Limerick city has highest % of vacant units of all Irish cities

ZombieBride

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WhhSBgd3KI

Cityslicker1

pigtown wrote: »

Exaggerate much? The 'city fathers' have actually spearheaded the badly needed revamp of the city centre. This includes Baker Place, William St., Sarsfield St., Upper William St., Bedford Row Upper and Lower, Thomas St., Foxes Bow, Little William St., Little Catherine St., parts of Catherine St., Shannon St., Lower Gerald Griffan St., and Henry St., Agustinian Lane, St. John's Square, and Clancy and O'Callaghan Strands which includes a new park that I can't remember the name of. It is going to proceed with the revamp of Harvey's and Howley's Quays in the next few months and I'm pretty sure the pedestrianisation of O'Connell St. will be starting soon.

The council also oversaw the redevelopment of the City Gallery, purchased the Belltable Arts Centre, helped set up the first scheme providing free premises to artists in Creative Limerick, established a library in Moyross, have given their full backing along with financial support to the Royal, and replaced the chistmas lights.

They are currently scouting for funding and a location for a new city library and city museum. They successfully lobbied the government for funding to buy the Patrick St. block and are now putting together a comprehensive plan for this site. The Orbital Route when completed should provide for the efficient movement of traffic and also a more pleasant experience for shoppers.

While the city does have an image problem, it certainly isn't that different to other cities in the country and the city council have no control over gardaí anyway. Also it should be borne in mind that the council is not all that powerful and has both an extremely limited budget and range of powers.

Now it does appear that I'm a cheer leader for the city council but I'm merely presenting the facts. Essentially what I'm saying flutered, is that your post is full of hyperbole and you should take a rational and objective view of the situation.

Lets hope they won't pedestriaise O' Connell street. Can you imagine how dead the city centre will feel if they go ahead with this. Only for the constant flow of traffic on that street the place would be a complete ghost town. The traffic is the only thing that gives the place some sort of buzz at the moment. There's more than enough pedestrianised streets in the city. I could see some sort of logic if they were considering pedestrianising William street as there's some shops on that street. There won't be enough people to fill that area to make it seem vibrant as there's nothing on that stretch only Brown Thomas, Bank of Ireland and a couple of takeaways. Shop street in Galway works as being a main pedestrianised street because it's narrow and quaint with lots of busy bars and restaurants. Limerick is nothing like Galway. They should take Corks St.Patrick street as an example. Instead they should consider reducing the speed of cars by adding speed bumps to the area selected to pedestrianise, widen the footpaths with high quality attractive paving with the addition of street furniture and lots of trees. I think closing off that street to traffic is a big mistake.

pigtown

Cityslicker1 wrote: »

Lets hope they won't pedestriaise O' Connell street. Can you imagine how dead the city centre will feel if they go ahead with this. Only for the constant flow of traffic on that street the place would be a complete ghost town. The traffic is the only thing that gives the place some sort of buzz at the moment. There's more than enough pedestrianised streets in the city. I could see some sort of logic if they were considering pedestrianising William street as there's some shops on that street. There won't be enough people to fill that area to make it seem vibrant as there's nothing on that stretch only Brown Thomas, Bank of Ireland and a couple of takeaways. Shop street in Galway works as being a main pedestrianised street because it's narrow and quaint with lots of busy bars and restaurants. Limerick is nothing like Galway. They should take Corks St.Patrick street as an example. Instead they should consider reducing the speed of cars by adding speed bumps to the area selected to pedestrianise, widen the footpaths with high quality attractive paving with the addition of street furniture and lots of trees. I think closing off that street to traffic is a big mistake.

Ya I'm not really sure about this. I know what you mean about it being fairly quiet but I don't think Bedford Row was all that busy before it was pedestrianised and look at it now. I think it could be a good thing though because it's wide enough to serve as kind of a central square.

I've just looked at the street on street view and between Supermac's and Leavy's Shoes there is only one vacant unit; the Sony Centre. Between the Chicken Hut and the old Fergusan's Pharmacy, the pharmacy is vacant as is Sequoia Lane and I think Nevil's Shoes, but planning applications have been submitted to open cafes in Sequoia Lane and Fergusan's.
On the other side, Dunnes and Acc Bank are empty and so is the unit beside Carl Scarpa. All in all the part they propose to pedestrianise houses Brown Thomas, Compu B (the apple store), a church, the Munster Rugby Store, 3 fast food places and the BofI headquarters among others. Assuming both proposed cafes open there could be on street seating for up to 8 premises. If these places don't draw a crowd then I don't think anything will.

