"Man Up" campaign & the continued media erosion of men.

Piliger

Zulu wrote: »

Here is the letter I'm sending to SafeIreland. Thanks to everyone for helping draft it (with your posts here), but in particular Cainos who I've pretty much quoted verbatim on one point.
I'm going to send this in twenty mins - any last min points would be greatly appreciated.

I have also decided to write a similar - copy/paste/edit version of this letter. Note 'letter' not email. Emails are too easily dismissed. I also plan to attach a print out of the Amen.ie page referenced in "Lon Dubh"'s post earlier highlighting, with a highlighter, it's statistics about violence against men.

It is great to discuss these issues here on Boards. Great. But we MUST get out and express our response and how WE as MEN feel about these things directly to those who continue to feed these prejudices.

I urge all men to write to this organisation and say what they think.

iptba

Piliger wrote: »

I have also decided to write a similar - copy/paste/edit version of this letter. Note 'letter' not email. Emails are too easily dismissed. I also plan to attach a print out of the Amen.ie page referenced in "Lon Dubh"'s post earlier highlighting, with a highlighter, it's statistics about violence against men.

It is great to discuss these issues here on Boards. Great. But we MUST get out and express our response and how WE as MEN feel about these things directly to those who continue to feed these prejudices.

I urge all men to write to this organisation and say what they think.

If people do write, it'd also be good if they either post the letters here (redacting some information/bits if you prefer) and/or post them to some other body. Maybe those entities http://www.safeireland.ie/about-us/our-funders/ that fund them? Perhaps also to some politicians e.g. local TDs (and Senators).
If one wanted to go further than this group, I suppose one would also look at those who fund the individual organisations in Safe Ireland.

Piliger

I have drawn up this letter for posting tomorrow FYI:

I am writing to you to express my deep disappointment and upset at your offensive campaign that you call “Man up”.

As a man of 56, I have been married and divorced and I have had many relationships with women in my life. I have never felt the urge to be physically aggressive with any woman, never mind a man, in my life – though I, like most men, and women , have known provocation and incitement.

Your campaign headline is: "Don't control or abuse Women or Children"

Your Logo is: "Creating safety for Women and Children"


Clearly from these headlines on your site, together with the fact that your site is, as far as I can find, presenting a picture of Ireland where all domestic violence is perpetrated by Man, and all victims are Women and Children.

I am bewildered by this Campaign. I am bewildered because I find it hard to imagine how you can present this case to the Irish people and label Men as perpetrators in such a nakedly prejudiced and inaccurate way.

Indeed your headline graphic “Man Up” clearly addresses every man in Ireland says to him that he is an abuser and it belittles all men.

“Man Up” is a call to Action. It says to all men that even those who are not an abuser requires action; in other words, we’re all abusers by default. This is grossly offensive and I find it astonishing and quite shocking that such a campaign is conceivable by anyone who cares at all about domestic violence. I find it shocking that anyone can be so blinkered and so prejudice that they chose to take such a one dimensional and one sided position on such an issue – choosing to smear all men, and only men with this label.

And in doing so this Campaign, by default, labels all women as victims and innocent.

Which is quite shocking considering in 2005 the National Crime Council (NCC), in association with the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI), published the first ever large scale study undertaken to give an overview of the nature, extent and impact of domestic abuse against women and men in intimate partner relationships in Ireland. A report which has not been equalled or questioned since.


Let me quote a couple of findings to you:

Ireland 2005 ESRI/NCC report:
• 29% of women and 26% of men suffer domestic abuse when severe and
minor abuse are combined
• 13% of women and 13% of men suffer physical abuse

In the UK:
Adult patients attending the emergency department of Addenbrooke’s Hospital, Cambridge were interviewed in randomly allocated time blocks, using validated questions from a US study. 256 completed interviews were returned out of a possible 307 (84.8%). The incidence of domestic violence was 1.2%. The lifetime prevalence of domestic violence was 22.4% among men and 22.1% among women.

