Limerick city has highest % of vacant units of all Irish cities

Kess73

Just saw that the CBRE results are in and that Limerick has the highest unit vacancy rate of all the cities in Ireland and when all large towns are added to the list Limerick comes out second worst in the country behind Athlone.

Limerick city have a 16.3% vacancy rate whereas the likes of Galway, Dublin, Killarney and Kilkenny range between 2% and 7%.

Another interesting stat from the report is that when main streets and main shopping areas of the city and town centres were looked at in terms of what type of business was the most common, the likes of Belfast, Cork, Dublin, and Galway all had womens fashion as the most common city centre retail outlet, followed by shoe shops, mens clothing. Limerick on the other hand saw 21% of it's active businesses in the same area being made up of fast food/food outlets. then followed by footwear, jewellery stores and discount stores.


I think the report pretty much blows the myth that Limerick has a similar range of stores to other cities out of the water and also the myth that Limerick is some sort of fashion shop haven, not to mention the myth that Limerick city does not have a high % of empty units.

All in all in makes for some very disturbing reading with regards to Limerick, especially when the footfall figures are taken into account (Limerick comes in a very distant last of all the Irish cities on that score with Waterford being second last). It really shows the desperate need for a massive retail boost in Limerick. Retail would not be the one single thing that could "fix" Limerick, but Limerick's retail sector is dying and year on year reports with constant decline really should be setting off serious alarms bells for those in charge of the city and it really should be a sign for the bluffers who keep trying to pretend that nothing is wrong.

The weekend edition of the Leader and maybe the Limerick Post should be running something on the report and afaik the Chronicle yesterday gave it a mention.

Kess73

Found the article in the paper. Only quoted a segment of the article as per the Sherlock ruling on full articles being put up.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/16-of-shops-vacant-on-limerick-s-main-thoroughfare-1-4422057

OVER 16% of retail units in Limerick city are vacant - the second highest vacancy rate in the country - according to a new national study.



The study, conducted by CBRE Ireland Research Team, has for the first time given a regional breakdown in the main cities and towns across the country.

Only Athlone has a higher vacancy rate than Limerick, standing at 18%, based on the number of vacant units on the main streets. By comparison, Belfast and Cork each had a vacancy rate of 13%, followed by Sligo at 12.5%.

Killarney, Kilkenny, Galway and Dublin, had much lower vacancy rates, of between 2-7%.

bazz26

I actually thought it was higher than 16.3%.

PeepingTom2102

no suprise there:rolleyes:

europa11

Hardly shocking news. Some reasons here, there are more:

Doughnut effect.

Highest commercial rates in Ireland.

Poorly lit streets, with beggars and junkies appearing "out of the dark". A night-time shopping experience no one needs.

Feckless City Councillors who really don't give a fug.

Unpoliced streets during daytime (such as William St. and Cruises St) taken over by hoodie scum, tappers and pojama people. Saturday being a striking example of such btw, never a cop in sight, intimidating enough for locals, whatever about visitors.

The perennial parking problems.

Lack of stimulus (festivals, events, promotions), again down to City Council who are downright negligent to say the least in this respect esp. when compared to Galway.

The never-ending M&S saga.

...feel free to add on.....

Kess73

bazz26 wrote: »

I actually thought it was higher than 16.3%.

It does not include vacant office space and the like in the city. Basically what it has shown is that 1 in every 6 retail units in the city are vacant and that a large number of those are in what would be regarded as the city centre areas.


I think it also puts forward a case for some actual major changes in rents and rates in the city centre rather than the Mickey Mouse token gesture that the city council made on side of things.

Clareman

Both Athlone and Limerick have massive shopping centres and retail parks outside of the city centre though

Volvic12

I had a look at the actual research document itself.
Can't find a mention of footfall numbers in the city.
Anyone any idea where this research could be got?

Kess73

Clareman wrote: »

Both Athlone and Limerick have massive shopping centres and retail parks outside of the city centre though

So does Dublin and inner city figures there are far superior to Limerick in terms of %.

Cork is not short of out of town centres either.


The doughnut effect is a factor but it is also a lazy way for city councils etc to blame everything on an outside source rather than looking inward.

h3000

Kess73 wrote: »

So does Dublin and inner city figures there are far superior to Limerick in terms of %.

There are very few people living in Limerick city center though. There is very little apartment living in the Limerick city when you compare it to other cities. I think this has a part to play in the footfall for the city too particularly in the evenings for pub/cafe trade.

Kess73

h3000 wrote: »

There are very few people living in Limerick city center though. There is very little apartment living in the Limerick city when you compare it to other cities. I think this has a part to play in the footfall for the city too particularly in the evenings for pub/cafe trade.

Yep would agree with you on that. Limerick does need more people living in the city centre, but the flip side of that is that a city needs to have plenty of amenities ( especially non retail ones) to attract that permanent population such as cinemas and the like.


But yeah getting a larger city centre population should have been a no brainer target for many of the so called planners and councils for a couple of decades now.

langdang

Kess73 wrote: »

But yeah getting a larger city centre population should have been a no brainer target for many of the so called planners and councils for a couple of decades now.

