Star Wars: The Force Awakens [** SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD **]

Sad Professor

Are we talking about the character or the quality of the performance and dialogue? Because it sounds like we're getting into "this is how I would have made the movie" territory. "I stole the jacket" is a better line but a different character. Poe wouldn't say something like that because he's not Han Solo. As for the delivery, clearly Poe has a bit of Luke Skywalker in him. Hamill got a lot of flak for his performance in the OT, but in retrospect Hamill was a more versatile actor than he was given credit for and he played Luke exactly right, even if that wasn't clear to people in '77.

Isaac has also talked about the challenges of playing a simple, sincere character.

It seems like in the bigger movies it’s hard to find that kind of a role. The lead character in big films rarely is allowed the room to have the depth you brought to Llewyn Davis. Are you able to bring that kind of depth to a Star Wars movie at all?

It’s a different thing. Sometimes simplicity is what is needed, and there’s nothing simple about simplicity. It’s way harder to do, because you don’t have as many tools to express an idea. You’re working with just primary colors and just basic shapes. To try and elicit a feeling of truth with limited things can be much more challenging. I’m not sure I did that with this one, I hope I did some.

But it’s also like an orchestra. It’s a symphonic thing. Maybe I was the oboe who flies in and does this thing but it’s a specific sound that’s needed to complete the sound of the symphony. It’s a different thing, but it has its own set of challenges that are just as legitimate as all the subtle shades that you can create with an introspective character study.

thegreengoblin

Bought the Blu Ray on Saturday and slowly making my way through the extra features. Really enjoyed the main documentary 'Secrets of The Force Awakens'. It's well made, it's insightful and is the perfect complement to the film. Almost shed a tear at the on-set presentation to Harrison Ford after his final scene!

Couple of things about the film: When Threepio brings BB8 to see R2D2 and explains why he's in his dormant state...should BB8 not already be aware of this, seeing as he belongs to the Resistance's top fighter pilot??

Also, that scene where Rey is having her dinner sitting on the sand outside her At-At. There's a great moment where she watches a distant ship soar into the sky and it reminds me of Luke's twin suns scene. It's the little things like this which make Star Wars what it is. Just that sense of yearning and wondering what it's like out there in the galaxy...and all done without the character having to say a single word.

Theboinkmaster

thegreengoblin wrote: »

Bought the Blu Ray on Saturday and slowly making my way through the extra features. Really enjoyed the main documentary 'Secrets of The Force Awakens'. It's well made, it's insightful

Couldn't disagree more what it was very poor. What exact insight did it provide - none.

Have you seen the ep1 documentary "the beginning" now that's insightful

thegreengoblin

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Couldn't disagree more what it was very poor. What exact insight did it provide - none.

Have you seen the ep1 documentary "the beginning" now that's insightful

I've seen it and yeah it is good, certainly more enjoyable than the film.

TFA doc captures the emotion that went into bringing iconic characters back to the big screen after decades of being away. There were contributions from so many people involved in the making of the film. It certainly wasn't a vehicle to just marvel at JJ Abrams. I loved the focus on the 'real world' aspect to the film. You got a sense of what makes Star Wars so special to so many.
Why did you think it was so poor?

johnny_ultimate

I rewatched it last night as well, only second time seeing it. Again, utmost credit has to be paid to the sheer fluency of Mindel and Abram's visual storytelling, especially in the opening hour or so. It's what they do so, so well. There are establishing and transition shots in this more beautiful and rousing than pretty much anything seen in other recent blockbusters. And after the stoic, lifeless cinematography of the prequel trilogy, this is exactly the antidote needed. Like all Abram/Mindel collaborations, the camera moves with genuinely giddy enthusiasm. There's so much energy there, and all without becoming incoherent - as a matter of fact, the way the camera moves only enhances the emotions and potency of everything going on. There's a great little bit where Rey and Finn enter the Falcon, and the camera follows one of them and then the other in one quick shot, really capturing the excitement of the moment - a simple but lovely example of how thought is put into the compositions beyond the sweeping vistas.

As for the film itself, held up to my initially very positive response. Some parts in the middle did seem a little more forced than they did first time around, albeit with plenty of brilliant moments too. But the first and last half hours in particular are vintage Star Wars - joyous, OTT and vivid in the way they should be. Abrams ultimately delivered the sharpest course correction he could. Does it radically alter said course? Definitely not, and I'm absolutely hoping - and optimistic - that Johnson will bring far more new ideas to the series. But I honestly find this unapologetic throwback refreshing in its own way, and while it's a trick that cannot be repeated a second time without souring very quickly, I still think The Force Awakens is an absolute blast.

fryup

when is it out to rent??