Cityslicker1

pigtown wrote: »

Ya I'm not really sure about this. I know what you mean about it being fairly quiet but I don't think Bedford Row was all that busy before it was pedestrianised and look at it now. I think it could be a good thing though because it's wide enough to serve as kind of a central square.

I've just looked at the street on street view and between Supermac's and Leavy's Shoes there is only one vacant unit; the Sony Centre. Between the Chicken Hut and the old Fergusan's Pharmacy, the pharmacy is vacant as is Sequoia Lane and I think Nevil's Shoes, but planning applications have been submitted to open cafes in Sequoia Lane and Fergusan's.
On the other side, Dunnes and Acc Bank are empty and so is the unit beside Carl Scarpa. All in all the part they propose to pedestrianise houses Brown Thomas, Compu B (the apple store), a church, the Munster Rugby Store, 3 fast food places and the BofI headquarters among others. Assuming both proposed cafes open there could be on street seating for up to 8 premises. If these places don't draw a crowd then I don't think anything will.

Lets hope it's a success..but after 6pm the city centre is dead and without the traffic on the street in the evening it will be just eerie

hightower1

Its really all excuses, pedestrianizing streets and adding parking is all small steps but ultimately like anything else to do with sales and footfall - if you give people what they want you will be busy. Shoppers want good and unique stores they cant find anywhere else.

If you haven't got any shops to tempt people into town no amount of events, pedestrianizing , bands, etc will work. City planners need to be out finishing / starting the Opera center and banging down unique retailers doors giving incentives to get them set up in there.

If you have shops like Gap, Starbucks, Bershka, M&S etc then people have a reason to come to the city center rather than outlying shopping centers. There is only so much consumer money in the county and the sooner the clowns in power start treating the city center as being in competition for those euros with the likes of the cresent the better.

pigtown

pigtown wrote: »

Ya I'm not really sure about this. I know what you mean about it being fairly quiet but I don't think Bedford Row was all that busy before it was pedestrianised and look at it now. I think it could be a good thing though because it's wide enough to serve as kind of a central square.

I've just looked at the street on street view and between Supermac's and Leavy's Shoes there is only one vacant unit; the Sony Centre. Between the Chicken Hut and the old Fergusan's Pharmacy, the pharmacy is vacant as is Sequoia Lane and I think Nevil's Shoes, but planning applications have been submitted to open cafes in Sequoia Lane and Fergusan's.
On the other side, Dunnes and Acc Bank are empty and so is the unit beside Carl Scarpa. All in all the part they propose to pedestrianise houses Brown Thomas, Compu B (the apple store), a church, the Munster Rugby Store, 3 fast food places and the BofI headquarters among others. Assuming both proposed cafes open there could be on street seating for up to 8 premises. If these places don't draw a crowd then I don't think anything will.

Just want to make it clear that Nevil's is definitely not closed. Sorry about that.

grenache

europa11 wrote: »

Hardly shocking news. Some reasons here, there are more:

Doughnut effect.

Highest commercial rates in Ireland.

Poorly lit streets, with beggars and junkies appearing "out of the dark". A night-time shopping experience no one needs.

Feckless City Councillors who really don't give a fug.

Unpoliced streets during daytime (such as William St. and Cruises St) taken over by hoodie scum, tappers and pojama people. Saturday being a striking example of such btw, never a cop in sight, intimidating enough for locals, whatever about visitors.

The perennial parking problems.

Lack of stimulus (festivals, events, promotions), again down to City Council who are downright negligent to say the least in this respect esp. when compared to Galway.

The never-ending M&S saga.

...feel free to add on.....

Only for the fact that I worked in the city centre for 5 years until last year, I would never have gone there to do my shopping. Pretty much for all the reasons given above.

But especially because of the lack of decent shops and tracksuits wandering everywhere.

It's certainly nowhere near an enjoyable shopping experience as Cork.

seachto7

City centre is great if you have a coffee addiction, want to buy "sports wear", or want to eat fast food/takeaways all the time.

Cartman78

The doughnut effect has had a huge impact on the city alright - esp. Childers Road and the B&Q/Harvey Norman area (the exact name for this escapes me at the minute) but I actually think the city centre has improved in many ways in the last 12-18 mths

As alluded to by previous posters, there is now a thriving coffee culture around the Thomas St. area which is great to see and there are a growing number of decent restaurants which seem to be thriving.