I think the "plan" has been a problem fora long time now. There's just something a bit odd and disjointed about how the city has developed. There are good ingredients there but they seem to be in the wrong places or something.

Cityslicker1

Limerick city centre is dead after 6 O' clock. What are Limerick people doing in the evenings compared to the other cities in the country? There's a very different vibe in Limerick city centre compared to the other three cities Cork, Galway and Dublin. There's no point comparing Limerick to Dublin but I have noticed in cities like Cork and Galway that there's a great atmosphere in those cities in the evenings with people sitting outside coffee shops, restaurants, bars etc. People I know from outside Limerick have often commented on how Limerick city centre lacks character and seems soulless and I think this is due to the lack of people in the city centre especially after shops close. I also believe that Limericks bad reputation has a lot to do with why Limerick is in a worse position than the other cities. All other three cities have a visible amount of tourists on their streets;Limerick doesn't. A lot of Limerick people regard their city as a dump and speak of it in a negative light however many people from places like Cork and Galway constantly support and talk highly of their cities. People from Limerick should make more of their city and make the effort to hang out in the city centre more. A presence of people in the city centre especially in the evenings would make a world of difference and it's up to the people of Limerick to change that.

Kess73

Cityslicker1 wrote: »

Limerick city centre is dead after 6 O' clock. What are Limerick people doing in the evenings compared to the other cities in the country? There's a very different vibe in Limerick city centre compared to the other three cities Cork, Galway and Dublin. There's no point comparing Limerick to Dublin but I have noticed in cities like Cork and Galway that there's a great atmosphere in those cities in the evenings with people sitting outside coffee shops, restaurants, bars etc. People I know from outside Limerick have often commented on how Limerick city centre lacks character and seems soulless and I think this is due to the lack of people in the city centre especially after shops close. I also believe that Limericks bad reputation has a lot to do with why Limerick is in a worse position than the other cities. All other three cities have a visible amount of tourists on their streets;Limerick doesn't. A lot of Limerick people regard their city as a dump and speak of it in a negative light however many people from places like Cork and Galway constantly support and talk highly of their cities. People from Limerick should make more of their city and make the effort to hang out in the city centre more. A presence of people in the city centre especially in the evenings would make a world of difference and it's up to the people of Limerick to change that.

I agree with the sentiment, but there also needs to be something to keep the people wanting to stay in the city centre after 18:00 other than pubs and coffee shops.

The odd event now and then hardly compares to Cork and Galway where there seems to be a number of events running in the city centre pretty much on a weekly basis.


So I do agree that the people of Limerick need to make more of the city, but I also think that the city needs to do it's part in giving those people good reasons to keep coming back rather than going elsewhere.

juneg

I came to Limerick as a student. I liked it at the time but Limerick city centre was never a classy place nor had it a good name. People went to Cork to do their shopping and Galway for their socialising.

There seems to be a rough element in your face in Limerick.

There is nothing that would persuade me to go shopping into the city or take my kids in there and I dread the day when they start wanting to go out in the city.

I think that a huge reason why the city is dead in the evenings is that the massive student population of Limerick live outside the city. The doughnut effect does not only apply to shopping. It also applies to centres of Education, tourism and housing

Cityslicker1

It's a real pity that Limerick has a bad reputation that it can't seem to shake off. So many people from outside Limerick believe that it is inevitable that if you walk down O' Connell street in the city day or night that you have a major chance of being stabbed which is so untrue as we all know. Very little innocent non-criminal people in Limerick are very rarely targeted or attacked by the scum of Limerick as it's 90% amongst themselves in their own areas. In fairness on a Saturday night out in the city centre I can honestly say I almost never see trouble much less than in the other cities. I remember back a couple of years ago a Swiss girl who came to Ireland to learn English was raped and murdered in Galway by a man from the city. I have never heard of such as unfortunate situation happen in Limerick and yet that hasn't damaged Galway with thousands of students and tourists flocking there every year. In saying all that I am not trying to cover up the fact that Limerick has some awful estates that seem much worse than rough areas of Cork or Galway but it's an easy excuse. The idea of going into the city centre to meet friends in cafes or for a stroll just don't seem to appeal to people. Galway and Cork have adapted a cafe culture in their cities. As the previous poster said about UL being outside the city is most definately a big factor too.

liammur

Kess73 wrote: »

So does Dublin and inner city figures there are far superior to Limerick in terms of %.

Cork is not short of out of town centres either.


The doughnut effect is a factor but it is also a lazy way for city councils etc to blame everything on an outside source rather than looking inward.

