Spectre (Bond 24)

omnithanos

Looks really good from the trailer and we're gonna get more Aston Martin eye candy. The song is ok. John Barry is missed though, his sweeping instrumentals were instantly recognisable.

BuilderPlumber

loyatemu wrote: »

IIRC Die Another Day was the highest grossing of Brosnan's outings, terrible though it was. It was a surprise he didn't do another.

In contrast Licence to Kill was a flop, and Dalton probably would have been sacked even if the Broccolis hadn't been tied up in years of legal disputes.

That is true. Die Another Day was one of the highest grossing Bond movies of all time. Maybe it was even the highest grossing up to this point. It also is imo the worst of the serious Bond films (the David Niven spoof of Casino Royale is much worse of course).

Licence to Kill was hardly a flop. I think it still was one of the top 10 highest grossing Bond movies of all time, which is a list that contains some of the best, some of the underrated and some of the worst Bonds of all time.

What affected LTK doing better was its release time in a particularly good year of similar movies. The first of Tim Burton's Batman films was the biggest film of that year, there was also an Indiana Jones movie and there was Back to the Future 3 and Lethal Weapon 2 (the best of this franchise). I'm sure there was something from Arnie and Sly as well, and I am probably leaving out other obvious ones.

Wedwood

License to Kill was ahead of its time in a lot of respects, however the change in tone from the previous movies was very jarring at the time. No John Barry score, no traditional mission, very little humour and very violent for its time. Similar to OHMSS, the passage of time is now being kinder to LTK.

I'm looking forward to Spectre as it looks like it'll be a blend of modern and traditional Bond movie elements. Hopefully John Barry's theme tune for OHMSS is in the actual movie and not just the trailer.

BuilderPlumber

Wedwood wrote: »

License to Kill was ahead of its time in a lot of respects, however the change in tone from the previous movies was very jarring at the time. No John Barry score, no traditional mission, very little humour and very violent for its time. Similar to OHMSS, the passage of time is now being kinder to LTK.

I'm looking forward to Spectre as it looks like it'll be a blend of modern and traditional Bond movie elements. Hopefully John Barry's theme tune for OHMSS is in the actual movie and not just the trailer.

LTK was one of the best and certainly the most different Bond film. It is also totally apolitical. Gone are the theme of the West and the Russians joining forces to neutralise a common enemy that started as a theme in The Spy Who Loved Me and continued right up to The Living Daylights. Bond in LTK is on a revenge mission for his friend, and with the drug dealer theme and the undercover status, it has the feel of Miami Vice. It was very violent for its time and is the most violent Bond to date.

Goldeneye was to me a bit letdown and was poor compared to Dalton's 2 excellent films. While TLD had some of the feels of a (good) Moore era Bond, LTK gave us pure Dalton Bond and it is exactly the approach Craig has now. Brosnan's 4 films (Tomorrow Never Dies being the best) were a step backwards and his last film Die Another Day was where the series nearly came to a halt.

SPECTRE looks good and seems to combine elements of the classic modern and older Bond films. Hopefully the OHMSS theme will be used.

OHMSS was a great Bond film too but was deemed too heavy for the time. It had the Love/Hate style ending akin to the scenes were Darren and Nidge were shot in the season 3 and 5 finales and perhaps was too daring to end a Bond movie on a sad note. The Bond films took a more lighter, even jokey route from then onwards. LTK was the first film to ditch this and return to a serious topic. Perhaps, the rebooted Bond will bring Bond and Blofeld into personal conflict and Blofeld may be responsible for the death of a loved one (perhaps, Vesper is the new Tracy).

loyatemu

long time since I've seen LTK, but my recollection is that it just didn't seem like a Bond movie, rather a generic 80s actioner. You could have put Arnie in the lead role and it would have been just like one of his films. I preferred Skyfall to Casino Royale because it was much more "Bondy" and they brought back some of the tropes from the earlier films, without making too ridiculous (yes, I'm looking at you Die another Day)

Padraig Mor

omnithanos wrote: »

Looks really good from the trailer and we're gonna get more Aston Martin eye candy. The song is ok. John Barry is missed though, his sweeping instrumentals were instantly recognisable.

Saw a trailer before Sicario last week and thought it looked absolutely cack altogether. Maybe that was an earlier trailer though?