SarahBM

I am just back from Orlando and I have to say the Star Wars The Force Awakens stuff at Disney Hollywood Studios were brilliant.
I also met Kylo Ren and all I have to say is that mo fo is creepy as hell! quizzed me about my connections with the resistance and everything! They have this little Jedi training school for the kids. There is a very cool film called the path to the Jedi and then there is this open air bandstand where they bring out all the characters and put on a bit of a display. and every couple of hours Capt. Phasma and her Stormtroopers march through the park. Very well done.
There was a area called the Launch Pad that I didn't get to see which had props and stuff, but we just didn't have time to go back.
I watched TFA on the plane on the way over, and I even enjoyed it on the tiny screen.
Cannot wait to get the DVD

expectationlost

what is kylo ren's motivation?

Zubeneschamali

expectationlost wrote: »

what is kylo ren's motivation?

He's bad.

But not as bad as Mr. Snoke.

expectationlost

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

He's bad.

thats not a motivation, why is he bad?

tigger123

expectationlost wrote: »

thats not a motivation, why is he bad?

I'm assuming its going to be revealed as we find out more of his back story over the next few films.

Sad Professor

Kylo's motivation, as he says himself, is to "finish what [Vader] started", or rather what he thinks Vader started. Presumedly imposing order on the galaxy, destroying the Jedi, etc, etc. In Episode 7 he seems mainly concerned with destroying the last vestiges of good in himself, which means killing his father and tracking down Luke Skywalker so he can kill him too.

Why did he turn bad? He was seduced by the dark side for reasons we have yet to learn.

johnny_ultimate

He, like his grandfather and uncle before him, finds himself torn between the dark side and light side of the force. Obviously, the former influence has proven most powerful. But he also finds himself actively conflicted and unstable in his positioning - hence the impulsive emotional outbursts (or, let's be honest, tantrums) and his ultimate decision to kill his father and more fully embrace the dark side.

For a series that has always dealt in broad stroke good vs evil paradigms, I think Kylo's motivations and characterisation is one of most intriguing and potentially fruitful realisations of that so far. It's still broad strokes, but certainly I already find him more interesting as a character than Darth Vader was initially (the 'Anakin Skywalker' side of the character only really emerging in Empire and Jedi). I still think there's plenty to learn about him - and indeed several other characters - and hopefully they have been created with a three film arc in mind.

Zubeneschamali

expectationlost wrote: »

thats not a motivation, why is he bad?

This is a Star Wars movie, you are overanalysing it.

Even if a reason is revealed later, it'll be some cliché from the Hollywood scriptwriters folder.

It is enough to know that he is Bad, and either he will change and become Good, or he will be destroyed.

Most probably both.

expectationlost

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

This is a Star Wars movie, you are overanalysing it.

Even if a reason is revealed later, it'll be some cliché from the Hollywood scriptwriters folder.

It is enough to know that he is Bad, and either he will change and become Good, or he will be destroyed.

Most probably both.

asking what a film character's motivation is is over analysing?

expectationlost

tigger123 wrote: »

I'm assuming its going to be revealed as we find out more of his back story over the next few films.

are we not allowed to see the motivation of somebody in the film thats shown?

Osmosis Jones

expectationlost wrote: »

are we not allowed to see the motivation of somebody in the film thats shown?

He's the grandson of Vader, his temptations lie on both sides of the force. Snoke has played him much like the Emporer did to Vader. He's being used, he's just a kid sure, a powerful one at that.

expectationlost

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

He, like his grandfather and uncle before him, finds himself torn between the dark side and light side of the force. Obviously, the former influence has proven most powerful. But he also finds himself actively conflicted and unstable in his positioning - hence the impulsive emotional outbursts (or, let's be honest, tantrums) and his ultimate decision to kill his father and more fully embrace the dark side.

For a series that has always dealt in broad stroke good vs evil paradigms, I think Kylo's motivations and characterisation is one of most intriguing and potentially fruitful realisations of that so far. It's still broad strokes, but certainly I already find him more interesting as a character than Darth Vader was initially (the 'Anakin Skywalker' side of the character only really emerging in Empire and Jedi). I still think there's plenty to learn about him - and indeed several other characters - and hopefully they have been created with a three film arc in mind.

