Fernando Torres

Leiva

Continuing on from a discussion last night I think this deserves its own thread...

I think Torres time in the Premier League is quickly coming to an end as the guy looks miserable. It looks like he will never reach the heights and prolific goal scoring Chelsea wished for, as its coming on two years now and he has failed to hit any real form.

In his time at Liverpool his first 56 appearances gave him a goal total of 39 'vs' the 11 for Chelsea over the same amount of games to date.

He was never going to hit them figures again, even with the better players around him at Chelsea,but I don't think anyone imagined it would be so dismal.

The guy can still score (don't get me wrong) but for me it's a combination of the wrong move, wrong system and probably still a bit in love with LFC that has contributed to his demise.

I wouldn't mind having him back at Liverpool to see if we could spark something in him again, but at this stage its a risk that is way too pricey in our current state.

I hope for the fella that he gets out of the PL and maybe back to Spain asap as it like looking at an ex in a bad place.

Neil3030

and probably still a bit in love with LFC

There's deluded, and there's LFC. Honest to christ... :rolleyes:

Morzadec

It's a difficult one. The move to Chelsea has made it very very difficult for him to leave.

Chelsea would have to take a massive hit in terms of their outlay, and he would have to take a massive wage cut.

I can't see many teams (except perhaps an Anzhi or PSG or a team like this with bottomless funds, trying to raise their profile) offering more than a £10m transfer fee and wages of about £80,000 a week.

This makes it very very difficult to facilitate a move for him.

The only potential move could be as part of a Chelsea deal for Falcao. Atleti would stomach his departure far better if their golden boy came home. Likewise Chelsea might forget about the massive loss on Torres when they have arguably the world's best number 9 coming in.

And for Torres he might well be willing to take a huge cut in his wages to go back to his boyhood club who should probably be playing in the Champions League next season.

So maybe £30m plus Torres for Falcao is an arrangement that could benefit all parties.

Otherwise I see no possible way out for Torres.

Seemed towards the end of last season and the beginning of this one that he might be on the way back to somewhere near his best but that doesn't look too likely judging by his performances lately.

A change of club might do him good.

Back to Athletico and Falcao coming the other way perhaps..

SlickRic

it's a combination of things.

the role he's asked to play for Chelsea is quite different to the one he played for Liverpool.

at Liverpool he was quite blatantly asked to just run and shoot, get on the end of things, and not worry much about linking play. at Chelsea he's being asked to be a far more "complete" centre forward.

also, the system he's playing in is not designed to get him a lot of goals. it's designed to create space for Hazard, Mata and Oscar.

physically, he's also not the athlete he used to be. he's lost much his speed and elasticity.

and, of course, he doesn't really care about the club he plays for. he's there because he wants to win stuff, which is fair enough, but he doesn't have the same fire in his belly he once did.

it all contributes to being less effective.

mike65

Torres jumped ship in a panic for a huge price and expectation, those factors do seem to have weighed very heavily on his mind. I wouldn't be surprised if he left Chelsea for a berth back at Atletico next summer. They are going great guns but will probably lose Falcao to a mega offer from Chelsea/City/Real so as a part replacement Torres might be welcome back.

MD1990

i think he's period at Liverpool he just hit a streak & was getting great supply by Gerrard
he has nearly always been poor for Spain including Euro 2008 when his final winning goal masked over his poor performances at the competition
he was never that prolific for Athletico either
i certaintly wouldn't want him back an Anfield
he thought he was too good for the club & look how it turned out for him at Chelsea

AnCapaillMor

To be honest he wasn't too hot in the last 6 months of his liverpool career except when he came up against vidic.

Chucky the tree

AnCapaillMor wrote: »

To be honest he wasn't too hot in the last 6 months of his liverpool career except when he came up against vidic.

Having a clown like Hodgson as his manager didn't help.

MD1990

MD1990 wrote: »

i think he's period at Liverpool he just hit a streak & was getting great supply by Gerrard
he has nearly always been poor for Spain including Euro 2008 when his final winning goal masked over his poor performances at the competition
he was never that prolific for Athletico either
i certaintly wouldn't want him back an Anfield
he thought he was too good for the club & look how it turned out for him at Chelsea

You're not giving him too much credit there.

He was outstanding at Liverpool. Benitez played to his strengths brilliantly.

