Antibiotics, Are people really that stupid

Calibos

Something I have found very interesting is that I have worked in retail all my life in a large town beside the highest population centre in the country and I have possibly gotten the flu once in my 38 years. Up till a few weeks ago I thought I had definately had it as a kid but mentioned it to my mother and she never recalled any of us getting the flu.

While I already know to disregard the word of those that say they've had it every year because they are the gob****es that obviously don't know the difference between a cold and the flu, I can't disregard the word of others who have already posted in this thread who do know the difference and who have said they have had the flu several times in the last few years.

You'd think given what and where I work at I would have a much increased exposure to the flu and have had it several times by now.

Should I have my antibodies and DNA tested to help rid the world of the flu menace??

Malari

Red Hand wrote: »

Why do you talk sense in After Hours?:P Away with you!

Sorry. Vaccines gave me autism.


:pac:

old hippy

Calibos wrote: »

Something I have found very interesting is that I have worked in retail all my life in a large town beside the highest population centre in the country and I have possibly gotten the flu once in my 38 years. Up till a few weeks ago I thought I had definately had it as a kid but mentioned it to my mother and she never recalled any of us getting the flu.

While I already know to disregard the word of those that say they've had it every year because they are the gob****es that obviously don't know the difference between a cold and the flu, I can't disregard the word of others who have already posted in this thread who do know the difference and who have said they have had the flu several times in the last few years.

You'd think given what and where I work at I would have a much increased exposure to the flu and have had it several times by now.

Should I have my antibodies and DNA tested to help rid the world of the flu menace??

No, because "they" will lock you up, fearing your impact on their global pharma business

Red Hand

Malari wrote: »

Sorry. Vaccines gave me autism.


:pac:

And the Catholic Church!

Akrasia

I went to the doctor with my young son because he had a fever and was delerius and I wanted to rule out Meningitis
The doctor examined him and told me 'it's a virus'

He then wrote a prescription for an Antibiotic
I didn't get the prescription filled. I was pretty shocked by his attitude

My kids are 3 and a half and 1 and a half and neither of them has ever had an antibiotic.
I have a nephew who is 1 year old who has hardly ever not been on an antibiotic for various little complaints.

What chance does his immune system have to develop if the his bacterial flora are under constant attack from antibiotic drugs?

As a physical creature, human cells are outnumbered by bacterial cells, we're more bacteria than human. The vast majority of these thousands of strains of bacteria are benign, many are essential to healthy body function, and whenever we take an antibiotic we are killing these bacteria randomly.

Overusing antibiotics is not just a problem because it reduces the effectiveness of antibiotics for the future through breeding drug resistent bacteria (this is a tragedy of the commons), it's also damaging to an individuals immune system. Bacteria live in a very competitive environment, different strains are constantly battling each other for resources, If we kill off a load of bacteria through a course of antibiotics, it leaves room for other bacteria to colonise us, and sometimes, changing the balance will allow pathogenic bacteria to gain a competitive advantage.

TheUsual

If antibiotics cure you, what are biotics ?
That's the million dollar question right there.

Lyaiera

TheUsual wrote: »

If antibiotics cure you, what are biotics ?
That's the million dollar question right there.

Probiotics? They've been advertising and selling them for years.

TheUsual

Lyaiera wrote: »

Probiotics? They've been advertising and selling them for years.

Biotics is the really what we need to eliminate.
Then there will be no need for the 'antibiotic' and 'probiotic' industries. Save a fortune.

I think I might win an Nobel award for this next year.

lorebringer

I went to the GP two weeks ago, had a clod but was there for an unrelated reason. Sat down in the office and said "I'm dosed with a cold, sorry" and blew my nose to which my doctor replied "I'm not giving you antibiotics" and stood up for me to leave... hold sh!t - dude was pissed (and prob a bit mortofied when I told him what was really wrong with me!).

They must just hear it all the time, people looking for antibiotics and claiming it's not a cold.