BuilderPlumber

loyatemu wrote: »

long time since I've seen LTK, but my recollection is that it just didn't seem like a Bond movie, rather a generic 80s actioner. You could have put Arnie in the lead role and it would have been just like one of his films. I preferred Skyfall to Casino Royale because it was much more "Bondy" and they brought back some of the tropes from the earlier films, without making too ridiculous (yes, I'm looking at you Die another Day)

I think LTK was designed to be totally different to all the other Bond films. Certainly, the whole idea of this crazy villain opposed by both the West and the Russians with a plan to take over the world or extort money was ditched as was any formal assignment. Bond leaves the secret service and this brought a conclusion perhaps to this incarnation of Bond.

Of course, LTK seems to take onboard variants of other action thrillers and series of the day. The theme of pursuing a drug dealer in Florida in revenge is pure Miami Vice. It also echoes a lot of what was in Lethal Weapon. The part where Bond escapes from the drugs refinery and the places goes on fire and then there is a chase out of it is the conclusion of Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome. The subsequent chase scene with the trucks is like Mad Max 2. The shootouts often feel like Arnie's or Stallone's films.

I think all this was the intention. It was to get as far away as possible from Roger Moore's portrayal as Bond. It seems Moore may have still be considered early on for The Living Daylights: the escape in the cello in particular is pure Moore. This film was the transition film from one era to the other imo. Some Moore elements, some Dalton elements.

Skyfall and probably SPECTRE have reverted back to the feel of the traditional Bond films. Casino Royale was excellent and like LTK, it was quite violent and had the unique perspective of an up and coming Bond struggling to keep professional and personal judgments separate. I always wanted to see a return of Blofeld in a serious Bond film. His last 2 appearances as a cameo in For Your Eyes Only and as a jokey US gangster type in Diamonds are Forever did not really do him justice.

check_six

Just a bit of daydreaming here, but could you imagine how good On Her Majesty's Secret Service would have been with Connery on board.

Looking forward to Spectre next week.

eviltimeban

spannerwork wrote: »

I really miss John Barry's scores. I loved how his scores sampled from the theme song (the slow version of a View to a Kill is haunting). Nowadays, it seems that the Bond theme song and Bond movie score are completely separate entities.

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the Skyfall theme reoccured in the score a couple of times in that movie.

Zubeneschamali

Adjusted for inflation, the top 10 Bond movies are:

1 Thunderball
2 Goldfinger
3 Skyfall
5 Moonraker
6 Die Another Day
7 Tomorrow Never Dies
8 From Russia, with Love
9 Diamonds Are Forever
10 Casino Royale (2006)

Licence to Kill is dead last at #24, although the list does not include Niven's outing. Checking, Niven's Casino Royale would place in that top ten, maybe 5th.

loyatemu

Zubeneschamali wrote:

Licence to Kill is dead last at #24

I knew it was a flop :pac:

Gamb!t

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Adjusted for inflation, the top 10 Bond movies are:

1 Thunderball
2 Goldfinger
3 Skyfall
5 Moonraker
6 Die Another Day
7 Tomorrow Never Dies
8 From Russia, with Love
9 Diamonds Are Forever
10 Casino Royale (2006)

Licence to Kill is dead last at #24, although the list does not include Niven's outing. Checking, Niven's Casino Royale would place in that top ten, maybe 5th.

I thought Skyfall was only average,Licence to Kill and Living Delights deserve to be in the top 10 IMO.

Looper007

Gamb!t wrote: »

I thought Skyfall was only average,Licence to Kill and Living Delights deserve to be in the top 10 IMO.

Skyfall isn't average, a classic bond film. I think Dalton was a good Bond but his films didn't go all the way with the darker Bond for me. They are underrated but for me give me Skyfall over them both anyday of the week.

The Myth Of Sisyphus

Am I the only one who though QOS was as bas as Die Another Day?

The Myth Of Sisyphus

Am I the only one who though QOS was as bad as Die Another Day?

loyatemu

QOS remains the only Bond film I haven't seen - it got pretty weak reviews at the time. I assume it didn't have an invisible car or Madonna though so it can't be as bad as DAD.

pixelburp

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Adjusted for inflation, the top 10 Bond movies are:

1 Thunderball
2 Goldfinger
3 Skyfall
5 Moonraker
6 Die Another Day
7 Tomorrow Never Dies
8 From Russia, with Love
9 Diamonds Are Forever
10 Casino Royale (2006)

Licence to Kill is dead last at #24, although the list does not include Niven's outing. Checking, Niven's Casino Royale would place in that top ten, maybe 5th.