I'm not so sure he'd fit into the Rodgers style of play and anyway Liverpool couldn't afford the outlay on him, plus he's not the player he was.

Neil3030

Neil3030 wrote: »

There's deluded, and there's LFC. Honest to christ... :rolleyes:

Yeah sure lump us all into the deluded category. Fantastic contribution to what is a decent topic.

mike65

Scored 9 goals for Hodgson/Dalglish or 1 in 2.4 games.

Rekop dog

Think the passion for the game is gone and once it goes it's very tough to ever regain. He's like your classic Brazilian in a Spaniards body. Still earning silly amounts of money that his form last few years doesn't in any way deserve so fair play on that count.

Neil3030

rarnes1 wrote: »

Yeah sure lump us all into the deluded category. Fantastic contribution to what is a decent topic.

I don't think I've tarred everyone with the same brush, at least that was not my intention. I was simply suggesting a very club specific trait, obviously not one which all fans need subscribe.

FearDark

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Having a clown like Hodgson as his manager didn't help.

When was the last time Liverpool didn't have a clown steering the ship?!

_blank_

FearDark wrote: »

When was the last time Liverpool didn't have a clown steering the ship?!

yesterday, and since Rodge'rs took over.

Chucky the tree

FearDark wrote: »

When was the last time Liverpool didn't have a clown steering the ship?!

OMG lolzzz!!!!111!!

aidan24326

Saying he's unhappy or unsettled at Chelsea is merely papering over the fact that he just doesn't look like a top player anymore, and hasn't done for about two years now.

If he doesn't find some form this season I could see Chelsea selling him in the Summer even if it is at a huge loss. They'll hardly get more than about 10-12 million for him at this stage.

Leiva

Neil3030 wrote: »

There's deluded, and there's LFC. Honest to christ... :rolleyes:

Whatever !

Im not the first to suggest that his move to Chelsea wasn't what he expected, and when compared to his time at Liverpool that he still holds a torch for his former club which may have effected his head.

Also i found this recent comment interesting...

Gianfranco Zola (Chelsea Legend) on Fernando Torres:
"He has good spirit, but he doesn't love Chelsea, you can buy his service but you can never buy his love for Liverpool."

Oul Zola must be deluded as well.

Neil3030

Neil3030 wrote: »

I don't think I've tarred everyone with the same brush, at least that was not my intention. I was simply suggesting a very club specific trait, obviously not one which all fans need subscribe.

Fair enough.

I think you'll find fans from every club ha fans with wild imaginations.

Super-Rush

Torres is finished.

Played his best football for Liverpool and went downhill rapidly when he moved.

Do i want him back?

No.

homerjay2005

his form had dropped considerably long long before he signed for Chelsea, yet people seem to ignore this.

nothing to do with systems, formation or players, he started to lose everything around 2010 and has not recovered since. can he recover it? probably needs to leave them to be honest and move back to Spain.

Blatter

He has 6 goals from 16 appearances in total this season, 4 in 10 PL games.

It's not the worst record tbf, certainly a far better ratio than the rest of his time at Chelsea. He looks good in some games and then in others he's anonymous. But still, the ratio is close to 1 in 2 which is never bad.

Let's see what his record is like come Christmas.

NabyLadistheman

The thing about Torres is when he was at LFC the club was built around him. Rafa had the team set-up to play to his strengths and he thrived. The fan's built him up to be a god and he played care-free & full of confidence. He was LFC for the few years he was there.

When he moved to CFC he was just another player in a squad full of super-stars. His form suffered and after being reduced to a bit part player last season his confidence in tatters. I think he will be sold back to Spain in the summer where hopefully he re-ignite his career

kippy

The thing, that people tend to forget, including some on this thread, is that he was going downhill before he left Liverpool.
His career has definitely suffered with the amount, type and timing of injuries he has had and in my opinion that came to a head at Liverpool in the months before he left.
He does appear to have lost a certain edge to his game, explosive pace being it and I think either psychologically (for fear of doing another injury) or physically (because his injuries) this has effected his game immensely.

When Chelsea paid 50 million for his services to Liverpool I laughed at them, really I did, and I applauded Liverpool for getting so much money for an asset that had gone past its best. Probably the best transfer deal in history for the selling club, being honest.

He's still a decent player and one has to say his transfer fee is not his fault but ultimately that is what he will be measured on. Were any club able to pick him up for 10-15 million he'd be a great buy.