El_Dangeroso

starviewadams wrote: »

GP's just probably get fed up of trying to explain to the gob****es that the antibiotics won't do them any good,so write the script to get rid of them.

I wonder if I went into my doctors whinging that I wanted some very powerful opiate painkillers would I get them? Doubt it.

The fault here lies with the GPs. How much cheaper would it be just to tell GPs to stop prescribing unnecessary antibiotics rather than an expensive public information campaign.

UCDVet

danniemcq wrote: »

According to the news there one in three people expect antibiotics when they go to the docs with a cold or flu.

So now there is the big campaign, ads and news pieces telling people not to take them if they don't need them.

Now my issue with this is this, why are docs still giving them out. Should the docs not have the "talk" and not the people on the street.

this would save a lot of hassle and money (guessing SOMEONE has to pay for the ads) not enough to pay off europe i know but its something.

And if people demand antibiotics then give them sugar pills/placebos and send them on their way.

Doctors should be banned/prosecuted for giving out these drugs.

I'm a reasonably educated, 'free', person. Why can't *I* buy drugs on my own? Because the Irish Government says I'm TOO STUPID. We're all too stupid. Only medical professionals with years of training can decide if I need an antibiotic.

So now, you tell me these same medical professionals are handing out potentially dangerous drugs because the patient 'wants it' - they aren't doctors anymore. They are drug dealers. Drug dealers who operate with the government's blessing.

This is absolute rubish!

Now we've got ads aimed at educating individuals so they can decide for themselves if they need antibiotics?!?!?! Yet, it's ILLEGAL for them to buy antibiotics without a doctor?! Why aren't we educating *DOCTORS*? Oh wait, we already did.

There is no sense educating the public if you've already decided the public is too stupid (and the government has).
There is no sense educating the doctors (they already are, and it's their business to educate themselves)

The solution to doctor's behaving criminally is to stop doctor's from behaving criminally. Make the public aware of/streamline the process of reporting malpractice so that doctor's giving out inappropriate drugs can be stopped.

Giselle

Lollipops23 wrote: »

I have a condition that means if I get a chest infection I could end up very seriously ill if I don't take a course of antibiotics and nip it in the bud early on. It sucks, as I'm not a fan of medicating in general, but can't be helped.

If thats a viral infection, those antibiotics are doing nothing except possibly making the ones you might have to take for a bacterial infection work less efficiently.

I suppose you'd need a swab to determine what kind of infection it is and if antibiotics are necessary, but I'd be wary of taking them on any kind of a regular basis.

Its been a long time since I had a course of antibiotics, and that was after surgery. I have had dreadful 'flu (not a bad cold), on two occasions. It felt like I was very seriously ill, I lost a huge amount of weight and I couldn't get out of bed without help, but there was no treatment except time.

byhookorbycrook

Like an earlier poster my medical treatments make me very prone to infections,so I find that I get given out to for NOT getting antibios in time.I try to avoid them as much as I can though.

who the fug

Seaneh wrote: »

I've had flu twice and neither time did I go to the doctor.

June 2007, normal flu, 10 days in bed, lost about 3.5kg, called ,y gp, told her symptoms, she said "probably flu, I'll check in on you during the week" and she called me a few times to monitor and remind me to keep eating and taking fluids as much as I could, wrote a script for strong pain killers and told me to take a multivitiman. No need to go to the doctor with flu, they can't do anything for you.

July 2009, got swine flu, again, called GP, she told me to stay at home, it was probably swine flu, she came to my house herself and wore a mask, checked me out, told me I was lucky as they had just stopped quarantining people the week before and I wouldn't have to be dragged to hospital and put in a sterile room. Was abotu 12 days in bed, lost about 6kg and wasn't right for about 2 weeks after.


If you have flu, or suspect you have flu, phone your GP/Clinic/out of hours service and tell them the symptoms, odds are they will tell you to stay at home, as they can't help you and you going to their surgery just means you are likely to infect other people.