It's nice the #1 and #2 are both legitimately good Bond films in their own right, but ... Moonraker?? I'm guessing success there was off the back of that little-known movie that came out in '77. The one with the spaceships?

eyeball kid

The Myth Of Sisyphus wrote: »

Am I the only one who though QOS was as bad as Die Another Day?

I saw it but can't remember a single thing about it. Honestly, that film draws a complete blank for it.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Does anyone have any idea why this being released on a Monday?

Loughc

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Does anyone have any idea why this being released on a Monday?

Capitalising on the fact it's a bank holiday I suppose.

razorblunt

Loughc wrote: »

Capitalising on the fact it's a bank holiday I suppose.

The Friday before the BH would make more sense though wouldn't it?
There's no BH in the UK so is it just released then in Ireland?

Loughc

razorblunt wrote: »

The Friday before the BH would make more sense though wouldn't it?
There's no BH in the UK so is it just released then in Ireland?

Ah I've no idea why it's released Monday, the BH was merely a guess on my behalf.

BuilderPlumber

loyatemu wrote: »

QOS remains the only Bond film I haven't seen - it got pretty weak reviews at the time. I assume it didn't have an invisible car or Madonna though so it can't be as bad as DAD.

QOS is a very good action film. There is not much of a storyline. Like The Man With The Golden Gun, the 'villain' is really doing nothing. It is also a bit on the short side. But it is enjoyable and better than many of Brosnan's films especially Die Another Day or ones like The Man With The Golden Gun.

BuilderPlumber

Looper007 wrote: »

Skyfall isn't average, a classic bond film. I think Dalton was a good Bond but his films didn't go all the way with the darker Bond for me. They are underrated but for me give me Skyfall over them both anyday of the week.

For me, the best Bonds are:

Modern: Casino Royale 2006, Skyfall.
Old: Dr No, From Russia with Love, Goldfinger, Thunderball, You Only Live Twice, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, The Spy Who Loved Me, The Living Daylights, Licence to Kill.

The Rest:

Flawed but underrated generally good Bonds: Diamonds are Forver, Live and Let Die, For Your Eyes Only, Octopussy, Never Say Never Again, Goldeneye, Tomorrow Never Dies, Quantum of Solace.
Okay Bonds: Moonraker, A View To a Kill.
Poor Bonds: The Man With the Golden Gun, The World is Not Enough.
Very poor Bonds: Die Another Day.
Abysmal Bonds: Casino Royale 1967.

Goodshape

AFAIK, releasing on a Monday means they get a 7 day opening "weekend" and a 12 day opening "week".

Good figures for the headlines and guaranteed #1 spot in the box office. Although you'd imagine a Bond film shouldn't really have to worry about either.

ricero

when will the reviews be in ?

Skylinehead

The Myth Of Sisyphus wrote: »

Am I the only one who though QOS was as bad as Die Another Day?

It's nowhere near as bad as the abomination that is Die Another Day, lets not get silly!

In isolation, it's not great. Watch it right after Casino Royale (in a marathon) and it's a bit better - storylines tie in pretty well.

Gamb!t

Looper007 wrote: »

Skyfall isn't average, a classic bond film. I think Dalton was a good Bond but his films didn't go all the way with the darker Bond for me. They are underrated but for me give me Skyfall over them both anyday of the week.

It wouldnt make my top 10 Bond movies.

BuilderPlumber

I think Moonraker was in general nowhere nearly as 'bad' as some paint it. It has good action scenes, a classic Bond villain and is the same type of film as the more praised The Spy Who Loved Me. There are no more injokes in it than other Bonds and on second thoughts, I'd actually move it from okay Bonds to flawed but underrated generally good Bonds.

The issue of the main henchman of the bad guy turning good is interesting. He sees the light and understands there is better things to be doing with his life than being used and possibly underpaid and poorly treated by a psychopath. The same is repeat in A View To a Kill. Drax's desire for the perfect race echoes the original Fleming novel too where the plot was based on ex Nazis.

The weakest of Moore's films was The Man With The Golden Gun which had no real plot, not much action and a poor pretitle and climax. I wonder what the original proposal set in (the Pahlavi Shah's) Iran would have been like? It seemed this was abandoned and perhaps what we got just 1 year after Live And Let Die was too rushed?

FunLover18

Twitter reaction from critics (the ones I follow at least) isn't great. Not terrible by any means.