Chucky the tree

homerjay2005 wrote: »

his form had dropped considerably long long before he signed for Chelsea, yet people seem to ignore this.

nothing to do with systems, formation or players, he started to lose everything around 2010 and has not recovered since. can he recover it? probably needs to leave them to be honest and move back to Spain.

His form only dropped when Hodgson was in charge, apart from that his goalscoring was excellent. In 09/10 for Rafas last season he score 18 goals in 22 league games. For Kenny he scored 3 goals in 4 league games.

kippy

Chucky the tree wrote: »

His form only dropped when Hodgson was in charge, apart from that his goalscoring was excellent. In 09/10 for Rafas last season he score 18 goals in 22 league games. For Kenny he scored 3 goals in 4 league games.

So you're blaming the manager?

MUSEIST

Torres is a strange one at chelsea. He works very hard for the team and is a real team player but he is fairly shocking in front of goal. His stats for this season are 'meh'. He always seems to take too many touches and becomes unsure of what he's doing, at liverpool he seemed to shoot from every angle without even thinking and naturally the goals came for him.


He is doing ok for chelsea but if a 35million + torres for falcao swap is on the cards then brilliant.

Chucky the tree

kippy wrote: »

So you're blaming the manager?

For his drop in form at Liverpool yes, for his current slump it's more than that.

norrie rugger

kippy wrote: »

When Chelsea paid 50 million for his services to Liverpool I laughed at them, really I did, and I applauded Liverpool for getting so much money for an asset that had gone past its best. Probably the best transfer deal in history for the selling club, being honest.

And then they bought Carroll

Xavi6

It's Roy's fault, no other possible explanation.

He's also responsible for the recession, Hurricane Sandy and anything else that can be pinned on him.

Where was he when Lennon was shot?

Knex*

Xavi6 wrote: »

It's Roy's fault, no other possible explanation.

He's also responsible for the recession, Hurricane Sandy and anything else that can be pinned on him.

Where was he when Lennon was shot?

Himself and Suarez have a lot to answer for....

His form at Liverpool was a direct result of Hodgson.

NabyLadistheman

2 pages before Andy Carroll got a mention! Not bad

SlickRic

homerjay2005 wrote: »

his form had dropped considerably long long before he signed for Chelsea, yet people seem to ignore this.

nothing to do with systems, formation or players, he started to lose everything around 2010 and has not recovered since.

that year. 2010. hmmm. something else happened that year.

some much-maligned former Liverpool manager, who is regarded as nothing more than an idiot by many rival fans left that year, didn't he?! shít...I can't remember his name. remind me...

i remember being told ad-nauseum that Torres couldn't stand him and wanted out of the club because of him though, despite it being the most prolific goalscoring return of his whole career by far. honestly though, his name has escaped me.

he was the guy who Torres has since credited as being the major reason why he became as prolific as he did in a Liverpool shirt.

he was Spanish, looked like a waiter, and was a bit tubby according to rivals.

oh yeah, his name was Rafa wasn't it? that shít manager who "allegedly" fell out with all the star players at the club.

machiavellianme

Xavi6 wrote: »

It's Roy's fault, no other possible explanation.

He's also responsible for the recession, Hurricane Sandy and anything else that can be pinned on him.

Where was he when Lennon was shot?

Hopefully holding the gun...

5starpool

I wish this thread wasn't started just before the game against Liverpool ffs. Guaranteed hat trick now for him.

Chucky the tree

Xavi6 wrote: »

It's Roy's fault, no other possible explanation.

He's also responsible for the recession, Hurricane Sandy and anything else that can be pinned on him.

Where was he when Lennon was shot?

Under Rafa 09/10 - 18 goals 22 league games
Under Roy 2010 Sept - December - 6 goals 19 league games
Under Kenny 2011 January - 3 goals in 4 league games.


Of course his form didn't dip when Roy was manager, what a crazy suggestion.:pac:

Yakult

Torres should never have left the Kop or at least not half way through the damn season. That's what pisses me off about it. If he had waited until the summer I would probably have some inkling of respect for him still but the way it panned out, I have none. Nor do I have sympathy for him. I hope he is happy with the trophies the team around him won, after all that's what he probably wanted.

Back to Spain I reckon and maybe he might find his feet again but he needs to get out of Chelsea soon, because time is not on his side.