The vacant units are a problem and unless the authorities get the thumb out and get creative, this is going to be a long-term problem.
The 'rough' element that people have mentioned is always going to be there. This is less visible in the likes of Cork and Galway perhaps but tbh I feel just as safe on the streets of Limerick as anywhere else in Ireland

Kess73

Cartman78 wrote: »

The doughnut effect has had a huge impact on the city alright - esp. Childers Road and the B&Q/Harvey Norman area (the exact name for this escapes me at the minute) but I actually think the city centre has improved in many ways in the last 12-18 mths

As alluded to by previous posters, there is now a thriving coffee culture around the Thomas St. area which is great to see and there are a growing number of decent restaurants which seem to be thriving.

The vacant units are a problem and unless the authorities get the thumb out and get creative, this is going to be a long-term problem.
The 'rough' element that people have mentioned is always going to be there. This is less visible in the likes of Cork and Galway perhaps but tbh I feel just as safe on the streets of Limerick as anywhere else in Ireland

There is a very simple reason as to why it is less visible in those two cities (although there is always some around) and that is regular foot patrols day and night. Foot patrols that do make a beeline for any rowdy groups and that do move messers on so that they don't stay in one location.

Now I am sure that things are not perfect in those cities, but regular and visible foot patrols do have an impact especially when those doing the patrols are proactive in nipping things in the bud.

As someone who is in Galway and Cork each week it is hard not to notice the differences in things like garda patrols compared to Limerick, and as someone who has a business in each of those cities it is also very difficult not to notice the differences between trying to operate a business there and here. Given it is all the one country there should be a pretty uniform way of getting things done, but I can say from personal experience that Limerick is still more in tune with the kind of parish pump local authorities etc of a town than that of a growning city when compared with Galway and Cork, especially the latter. Plus there is a big difference in the basic cost of running a business in Cork city than a similar sized business in a similar location in Limerick city. Frighteningly the Limerick costs seem more in tune with Dublin prices when cost per square foot is looked at.

There are a lot of very clever people in Limerick with some very good ideas for new small to mid sized ventures, but the cost does put many off and has caused many to set up outside of Limerick city.

nebusfan

One major problem affecting Limerick City I find is the council have allowed over the 'growth times' a lot of out of town shopping areas on the outskirts,such as Parkway Retail Park,Childers Road,Coonagh etc... and because of the terrible traffic management in the city centre which is chronic in the peaks,people are just driving to out of town centres because it is more easy than the drag into the city centre. Also because some shops have closed their branch or store in the city centre,maybe because of the high cost of rents and open a one up in a retail park and as a consequence there ia a direct result as footfall drops in the city centre because the number and type of shops dissapear as people drift away. The city needs investment and some tidying up,look at the closed store on Liddy Street it has been empty for a few years. A lot of problems in Limerick also stem from poor access by public transport,the buses are caught up in traffic,no priorities,crap parking so the buses can't even access main stops in the city centre and the garda don't seem that bothered.,waiting facilities are very poor,virtually no shelters and rubbish information,many stops don't even have times or details of which buses stop there!!How on earth can a visitor plan a trip or even a resident.The bus and rail station is on the wrong side of town,well away from the main shopping area and is badly signed.Maybe look at holding events in the city,creating public squares,entertainment to bring people in.Create a possitive attitude in the city,create a buzz and start promoting the city centre more and attract more people to come as the main destination.LETS HOPE SOMETHING CHANGES SOON or the place will wither and die,and that would be a major shame.

pigtown

nebusfan wrote: »

One major problem affecting Limerick City I find is the council have allowed over the 'growth times' a lot of out of town shopping areas on the outskirts,such as Parkway Retail Park,Childers Road,Coonagh etc...

And I see in this weeks Leader that certain councillors are trying their best to ignore the new retail strategy for the city and get an Aldi shop to open in the Raheen/Dooradoyle area. Thankfully most of the councillors saw sense and voted against the proposal.

Treehorn

I was out in the Crescent for the first time in about a year last Saturday. The difference footfall wise with the city was unbelievable.

It isn't a matter of time before the city is dead.

It is dead already.

I think I'll be shopping in the Crescent in future, the city has nothing to offer and I'm sick of the scum loitering about the place.

Kess73

pigtown wrote: »

And I see in this weeks Leader that certain councillors are trying their best to ignore the new retail strategy for the city and get an Aldi shop to open in the Raheen/Dooradoyle area. Thankfully most of the councillors saw sense and voted against the proposal.

Thought it was a bit stupid for them top vote against it tbh. All blocking it does is cause some new jobs not to be made in the Limerick area because Aldi won't be opening a unit in the city centre.I'm sure Aldi will try again, and if they head a dead end they will just open a store in some other county and bring jobs there instead.

The only result from blocking it is less jobs for the Limerick area, because the same guys blocking it sure as hell don'thave anything else lined up for the city centre.