I know lucas was riffing off white hat/black hat cowboys etc (and the heroes journey etc) but even those guys had a motivation didn't they? Kylo Ren doesn't seem to have one, its like JJ has decided to invert film and leave out his motivation, the dark side itself (or badness) isn't a motivation, its seems to be the absence of motivation.

expectationlost

expectationlost wrote: »

are we not allowed to see the motivation of somebody in the film thats shown?

This is something which annoys me of late. These are not weekly TV shows, we shouldn't have to wait for another film for this. The story can be over all films but each film should be self contained and enjoyable in their own rights

Osmosis Jones

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is something which annoys me of late. These are not weekly TV shows, we shouldn't have to wait for another film for this. The story can be over all films but each film should be self contained and enjoyable in their own rights

You don't think TFA was enjoyable?

Osmosis Jones

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

You don't think TFA was enjoyable?

It's a good spectacle but far too much a clone of the original.
JJ has form there with Star Trek Into Darkness ripping Wrath of Kahn, to be fair

But why would you pick that one word, given that it had nothing really to do with my point

Mickeroo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is something which annoys me of late. These are not weekly TV shows, we shouldn't have to wait for another film for this. The story can be over all films but each film should be self contained and enjoyable in their own rights

It's the first part of a series, you don't put all your cards on the table in the first act. We know a lot more about Ren now than folks did about Darth Vader at the end of Star Wars. I thought the film was pretty self contained too, I'm a little baffled at folks saying the don't know his motivations tbh, we know a lot more about him than we do Rey at this point. He was the most fleshed out character in the entire film I thought.

expectationlost

Mickeroo wrote: »

It's the first part of a series, you don't put all your cards on the table in the first act. We know a lot more about Ren now than folks did about Darth Vader at the end of Star Wars. I thought the film was pretty self contained too, I'm a little baffled at folks saying the don't know his motivations tbh, we know a lot more about him than we do Rey at this point. He was the most fleshed out character in the entire film I thought.

did Rey kill her father or some such? this is why one wonders about his motivation.

Osmosis Jones

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's a good spectacle but far too much a clone of the original.
JJ has form there with Star Trek Into Darkness ripping Wrath of Kahn, to be fair

But why would you pick that one word, given that it had nothing really to do with my point

Well then on your whole point, the movie was quite self-contained, characters had their arcs, we had a clear beginning, middle and end and the goal was achieved. It's a story within a bigger universe so of course we'll find out more in the next installment but that doesn't make this movie worse.

Mickeroo

expectationlost wrote: »

did Rey kill her father or some such? this is why one wonders about his motivation.

What?

Osmosis Jones

expectationlost wrote: »

did Rey kill her father or some such? this is why one wonders about his motivation.

What

Edit: what he said^^

expectationlost

Mickeroo wrote: »

What?

It's the first part of a series, you don't put all your cards on the table in the first act. We know a lot more about Ren now than folks did about Darth Vader at the end of Star Wars. I thought the film was pretty self contained too, I'm a little baffled at folks saying the don't know his motivations tbh, we know a lot more about him than we do Rey at this point. He was the most fleshed out character in the entire film I thought.

I don't wonder so much about Rey's motivation are (although they are wait for her parents...escape people chasing her... wait for her parents) because she doesn't do something so extreme as to murder her parent.

expectationlost

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Well then on your whole point, the movie was quite self-contained, characters had their arcs, we had a clear beginning, middle and end and the goal was achieved. It's a story within a bigger universe so of course we'll find out more in the next installment but that doesn't make this movie worse.

but but a character kills his father and we don't know why.

Osmosis Jones

expectationlost wrote: »

but but a character kills his father and we don't know why.

In his mind Han Solo isn't his father, he's no longer Ben he is Kylo Ren. Han is an obstacle that he has to overcome to fully commit to the dark side and he does so. It's not totally explained 100% but Kylo Ren killing Han Solo is definitely not out of the blue or uncharacteristic.

In Star Wars the only line we got about why Vader did what he did was that he was 'seduced by the dark side'

Mickeroo

expectationlost wrote: »

but but a character kills his father and we don't know why.

You dont know why I thought it was spelled out quite clearly, it was pretty much the source for his character's conflict and inner turmoil over the course of the film. The act of killing his father was him overcoming his attraction to the light side in much the same way Luke overcame the dark side by not killing his father in Return of the Jedi. It was quite literally a juxtaposition of what happened with Luke and Vader.