Is The Irish Times Going Tabloid?

Son Of A Vidic

Stinicker wrote: »

The Independent is nothing but a rag and a Fianna Fail mouthpiece, I would not even use it as toilet paper.

So basically it's the same as the Times, but from a different perspective.

markesmith

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Its too liberal for boards :eek: I said it!

I don't pay much heed to the Indo, but the Sindo is a glorified D4 glam z-celeb newsletter with some titillating shots of Chesty Morahan for when you take it to the 'WC'

For Forks Sake

iDave wrote: »

Big plans for Nov 5!!!!
are they planning on blowing up parliament?

Sketch lads, we've been rumbled...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8UtojJT8ts

Aodh Rua

markesmith wrote: »

I disagree with this, the Irish Times is a quality newspaper. The industry is trying to evolve, but I think the IT has kept it's integrity.

Kate. Never forgotten. Go ndéana Dia trócaire ar a hanam dílis.

The Irish Times and the Prone/Savage family reached a nadir in their respective histories when they abused their power regarding the death of that young lady. As a lifelong Irish Times reader, until a comprehensive apology is made to the Fitzgerald family, the Irish Times and the Irish Times Trust belies the integrity and honour which it generally has had since Douglas Gageby became editor in 1963. It is the best newspaper in Ireland, but as the competition is Independent Newspapers that isn't hard. Only when The Irish Times brings closure to the Fitzgerald family will it begin to reclaim its position as one of Europe's best quality papers. It still lacks the courage to do the right thing. This is a shameful and saddening abuse of power.

Kate Fitzgerald (1986-2011)

upandcumming

The Sparrow wrote: »

Anyone who still has any time for The IT should have a read of this:

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/06/05/kate-fitzgerald-and-the-irish-times-apology-to-the-communications-clinic-the-press-council-decision/

They paper acted disgracefully last year and basically branded a suicide victim as a liar after the company she worked for complained about an anonymous article that she wrote before she died. After her death the IT named her and then subsequently first amended her article and then then issued an apology accusing her of lying but offering no proof of that.

It was disgusting how they treated Kate Fitzgerald and her family following her death and were willing to bend over backwards due to the threat of legal action from The Communications Clinic.

The paper will need to do a whole lot more than just change it's size to convince me to ever buy it again.

Just because she was a suicide victim doesn't mean she wasn't a liar.

juan.kerr

Stinicker wrote: »

The Independent is nothing but a rag and a Fianna Fail mouthpiece, I would not even use it as toilet paper.

Just as well. I think you can get bum cancer from the ink.

planetX

I haven't bought a newspaper for years, but IT is best of a bad lot - however if I'm in a cafe I always pick up the Indo instead so I don't make a show of myself with pages everywhere and stuff falling off the table. I would prefer a tabloid Irish times... still wouldn't buy it tho:o

Toby Take a Bow

In addition to the Kate Fitzgerald fiasco, there's a distinct lack of investigative journalism, too many articles from other (better) newspapers, too many troll columnists and too many economists who were so completely misguided about the economic 'boom' that serious questions remain when not only are they still employed by the IT but they still feel qualified to spout on and on about current economic policies.

The whole refit reminds me a bit of deckchairs on the titanic.

juan.kerr

Does the refit involve dropping John Waters?

Any word on when Tom Humphries will be back?

Mr Cumulonimbus

It's going to be narrower according to the IT's own piece.

IceFjoem

One thing that really irritates me is the one sided, pro Israel stance held by the IT. The Palestinian - Israel conflict is not exactly black and white and horrific things are committed by both sides, but the IT blatantly avoid the moral issues of Zionism and you can forget about objective discussion of Israeli War Crimes.

buyer95

amen wrote: »

The Irish Times. A great daily read from the paper of record. Good indepth coverage of the main issues in Ireland and abroad with real journalists on the ground.

Its a great boardsheet and I hope they keep the current format.

Thank you Kevin O'Sullivan

Logical_Bear

IceFjoem wrote: »

One thing that really irritates me is the one sided, pro Israel stance held by the IT. The Palestinian - Israel conflict is not exactly black and white and horrific things are committed by both sides, but the IT blatantly avoid the moral issues of Zionism and you can forget about objective discussion of Israeli War Crimes.

never read any of robert fisks articles??

Marcusm

juan.kerr wrote: »

Any word on when Tom Humphries will be back?