Well said. I wonder would the fact that we have something like 28% unemployment have anything to do with ?!!

juneg

Cityslicker1 wrote: »

It's a real pity that Limerick has a bad reputation that it can't seem to shake off. So many people from outside Limerick believe that it is inevitable that if you walk down O' Connell street in the city day or night that you have a major chance of being stabbed which is so untrue as we all know. Very little innocent non-criminal people in Limerick are very rarely targeted or attacked by the scum of Limerick as it's 90% amongst themselves in their own areas. In fairness on a Saturday night out in the city centre I can honestly say I almost never see trouble much less than in the other cities. I remember back a couple of years ago a Swiss girl who came to Ireland to learn English was raped and murdered in Galway by a man from the city. I have never heard of such as unfortunate situation happen in Limerick and yet that hasn't damaged Galway with thousands of students and tourists flocking there every year. In saying all that I am not trying to cover up the fact that Limerick has some awful estates that seem much worse than rough areas of Cork or Galway but it's an easy excuse. The idea of going into the city centre to meet friends in cafes or for a stroll just don't seem to appeal to people. Galway and Cork have adapted a cafe culture in their cities. As the previous poster said about UL being outside the city is most definately a big factor too.

I appreciate what you are saying and I agree with a lot of it.
However,
the scum of Limerick came out here to Dooradoyle and murdered our rugby captain.

Brennans Row

juneg wrote: »

However, the scum of Limerick came out here to Dooradoyle and murdered our rugby captain.

Could there be a hint of class smugness in your remark “out here to Dooradoyle”, as if you considered Dooradoyle to be either not part of the city or it to be socially distinct from it?

I think it is a bit disrespectful to the memory of Shane Geoghegan to connect his death with the city centre having the highest % of vacant units of all Irish cities.

His courageous mother launched a charity in his name to provide children in vulnerable communities with an alternative to criminal or anti-social behaviour by making a range of sporting and creative activities accessible to them.

He was murdered by a viscous gang who killed him in a case of mistaken identity as they tried to take control of city's drug trade.

Hypocritically enough, drugs are still been consumed by many a respectful Doordoyle resident, who could not give a feck about the criminal consequences it has on communities like Weston, Southill etc.

A lot of people like Shane's mother are doing great things for our city and we should be supporting them in any way we can.

The same goes for our city centre, as its traders are doing their devils best to survive this recession (28% unemployment), so give them a break and support them if you can.

When one considers all the dire problems mentioned here, it is amazing that the glass is more than half full with a 84 % occupied rate!

ninty9er

What are the real number figures. Patrick street in Cork certainly has more vacant units than William Street, whereas Oliver Plunkett Street would have less than Cruises Street if you were to take them as comparable.

Is oversupply an element? Population is also an issue, even with empty units Cork always looks busy, never see Gardaí hassling groups of teenagers to move along, or people frowning upon groups of young people just standing around in their dozens.

flutered

basically the only real investment the city fathers have made is in their wages and pensions, they tore up william street a couple of times just to to give people the habit of of not shopping there, they are asking crazy money so people who try to earn a living have to quit, they then invested heavly in traffic lights to make motorists anxious not to return, they hired youths with hoodys and with white socks around their trackie bottoms, some with caps more acceptable to elderly gents on their heads, instead of cops to patrol the main shopping areas, they seem to have got the idea from the guys that used to patrol the subways in n.y.c. then a cider company hires down and outs to advertise their product, more youths are advertising funny smelling fags, the fags have no brand name, what deal do the makers get, the flowers growing along the inside of the side walk seemed to be a cute idea that somehow does not come off, i will not go into any more detail, enough is enough.

Doom

The amount of new traffic lights in the city puts people off too, I heard it mentioned that the traffic planner/ council allowed this to force people to use the Limerick Tunnel (a private company) and this has helped kill the city centre.....so its their (the Councils) own fault

Insect Overlord

flutered wrote: »

they hired youths with hoodys and with white socks around their trackie bottoms, some with caps more acceptable to elderly gents on their heads, instead of cops to patrol the main shopping areas, they seem to have got the idea from the guys that used to patrol the subways in n.y.c. then a cider company hires down and outs to advertise their product, more youths are advertising funny smelling fags, the fags have no brand name

What in the name of God are you on about?

flutered

Insect Overlord wrote: »

What in the name of God are you on about?

why be selective, post the full post, as a famous bard once said the truth is oftn bitter.

Insect Overlord

flutered wrote: »

why be selective, post the full post, as a famous bard once said the truth is oftn bitter.

The rest of the post makes sense. The bit I quoted does not (unless you're into Conspiracy Theories, for which there is an entire dedicated forum).

pigtown

flutered wrote: »

basically the only real investment the city fathers have made is in their wages and pensions, they tore up william street a couple of times just to to give people the habit of of not shopping there, they are asking crazy money so people who try to earn a living have to quit, they then invested heavly in traffic lights to make motorists anxious not to return, they hired youths with hoodys and with white socks around their trackie bottoms, some with caps more acceptable to elderly gents on their heads, instead of cops to patrol the main shopping areas, they seem to have got the idea from the guys that used to patrol the subways in n.y.c. then a cider company hires down and outs to advertise their product, more youths are advertising funny smelling fags, the fags have no brand name, what deal do the makers get, the flowers growing along the inside of the side walk seemed to be a cute idea that somehow does not come off, i will not go into any more detail, enough is enough.