Fowler87

Few factors probably in his demise but not playing with Gerrard anymore has to be one of the main ones

kippy

Yakult wrote: »

Torres should never have left the Kop or at least not half way through the damn season. That's what pisses me off about it. If he had waited until the summer I would probably have some inkling of respect for him still but the way it panned out, I have none. Nor do I have sympathy for him. I hope he is happy with the trophies the team around him won, after all that's what he probably wanted.

Back to Spain I reckon and maybe he might find his feet again but he needs to get out of Chelsea soon, because time is not on his side.

Is he that bothered though?

Macca07

Fowler87 wrote: »

Few factors probably in his demise but not playing with Gerrard anymore has to be one of the main ones

Because Hazard and Mata are only average at best...

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Fowler87

Macca07 wrote: »

Because Hazard and Mata are only average at best...

Nothing to do with that. Top players they are but certain players find specific understanding of each others game and Gerrard was that for Torres. Stats don't lie either..

kippy

Fowler87 wrote: »

Nothing to do with that. Top players they are but certain players find specific understanding of each others game and Gerrard was that for Torres. Stats don't lie either..

So nothing to do with injuries?

Fowler87

kippy wrote: »

So nothing to do with injuries?

Persistant injuries with Liverpool too so maybe they are taking its toll at this stage of his career. But he always found consistent goal scoring form again.

Hulk Hands

He's been bad since prior to the 2010 World Cup,probably due to injuries catching up with him. He was poor in his last 18 months with Liverpool, and them getting 50 million for him was ridiculously good business. I remember being shouted down for having that opinion at the time. It's nothing to do with love or passion or desire or whatever other crap people like to spout, these are professional sports men paid to do a job, not intermediate hurlers. He simply lost his yard of pace that set him aside from other strikers, and in turn lost his confidence. Domino effect from there

missingtime

A combination of things have resulted in Torres' decline in form. Persistent injuries and the sacking of Benitez and his team. And in particular a guy call Xabi Valero.

Fernando Torres praises goalkeeping coach Xavi Valero
Jun 6 2008


by Christopher Beesley, Liverpool Daily Post


OE of Liverpool’s big success stories from overseas, Fernando Torres, who netted 33 goals in his debut season at Anfield, has revealed that a lot of his success is down to an unfamiliar source – Liverpool goalkeeping coach Xavi Valero..

“We’ve a Spanish goalkeeping coach and he has been a genius at telling me every week exactly what kind of task lies in front of me in the following match,” said Torres.

“Nobody has ever worked with me like this before. It’s outstanding. Basically, I know days before the next game exactly the best way to finish a chance against the keeper I’m about to face.

"Xavi Valero tells me precisely what each keeper tends to do – stay big, go down early, if they have a preferred side they try to push you to. It’s vital information. I’ve refined the way I take chances as a result.”

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=fernando-torres-praises-goalkeeping-coach-xavi-valero&method=full&objectid=21033722&siteid=50061-name_page.html

Dante

People are missing the main reason as to why his form has dropped so rapidly over the past two years, and its actually blindingly obvious. Its simply because he cut his hair. Back when he had glorious long blonde hair he was banging them in for the pool left right and center, and was arguably the best striker in the league. Then, for some crazy reason, in mid 2010 he decided to cut his hair considerably shorter. Almost immediately his form went into decline, spiraling downward to the point of no return.

While some argue that this is pure coincidence, one only has to look at the statistics to see the clear correlation. Based on various newspaper articles online, Torres defaced his hair in late May 2010, essentially at the end of the 2009-10 season. Up until that point, Torres had a remarkable scoring record, bagging 24 goals in 33 league games in the 2007-08 during his debut season, 14 goals in 24 league games in his second season, and a further 18 goals in 22 games in the 2009-10 season. This gave him an impressive pre-haircut premier league goal-to-game ratio of 1.4 (79/56).