The obsession with the doughnut effect really does muddy the waters a great deal and suits councillors as it gives them something to pont the finger at as a handy excuse for failures in the city centre.

Funny how many of them stayed quiet over the years when long term Limerick businesses started to leave the city centre. Names like Clancys, and Kielys. Funny how they stayed very quiet when people from those places came out and said why they were leaving the city centre.

Itis also funny how they stay quiet when say a new Connolys store or the like opens in the Crescent Shopping centre. Surely things like that should fall under their doughnut effect outrage? After all would it not take business from the city centre stores?


Nah the doughnut effect is a factor, but it is being used as an excuse for Limerick people to lap up lest they start asking deeper questions about why Limerick city is a retail dead end.

kilburn

You cant blame the City Council for the county council building big shopping centres on every approach road into the city.

TBF was it not the county councillors who blocked the Aldi?

pigtown

Kess73 wrote: »

Thought it was a bit stupid for them top vote against it tbh. All blocking it does is cause some new jobs not to be made in the Limerick area because Aldi won't be opening a unit in the city centre.I'm sure Aldi will try again, and if they head a dead end they will just open a store in some other county and bring jobs there instead.

The only result from blocking it is less jobs for the Limerick area, because the same guys blocking it sure as hell don'thave anything else lined up for the city centre.

The obsession with the doughnut effect really does muddy the waters a great deal and suits councillors as it gives them something to pont the finger at as a handy excuse for failures in the city centre.

Funny how many of them stayed quiet over the years when long term Limerick businesses started to leave the city centre. Names like Clancys, and Kielys. Funny how they stayed very quiet when people from those places came out and said why they were leaving the city centre.

Itis also funny how they stay quiet when say a new Connolys store or the like opens in the Crescent Shopping centre. Surely things like that should fall under their doughnut effect outrage? After all would it not take business from the city centre stores?


Nah the doughnut effect is a factor, but it is being used as an excuse for Limerick people to lap up lest they start asking deeper questions about why Limerick city is a retail dead end.

If Aldi believe they have the custom for another store in Limerick then they would be stupid not to open it, and they already have city centre stores in other areas so I don't see why Limerick should be any different.

And while I don't disagree with the rest of your post, I'm happy that the council seem to be sticking to the retail strategy so far. It can only be a good thing.

pigtown

kilburn wrote: »

You cant blame the City Council for the county council building big shopping centres on every approach road into the city.

TBF was it not the county councillors who blocked the Aldi?

Yes they did. I was pointing out that some county councillors still want more retail in the suburbs. Thankfully it's only some though.

Kess73

pigtown wrote: »

If Aldi believe they have the custom for another store in Limerick then they would be stupid not to open it, and they already have city centre stores in other areas so I don't see why Limerick should be any different.

And while I don't disagree with the rest of your post, I'm happy that the council seem to be sticking to the retail strategy so far. It can only be a good thing.

Where do they have actual city centre stores? They have stores on the outskirts of cities, but I cannot think of one Aldi store complete with car park in Cork city centre, Galway city centre, Dublin city centre, Limerick city centre or Waterford city centre.

They only places where they(or Lidl) turn up in a central location is small towns like Tipp town.


They are not a high street type company, and as such don't set up in city centres, so all the councillors blocked was a company that would not be coming into the city centre anyway and by blocking it they are potentially stopping new jobs from coming.

If things are at the point where an Aldi store is seen as some kind of serious threat to the city's retail plan, then it must be one hell of a weak plan, either that or certain councillors are jumping through hoops to keep certain business people from having genuine competition on their doorsteps.

I might believe there is an actual retail strategy when I see new businesses coming to Limerick city centre and not get to see years of Limerick Leader articles where nameless sources tell of huge multinationals and huge projects that are always just on the cusp of happening.

It actually makes for interesting reading if one takes the time to scour through various headlines where a long list of councillors and city planners made bold claims in interviews about various things that were about the start in 30 days, 60 days, 90 days and so on. It makes for a long list of "huge jobs boost for Limerick" headlines regarding the city centre that for the most part has amounted to nowt.

I think I am just a bit snarly on the topic of retail and other businesses in Limerick city centre at present.

Kess73

pigtown wrote: »

Yes they did. I was pointing out that some county councillors still want more retail in the suburbs. Thankfully it's only some though.

Nothing wrong with more retail in the suburbs as long as it is something that will meet a demand in a particular location or provide genuine competition in that area.