In Canada – 2004 General Social Survey:
Rates of spousal violence by a current or previous partner in the 5 year period were 7% for women and 6% for men, representing an estimated 653,000 women and 546,000 men.

What does all of this mean ?

It would take a very bizarre person to read these and numerous other reports, as I have, and come out of it with the viewpoint that Men are the Abusers and Women are the Victims. I would like to ask Safe Ireland how you have come to this conclusion, and how you justify launching this appallingly biased and offensive campaign and on what research and what grounds you justify it ?

Not only do you paint an astonishing picture of Ireland and Irish Men as abusers or potential abusers, and women as innocents - Has any consideration been made as to what message “Man Up” sends to male victims of domestic abuse? Are these victims of domestic abuse supposed to take it on the chin, like a “Real Man”? Are Irish Men supposed to endure this violence and just Man Up ?

It may well be the case that your organisation and it’s members may have come to the issue of domestic violence from a good direction, with a desire to reduce and eradicate it. But your decision to launch this appalling and offensive Campaign against Irish men is outrageous and disgusting.

I urge you to abandon this Campaign and to recognise that Men are suffering all across this country from violence by their partners and are being continually and repeatedly ignored. I urge you to come out and apologise for this campaign and to accept that Men are also victims and not all women are innocents.

Regards,
..............

Piliger

iptba wrote: »

If people do write, it'd also be good if they either post the letters here (redacting some information/bits if you prefer) and/or post them to some other body. Maybe those entities http://www.safeireland.ie/about-us/our-funders/ that fund them? Perhaps also to some politicians e.g. local TDs (and Senators).
If one wanted to go further than this group, I suppose one would also look at those who fund the individual organisations in Safe Ireland.

I agree.

The Funders appear to be:

HSE Children & Families
DECLG (Formally DCRGA)
COSC
Pobal
The Wheel

I intend to write to all of these and the Minister and my local TD, including a copy of my above letter.

I urge others to do the same.

Esoteric_

Having been a victim of domestic abuse (by a male) and having seen a male friend be a victim of domestic abuse (by a female), I'm a little disgusted at this campaign.

Yes, it's great that they want to stop violence against women, that's a great attitude to have. But it's all horrible biased.

Women may be more likely to suffer domestic abuse, but men sure as hell suffer from it, too. I can't agree with a campaign that's so blatantly biased toward one gender.

DamoKen

iptba wrote: »

If people do write, it'd also be good if they either post the letters here (redacting some information/bits if you prefer) and/or post them to some other body. Maybe those entities http://www.safeireland.ie/about-us/our-funders/ that fund them? Perhaps also to some politicians e.g. local TDs (and Senators).
If one wanted to go further than this group, I suppose one would also look at those who fund the individual organisations in Safe Ireland.

I was thinking the same. Already decided to write to Safe Ireland but think including local TD's, Senators as well as funding agencies outlined by Piliger might be more effective than Safe Ireland alone. I will be informing Safe Ireland that I have also voiced my objection to these parties.

They have to be reminded that although their mandate appears to be women and children alone, they are not a privately funded organisation which can do as they please. Instead they are in receipt of public funding and as such have a duty of care to report responsibly when communicating with the public at large. They should at the very least attempt a semblance of objectivity and fairness. Instead they present to the nation a very distorted and downright prejudicial portrayal of half the citizens of the country they wish to make safe (for some), courtesy of the public purse.

This will be the first time I've written a letter of this nature, generally pretty easy going but I think this campaign will do far more harm than good. It may have increased call ins from women in abusive situations which is great, but on the other side of the coin not only will it achieve nothing that I can see with those who actually do abuse women & children, if anything it will alienate many many men from a very worthy cause whose objectives we would wholeheartedly support.

And least we forget as Safe Ireland seem eager to do, the lasting and tragic damage this will cause by reinforcing the myth of male victims of domestic violence, the very group that so badly needs some form of recognition.