Exaggerate much? The 'city fathers' have actually spearheaded the badly needed revamp of the city centre. This includes Baker Place, William St., Sarsfield St., Upper William St., Bedford Row Upper and Lower, Thomas St., Foxes Bow, Little William St., Little Catherine St., parts of Catherine St., Shannon St., Lower Gerald Griffan St., and Henry St., Agustinian Lane, St. John's Square, and Clancy and O'Callaghan Strands which includes a new park that I can't remember the name of. It is going to proceed with the revamp of Harvey's and Howley's Quays in the next few months and I'm pretty sure the pedestrianisation of O'Connell St. will be starting soon.

The council also oversaw the redevelopment of the City Gallery, purchased the Belltable Arts Centre, helped set up the first scheme providing free premises to artists in Creative Limerick, established a library in Moyross, have given their full backing along with financial support to the Royal, and replaced the chistmas lights.

They are currently scouting for funding and a location for a new city library and city museum. They successfully lobbied the government for funding to buy the Patrick St. block and are now putting together a comprehensive plan for this site. The Orbital Route when completed should provide for the efficient movement of traffic and also a more pleasant experience for shoppers.

While the city does have an image problem, it certainly isn't that different to other cities in the country and the city council have no control over gardaí anyway. Also it should be borne in mind that the council is not all that powerful and has both an extremely limited budget and range of powers.

Now it does appear that I'm a cheer leader for the city council but I'm merely presenting the facts. Essentially what I'm saying flutered, is that your post is full of hyperbole and you should take a rational and objective view of the situation.

flutered

pigtown wrote: »

Exaggerate much? The 'city fathers' have actually spearheaded the badly needed revamp of the city centre. This includes Baker Place, William St., Sarsfield St., Upper William St., Bedford Row Upper and Lower, Thomas St., Foxes Bow, Little William St., Little Catherine St., parts of Catherine St., Shannon St., Lower Gerald Griffan St., and Henry St., Agustinian Lane, St. John's Square, and Clancy and O'Callaghan Strands which includes a new park that I can't remember the name of. It is going to proceed with the revamp of Harvey's and Howley's Quays in the next few months and I'm pretty sure the pedestrianisation of O'Connell St. will be starting soon.

The council also oversaw the redevelopment of the City Gallery, purchased the Belltable Arts Centre, helped set up the first scheme providing free premises to artists in Creative Limerick, established a library in Moyross, have given their full backing along with financial support to the Royal, and replaced the chistmas lights.

They are currently scouting for funding and a location for a new city library and city museum. They successfully lobbied the government for funding to buy the Patrick St. block and are now putting together a comprehensive plan for this site. The Orbital Route when completed should provide for the efficient movement of traffic and also a more pleasant experience for shoppers.

While the city does have an image problem, it certainly isn't that different to other cities in the country and the city council have no control over gardaí anyway. Also it should be borne in mind that the council is not all that powerful and has both an extremely limited budget and range of powers.

Now it does appear that I'm a cheer leader for the city council but I'm merely presenting the facts. Essentially what I'm saying flutered, is that your post is full of hyperbole and you should take a rational and objective view of the situation.

yes i have, i have lived worked played and repesented my my city for more years than you can shake a stick at, you have brought up, what they are trying to do, i am stating what they will not or do not want to do, what you do not admit to, look after the obvious first, then perhaps the rest may follow.

flutered

Insect Overlord wrote: »

The rest of the post makes sense. The bit I quoted does not (unless you're into Conspiracy Theories, for which there is an entire dedicated forum).

naw you are still selective, conspiricy, for you i would suggest a zombie fourm, perhaps there is one on boards, if not then google is your buddy.

Insect Overlord

flutered wrote: »

naw you are still selective, conspiricy, for you i would suggest a zombie fourm, perhaps there is one on boards, if not then google is your buddy.

The joke's on you there.

Zombie Survival Forum

Seriously though, I can't make any sense of your post above. Tracksuits, socks, cider and cigarettes? Explain it for me, at least.

langdang

Insect Overlord wrote: »

The joke's on you there.

Zombie Survival Forum

Seriously though, I can't make any sense of your post above. Tracksuits, socks, cider and cigarettes? Explain it for me, at least.

It's a little bitter and twisted, but surely the gist of it is plain enough. Couldn't blame someone for being that angry and disappointed at how the city has been left to stagnate!
To your credit, compared to some of the other mod circle, at least you haven't just swooped in with another mod buddy making a few smart comments before locking the thread.

Brennans Row

Limerick Store Scoops Retail Excellence Award (live95fm)

A Limerick city centre retailer has scooped a top award from Retail Excellence Ireland.

McGovern's on Bedford Row has been named best store in its category at an awards ceremony attended by President Michael D Higgins.

Well done McGoverns!

