need an IRISH passport to buy alcohol??

Assassin saphir

Ellis Dee wrote: »

And what a hysterical and generalising response to my comment about about ONE shop assistant, who refuses to recognise a foreign passport in a country that is doing its damnedest to attract foreign visitors. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I respect everyone who does their job well - be it however so "menial" - and have only contempt for those who give customers bad service. I stand by my comment that the assistant in question must be at best semi-literate, because it does not take much education or intelligence to recognise a foreign passport, which will probably have English text in it as well.

Are you seriously suggesting that someone who refuses to sell alcohol to young (but over the legal age) Polish, Russian, German or Swedish visitors to our country deserves respect?:eek:

I suspect that you are the person who has a problem with snobbery and I suggest you try and acquire a bit more cop-on to add to the degree that you seem to think made you too good to be a shop assistant.:D

It's nothing to do with literacy it about following a companies policy. Some stores accept different ids. Hardly the fault of the person serving. If you have an issue with it take it up with the company.

This is also the case to foreign passports, not my rules but I'm not going to risk my job by taking them if a company says not to.


Where did I say that I was too good to be a shop assistant?? I enjoy my job. It was your comment about some " silly little cow, probably illiterate" that I thought was uncalled for all because she works in Dunnes. She is only following company rules/policies, doing her job and you feel you have a right to judge her and imply that she is stupid.

RADIUS

MadsL wrote: »

I was asking if this below was an observation or an expectation...




And finally you clarified that you would not support one passport as "superior" to another when you said:



Nothing else. Carry on.

I am sure the PC brigade will thank you for holding me to account.

ResearchWill

Feathers wrote: »

From what I can see, the act governing it specifically mentions both passport and drivers license as valid forms of 'age documents' as it puts it.

Do you have any references (off Boards.ie ) that show this has been overturned since? Not saying your wrong, just interested.

TBH, I think to protect the rights of people who are under 21, there should be a form of ID that shops are obliged to take, so long as the photo looks like you, hasn't expired etc. & which if turn out to be false, they won't get prosecuted.

The idea that drivers licence is specifically mentioned but most places won't take it is bizarre. If they're too easily forged it should be the problem of the government, not Dunnes Stores or anyone else.

This case sets out all the law in this area, it is clear the only defence to supplying alcohol is Garda national age card, the section you referred to relates I believe to allowing a person on the premises but as I said the case sets out all the law in this area. BTW the case is going to the Supreme Court.

http://courts.ie/judgments.nsf/6681dee4565ecf2c80256e7e0052005b/491cd9c28228ffbe802576bf004b7705?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,Waxy

MadsL

ResearchWill wrote: »

This case sets out all the law in this area, it is clear the only defence to supplying alcohol is Garda national age card, the section you referred to relates I believe to allowing a person on the premises but as I said the case sets out all the law in this area. BTW the case is going to the Supreme Court.

http://courts.ie/judgments.nsf/6681dee4565ecf2c80256e7e0052005b/491cd9c28228ffbe802576bf004b7705?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,Waxy

Are you saying that reasonable belief is not a defence??

candy-gal1

RADIUS wrote: »

If it's out of date then it's not valid.

Ah I know, but it wasnt like I was using it to travel or in a different country or something, It was purely as proof of my age so I would think that all theyd need to see on it was that a. it was a real passport, not a faked one.
b. my photo and my DOB
Plus I would have been using that said passport for quite a bit as my form of ID before that too, and it being out of date. Just thought that was a bit wierd.

ResearchWill

MadsL wrote: »

Given that it a defence under the Act to show that you had reasonable grounds to believe the person was over 18, what is the lagal basis for this, and can you point me to any case where this has happened?



Do you think it would therefore be acceptable to accept the EU passport and not the African one?

As requested http://courts.ie/judgments.nsf/6681dee4565ecf2c80256e7e0052005b/491cd9c28228ffbe802576bf004b7705?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,Waxy

I have discussed this case on boards loads of times, it answers your question clearly.

ResearchWill

MadsL wrote: »

Are you saying that reasonable belief is not a defence??

No I am saying that a district court judge and a high court judge said that reasonable belief is not a defence, the case sets that out very very very clearly.

Senior Counsel for the Notice Parties submitted that the subsequent legislative history of the section demonstrates a clear intention on the part of the Legislature to revise the offence by deliberately removing the “other reasonable grounds for believing” aspect of the defence and confining it to the production of an Age Card. This intention was carried into effect by the unequivocal provisions of s. 14(1)(b) of the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2000. Considered in this context the phrase “it shall be a defence” did not mean one of a number of defences but indicated a single defence. By way of contrast Senior Counsel for the Notice Parties pointed to the fact that in s. 34 of the Act of 1988, as substituted by s. 14 of the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003, in relation to what he claimed was the less serious offence of allowing a person under the age of 18 years to be in the bar of a licensed premises, the defence of “using all due diligence” was retained. Further, Senior Counsel for the Notice Parties pointed to the fact that in s. 34A of the Act of 1988, as inserted by s. 15 of the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003, which made it an offence for persons aged between 18 years and 21 years, to be allowed to be in the bar of a licensed premises between certain hours, proof of age may be established by the production of what is called an “Age Document”, which the section defines as including, an age card, a passport, a drivers licence and an E.U. identity card.