LeeHoffmann

I urge all men to write to this organisation and say what they think.

I think support from women on this would also greatly help your cause - the more the merrier, and seeing as women are the group safe ireland aims to represent, their opinions might be less easy to dismiss

Esoteric_

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

I think support from women on this would also greatly help your cause - the more the merrier, and seeing as women are the group safe ireland aims to represent, their opinions might be less easy to dismiss

Agreed with this post 100%. They have shown that they are biased in favour of women, so any woman who disagrees with this should really write in, too.

I will be.

Zulu

For the record, I've still received no acknowledgment from SafeIreland (as to be expected).
I've made a complaint to the ASAI.
I've sent a letter to Minister Hogan.
I've complained to the HSE.

**** them. I'm not going to stand idly by in a society while it demonises people.

DamoKen

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

I think support from women on this would also greatly help your cause - the more the merrier, and seeing as women are the group safe ireland aims to represent, their opinions might be less easy to dismiss

Very true. This campaign negatively affects both men and women, as does domestic violence, as do many other issues, we don't live on different planets! The more that remind Safe Ireland of this the better

iptba

Another way to highlight the issue is to send letters to the editor of a newspaper. However, generally one won't be able to re-use a letter for Safe Ireland or TD directly as it will be too long. Irish Times is probably hardest to get in to. If you do one, one can possibly use it for more than one paper as long as the newspaper doesn't say it wants an exclusive (as the Sunday Times do, as I recall).

If anyone set up a petition, it might be useful.

LeeHoffmann

To help with letter writing, some addreses:

Cosc – The National Office for the Prevention of Domestic, Sexual and Gender-based Violence
Department of Justice and Equality
2nd Floor, Montague Court
Montague Street
Dublin 2

contact details for pobal

The Wheel
48 Fleet Street
(entrance Parliament Row)
Dublin 2

HSE Head Office
Oak House
Millennium Park,
Naas,
Co. Kildare

Sleepy

Just noticed they're on Twitter: @SAFEIreland and using the #manup hashtag.... maybe time to hijack the hashtag? Twitter seems to get a lot more media coverage than stuff posted here on boards.ie or letter writing campaigns.

iptba

I happened to be looking at this Health Research Board (HRB) document. The Health Research Board is funded directly by taxpayers.

http://www.hrb.ie/uploads/media/A_Picture_of_Health_2011__web_.pdf

Children in families where the parents have separated after a history of domestic abuse - perpetrated by their father against their mother - want to be included in discussions about contact with the abusive parent, their father.

That is one of the findings of a HRB-funded study that examined the experiences and the concerns of children in Ireland where there has been a history of the father abusing the mother before separation.

--
A couple of extracts:

And what she heard from 16 children and
young people who took part was a mix of
responses.

“Some were desperate for contact with the
fathers who had no interest in them, while
other children wanted no contact,” says Dr
Holt. “But for me the overriding consideration
was that very few people, including their
parents, actually sat down with the child and
asked ‘what do you want?’.”

Her research also highlighted the continued
abuse of mothers and children by the
mother’s ex-partner through the facility of
child contact.

All seems to be quite negative about men and fathers, and uncritical about women and mothers, and generally a one-sided analysis of domestic abuse in Ireland.

Zombrex

It is rather ridiculous that an organisation called Safe Ireland would target only women and children.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for support that targets solely women suffering from domestic violence, traditionally women have needed this support more than men (for example woman traditionally worked less and had less access to financial support if they wished to leave, necessitating the need for things like woman's shelters).

But the reality is that male on male violence is by far the biggest area of violence in Ireland, and "Safe Ireland" seems to whole sale ignore this. If you want to focus solely on women fair enough (there are groups that focus solely on men suffering violence), but don't call yourself Safe Ireland for crying out loud.