Almost immediately after this, the goals began to dry up as did his confidence. In the season following the onslaught of his hair, which I will now refer to as 'the incident', he only managed a mere 9 goals in 23 league games which, while still a respectable tally, really didn't live up to the high standards set over his previous three seasons. Add to that his poor performance for Spain at the 2010 World Cup, some early alarm bells were beginning to ring. Unfortunately for Chelsea, they did not hear these bells and signed Fernando in January 2011 for an insane amount of money, enough for him to get all the haircuts and hair extensions in the world. It wasn't enough however for him to regain his confidence and form, as things quickly went from bad to worse. During his first half season with Chelsea he struggled to find the net scoring only once in 14 premier league games, which I believe is solely attributable to him still mourning over the loss of his once magnificent long golden locks. By the end of the 2011-12 season, he scored a pathetic 7 goals in 46 league appearances. While things have improved very very slightly this season, with 4 goals in 10 league games, he is undoubtedly still a shadow of his former self. This is clearly highlighted by his post-haircut premier league goal-to-game ratio, which increased dramatically from the impressive pre-haircut ratio 1.4 to a painful 5.1 (56/11). I just want to highlight the severity of these figures in simpler terms, this means that he now only scores a goal every 5 games since 'the incident' as opposed a goal every 1.4 games which he enjoyed during his glory years. Coincidence? I think not.

So there you have it, I hope you will all now agree that it wasn't his deep love of Liverpool nor the weight of a ridiculously high transfer fee on his shoulders that lead to his steady deterioration in form, it was simply due to the catastrophic mistake of cutting his hair, the source of all his power and skill.

GavRedKing

DaaaaaaaaaaN wrote: »

People are missing the main reason as to why his form has dropped so rapidly over the past two years, and its actually blindingly obvious. Its simply because he cut his hair. Back when he had glorious long blonde hair he was banging them in for the pool left right and center, and was arguably the best striker in the league. Then, for some crazy reason, in mid 2010 he decided to cut his hair considerably shorter. Almost immediately his form went into decline, spiraling downward to the point of no return.

While some argue that this is pure coincidence, one only has to look at the statistics to see the clear correlation. Based on various newspaper articles online, Torres defaced his hair in late May 2010, essentially at the end of the 2009-10 season. Up until that point, Torres had a remarkable scoring record, bagging 24 goals in 33 league games in the 2007-08 during his debut season, 14 goals in 24 league games in his second season, and a further 18 goals in 22 games in the 2009-10 season. This gave him an impressive pre-haircut premier league goal-to-game ratio of 1.4 (79/56).

Almost immediately after this, the goals began to dry up as did his confidence. In the season following the onslaught of his hair, which I will now refer to as 'the incident', he only managed a mere 9 goals in 23 league games which, while still a respectable tally, really didn't live up to the high standards set over his previous three seasons. Add to that his poor performance for Spain at the 2010 World Cup, some early alarm bells were beginning to ring. Unfortunately for Chelsea, they did not hear these bells and signed him in January 2011 for an insane amount of money, enough for him to get all the haircuts and hair extensions in the world. It wasn't enough however for him to regain his confidence and form, as things quickly went from bad to worse. During his first half season with Chelsea he struggled to find the net scoring only once in 14 premier league games, which I believe is solely attributable to him still mourning over the loss of his once magnificent long golden locks. By the end of the 2011-12 season, he scored a pathetic 7 goals in 46 league appearances. While things have improved very very slightly this season, with 4 goals in 10 league games, he is undoubtedly still a shadow of his former self. This is clearly highlighted by his post-haircut premier league goal-to-game ratio, which increased dramatically from the impressive pre-haircut ratio 1.4 to a painful 5.1 (56/11). I just want to highlight the severity of these figures in simpler terms, this means that he now only scores a goal every 5 games since 'the incident' as opposed a goal every 1.4 games which he enjoyed during his glory years. Coincidence? I think not.

So there you have it, I hope you will all now agree that it wasn't his deep love of Liverpool nor the weight of a ridiculously high transfer fee on his shoulders that lead to his steady deterioration in form, it was simply due to the catastrophic mistake of cutting his hair, the source of all his power and skill.

Time for Roman to fork out for some extensions and a bottle of hair dye so and not €50 million on Falcao.

Sorted.

hefferboi

Xavi6 wrote: »

It's Roy's fault, no other possible explanation.

He's also responsible for the recession, Hurricane Sandy and anything else that can be pinned on him.

Where was he when Lennon was shot?

You're mixing Roy with Suarez there.

Dante

GavRedKing wrote: »

Time for Roman to fork out for some extensions and a bottle of hair dye so and not €50 million on Falcao.

Sorted.

Maybe so, you can't argue with such concrete facts. Hopefully its not too late...