Beast". It's true, I look quiet scary, I'm about 85KG heavy and my ex fiancé is about 45KG. The Gards came with the sticks and handcuffs ready. At that stage she calmed down and I invited them inside to talk. One of the Gards, a female was questioning my EX ,if she is hurt or have any bruises, or signs of my violance. she didn't had any as nothing happened apart of me pushing her away while she was throwing things at me. I told them about that and they didn't care or asked me if I'm ok. All they could say was:" You know, when we hear a women screaming automaticaly we think she is in great danger and she needs help. And we come and arest the guy. When we hear a man screaming and shouting, we show up and arrest the man for inapropriate behavior". Whatever! The female Garda tried to convince my EX to apply for an restraining order which she didn't. Obviously I left our home and spend the night in my parents house. Next day, I returned to our place to pickup my stuff and I left. Obviously as soon as I left the place, I already got an "anonim" text message being called "women basher" "abuser" and so on. At some stage texting with my ex, she said she won't allow me to see my daughter anymore and that she change the locks, so I won't have any acces in our home. Next day I've contacted an Family Law Solicitor to seek legal advice in what is best to do to regain acces in visiting my daughter. The Solicitor told me that by Irish law I have no right atall upon my child as we aren't legally married( sperm doner). So if she doesent want me to see my child, it is nothing I can do. The only thing which can be done is to bring the case to court and eventually if the judge wants I might get joint guardianship. But if my ex will say that I'm violent, I have big chances not to get the guardianship. And even with that, if she doesent want to allow me to see the child it is nothing I can do about.
Resolution:
I use to live in a few western countries and I never heared about such primitive and senseless laws. The explanation of the solicitor for the existance of that ilogical law was: " Irish men's long ago and even now where irresponsible and careless about they children's. Abandoning them and theyr mum's. so therefore the state came up with this law".
I know my storie it is long and I hope I wasent too much out off topic.
Nither me or my ex are Irish Nationals.

Very sorry to hear about your story.

I recall reading that women's groups have given the Gardai training on domestic violence. I'm not confident such training would be balanced (indeed maybe somebody posted information on it years ago to tGC).

JimmyCrackCorn

Having far more experience of domestic violence than id like. Its always a sad sad story with the woman more often defending the bloke.

Usual excuses:

• He didn't mean it
• Never happen again
• I'm so ashamed
• What will xyz think
• Hes giving up the drink
• The children
• Where would I go....

The police can do little without a charge being laid by the woman. If you ask do you want me to have a word its usually no. Having to listen to stories of he tried to strangle me or had a knife or battered me is exactly how it plays out.

In my experience booze is usually involved and rationality of the abuser doesn't come into play. A TV add changes nothing and those adverts are in my opinion so soft and far from reality as to be nieve. Why can we show a car crash with horrific detail and not domestic violence or substance abuse?

How do you deal with it I honestly don't know. People who deal with this on a daily basis are best placed to propose suggestions. Those people however are usually overworked and under-resourced.


It may in my narrow view of the world be one of those problems that has the same toxic cycle as substance abuse. A horrible co-dependent mix of love loathing and misery. Its often just too shocking, insidious and nasty to be believable but its very real.

Zulu

Sorry about the delay on this...

Zulu wrote: »

...I'm rushing on my mobile now but when I get a chance later I'll post the responses verbatim here.

Here's the response I got from the HSE:

HSE wrote:

Dear Mr. ...,

Please find attached letter of response from Mr. Gordon Jeyes, National Director Children & Family Services for your attention.

Kind Regards,
...

...,
Office of the National Director,
Children & Family Services,
Health Service Executive,
Block D, 3rd Floor,
Park Gate Business Centre,
Parkgate Street,
Dublin 8.

(see attachment)

Here's the response I got from the minister:

Phil Hogan's office wrote:

3 December, 2012

Email:

Dear Mr ...,

I have been asked by Mr. Phil Hogan ,T.D., Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to acknowledge receipt of your recent email in connection with the "Man Up" advertisement campaign by SafeIreland.