There are plenty of different retail companies that could open in the suburbs that would not have a negative impact on the city centre, but that would have a very positive effect on the unemployment figures.

pigtown

Kess73 wrote: »

Where do they have actual city centre stores? They have stores on the outskirts of cities, but I cannot think of one Aldi store complete with car park in Cork city centre, Galway city centre, Dublin city centre, Limerick city centre or Waterford city centre.

They only places where they(or Lidl) turn up in a central location is small towns like Tipp town.


They are not a high street type company, and as such don't set up in city centres, so all the councillors blocked was a company that would not be coming into the city centre anyway and by blocking it they are potentially stopping new jobs from coming.

If things are at the point where an Aldi store is seen as some kind of serious threat to the city's retail plan, then it must be one hell of a weak plan, either that or certain councillors are jumping through hoops to keep certain business people from having genuine competition on their doorsteps.

I might believe there is an actual retail strategy when I see new businesses coming to Limerick city centre and not get to see years of Limerick Leader articles where nameless sources tell of huge multinationals and huge projects that are always just on the cusp of happening.

It actually makes for interesting reading if one takes the time to scour through various headlines where a long list of councillors and city planners made bold claims in interviews about various things that were about the start in 30 days, 60 days, 90 days and so on. It makes for a long list of "huge jobs boost for Limerick" headlines regarding the city centre that for the most part has amounted to nowt.

I think I am just a bit snarly on the topic of retail and other businesses in Limerick city centre at present.

They have a store on either Moore St. or Parnell St. in Dublin, can't remember which.
I don't think the point is to stop Aldi from opening in the suburbs, but the store limit is 900sq.m and Aldi want this extended to 1400. It's the extension that the councillors are against.

Kess73 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with more retail in the suburbs as long as it is something that will meet a demand in a particular location or provide genuine competition in that area.

There are plenty of different retail companies that could open in the suburbs that would not have a negative impact on the city centre, but that would have a very positive effect on the unemployment figures.

Well I think there should be absolutely no more retail in the suburbs apart from convenience stores and the like. I read somewhere that Westport town council at the beginning of the boom made a resolution to ban out of town retail centres. The retailers protested and petitioned but the council didn't give in and the retailers opened in the town centre.

nebusfan

The type of store the Aldi unit would be is that of a useful addition to the residents for a modest suburban shopping area as long as that area contains the right mix of establishments that would benefit that area.A 'neighbourhood' area should be based ideally on a mix of public and private establishments that are easily accessed on foot,or by bike alongside bike lanes and bike storage facility also with car access and safe parking and also idealy served by public transport with a bus stop,with dedicated lay-by and shelter with timetable.The site may have things such as a local health centre,perhaps library,council office,garda station then a mix of shop units,large enough and varied to service the needs of the locals.Such good examples I see of these in the Limerick area are the shopping area's at Westbury,Watch House Cross and Castletroy. The Crescent Shopping Centre at Dooradoyle/Raheen has a good mix of public facilities and shopping outlets, a mix of a supermarket and major anchor stores,a varied mix of food outlets,and a mix of other shops but hopefully not getting any larger.
One major thing I have seen happening in Limerick over the course of the last 25 years I have been visiting is the major infrastructure investments that have been happening. This 'building frenzy' caused explosions of house and road building on the outskirts of the city,examples being those at Raheen and Castletroy in County Limerick and at Shannon Banks/Westbury in Clare. The road system is expanding and finally catching up with other large cities in Ireland and the UK,advancing them into the modern era .This has resulted on major spending on motorways,'the Shannon tunnel',dual carriageways,road expansions etc.. The financial crash however has meant spending has either slowed or stopped as national and local government has changed priorities and rained in spending and as such many areas have seen regeneration programmes that were planned either curtailed or cancelled,examples in Limerick being those at Moyross and Southill.
One major problem I find with Limerick city centre is the lack of a big draw of visitor attractions,both for residents as well as tourists and guests.Yes there is the castle,art gallery etc...but what about things such as a cinema,leisure centre etcc.. these type of things help bring in people,a good example is the use of Thomond Park for concerts and sporting events. A large concert there by a major headline act,such as Bruce 'The Boss' could be a huge kufor the city and will drawn in thousands. While they are in the city,there are covered shopping centres in the city centre like Arthur's Quay and the Dunnes development on Henry Street replacing the old grotty Spaights shopping area. These type of things help to bring in people,their families,their kids etc..into the city centre and they in turn also visit and spend in other shops and restaurants etc.. but unless there is a varied draw for people and an environment that is both pedestrian,car and public transport friendly then they will not stay there and they will find somewhere else to go. The result is that the city centre will stagnate and then deteriate and unless ultimately reversed will wither and die. The new roads network which will help to remove the uneccessary vehicles that wish to by-pass the city will free up space to help with traffic and it's flow,finally extend the bus lanes that start in the county but abruptly end at the city boundary.The plan to keep Limerick moving needs all sides to come together and make Limerick city centre become THE ultimate destination but that needs the will of government,national and local.

pigtown

I agree that an Aldi would be a useful addition to a local area, but as it stands they are free to open a 900(sq foot or metre, can't remember) shop if they want to. What I was saying was that some in the county council would like to see bigger units in the suburbs.