Have always said that the safest place if flu is about is the doctors surgery, as people with the flu will not be able to get there

ashers22

I visited my doc at the start of Nov just for a checkup because I was having trouble recovering after training, I had caught the miserable bastard cold that was doing the rounds at the start of Oct and being a smoker I'm used to the lingering chesty congestion when I catch one but figured its normal at this stage and never visit doc to resolve it.
I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to have a heart attack during my next training seasion. Doc did a simple test and concluded I had asthma and sent me away with an inhaler instead. Forget the antibiotics, its steroids all the way now!

seven_eleven

ITT: Nobody understands what antibiotics do

Cookie_Monster

Lyaiera wrote: »

Well if you've gone to the doctor for a flu you've still used their time and expertise. It's not the doctor's fault that you couldn't tell that all you had was the flu.

not always that simple, workplaces will demand a sick note so you often have to waste everyone's time going and getting one written when both he and you know you just need to be in bed or on the coach or whatever taking it easy.

goose2005

Terrlock wrote: »

Just get a pint of milk, and drop a silver coin in it and see how long it takes for it to go off.

Spoonful of bleach will do the same, maybe you could drink that when you get sick.

Madam_X

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Expect to be literally in bed for a week or more and lose a fair amount of weight. You truely ache all over and are going to find it hard to walk.
Had the flu once and will never mix up with a cold.

When it's a bad flu, you can't even get out of the bed to go to the doc.

charlemont wrote: »

Its all about money, Antibiotics sell, And if they don't work then the patient comes back..Ker-ching..Health has nothing to do with it..

Health never has anything to do with it?
Obviously it does.

old hippy wrote: »

I've had a cold which has mutated and hassled since the end of Sept. I've been coughing up slippery yuck for the last 2 weeks, so I was glad to get the old anti-b's yesterday...

Exactly. Whenever I get a bad cold, I try to kill it myself first, but it nearly always causes a sinus infection, and that sometimes goes into my chest. So I will go to the doctor, and will take antibiotics if needs be - usually the case. And still it takes a good while to clear. However, thanks to some experts here, based on solid evidence, not flimsy speculation at all, I have now learned that my GP, whom I'm quite pally with, having attended him for years and years, is part of a big pharma conspiracy and doesn't really have my health/welfare at heart! :eek:
Thanks guys - phew!

dirtyden

Antibiotics are a good thing.

Allowing an infection to fester can be very dangerous.

I do not think there is any conspiracy by GPs to over subscribe antibiotics. Taking penicillin for a mild infection will clear it up. They are not expensive.

Drug resistant strains are an issue in hospitals and not for mild infections that people pick up when their immune system is compromised which often occurs when someone has a cold. People who go to their doctors with a cold in many cases have an associated chest infection. Now most of the time this will clear without treatment, there is no doubt a dose of pens will speed things up considerably though. If you dont want ur chest infection to linger for weeks take the drugs.

I'm a fan of antibiotics.. I've been regularly getting chest infections for as long as I can remember. One or two a year. I wait and wait for it to go away but after a couple of weeks, I resort back to them and it goes away.

--Kaiser--

dirtyden wrote: »

Antibiotics are a good thing.

Allowing an infection to fester can be very dangerous.

I do not think there is any conspiracy by GPs to over subscribe antibiotics. Taking penicillin for a mild infection will clear it up. They are not expensive.

Drug resistant strains are an issue in hospitals and not for mild infections that people pick up when their immune system is compromised which often occurs when someone has a cold. People who go to their doctors with a cold in many cases have an associated chest infection. Now most of the time this will clear without treatment, there is no doubt a dose of pens will speed things up considerably though. If you dont want ur chest infection to linger for weeks take the drugs.

Antibiotics can be a good thing.
They certainly don't need to be prescribed for every niggling complaint that people have. They should only be prescribed in serious cases, firstly because if you continually take antibiotics any time you are sick your immune system has no chance to develop and secondly because overuse and misuse of antibiotics create serious diseases like MRSA

Squiggle

When you're going to the pharmacy to get the antibiotic to "cure" your virus you might as well get a few homeopathy products to boost your health while you're at it! Both equally useless :pac:

JayEnnis

I don't know if its been posted but doctors handing them out and people abusing them are the reason that these 'superbugs' are becoming more common. In 100 years time we won't have the means to fight these new antibiotic resistant bacteria. It really is quite scary.