MadsL

RADIUS wrote: »

I am sure the PC brigade will thank you for holding me to account.

You were doing well until this shite.

MadsL

ResearchWill wrote: »

No I am saying that a district court judge and a high court judge said that reasonable belief is not a defence, the case sets that out very very very clearly.

Wow, that is quite shocking.

Especially in a tourist economy. Perhaps we should issue age cards at the airport?
I'm not a lawyer, but is that case not a technical one meaning you have to pick a defence rather than have both defences, and that's why they lost the case.

Reasonable belief still being a defence.

Rasmus

To the OP: I doubt it is illegal to refuse a foreign passport and I'd say she made it up on the spot that it is Dunnes policy- maybe that particular store has been having problems with kids with unsuitable IDs etc . Would the case have been that the woman decided that because you ostensibly appeared Irish that you may be in possession of a mate's passport?
What did you do in the end? I'd be asking for the manager..

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

a few weeks ago dunnes stores refused me (a lot) of alcohol using my full irish driving license !

their excuse : " you can drive when 17"

my defense: "its a full irish license and the date of birth is printed on the thing"

Them : "Doesnt matter, you can drive at 17"


i mean wtf ? i actually have no other i,d ... no garda age card cos i never saw the point to those things and my passport is out of date.

so wtf like ?

ResearchWill

MadsL wrote: »

Wow, that is quite shocking.

Especially in a tourist economy. Perhaps we should issue age cards at the airport?
I'm not a lawyer, but is that case not a technical one meaning you have to pick a defence rather than have both defences, and that's why they lost the case.

Reasonable belief still being a defence.

Read the case the bar was charged in DC with 2 offences the first allowing persons underage on the premises that offence has reasonable belief so that charged on the facts dismissed, the second charge related to supply that only allows one defence the age card on the same facts re ID the pub convicted on the second charge.

It's really simple in relation to supply or consumption on a premises the only defence is age card it's all in the case I quoted.

MadsL

ResearchWill wrote: »

Read the case the bar was charged in DC with 2 offences the first allowing persons underage on the premises that offence has reasonable belief so that charged on the facts dismissed, the second charge related to supply that only allows one defence the age card on the same facts re ID the pub convicted on the second charge.

So a bar would be wise not to serve young tourists without a Garda Age Card.

What an absolute clusterfuck of a piece of legislation.

ResearchWill

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

a few weeks ago dunnes stores refused me (a lot) of alcohol using my full irish driving license !

their excuse : " you can drive when 17"

my defense: "its a full irish license and the date of birth is printed on the thing"

Them : "Doesnt matter, you can drive at 17"


i mean wtf ? i actually have no other i,d ... no garda age card cos i never saw the point to those things and my passport is out of date.

so wtf like ?

It's simple get an age card! I'm like so OMG!

jluv

Rasmus wrote: »

To the OP: I doubt it is illegal to refuse a foreign passport and I'd say she made it up on the spot that it is Dunnes policy- maybe that particular store has been having problems with kids with unsuitable IDs etc . Would the case have been that the woman decided that because you ostensibly appeared Irish that you may be in possession of a mate's passport?
What did you do in the end? I'd be asking for the manager..

Think you should check that out before making ASSUMPTIONS about how a person is doing their job. Is your issue with the fact that people need to have a certain ID or the fact that a person in a supermarket follows their company policy.Have you checked the company policy as you are actually stating that she made this decision on her own..

MadsL

ResearchWill wrote: »

It's simple get an age card! I'm like so OMG!

A lot of late 20s early 30s would not have one.

As I said earlier, I can see stores starting to card everyone.

ResearchWill

MadsL wrote: »

So a bar would be wise not to serve young tourists without a Garda Age Card.

What an absolute clusterfuck of a piece of legislation.

Yes it is, but considering the crap legislation that comes out of the Dail are we supprised.

I met a TD a few years ago and I told TD what I personally thought of most recent legislation, when he answered me with "sure we are just told by the minister what way to vote, what would I know about legislation" you can imagine why I face palmed.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

ResearchWill wrote: »

It's simple get an age card! I'm like so OMG!

why ? im 21 like,

just because one shop has a fvcking arse policy i should run away and get an age card ?

no thanks,

i went up the road to molloys and got served there thanks to the lads being dead sound. they only ever asked me for i.d once and guess what ? the driving license did fine ! they remembered me after that !

so no, sorry but i dont plan on getting a garda age card anytime in my life.

i carry my psa license around with me at all times too if my driving license fails me.