I also agree that the city needs a better mix of attractions in the centre and I would assume that the new city manager will try to address this with the Opera centre site. By the way, there was talk of an overarching plan being drawn up for the city, does anyone know when it will be ready?

And nebusfan, too much text, bullet points and paragraphs hurt your eyes less.

Solair

I think Limerick could learn a lot from Cork and probably Galway to a greater degree as it's a similar size.

I'm not saying any of this to slag Limerick off, but I think it's worth comparing.

Cork wasn't in great shape in the late 80s / early 90s. The river stank, the city centre was scruffy and in general it was a bit depressed.

However, these days Cork has created a tremendous buzz around the city centre over the last 10+ years. Certainly since it was European Capital of Culture in 2005 and since the city centre was totally repaved and revamped and the river was made a lot more pleasant with the complete rebuild of the city sewage system.

There's a constant stream of events on. It's lively, it's relatively safe, and it has a whole heap of cultural activities and really good cafes and casual restaurants all over the place. There's also a fairly decent population in the city / immediate city centre surrounds as there's quite a bit of nice housing within walking distance of town. Where as in Dublin there are a lot of scary areas in walking distance of town on most sides of the city.

Cork's retail selection also has the critical mass to attract in really big brand names so, you tend to get an excellent selection of shops.

Being quite a lot bigger than Limerick probably helps too, as it has a very wealthy (relative to most of the country) suburban hinterland to draw upon and they really do come into to town to shop. The City Centre's absolutely packed with shoppers at the moment and it has a really nice vibe.

Cork also has a fantastic selection of smaller retailers and a huge indoor market (English Market). There's also really good parking facilities that allow access and actually quite excellent park and ride facilities on the outskirts of town too.

Cork has tons of out-of-town shopping, including the largest shopping centre (by miles) in Munster - Mahon Point, and quite a large number of others too and Douglas in particular is a major suburban epicenter of activity (not just a shopping centre).

Out of town large shopping centres in Cork : Mahon Point (60+ stores, food court, omniplex + large retail park) + Retail Park, Douglas Shopping Centre, Douglas Court SC, Wilton SC, Blackpool SC.

All that retail on the outskirts is pretty top notch but it still doesn't hold a candle to what's in the city centre in many respects in terms of choice and particular in terms of atmosphere.

You can't really just blame donut development. City Centres absolutely have to offer something that a shopping centre can't. Effectively you have to see them as a cultural / retail space that competes head on with shopping centres and in most case should be able to win, hands-down.

You absolutely have to offer shoppers something in terms of an experience and I think Cork does that in bucket loads. If you go in on a weekend, you have buskers all over the place and it just oozes atmosphere.

Limerick has a nice setting and a huge castle and it should really make a lot more of itself.
It's not all about local government though, people need to actually just start doing stuff in the city centre! That means things like farmers markets, food markets, street theatre, busking, opening more cafes etc etc..

A lot of it is about kick starting something and when it reaches critical mass it suddenly keeps going. That's pretty much what happened in Dublin in the 80s and Cork in the 90s and Belfast in the 00s.

Limerick still hasn't quite found that spark I think.

Perhaps some big cultural event will kick it off at some stage in the future.

Cityslicker1

Solair wrote: »

I think Limerick could learn a lot from Cork and probably Galway to a greater degree as it's a similar size.

I'm not saying any of this to slag Limerick off, but I think it's worth comparing.

Cork wasn't in great shape in the late 80s / early 90s. The river stank, the city centre was scruffy and in general it was a bit depressed.

However, these days Cork has created a tremendous buzz around the city centre over the last 10+ years. Certainly since it was European Capital of Culture in 2005 and since the city centre was totally repaved and revamped and the river was made a lot more pleasant with the complete rebuild of the city sewage system.

There's a constant stream of events on. It's lively, it's relatively safe, and it has a whole heap of cultural activities and really good cafes and casual restaurants all over the place. There's also a fairly decent population in the city / immediate city centre surrounds as there's quite a bit of nice housing within walking distance of town. Where as in Dublin there are a lot of scary areas in walking distance of town on most sides of the city.