Wibbs

dirtyden wrote: »

Antibiotics are a good thing.

When applied correctly and when actually needed.

I do not think there is any conspiracy by GPs to over subscribe antibiotics. Taking penicillin for a mild infection will clear it up. They are not expensive.

No, not a conspiracy, more from habit and patients getting twitchy if they don't get their pill for every ill. Penicillin is but one form of antibiotic and quite the powerful one(or used to be) and yes it will clear a minor infection, but surely the definition of minor means your body should clear it without easily enough?

Antibiotics vary widely enough in cost, so not really part of the argument. The true cost comes from having to many of these incredible and powerful drugs in the environment driving the evolution of resistance in bacteria. So that "penicillin" for your mild infection adds more into the mix. OK but even though it may clear up the infection at least some of those mild bugs will survive because they have built in resistance. Next time you get the same dose of those guys the drug will have less and less effect.

Drug resistant strains are an issue in hospitals and not for mild infections that people pick up when their immune system is compromised which often occurs when someone has a cold.

Nope, what you take for mild infections affects others. Say you take the drug and kill the vast majority of these mild bugs the ones that survive could come in contact with much more vicious bacteria and share that information with them. Yep bacteria can exchange immunity with each other without evolving it themselves. Adaptable little bastards that they are. So a person knocking antibiotics like smarties can affect everyone including people who have never taken one(though the latter will have higher natural resistance). You see this more in hospitals because...well they have more bacteria knocking around and different and likely vicious strains of same. This goes double since we got lazy disinfecting hospitals after the antibiotic wonder drugs came along. Before that we doused the hospitals in carbolic etc, because we had to. Look at the design of some of our older hospital buildings. Things like where the walls meet the floor, they don't meet in a right angle crevice, instead have a curved surface, which is easier to sterilise.

On top of all that, bacteria aren't all bad. Not by a long shot. Even some "bad" ones are only bad in the wrong part of the human body(e coli is fine in the bowel and even produces vitamin K for you, but can cause serious shít elsewhere). Not a lot of people realise that bacteria in your body outnumber the number of human cells by a factor of ten to one. Yep, that's not a typo. Because they're generally much smaller than human cells they don't take up as much room, but still, by weight you're looking at a couple of kilos of the boyos. Every time you have an oul poo, said poo is made up of 50% of bacteria from your gut. And there are lots of different species and strains too. One study found over a thousand different strains living in bellybuttons for feck sake and half of them were previously undescribed. There are well over a thousand different types in the gut, never mind your skin where there are a thousand more that happily live there. Quite a number of them help the immune system. They'll seek out other dangerous bacteria and kick their arses on our behalf. Each one of us has our own unique strains. We're like a walking talking rainforest environment of the little buggers. We've a symbiotic relationship with each other and they do a lot of work for us and we give them a nice warm gaff to kip in.

So then you take an antibiotic... Kinda buggers this environment up, hence people can have a bad dose of the liquid sitdowns after a course of them. The ones that come back may not come back in the right balance too. More baddies than goodies may survive. Sure if you're in actual need of an antibiotic it's a necessary evil, but for something minor? No thanks. Plus it's possible the very reason someone requires recurring antibiotic top ups is because they started down that road.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm a fan of antibiotics.. I've been regularly getting chest infections for as long as I can remember. One or two a year. I wait and wait for it to go away but after a couple of weeks, I resort back to them and it goes away.

I'd be more concerned as to why I was getting such re-occurrent chest infections. If I knew the underlying cause and that was just the way I was built, OK, but if I didn't...

JayEnnis wrote: »

In 100 years time we won't have the means to fight these new antibiotic resistant bacteria. It really is quite scary.

Try more like 10 years, indeed it's happening already.