ZombieBride

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WhhSBgd3KI

Cityslicker1

pigtown wrote: »

Exaggerate much? The 'city fathers' have actually spearheaded the badly needed revamp of the city centre. This includes Baker Place, William St., Sarsfield St., Upper William St., Bedford Row Upper and Lower, Thomas St., Foxes Bow, Little William St., Little Catherine St., parts of Catherine St., Shannon St., Lower Gerald Griffan St., and Henry St., Agustinian Lane, St. John's Square, and Clancy and O'Callaghan Strands which includes a new park that I can't remember the name of. It is going to proceed with the revamp of Harvey's and Howley's Quays in the next few months and I'm pretty sure the pedestrianisation of O'Connell St. will be starting soon.

The council also oversaw the redevelopment of the City Gallery, purchased the Belltable Arts Centre, helped set up the first scheme providing free premises to artists in Creative Limerick, established a library in Moyross, have given their full backing along with financial support to the Royal, and replaced the chistmas lights.

They are currently scouting for funding and a location for a new city library and city museum. They successfully lobbied the government for funding to buy the Patrick St. block and are now putting together a comprehensive plan for this site. The Orbital Route when completed should provide for the efficient movement of traffic and also a more pleasant experience for shoppers.

While the city does have an image problem, it certainly isn't that different to other cities in the country and the city council have no control over gardaí anyway. Also it should be borne in mind that the council is not all that powerful and has both an extremely limited budget and range of powers.

Now it does appear that I'm a cheer leader for the city council but I'm merely presenting the facts. Essentially what I'm saying flutered, is that your post is full of hyperbole and you should take a rational and objective view of the situation.

Lets hope they won't pedestriaise O' Connell street. Can you imagine how dead the city centre will feel if they go ahead with this. Only for the constant flow of traffic on that street the place would be a complete ghost town. The traffic is the only thing that gives the place some sort of buzz at the moment. There's more than enough pedestrianised streets in the city. I could see some sort of logic if they were considering pedestrianising William street as there's some shops on that street. There won't be enough people to fill that area to make it seem vibrant as there's nothing on that stretch only Brown Thomas, Bank of Ireland and a couple of takeaways. Shop street in Galway works as being a main pedestrianised street because it's narrow and quaint with lots of busy bars and restaurants. Limerick is nothing like Galway. They should take Corks St.Patrick street as an example. Instead they should consider reducing the speed of cars by adding speed bumps to the area selected to pedestrianise, widen the footpaths with high quality attractive paving with the addition of street furniture and lots of trees. I think closing off that street to traffic is a big mistake.

pigtown

Cityslicker1 wrote: »

Lets hope they won't pedestriaise O' Connell street. Can you imagine how dead the city centre will feel if they go ahead with this. Only for the constant flow of traffic on that street the place would be a complete ghost town. The traffic is the only thing that gives the place some sort of buzz at the moment. There's more than enough pedestrianised streets in the city. I could see some sort of logic if they were considering pedestrianising William street as there's some shops on that street. There won't be enough people to fill that area to make it seem vibrant as there's nothing on that stretch only Brown Thomas, Bank of Ireland and a couple of takeaways. Shop street in Galway works as being a main pedestrianised street because it's narrow and quaint with lots of busy bars and restaurants. Limerick is nothing like Galway. They should take Corks St.Patrick street as an example. Instead they should consider reducing the speed of cars by adding speed bumps to the area selected to pedestrianise, widen the footpaths with high quality attractive paving with the addition of street furniture and lots of trees. I think closing off that street to traffic is a big mistake.

Ya I'm not really sure about this. I know what you mean about it being fairly quiet but I don't think Bedford Row was all that busy before it was pedestrianised and look at it now. I think it could be a good thing though because it's wide enough to serve as kind of a central square.

I've just looked at the street on street view and between Supermac's and Leavy's Shoes there is only one vacant unit; the Sony Centre. Between the Chicken Hut and the old Fergusan's Pharmacy, the pharmacy is vacant as is Sequoia Lane and I think Nevil's Shoes, but planning applications have been submitted to open cafes in Sequoia Lane and Fergusan's.
On the other side, Dunnes and Acc Bank are empty and so is the unit beside Carl Scarpa. All in all the part they propose to pedestrianise houses Brown Thomas, Compu B (the apple store), a church, the Munster Rugby Store, 3 fast food places and the BofI headquarters among others. Assuming both proposed cafes open there could be on street seating for up to 8 premises. If these places don't draw a crowd then I don't think anything will.

Cityslicker1

pigtown wrote: »

Ya I'm not really sure about this. I know what you mean about it being fairly quiet but I don't think Bedford Row was all that busy before it was pedestrianised and look at it now. I think it could be a good thing though because it's wide enough to serve as kind of a central square.

I've just looked at the street on street view and between Supermac's and Leavy's Shoes there is only one vacant unit; the Sony Centre. Between the Chicken Hut and the old Fergusan's Pharmacy, the pharmacy is vacant as is Sequoia Lane and I think Nevil's Shoes, but planning applications have been submitted to open cafes in Sequoia Lane and Fergusan's.
On the other side, Dunnes and Acc Bank are empty and so is the unit beside Carl Scarpa. All in all the part they propose to pedestrianise houses Brown Thomas, Compu B (the apple store), a church, the Munster Rugby Store, 3 fast food places and the BofI headquarters among others. Assuming both proposed cafes open there could be on street seating for up to 8 premises. If these places don't draw a crowd then I don't think anything will.