Cork's retail selection also has the critical mass to attract in really big brand names so, you tend to get an excellent selection of shops.

Being quite a lot bigger than Limerick probably helps too, as it has a very wealthy (relative to most of the country) suburban hinterland to draw upon and they really do come into to town to shop. The City Centre's absolutely packed with shoppers at the moment and it has a really nice vibe.

Cork also has a fantastic selection of smaller retailers and a huge indoor market (English Market). There's also really good parking facilities that allow access and actually quite excellent park and ride facilities on the outskirts of town too.

Cork has tons of out-of-town shopping, including the largest shopping centre (by miles) in Munster - Mahon Point, and quite a large number of others too and Douglas in particular is a major suburban epicenter of activity (not just a shopping centre).

Out of town large shopping centres in Cork : Mahon Point (60+ stores, food court, omniplex + large retail park) + Retail Park, Douglas Shopping Centre, Douglas Court SC, Wilton SC, Blackpool SC.

All that retail on the outskirts is pretty top notch but it still doesn't hold a candle to what's in the city centre in many respects in terms of choice and particular in terms of atmosphere.

You can't really just blame donut development. City Centres absolutely have to offer something that a shopping centre can't. Effectively you have to see them as a cultural / retail space that competes head on with shopping centres and in most case should be able to win, hands-down.

You absolutely have to offer shoppers something in terms of an experience and I think Cork does that in bucket loads. If you go in on a weekend, you have buskers all over the place and it just oozes atmosphere.

Limerick has a nice setting and a huge castle and it should really make a lot more of itself.
It's not all about local government though, people need to actually just start doing stuff in the city centre! That means things like farmers markets, food markets, street theatre, busking, opening more cafes etc etc..

A lot of it is about kick starting something and when it reaches critical mass it suddenly keeps going. That's pretty much what happened in Dublin in the 80s and Cork in the 90s and Belfast in the 00s.

Limerick still hasn't quite found that spark I think.

Perhaps some big cultural event will kick it off at some stage in the future.

Cork doesn't feel that much bigger than Limerick to me physically. The population is obviously larger but in saying that the Cork city population includes places like Mallow and Cobh which are well outside the city centre. I think comparing Limerick to Galway isn't a good idea. Galway feels an awful lot smaller than Limerick. You can tell that Limerick was built to be a city by looking at the architecture. Galway feels like a large town surrounded by poorly planned housing estates. Visually they are very different and one of the main reasons for Galways success is down to Galways compact size with its narrow winding quaint streets. Its basically the perfect city for tourists as it hits every stereotype people would think if asked what a typical Irish city would look like. Limerick has more of a city feel compared to Galway. It was designed in a grid fashion with long wide streets. Cork is full of narrow cobbled lanes and streets too however I don't think a city has to have an abundance of medieval streets to be attractive. Limerick is unique to Cork and Galway in the fact that is has rows and rows of long elegant Georgian streets and the city is regarded as the best example of Georgian architecture outside Dublin in Ireland. Unfortunately, Limerick doesn't take advantage of this strength as many of the buildings are in poor condition. One of the main reasons Limerick is regarded as a less favorable place is down to Limericks very bad reputation. I was out of the country last week and I was talking to a girl from Canada.I told her I went to university in Limerick and she responded with 'oh stab city'. It's easy for Cork and Galway to thrive when they never had the uphill challenge of trying to shake off an undeserved bad name. Why would tourists or students come to Limerick, a place where they have heard you will get stabbed if you leave your house, when there's other alternatives. If I was moving to the US I wouldn't consider Detriot because I have other options such as New York, Boston etc. Limerick won't find that spark until it can reinvent itself as something other than stab city overrun with gangsters and criminals.

ZombieBride

Is there a maximum time limit that "for sale/let" signs are allowed to be attached to buildings, as the top of O'Connell Street seems like it is all to let. If we got rid of some of those it would make the place physically more appealing.
You can see how many there are of them in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lkbq6HHnqk

Oh off topic but a bugbear of mine, is that painting on the corner of Cecil street for the budget cab company, which is so old that there are only 5 digits in the phone number every going to be done up or painted over.