I would like to explain to you that this is not an issue for this Department. We do not direct SafeIreland on how they run their information campaigns.


Yours sincerely,


__________________
Eddie Kiernan
Private Secretary

I've yet to get a response/acknowledgment from the (who I can only describe as) utterly useless shower of incompetent cretins over at the ASAI

iptba

Another unbalanced piece on domestic violence:

Editorial in Irishe Examiner:

Domestic violence - A sinister corner of our society
Thursday, April 18, 2013
http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/editorial/domestic-violence--a-sinister-corner-of-our-society-228617.html

It starts:

Domestic violence is a scourge that afflicts the lives of many people in this country, especially women and children.

That's as good as it gets in terms of balance. After that, it's just focuses on women as victims, males as perpetrators.

One can now leave comments under Irish Examiner articles like this.

Zulu

As a final update on my previous post, I never got any acknowledgment or response from the ASCI. I guess they are too busy chasing down Hunky Dorey advertisements.

iptba

Zulu wrote: »

As a final update on my previous post, I never got any acknowledgment or response from the ASCI. I guess they are too busy chasing down Hunky Dorey advertisements.

Did you fill in the online form when complaining saying which category you thought the ad broke, etc?

iptba

At least we haven't got to this stage* - government website in Western Australia:
http://www.dcp.wa.gov.au/crisisandemergency/pages/domesticviolencehelplines.aspx
(make sure not just to read the titles but the actual description of the second service!)

*that I know of

Morag

Zulu wrote: »

As a final update on my previous post, I never got any acknowledgment or response from the ASCI. I guess they are too busy chasing down Hunky Dorey advertisements.

If the add is not for goods and/or services then it doesn't fall with in their remit.

iptba

I just happened to see on Twitter this debate yesterday - perhaps such debates are not rare, I don't follow Irish politics that closely:
http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/seanad2013050800022?opendocument#V01800

"That Seanad Éireann:
— notes the incidence of domestic violence in Ireland and the devastating consequences that it has for both the individual victims and survivors and for the wider society;
— notes and commends the immense work being done to support victims and survivors of domestic violence by many State and non-governmental organisations;
— commends the Minister for Justice for his commitment to reform of the law on domestic violence; for his introduction of important changes through the Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provision) Act 2011;
— further commends the Minister for recently securing agreement on the introduction of a European Protection Order; and
— calls upon the Government to support the Council of Europe Convention on prevention and combating violence against women and domestic violence (the Istanbul Convention);
— calls upon the Government to consider improving and extending eligibility for both Safety and Barring Orders to ensure full protection for those at risk from domestic violence; and
— calls upon the Government to endeavour to protect funding in this year's Budget for Domestic Violence Services and to ensure the provision of appropriate and adequate services for women and children at risk from domestic violence.".

iptba

Big article in Irish Independent today:

The male victims of domestic violence
http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/the-male-victims-of-domestic-violence-29258401.html

py2006

I am not sure if I mentioned this before in this thread but in a conversation at work one day I happened to mention that, "men get screwed by the legal system here, especially when it comes to family etc..". I can't recall the nature of the conversation but my statement was met with basically, "WHAT??????.....HOW EXACTLY?????" in a rather aggressive tone. As I was the only man at a table for 4 women I chose to shut up there and then.

A week later, out of the blue, one of the ladies said, "Sure, he hates women". Needless to say my jaw dropped at that one and all I could do was laugh loudly.

iptba

Wife put washing-up liquid in my noodles, gardaí told
Friday, May 24, 2013
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/wife-put-washing-up-liquid-in-my-noodles-gardai-told-232212.html

This is on a court case.
I could imagine this sort of behaviour is involved in some cases. Reports I've seen are that both parties are responsible in a reasonable percentage of cases. I could imagine that if a man did this to a woman, it would be classed as some sort of provocation or psychological abuse or the like.