Lets hope it's a success..but after 6pm the city centre is dead and without the traffic on the street in the evening it will be just eerie

hightower1

Its really all excuses, pedestrianizing streets and adding parking is all small steps but ultimately like anything else to do with sales and footfall - if you give people what they want you will be busy. Shoppers want good and unique stores they cant find anywhere else.

If you haven't got any shops to tempt people into town no amount of events, pedestrianizing , bands, etc will work. City planners need to be out finishing / starting the Opera center and banging down unique retailers doors giving incentives to get them set up in there.

If you have shops like Gap, Starbucks, Bershka, M&S etc then people have a reason to come to the city center rather than outlying shopping centers. There is only so much consumer money in the county and the sooner the clowns in power start treating the city center as being in competition for those euros with the likes of the cresent the better.

pigtown

pigtown wrote: »

Ya I'm not really sure about this. I know what you mean about it being fairly quiet but I don't think Bedford Row was all that busy before it was pedestrianised and look at it now. I think it could be a good thing though because it's wide enough to serve as kind of a central square.

I've just looked at the street on street view and between Supermac's and Leavy's Shoes there is only one vacant unit; the Sony Centre. Between the Chicken Hut and the old Fergusan's Pharmacy, the pharmacy is vacant as is Sequoia Lane and I think Nevil's Shoes, but planning applications have been submitted to open cafes in Sequoia Lane and Fergusan's.
On the other side, Dunnes and Acc Bank are empty and so is the unit beside Carl Scarpa. All in all the part they propose to pedestrianise houses Brown Thomas, Compu B (the apple store), a church, the Munster Rugby Store, 3 fast food places and the BofI headquarters among others. Assuming both proposed cafes open there could be on street seating for up to 8 premises. If these places don't draw a crowd then I don't think anything will.

Just want to make it clear that Nevil's is definitely not closed. Sorry about that.

grenache

europa11 wrote: »

Hardly shocking news. Some reasons here, there are more:

Doughnut effect.

Highest commercial rates in Ireland.

Poorly lit streets, with beggars and junkies appearing "out of the dark". A night-time shopping experience no one needs.

Feckless City Councillors who really don't give a fug.

Unpoliced streets during daytime (such as William St. and Cruises St) taken over by hoodie scum, tappers and pojama people. Saturday being a striking example of such btw, never a cop in sight, intimidating enough for locals, whatever about visitors.

The perennial parking problems.

Lack of stimulus (festivals, events, promotions), again down to City Council who are downright negligent to say the least in this respect esp. when compared to Galway.

The never-ending M&S saga.

...feel free to add on.....

Only for the fact that I worked in the city centre for 5 years until last year, I would never have gone there to do my shopping. Pretty much for all the reasons given above.

But especially because of the lack of decent shops and tracksuits wandering everywhere.

It's certainly nowhere near an enjoyable shopping experience as Cork.

seachto7

City centre is great if you have a coffee addiction, want to buy "sports wear", or want to eat fast food/takeaways all the time.

Cartman78

The doughnut effect has had a huge impact on the city alright - esp. Childers Road and the B&Q/Harvey Norman area (the exact name for this escapes me at the minute) but I actually think the city centre has improved in many ways in the last 12-18 mths

As alluded to by previous posters, there is now a thriving coffee culture around the Thomas St. area which is great to see and there are a growing number of decent restaurants which seem to be thriving.

The vacant units are a problem and unless the authorities get the thumb out and get creative, this is going to be a long-term problem.
The 'rough' element that people have mentioned is always going to be there. This is less visible in the likes of Cork and Galway perhaps but tbh I feel just as safe on the streets of Limerick as anywhere else in Ireland

Kess73

Cartman78 wrote: »

The doughnut effect has had a huge impact on the city alright - esp. Childers Road and the B&Q/Harvey Norman area (the exact name for this escapes me at the minute) but I actually think the city centre has improved in many ways in the last 12-18 mths

As alluded to by previous posters, there is now a thriving coffee culture around the Thomas St. area which is great to see and there are a growing number of decent restaurants which seem to be thriving.

The vacant units are a problem and unless the authorities get the thumb out and get creative, this is going to be a long-term problem.
The 'rough' element that people have mentioned is always going to be there. This is less visible in the likes of Cork and Galway perhaps but tbh I feel just as safe on the streets of Limerick as anywhere else in Ireland

There is a very simple reason as to why it is less visible in those two cities (although there is always some around) and that is regular foot patrols day and night. Foot patrols that do make a beeline for any rowdy groups and that do move messers on so that they don't stay in one location.

Now I am sure that things are not perfect in those cities, but regular and visible foot patrols do have an impact especially when those doing the patrols are proactive in nipping things in the bud.

