Do you support the Quinn family? (poll attached)

Pherekydes

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Can you explain to me the difference between Quinn hiding his assets from bankers and the government and the poll question?

"Would you hide yo9ur wealth from bankers and the government?"

He doesn't own the assets.

Noreen1

blackwhite wrote: »

This.

I think there are serious questions to be asked around the legality of the loans that were extended to buy the Anglo shares, but even if these were discounted the Quinn's are in the hock for €500m to IBRC, and by extension, to the taxpayer.

If they had surrendered whatever necessary to cover the €500m and then challenged the Anglo share loans then I'd have retained some small element of sympathy for them, but the bending over backwards to screw the taxpayer out of every last penny shows a large degree of contempt for everyone else, and a refusal to pay any price for their mistakes.


I don't have much time for those who try to blame the Quinn's for the current state of the economy, it was f***ed regardless. Blaming him for the €4bn is a bit of a smokescreen for Anglo's former management. They knew the shares were worthless, but still gave a loan secured on them - basically using Quinn as a patsy to set up a transfer of €4bn from Anglo (and ultimately the taxpayer) into the hands of the unidentified former shareholders who sold their shares to Quinn.....

None of this excuses what Quinn has done since then in trying to hide assets, and regardless of these loans he'd still be up the swannee for €500million of other debts.

They have challenged the share loans. For whatever reason, that case seems to be taking a lot longer to get to court than Anglos case against Quinn.

The second bolded bit, I agree with completely.

Finally, how much are the assets that Anglo have seized from Quinn to date, actually worth?
I keep hearing 2+ Billion, 4 Billion, and 500 million - but that would assume that Anglo have recovered nothing - and that's just not true.

Tom Joad

Nope don't support him and quite frankly am sick and tired pointing out to people that he doesn't have the undying unconditional support of most normal sane Cavan people..

sfwcork

wrote:

Noreen1
Registered User

.

The second bolded bit, I agree with completely.

Finally, how much are the assets that Anglo have seized from Quinn to date, actually worth?
I keep hearing 2+ Billion, 4 Billion, and 500 million - but that would assume that Anglo have recovered nothing - and that's just not true.

Sean Quinss wife and sons have challenged the IRBC over the loans.Not sean Quinn SNR

SafeSurfer

sfwcork wrote: »

then why dont You

come on teach us the error of our ways

Read the article and tell us the truth!

or is it the case that you dont have any rebuttle and just choose to ignore instead of facing up

I have read what you posted and there are a number of facts that I dispute.

My understanding is that:

1. The loan to Quinn from Anglo was to support Anglo's share price. This is illegal meaning that any personal guarantees or claims on assets to cover the loan are null and void.

2. The Maple 10 were not comprised of Sean Quinn's friends as you say but were a group put together by Anglo with the co operation of the minister for finance.

3. The civil case between Quinn and IBRC will be very interesting and will be as close to a banking enquiry as we are likely to get.

coolhull

[QUOTE=SafeSurfer;81629371

1. The loan to Quinn from Anglo was to support Anglo's share price. This is illegal meaning that any personal guarantees or claims on assets to cover the loan are null and void.

What a pity that Sean Quinn couldn't have afforded a solicitor to advice him that the stunt was illegal. I'm not a legal person or a businessman but even I could have smelled something rotten there.
And if it was illegal to offer the loan, was it not also illegal to accept it?

SafeSurfer

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Those who ran the bank are facing serious criminal charges, they too will have their day in court.

Are you aware that in the banks bailed out by the tax payer have head hunted some of the most senior members of the Garda corporate fraud squad?

Apart from frustrating the investigation into the banks how will this play out in court - former investigators giving evidence against their new employers?

sfwcork

I fail to understand a few points and so far I have yet to come across a quinn Licker that Can answer me

All i see or hear is that the books were cooked and that quinn was a businessman that flew by the seat of his pants so didnt always follow correct procedures

But what i fail to grasp are few points

1-If the books were cooked why have the EU not spotted it.The banks books are scrutinised heavily but yet the cooking hasnt been spotted?


How didQuinn spot the cooked books after the horse had passed the line?

If his investment had come out + would we be in this situation? considering the books are cooked

Korvanica

OP you should have made this poll public...

DARK-KNIGHT

Heard the Quinn family have downgraded cars from luxury sportscars to luxury Audi a8 diesel poor bastards!!