I think there are a few processes to go through before that would come on the radar....

take everything

Aswerty wrote: »

I'd agree but it's opinion columns are often as bad as anything you'd find in the indo. Waters' articles are some of the worst stuff in print media. Also with the passing of Crossaire I haven't enjoyed and don't click with the new cryptic crosswords.

Much of Waters' stuff is execrable.
Fintan O' Toole is always interesting though.

caste_in_exile

Is that the paper that is running an advert claiming to have "the secret to happiness" in its next edition

finisklin

take everything wrote: »

Fintan O' Toole is always interesting though.

His moral compass does capture the heart of the nation. Pity that it's largely met with indifference by its readership.

inmyday

caste_in_exile wrote: »

Is that the paper that is running an advert claiming to have "the secret to happiness" in its next edition

Nah, thats the Sunday independent.

IceFjoem

Logical_Bear wrote: »

never read any of robert fisks articles??

Didn't realize he wrote for the Irish Times?! :eek:

The Sparrow

upandcumming wrote: »

Just because she was a suicide victim doesn't mean she wasn't a liar.

No but surely the paper had a duty of care to her reputation since they were the ones that went out of their way to identify her. She submitted an anonymous article and it was the IT that decided to name her following her death. Then they first tried to amend her article on their website which was basically changing the words of a dead girl and then they called her a liar knowing that her family would have no legal recourse or avenue to challenge them.

At no point have the Irish Times ever presented any evidence that anything in the original article was factually untrue even though the family have repeatedly called for this evidence to be published or made available to them. And if you read the original anonymous article, much of it was about Kate Fitzgerald's personal experience of working in The Communications Clinic. So I find it difficult to accept that The Irish Times could establish that some of what she wrote was not factual without being able to speak to her directly.

And that's not even going into the fact that other former employees have made similar allegations against The Communications Clinic.

I agree that just because someone is a suicide victim it doesn't mean that they cannot be a liar. However, I would also contend that The Irish Times would never have printed that apology if she was still alive and that is just wrong. If a so called paper of record is willing to completely shaft a young suicide victim without presenting a shred of evidence you have to question their ethical stance on every issue.

strandroad

The Sparrow wrote: »

I agree that just because someone is a suicide victim it doesn't mean that they cannot be a liar. However, I would also contend that The Irish Times would never have printed that apology if she was still alive and that is just wrong. If a so called paper of record is willing to completely shaft a young suicide victim without presenting a shred of evidence you have to question their ethical stance on every issue.

Exactly; much better said than I would say it but this is the gist of the issue.

billybudd

upandcumming wrote: »

Just because she was a suicide victim doesn't mean she wasn't a liar.

ahh like so often with the IT and you obviously, lacking facts but comment anyway.

smurfs5

I used to like the IT but it's just awful now IMO. I love The Guardian- a fantastic newspaper which covers a variety of topics and interests and its opinion pieces are brilliantly written, as are all of the articles by the journalists.
The Irish industry needs more competition as the Independent and IT are seemingly unrivalled.
I wish something like the i is produced here, a really cheap newspaper with proper content.

upandcumming

The Sparrow wrote: »

No but surely the paper had a duty of care to her reputation since they were the ones that went out of their way to identify her. She submitted an anonymous article and it was the IT that decided to name her following her death. Then they first tried to amend her article on their website which was basically changing the words of a dead girl and then they called her a liar knowing that her family would have no legal recourse or avenue to challenge them.

At no point have the Irish Times ever presented any evidence that anything in the original article was factually untrue even though the family have repeatedly called for this evidence to be published or made available to them. And if you read the original anonymous article, much of it was about Kate Fitzgerald's personal experience of working in The Communications Clinic. So I find it difficult to accept that The Irish Times could establish that some of what she wrote was not factual without being able to speak to her directly.


And that's not even going into the fact that other former employees have made similar allegations against The Communications Clinic.

I agree that just because someone is a suicide victim it doesn't mean that they cannot be a liar. However, I would also contend that The Irish Times would never have printed that apology if she was still alive and that is just wrong. If a so called paper of record is willing to completely shaft a young suicide victim without presenting a shred of evidence you have to question their ethical stance on every issue.