Zulu

Zulu wrote: »

For the record, I've still received no acknowledgment from SafeIreland (as to be expected).

Still no acknowledgment from safeireland.

I've made a complaint to the ASAI.

I believe they respond via snail mail so I'll wait and see.

I've sent a letter to Minister Hogan.

I got an email response from his department stating:

email wrote:

I have been asked by Mr. Phil Hogan ,T.D., Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to acknowledge receipt of your recent email in connection with the "Man Up" advertisement campaign by SafeIreland.

I would like to explain to you that this is not an issue for this Department. We do not direct SafeIreland on how they run their information campaigns.

Sadly they seem to have missed my opening point:
"I’m writing to express both my concern and disappointment with respect to the recent advertisement campaign “Man Up” by SafeIreland. As your department is a significant source of funding for this organisation, I feel obliged to notify you of this complaint."

I've complained to the HSE.

Who've acknowledged my complaint and have forwarded it internally. They have committed to revert.

Piliger

No responses yet from Safe Ireland, Pobal, The Wheel etc.

ASAI is a good idea ....


Also people ........ email is a USELESS media for complaints. Email is too easily disregarded and dealt with my juniors. Real letters are the only media that matter.

iptba

Piliger wrote: »

No responses yet from Safe Ireland, Pobal, The Wheel etc.

ASAI is a good idea ....


Also people ........ email is a USELESS media for complaints. Email is too easily disregarded and dealt with my juniors. Real letters are the only media that matter.

E-mail may be less than ideal for some things (I don't know) but I imagine ASAI prefer it (I've dealt with them) as do newspaper letters page editors.

Piliger

iptba wrote: »

E-mail may be less than ideal for some things (I don't know) but I imagine ASAI prefer it (I've dealt with them) as do newspaper letters page editors.

Newspapers operate a special email address for specific kinds of submissions such as letter to the editor. That is different. And the same goes for specific kinds of submissions to ASAI.

However letters of protest or serious complaint where the organisations does not have a dedicated email channel are FAR FAR better submitted in hard copy letter addressed to individuals. They are far more likely to get to that individual and in my experience are deal with more seriously. It is a psychological as much as a procedural difference.

Jofspring

I see Munster Rugby are also promoting this campaign in a local paper which is sad to see. Two prominent rugby players holding a poster saying Man Up lads and stop domestic abuse. Seeing an organization like Munster sending out this bias message to men is awful and I feel they should distance themselves from it till it targets both males and females.

Piliger

Another issue which I included in my letters is this ....

Why do none of these organisations have a single Men's Organisation involved in their campaigns or on their boards or as associates ?

We are hearing all the time about gender audits, gender balance. Where is the balance ? Where is there ANYone representing men ????

Tigger99

In answer to your question piliger, because they wrongly assume men dont need to be the focus of any such campaigns and because men might be less vocal about abuse because there is the added shame that it shouldn't happen to them because they are men. I know female victims can and do feel unwarranted shame, guilt & embarrassment, but for men there's that extra miseducation that men dont suffer abuse.

Piliger

Tigger99 wrote: »

In answer to your question piliger, because they wrongly assume men dont need to be the focus of any such campaigns and because men might be less vocal about abuse because there is the added shame that it shouldn't happen to them because they are men. I know female victims can and do feel unwarranted shame, guilt & embarrassment, but for men there's that extra miseducation that men dont suffer abuse.

The other reason is that there is literally NO ONE telling them that Men matter.

Like the Minister, all departments, all charities, all funders, all clubs ... etc etc etc ... every day, every week, every month they are lobbied by women's groups and feminist groups telling them how awful life is for women and how much help they need and how unfair things are ......... but NO ONE ever contacts them about Men.

It is hardly surprising that we Men are getting screwed by the system.

donfers

Piliger wrote: »

The other reason is that there is literally NO ONE telling them that Men matter.