As someone who is in Galway and Cork each week it is hard not to notice the differences in things like garda patrols compared to Limerick, and as someone who has a business in each of those cities it is also very difficult not to notice the differences between trying to operate a business there and here. Given it is all the one country there should be a pretty uniform way of getting things done, but I can say from personal experience that Limerick is still more in tune with the kind of parish pump local authorities etc of a town than that of a growning city when compared with Galway and Cork, especially the latter. Plus there is a big difference in the basic cost of running a business in Cork city than a similar sized business in a similar location in Limerick city. Frighteningly the Limerick costs seem more in tune with Dublin prices when cost per square foot is looked at.

There are a lot of very clever people in Limerick with some very good ideas for new small to mid sized ventures, but the cost does put many off and has caused many to set up outside of Limerick city.

nebusfan

One major problem affecting Limerick City I find is the council have allowed over the 'growth times' a lot of out of town shopping areas on the outskirts,such as Parkway Retail Park,Childers Road,Coonagh etc... and because of the terrible traffic management in the city centre which is chronic in the peaks,people are just driving to out of town centres because it is more easy than the drag into the city centre. Also because some shops have closed their branch or store in the city centre,maybe because of the high cost of rents and open a one up in a retail park and as a consequence there ia a direct result as footfall drops in the city centre because the number and type of shops dissapear as people drift away. The city needs investment and some tidying up,look at the closed store on Liddy Street it has been empty for a few years. A lot of problems in Limerick also stem from poor access by public transport,the buses are caught up in traffic,no priorities,crap parking so the buses can't even access main stops in the city centre and the garda don't seem that bothered.,waiting facilities are very poor,virtually no shelters and rubbish information,many stops don't even have times or details of which buses stop there!!How on earth can a visitor plan a trip or even a resident.The bus and rail station is on the wrong side of town,well away from the main shopping area and is badly signed.Maybe look at holding events in the city,creating public squares,entertainment to bring people in.Create a possitive attitude in the city,create a buzz and start promoting the city centre more and attract more people to come as the main destination.LETS HOPE SOMETHING CHANGES SOON or the place will wither and die,and that would be a major shame.

pigtown

nebusfan wrote: »

One major problem affecting Limerick City I find is the council have allowed over the 'growth times' a lot of out of town shopping areas on the outskirts,such as Parkway Retail Park,Childers Road,Coonagh etc...

And I see in this weeks Leader that certain councillors are trying their best to ignore the new retail strategy for the city and get an Aldi shop to open in the Raheen/Dooradoyle area. Thankfully most of the councillors saw sense and voted against the proposal.

Treehorn

I was out in the Crescent for the first time in about a year last Saturday. The difference footfall wise with the city was unbelievable.

It isn't a matter of time before the city is dead.

It is dead already.

I think I'll be shopping in the Crescent in future, the city has nothing to offer and I'm sick of the scum loitering about the place.

Kess73

pigtown wrote: »

And I see in this weeks Leader that certain councillors are trying their best to ignore the new retail strategy for the city and get an Aldi shop to open in the Raheen/Dooradoyle area. Thankfully most of the councillors saw sense and voted against the proposal.

Thought it was a bit stupid for them top vote against it tbh. All blocking it does is cause some new jobs not to be made in the Limerick area because Aldi won't be opening a unit in the city centre.I'm sure Aldi will try again, and if they head a dead end they will just open a store in some other county and bring jobs there instead.

The only result from blocking it is less jobs for the Limerick area, because the same guys blocking it sure as hell don'thave anything else lined up for the city centre.

The obsession with the doughnut effect really does muddy the waters a great deal and suits councillors as it gives them something to pont the finger at as a handy excuse for failures in the city centre.

Funny how many of them stayed quiet over the years when long term Limerick businesses started to leave the city centre. Names like Clancys, and Kielys. Funny how they stayed very quiet when people from those places came out and said why they were leaving the city centre.

Itis also funny how they stay quiet when say a new Connolys store or the like opens in the Crescent Shopping centre. Surely things like that should fall under their doughnut effect outrage? After all would it not take business from the city centre stores?


Nah the doughnut effect is a factor, but it is being used as an excuse for Limerick people to lap up lest they start asking deeper questions about why Limerick city is a retail dead end.

kilburn

You cant blame the City Council for the county council building big shopping centres on every approach road into the city.

TBF was it not the county councillors who blocked the Aldi?

pigtown

Kess73 wrote: »

Thought it was a bit stupid for them top vote against it tbh. All blocking it does is cause some new jobs not to be made in the Limerick area because Aldi won't be opening a unit in the city centre.I'm sure Aldi will try again, and if they head a dead end they will just open a store in some other county and bring jobs there instead.

The only result from blocking it is less jobs for the Limerick area, because the same guys blocking it sure as hell don'thave anything else lined up for the city centre.

The obsession with the doughnut effect really does muddy the waters a great deal and suits councillors as it gives them something to pont the finger at as a handy excuse for failures in the city centre.

Funny how many of them stayed quiet over the years when long term Limerick businesses started to leave the city centre. Names like Clancys, and Kielys. Funny how they stayed very quiet when people from those places came out and said why they were leaving the city centre.