Solair

Cityslicker1 wrote: »

Cork doesn't feel that much bigger than Limerick to me physically. The population is obviously larger but in saying that the Cork city population includes places like Mallow and Cobh which are well outside the city centre. I think comparing Limerick to Galway isn't a good idea. Galway feels an awful lot smaller than Limerick. You can tell that Limerick was built to be a city by looking at the architecture. Galway feels like a large town surrounded by poorly planned housing estates. Visually they are very different and one of the main reasons for Galways success is down to Galways compact size with its narrow winding quaint streets. Its basically the perfect city for tourists as it hits every stereotype people would think if asked what a typical Irish city would look like. Limerick has more of a city feel compared to Galway. It was designed in a grid fashion with long wide streets. Cork is full of narrow cobbled lanes and streets too however I don't think a city has to have an abundance of medieval streets to be attractive. Limerick is unique to Cork and Galway in the fact that is has rows and rows of long elegant Georgian streets and the city is regarded as the best example of Georgian architecture outside Dublin in Ireland. Unfortunately, Limerick doesn't take advantage of this strength as many of the buildings are in poor condition. One of the main reasons Limerick is regarded as a less favorable place is down to Limericks very bad reputation. I was out of the country last week and I was talking to a girl from Canada.I told her I went to university in Limerick and she responded with 'oh stab city'. It's easy for Cork and Galway to thrive when they never had the uphill challenge of trying to shake off an undeserved bad name. Why would tourists or students come to Limerick, a place where they have heard you will get stabbed if you leave your house, when there's other alternatives. If I was moving to the US I wouldn't consider Detriot because I have other options such as New York, Boston etc. Limerick won't find that spark until it can reinvent itself as something other than stab city overrun with gangsters and criminals.

It doesn't include Mallow or any town that's very far away.

The population of the "Greater Cork City Area" is 399,216

It includes : city of Cork and its suburbs and the towns of Ballincollig, Blarney, Carrigaline, Carrigtwohill, Cobh, Crosshaven, Glanmire, Glounthaune, Midleton, Monkstown, Passage West and Ringaskiddy.

i.e. it's commuter belt area which is all within a 15 to 20 min drive.

Basically, an area that you could roughly define by the (021) telephone area code. The 022,3,4,5,6,8 & 9 areas area all too far away to be considered part of the Cork City area.

(Total County population : 518,128 i.e. all the rural areas too)

Limerick's urban area + surrounds comes to about 120,000 at most. So, basically population wise, Cork's over 3 times larger which gives it a lot of economies of scale.

However, the issues in Limerick are not really to do with scale, as Galway is a similar size.
They're all to do with not making use of the resources that the city centre has. The castle in particular is a huge asset.

ZombieBride

I was in the city centre yesterday and was approached by two people looking for money (*for a hostel*), and then there were the others who didn't approach me but were standing outside shop doors with their tables or sitting on the ground with their cups or wandering with their clipboards. That does not make for a pleasant trip to the city. Today I went to the Crescent and wasn't harassed by anyone, and could spend my cash in peace.

Cityslicker1

Solair wrote: »

It doesn't include Mallow or any town that's very far away.

The population of the "Greater Cork City Area" is 399,216

It includes : city of Cork and its suburbs and the towns of Ballincollig, Blarney, Carrigaline, Carrigtwohill, Cobh, Crosshaven, Glanmire, Glounthaune, Midleton, Monkstown, Passage West and Ringaskiddy.

i.e. it's commuter belt area which is all within a 15 to 20 min drive.

Basically, an area that you could roughly define by the (021) telephone area code. The 022,3,4,5,6,8 & 9 areas area all too far away to be considered part of the Cork City area.

(Total County population : 518,128 i.e. all the rural areas too)

Limerick's urban area + surrounds comes to about 120,000 at most. So, basically population wise, Cork's over 3 times larger which gives it a lot of economies of scale.

Limerick doesn't include places like Annacotty, Castleconnell, Patrickswell, Parteen, Mungret, Clarina, Cratloe, Clonara, Ardnacrusha, Meelick etc. I know Corks population is bigger but there isn't much difference between the size of the city centres.

Rodin

A grim place is Limerick

It needs to invest to attract people. People arriving makes it better and the cycle continues.

Cityslicker1

ZombieBride wrote: »

I was in the city centre yesterday and was approached by two people looking for money (*for a hostel*), and then there were the others who didn't approach me but were standing outside shop doors with their tables or sitting on the ground with their cups or wandering with their clipboards. That does not make for a pleasant trip to the city. Today I went to the Crescent and wasn't harassed by anyone, and could spend my cash in peace.

I was in Edinburgh, one of Europe's most tourist cities and the second most visited city in the UK a few weeks ago. I was approached many times by homeless beggars looking for money. I came across them on the Champs-Elysees in Paris too. Beggars are part of most city life. I agree that they are not the most pleasant feature of any city centre but a few tramps on O'Connell street are not the cause of Limericks problems.