ResearchWill

MadsL wrote: »

A lot of late 20s early 30s would not have one.

As I said earlier, I can see stores starting to card everyone.

Well I for one if in my early 30's was being asked for Garda ID I would have been delighted.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

actually,

sainsburys in the north accept my irish driving license as ID and proof of age.

nice twist there.

ResearchWill

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

why ? im 21 like,

just because one shop has a fvcking arse policy i should run away and get an age card ?

no thanks,

i went up the road to molloys and got served there thanks to the lads being dead sound. they only ever asked me for i.d once and guess what ? the driving license did fine ! they remembered me after that !

so no, sorry but i dont plan on getting a garda age card anytime in my life.

i carry my psa license around with me at all times too if my driving license fails me.

It's not a shops policy it's the law and the relevant age to be ID'd is 23 or under. So use passport but don't be supprised if pub or club refuses entry.

MadsL

ResearchWill wrote: »

Well I for one if in my early 30's was being asked for Garda ID I would have been delighted.

In 10 years, they will be carding everyone - I'm in my 40s with grey in my beard and hair and get carded in almost every bar and store in the US.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

ResearchWill wrote: »

It's not a shops policy it's the law and the relevant age to be ID'd is 23 or under. So use passport but don't be supprised if pub or club refuses entry.

I've never in my life being refused from a pub or bar ( a lot of places dont ask for ID from me) but the ones that do ask , my driving license does fine !


actually heres a great one. the dunnes i was refused in, one of the lads i was in school with worked there too. fecking same year in school and everything and i said that to your woman and her reply ?

"ah i was at his 21st last week"

but sorry, still cant !

ResearchWill

MadsL wrote: »

In 10 years, they will be carding everyone - I'm in my 40s with grey in my beard and hair and get carded in almost every bar and store in the US.

I have never been carded in the US, well once when I was 25 by an armed police officer. There was one time in Vegas but that was been escorted out of a casino when I was 40 but that was cause I was sooooooooooooooooo drunk, again the guy was armed that sure sobers you up lol.

SPQRI

BrendaN_f wrote: »

so i have 2 passports, 1 irish 1 non-irish. i use the non-irish one as i.d since i rarely use it and wouldn't be a big deal to lose.

anyway, was in dunnes last night trying to buy some drink, and the lady behind the counter refused to accept my passport as valid i.d. she claimed they can only accept age cards or IRISH passports (by order of the gardai, no less).

im just curious as to how this could possibly be legal??

Are you legally entitled to purchase alcohol?

SPQRI

It's a €3,000 fine for selling alcohol/tobacco to a minor so this person was well within their rights not to serve this person.

BrendaN_f

Rasmus wrote: »

To the OP: I doubt it is illegal to refuse a foreign passport and I'd say she made it up on the spot that it is Dunnes policy- maybe that particular store has been having problems with kids with unsuitable IDs etc . Would the case have been that the woman decided that because you ostensibly appeared Irish that you may be in possession of a mate's passport?
What did you do in the end? I'd be asking for the manager..

i went to the off-licence and bought the same drink (but paid about 2 euro extra lol). hmm i doubt that was the case, given that im half black (yes the other passport is african, didn't mention this because i knew it would affect the direction of the thread)

jluv wrote: »

Think you should check that out before making ASSUMPTIONS about how a person is doing their job. Is your issue with the fact that people need to have a certain ID or the fact that a person in a supermarket follows their company policy.Have you checked the company policy as you are actually stating that she made this decision on her own..

thing is, she didn't say anything about it being company policy, she said it was by order of the gardai

BrendaN_f

SPQRI wrote: »

Are you legally entitled to purchase alcohol?

of course, im 19, i would hardly show her i.d. proving myself to be a minor, would i?

ResearchWill

BrendaN_f wrote: »

i went to the off-licence and bought the same drink (but paid about 2 euro extra lol). hmm i doubt that was the case, given that im half black (yes the other passport is african, didn't mention this because i knew it would affect the direction of the thread)

thing is, she didn't say anything about it being company policy, she said it was by order of the gardai

I would put it down to bad training the only valid ID is Garda Age Card, it would be very wrong to only accept Irish Passport and not others.

SPQRI

BrendaN_f wrote: »

of course, im 19, i would hardly show her i.d. proving myself to be a minor, would i?

It might not have been a valid passport!!!
How was she to know?

And although you are 19, there is not a birthdate stamped on your
forehead to make her decision any easier!