Can we see what users voted to support them?? Shame on whoever voted to support lol

To be fair the family members Sean transferred assets into their names should have been given custodial sentences as those actions were definitely criminal knowing what Sean senior was doing!!

I personally feel sorry for them I'm lucky if I have 100 euro to my name at months end while Quinn is down to his last half billion

SafeSurfer

sfwcork wrote: »

I fail to understand a few points and so far I have yet to come across a quinn Licker that Can answer me

All i see or hear is that the books were cooked and that quinn was a businessman that flew by the seat of his pants so didnt always follow correct procedures

But what i fail to grasp are few points

1-If the books were cooked why have the EU not spotted it.The banks books are scrutinised heavily but yet the cooking hasnt been spotted?


How didQuinn spot the cooked books after the horse had passed the line?

If his investment had come out + would we be in this situation? considering the books are cooked

Have a look at this article from the Irish Times. Ignore the part about the Spanish banking investigation getting further in 4 weeks than the Irish one has got in 4 years and look what it says about the Quinn/Anglo situation.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0709/1224319637090.html

The main point I would like to highlight is this:

This puts the State in something of a cleft stick. If it moves
now to bring prosecutions in relation to Anglo, it could have unintended and
very negative consequences for the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation (formerly
Anglo) and its efforts to recoup the €2.3 billion from the
Quinns.

The mere fact of bringing the case could lead to a delay of
months if not years in Anglo’s efforts to realise what it can from the Quinns.
And given that the State owns the IBRC, it would be tantamount to shooting
itself in the foot.

My point is that hearing the IBRC vs Quinn case, before the criminal case against Anglo or the civil case of Quinn vs Anglo is not only politically motivated but could backfire spectacularly, in costing the taxpayer millions and letting many guilty parties off the hook.

SafeSurfer

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Heard the Quinn family have downgraded cars from luxury sportscars to luxury Audi a8 diesel poor bastards!!

Can we see what users voted to support them?? Shame on whoever voted to support lol

To be fair the family members Sean transferred assets into their names should have been given custodial sentences as those actions were definitely criminal knowing what Sean senior was doing!!

I personally feel sorry for them I'm lucky if I have 100 euro to my name at months end while Quinn is down to his last half billion

I am happy to say I voted yes in the poll.

However my support is in the case that is before the courts at the moment. And I support them because I think they will win their case against Anglo, if it is ever heard and this will cost the Irish taxpayer more.

The Quinns and their companies should be thoroughly investigated for illegal activities regarding the insurance company, company expenses etc, etc. And if they are jailed as a result of those investigations I would have no problem with that.

But the case before the courts at the moment, that has resulted in Sean Quinn junior and senior being jailed and a highly controversial Russian firm being awarded a €155 million contract is a politically motivated sideshow.

donalg1

Hogzy wrote: »

To the people who support them:

What the f*ck is wrong with you?

I want to thank this post more than once, is that possible?

Korvanica

donalg1 wrote: »

I want to thank this post more than once, is that possible?

Just thank all the posters recent posts

SafeSurfer

Can I ask does any body honestly believe that Seanie Fitzpatrick or any of the others involved in the banking collapse will be jailed?

sfwcork

would you mind answeing my questions safesurfer?

sfwcork

answering even

Death and Taxes

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Can I ask does any body honestly believe that Seanie Fitzpatrick or any of the others involved in the banking collapse will be jailed?

I suppose that depends on if they lie to the court, fail to obey court orders, and travel the country spouting ****e ob every two bit culchie local radio station about how victimised they are!
Quinn is in jail because he committed a blatent contempt of court, that is as it shoud be.

SafeSurfer

sfwcork wrote: »

I fail to understand a few points and so far I have yet to come across a quinn Licker that Can answer me

All i see or hear is that the books were cooked and that quinn was a businessman that flew by the seat of his pants so didnt always follow correct procedures

But what i fail to grasp are few points

1-If the books were cooked why have the EU not spotted it.The banks books are scrutinised heavily but yet the cooking hasnt been spotted?


How didQuinn spot the cooked books after the horse had passed the line?

If his investment had come out + would we be in this situation? considering the books are cooked

1. I dont understand your question. (a) The EU isn't looking at Anglo's books. (b) The "cooking" of the books has been spotted.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/4593647/Scandal-hit-Anglo-Irish-charged-with-cooking-the-books.html#

http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2010/09/03/is-anglo-cooking-the-books-or-how-can-anglo-claim-that-two-thirds-of-its-non-nama-loans-are-unimpaired-when-there-was-no-repayment-of-capital-on-any-non-nama-loans-for-the-first-six-months-of-2010/

2. The fraud at Anglo came to light after the collapse.

3. I believe that the share price collapse was inevitable so the question of who owned the shares was irrelevant.

donalg1

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Can I ask does any body honestly believe that Seanie Fitzpatrick or any of the others involved in the banking collapse will be jailed?