In bold: It would have been a legal nightmare for the IT. There is a reason no one is allowed mention a certain event promoter on Boards.
Anyway, she called Peter Murtagh saying who she was. There was no "going out of their way" to identify her.
They removed the potentially libelous stuff, which I was in full agreement with. They did the right thing. There was no proof backing up her statement. Yes, there have been similar allegations made, but that does not mean the same happened to Kate. As I said, she committed suicide, but that does not make her account true.

The problem I'm having with this 'outrage' is the fact that people are focusing on the fact that she killed herself. I'm finding that people wouldn't care as much if she died by some other means, or was still alive. The fact that she committed suicide should not come into it.

flyswatter

The Sparrow wrote: »

Anyone who still has any time for The IT should have a read of this:

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/06/05/kate-fitzgerald-and-the-irish-times-apology-to-the-communications-clinic-the-press-council-decision/

They paper acted disgracefully last year and basically branded a suicide victim as a liar after the company she worked for complained about an anonymous article that she wrote before she died. After her death the IT named her and then subsequently first amended her article and then then issued an apology accusing her of lying but offering no proof of that.

It was disgusting how they treated Kate Fitzgerald and her family following her death and were willing to bend over backwards due to the threat of legal action from The Communications Clinic.

The paper will need to do a whole lot more than just change it's size to convince me to ever buy it again.

Nice summary, I didn't fully grasp the story at the time.

The Sparrow

upandcumming wrote: »

In bold: It would have been a legal nightmare for the IT. There is a reason no one is allowed mention a certain event promoter on Boards.
Anyway, she called Peter Murtagh saying who she was. There was no "going out of their way" to identify her.
They removed the potentially libelous stuff, which I was in full agreement with. They did the right thing. There was no proof backing up her statement. Yes, there have been similar allegations made, but that does not mean the same happened to Kate. As I said, she committed suicide, but that does not make her account true.

The problem I'm having with this 'outrage' is the fact that people are focusing on the fact that she killed herself. I'm finding that people wouldn't care as much if she died by some other means, or was still alive. The fact that she committed suicide should not come into it.

It would have been a legal nightmare for the IT to prove what they wrote in that apology if she was still alive. That is the issue. Not how she happened to die even if that does make the case more tragic.

The fact is that it was a cowardly way for the paper to treat someone who sent in an anonymous article in good faith and never asked to be named. In fact, by the time the original anonymous article was published, she had already committed suicide.

You expect a newspaper with the reputation and stature of The Irish Times to stand up for people like Kate Fitgerald not roll over and accuse them of being liars following their death. Sure it might have been difficult but ethical journalism often is difficult.

That is the issue. Not how she died,

wilkie2006

Stinicker wrote: »

I like the Irish Times and read it online occasionally but I will never buy a broadsheet newspaper as it is just unreadable due to its stupidly massive size.

It's just snobbery. I really wish all the papers would produce a tabloid-sized version. Even if the Times followed the Guardian's example and printed on slightly smaller pages. Physically, broadsheet-sized papers are unmanageable things.

MadYaker

I read the Irish Times almost every day. It and The Sunday Business Post are the only decent newspapers available here imo. I don't understand how so many people can read sh!te like The Sun and The Star way more people read this muck than decent newspapers, maybe they are ok for sport which I have zero interest in but everything else in them is utter sh!te. Who the f*ck cares about the x-factor or what Louis Walshe had for breakfast, just f*ck off!

9959

take everything wrote: »

Much of Waters' stuff is execrable.
Fintan O' Toole is always interesting though.

I agree with the above, though I do believe that The Irish Times deserve some credit for giving a regular platform to John Waters, enabling him to spout his increasingly deranged right-wing views, even though those views are at odds with their own 'liberal agenda'.

I hope he continues to write for the paper, his pronouncements and assertions are always well-written, controversial, disputatious and provocative.
Unfortunately, to judge by his last few columns, he now appears to be as mad as a fridge.
Can a 'mad fridge' be a national treasure?
I hope so.

Capt'n Midnight

wilkie2006 wrote: »

It's just snobbery. I really wish all the papers would produce a tabloid-sized version. Even if the Times followed the Guardian's example and printed on slightly smaller pages. Physically, broadsheet-sized papers are unmanageable things.

One of the Irish papers did that , two editions.

You just have to learn to fold the paper.

And the IT need to change their layout a little to accomodate the folding.


AH answer

One's butler should have the paper ironed before it is presented to sir.