Like the Minister, all departments, all charities, all funders, all clubs ... etc etc etc ... every day, every week, every month they are lobbied by women's groups and feminist groups telling them how awful life is for women and how much help they need and how unfair things are ......... but NO ONE ever contacts them about Men.

It is hardly surprising that we Men are getting screwed by the system.

yes any political drive with the title "gender" in it is just a euphemism for feminists to deny their one-sided world view

otto_26

eviltwin wrote: »

But Safe Ireland only deal with women. Its like a gay charity doing an awareness campaign on HIV/AIDS, its not saying only gay people are at risk but is focusing on the people they represent. I wouldn't expect Amen to start talking about domestic violence against women so why would you expect Safe Ireland which is an umbrella group for all the domestic violence services aimed at women to start dealing with men??

Do you understand the term sexist?
Do you agree everyone is equal?
Do you think a campaign against domestic violence should only target some victims or all?
Do you believe in human rights? The right for help and protection no matter what your gender?
Do you think it's OK to use sexist slogans to get information out to the public?

You start off by saying Safe Ireland only deals with women...This is the exact problem everyone is trying to describe.... You seem to suggest its ok to help people but only on gender.

The whole campaign is completely 1950's Ireland it's a disgrace. :rolleyes:

Piliger

otto_26 wrote: »

The whole campaign is completely 1950's Ireland it's a disgrace. :rolleyes:

In a nutshell !!!!

lechiennoir

Piliger wrote: »

We are hearing all the time about gender audits, gender balance. Where is the balance ? Where is there ANYone representing men ????

Gender balance, gender equality, gender audits etc. are only about one gender: female. They are about the placement and enforcement of female privilege in every area of life, from guaranteed positions for women in every level of every company to the situation we now have where if our political parties don't run women for the sake of running women, regardless of their actual suitability as a candidate, they're punished financially.

I'm so unbelievably tired of the modern media spitting on men at every chance it gets. It portrays us a bumbling fools, inferior in intellect and ability to the women characters in the story, wherever and whenever it can. It portrays us as predators, as potential rapists and child molesters too...wherever and whenever it can.

We have a media that can portray men being hit by a woman ... and it's funny! They can be hit in the crotch by a woman ... still hilarious! They can be taken advantage of sexually ... f**king hysterical!

We now live in a society whereby a man cannot feel secure being left with a child in a room alone, and yet STILL men are spat on every day, in every little form of media available.

When is it enough?

We now have this campaign that once again makes men out to be the only ones capable of violence, when there is just 3% of a difference in those asking for help from abuse. And the media accepts it, and a handful of self-loathing men get behind it.

The ASAI is useless. They're not worth contacting at all because they will absolutely not take this seriously. I've spoken to them on a number of things, most recently Just-Eat.ie's claim that "REAL MEN DON'T COOK!" and DoneDeal's continual misandry in the media.

It's not taken seriously. Abuse of men is not taken seriously, at all, and least so by women.

Is this the "equality" and change that society needed? Is this modern and progressive?

I'm tired of it. I'm tired of misandrist "feminists" and the "feminist" movement and I'm tired of the massive double standards on display by these people and the media that supports them. This movement has destroyed a very significant part of society - men's relationships with children, even their own f**king children - and as a result I will not support it in any way, shape or form going forward.

Reku

In a way it's rather short-sighted IMO; in the US there's a known element of living down to expectations within the black community, which results in higher levels of dropping out of school and gang related activity. Is it really a stretch to see this constant negative stereotyping of the male gender going pear shaped in a similar way, with the stereotype being seen as somewhat condoning the worst parts of it?
"Did you hear x raped 2 women?"
"Well sure what do you expect, he's a man..."

Give it time and unfortunately this is the mindset the current generation will have engrained upon them.

iptba

I notice the Focus Ireland radio ad also has a woman and her children becoming homeless because of a violent man.

GalwayGuy2

Hmm seems to be a debate going on in the NUIG spotted page.