Well that depends if they are found guilty of contempt of court as was Sean Quinn. Or are you part of the brigade that believe he shouldnt be in jail now because someone somewhere has committed a worse crime. And the justice system should find the worst offenders first and work their way through the criminal cases based on some sliding scale of crimes.

SafeSurfer

donalg1 wrote: »

Well that depends if they are found guilty of contempt of court as was Sean Quinn. Or are you part of the brigade that believe he shouldnt be in jail now because someone somewhere has committed a worse crime. And the justice system should find the worst offenders first and work their way through the criminal cases based on some sliding scale of crimes.

No, I would like to see the issue of the legality of the loans being dealt with before the issue of their collection is dealt with, which seems reasonable to me.

donalg1

SafeSurfer wrote: »

No, I would like to see the issue of the legality of the loans being dealt with before the issue of their collection is dealt with, which seems reasonable to me.

Well as someone who has to pay extra on their insurances (home, car, health) for the next 20 years the issues above dont concern me when thinking about whether or not I support Quinn. I dont support him at all and never will regardless of the legalities of loans, he is a gambler who lost and now wants all of us to pick up his tab.

I was delighted he got sent to jail for contempt of court, his actions showed how arrogant he is and how he assumes himself to be above the law and everyone else. Do you think he cares we are paying for his mistakes? ( does he f*ck) I only wish they had locked him up and thrown away the key.

SafeSurfer

donalg1 wrote: »

Well as someone who has to pay extra on their insurances (home, car, health) for the next 20 years the issues above dont concern me when thinking about whether or not I support Quinn. I dont support him at all and never will regardless of the legalities of loans, he is a gambler who lost and now wants all of us to pick up his tab.

My point is that the legality of these loans should be of concern to all of us. I don't like having to pay extra for my insurance and I would not like to have to pay extra tax to cover restitution, compensation etc to Quinn if the Anglo loans are judged illegal and unrecoverable.

Ash.J.Williams

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

I have wished only bad things for Quinn for many a year.

why?

Ash.J.Williams

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Can I ask does any body honestly believe that Seanie Fitzpatrick or any of the others involved in the banking collapse will be jailed?

no they won't, they should castrated though.

tim9002

SafeSurfer wrote: »

No, I would like to see the issue of the legality of the loans being dealt with before the issue of their collection is dealt with, which seems reasonable to me.

Yes this is reasonable. But in the meantime when the courts tell you not to put assets out of the reach of your creditors and you ignore the instructions of the courts then off to jail you go!

Noreen1

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Can I ask does any body honestly believe that Seanie Fitzpatrick or any of the others involved in the banking collapse will be jailed?

I believe that, at best, they may get a token slap on the wrist.

I suspect that Seanie et al have too much information that the powers that be would rather Joe Public didn't hear.
Getting Sean Quinn out of the way would help limit the amount of information available to us. Leaving people penniless and unable to access the best prosecution or defence lawyers is a pretty effective way of silencing them.

The truth is that the wage bill at IBRC has cost us a hell of a lot more than Sean Quinn has, to date.
That's before we take account of the big fat pensions the authors of our financial destruction are still enjoying.
Personally, I'd love to see their contracts of employment.
It has already been conceded that Anglo engaged in "cooking" the balance sheet. In any normal Company, that's gross misconduct - and is punishable by instant dismissal. The question is, what were the terms of the employment contract re: gross misconduct and pension rights, and is that why senior management resigned rather than being dismissed?

Big Bottom

They did create lots of jobs for people.

Wouldnt everyone want to hide their money away before its taken off them?

You can bet none of them Bankers will go down for what they did.

More power to them I say.

oldyouth

Gobsmacked that 67 Cavan people here have paid for internet connection

coolhull

Big Bottom wrote: »

They did create lots of jobs for people.

Wouldnt everyone want to hide their money away before its taken off them?

You can bet none of them Bankers will go down for what they did.

More power to them I say.

Well, BB,it looks like 1 in 10 people agree with you.
The rest of us, the other 90%, are all eejits who don't break the law if possible