Itis also funny how they stay quiet when say a new Connolys store or the like opens in the Crescent Shopping centre. Surely things like that should fall under their doughnut effect outrage? After all would it not take business from the city centre stores?


Nah the doughnut effect is a factor, but it is being used as an excuse for Limerick people to lap up lest they start asking deeper questions about why Limerick city is a retail dead end.

If Aldi believe they have the custom for another store in Limerick then they would be stupid not to open it, and they already have city centre stores in other areas so I don't see why Limerick should be any different.

And while I don't disagree with the rest of your post, I'm happy that the council seem to be sticking to the retail strategy so far. It can only be a good thing.

pigtown

kilburn wrote: »

You cant blame the City Council for the county council building big shopping centres on every approach road into the city.

TBF was it not the county councillors who blocked the Aldi?

Yes they did. I was pointing out that some county councillors still want more retail in the suburbs. Thankfully it's only some though.

Kess73

pigtown wrote: »

If Aldi believe they have the custom for another store in Limerick then they would be stupid not to open it, and they already have city centre stores in other areas so I don't see why Limerick should be any different.

And while I don't disagree with the rest of your post, I'm happy that the council seem to be sticking to the retail strategy so far. It can only be a good thing.

Where do they have actual city centre stores? They have stores on the outskirts of cities, but I cannot think of one Aldi store complete with car park in Cork city centre, Galway city centre, Dublin city centre, Limerick city centre or Waterford city centre.

They only places where they(or Lidl) turn up in a central location is small towns like Tipp town.


They are not a high street type company, and as such don't set up in city centres, so all the councillors blocked was a company that would not be coming into the city centre anyway and by blocking it they are potentially stopping new jobs from coming.

If things are at the point where an Aldi store is seen as some kind of serious threat to the city's retail plan, then it must be one hell of a weak plan, either that or certain councillors are jumping through hoops to keep certain business people from having genuine competition on their doorsteps.

I might believe there is an actual retail strategy when I see new businesses coming to Limerick city centre and not get to see years of Limerick Leader articles where nameless sources tell of huge multinationals and huge projects that are always just on the cusp of happening.

It actually makes for interesting reading if one takes the time to scour through various headlines where a long list of councillors and city planners made bold claims in interviews about various things that were about the start in 30 days, 60 days, 90 days and so on. It makes for a long list of "huge jobs boost for Limerick" headlines regarding the city centre that for the most part has amounted to nowt.

I think I am just a bit snarly on the topic of retail and other businesses in Limerick city centre at present.

Kess73

pigtown wrote: »

Yes they did. I was pointing out that some county councillors still want more retail in the suburbs. Thankfully it's only some though.

Nothing wrong with more retail in the suburbs as long as it is something that will meet a demand in a particular location or provide genuine competition in that area.

There are plenty of different retail companies that could open in the suburbs that would not have a negative impact on the city centre, but that would have a very positive effect on the unemployment figures.

pigtown

Kess73 wrote: »

Where do they have actual city centre stores? They have stores on the outskirts of cities, but I cannot think of one Aldi store complete with car park in Cork city centre, Galway city centre, Dublin city centre, Limerick city centre or Waterford city centre.

They only places where they(or Lidl) turn up in a central location is small towns like Tipp town.


They are not a high street type company, and as such don't set up in city centres, so all the councillors blocked was a company that would not be coming into the city centre anyway and by blocking it they are potentially stopping new jobs from coming.

If things are at the point where an Aldi store is seen as some kind of serious threat to the city's retail plan, then it must be one hell of a weak plan, either that or certain councillors are jumping through hoops to keep certain business people from having genuine competition on their doorsteps.

I might believe there is an actual retail strategy when I see new businesses coming to Limerick city centre and not get to see years of Limerick Leader articles where nameless sources tell of huge multinationals and huge projects that are always just on the cusp of happening.

It actually makes for interesting reading if one takes the time to scour through various headlines where a long list of councillors and city planners made bold claims in interviews about various things that were about the start in 30 days, 60 days, 90 days and so on. It makes for a long list of "huge jobs boost for Limerick" headlines regarding the city centre that for the most part has amounted to nowt.

I think I am just a bit snarly on the topic of retail and other businesses in Limerick city centre at present.

They have a store on either Moore St. or Parnell St. in Dublin, can't remember which.
I don't think the point is to stop Aldi from opening in the suburbs, but the store limit is 900sq.m and Aldi want this extended to 1400. It's the extension that the councillors are against.

Kess73 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with more retail in the suburbs as long as it is something that will meet a demand in a particular location or provide genuine competition in that area.

There are plenty of different retail companies that could open in the suburbs that would not have a negative impact on the city centre, but that would have a very positive effect on the unemployment figures.

Well I think there should be absolutely no more retail in the suburbs apart from convenience stores and the like. I read somewhere that Westport town council at the beginning of the boom made a resolution to ban out of town retail centres. The retailers protested and petitioned but the council didn't give in and the retailers opened in the town centre.