need an IRISH passport to buy alcohol??

Assassin saphir

Ellis Dee wrote: »

My Irish passport expired a couple of years ago and I'll be buggered before I pay €80 to have it renewed now that the new government has taken that benefit away from us senior citizens. Instead, I travel on a Finnish identity card, which I have presented innumerable times at Dublin Airport and the Garda immigration people have never even raised an eyebrow.

It is accepted in all EU Member States and several other countries as well. If it is good enough to get into the country, then it should be good enough for some silly little cow - who is probably barely literate - selling booze in Dunne's Stores.

http://www.infopankki.fi/File/6681e869-8d14-46b7-abfe-56e4928475e1/0/Henkil%C3%B6kortti.jpg

What an ignorant remark to make about shop workers!
I work in an store and for years people looked down their nose at me and alot of other people that worked in retail/ service. I'm not illiterate I hold a degree and have progressed to a senior position within the company from where I started.
It amazing how many people that would have thought retail work was beneath them or for people who were a bit dim are now running in with the cvs looking for a job.

Sorry mods for going off topic but this statement made by Ellis Dee made me mad.

IzzyWizzy

MadsL wrote: »

It is a defence for licensees to have a reasonable belief that the ID is genuine. The Gardai do not go around with "different quality" of IDs, and it is not the retailers business to "verify" ID. The Gardai check if ID is asked for, and if not, prosecute the failure to either ask for ID or knowingly serve underage drinkers.



So EU passports are more "respected" in your view. Interesting.

I think they meant they should be respected as in they should be accepted because EU members are supposed to be treated the same, not that the passport itself is more respected.

RADIUS

RADIUS wrote: »

if it was an EU passport surely it has legal status as a valid a form of photo ID.

The issue of what is a valid form of photo ID only crops up in Ireland and the UK. All other EU countries have official ID cards so theres no messing about with other forms of id (that can be easily forged). A passport should also be acceptable, unless it was in chinese or another script, but I think they always have an english heading for the date of birth category.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Molloys Clondalkin wrote: »

Israel Has extremely tight controls over its passports so whats your troll I mean point.

They like to forge other countries passports for use in assasinations and acts of terrorism. http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish-passports-used-in-Hamas-killing-by-Israel-were-forged-94687919.html

Ravelleman

My understanding of all this is that a legal grey area has essentially emerged concerning identification.

Bizarrely, if someone working in an off licence or pub sells alcohol to a minor who has shown them a passport, which appears valid but really is not, they can still be held responsible and prosecuted. If the same worker asks for a Garda Age Card, which later turns out to be forged or whatever, they can use that as a defence in court. If it had been a passport they would not have been able to rely on that.

So it appears that the Age Card takes legal precedent over the passport in matters related to alcohol. Ludicrous but such is the country we live in.

I believe this was the conclusion on the 'Beer, Wine & Spirits' forum a couple of months ago.

Feathers

Ravelleman wrote: »

My understanding of all this is that a legal grey area has essentially emerged concerning identification.

Bizarrely, if someone working in an off licence or pub sells alcohol to a minor who has shown them a passport, which appears valid but really is not, they can still be held responsible and prosecuted. If the same worker asks for a Garda Age Card, which later turns out to be forged or whatever, they can use that as a defence in court. If it had been a passport they would not have been able to rely on that.

So it appears that the Age Card takes legal precedent over the passport in matters related to alcohol. Ludicrous but such is the country we live in.

I believe this was the conclusion on the 'Beer, Wine & Spirits' forum a couple of months ago.

From what I can see, the act governing it specifically mentions both passport and drivers license as valid forms of 'age documents' as it puts it.

Do you have any references (off Boards.ie ) that show this has been overturned since? Not saying your wrong, just interested.

TBH, I think to protect the rights of people who are under 21, there should be a form of ID that shops are obliged to take, so long as the photo looks like you, hasn't expired etc. & which if turn out to be false, they won't get prosecuted.

The idea that drivers licence is specifically mentioned but most places won't take it is bizarre. If they're too easily forged it should be the problem of the government, not Dunnes Stores or anyone else.

kodoherty93

I have seen them accepting polish passports.

Tbh when I'm in a shop with those bitches (men/women) who think they're high and mightily with they're name badge. When they get anyway arrogant I just call the manager over and generally they will deal with it to prevent a svene

princemuzzy

she should have accepted it simple as that and in regard to the Garda checks sending in young people to try to buy alcohol if you ask said young person and they produce id fake or real you cannot be done for it as it would be entrapment

Ellis Dee

Assassin saphir wrote: »

What an ignorant remark to make about shop workers!
I work in an store and for years people looked down their nose at me and alot of other people that worked in retail/ service. I'm not illiterate I hold a degree and have progressed to a senior position within the company from where I started.
It amazing how many people that would have thought retail work was beneath them or for people who were a bit dim are now running in with the cvs looking for a job.

Sorry mods for going off topic but this statement made by Ellis Dee made me mad.

And what a hysterical and generalising response to my comment about about ONE shop assistant, who refuses to recognise a foreign passport in a country that is doing its damnedest to attract foreign visitors. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I respect everyone who does their job well - be it however so "menial" - and have only contempt for those who give customers bad service. I stand by my comment that the assistant in question must be at best semi-literate, because it does not take much education or intelligence to recognise a foreign passport, which will probably have English text in it as well.

Are you seriously suggesting that someone who refuses to sell alcohol to young (but over the legal age) Polish, Russian, German or Swedish visitors to our country deserves respect?:eek:

I suspect that you are the person who has a problem with snobbery and I suggest you try and acquire a bit more cop-on to add to the degree that you seem to think made you too good to be a shop assistant.:D

OneArt

antodeco wrote: »

Legally, passports are travel documents used for identification for travel purposes. It's actually illegal to carry your passport around with you, as it's property of the state. Most retailers only accept Age Cards because that is all they need to accept. After that, it's Drivers Licence.

That's hilarious, in Germany it's actually illegal for a non-citizen NOT to carry their passport.:eek:

Anyone

Given the possible consequences for selling alcohol to minors(fines,job loss,criminal record) I wouldnt sell to someone in posession of a form of ID I couldn't recognise either.

RADIUS

MadsL wrote: »

So EU passports are more "respected" in your view. Interesting.

What are you trying to imply?

If someone walks into a shop with a passport from some obscure (relatively speaking) non EU country than there is a bigger chance that the person behind the till wont recognize it.

If it has EU written all over it than the opposite is true.

BrendaN_f

RADIUS wrote: »

What are you trying to imply?

If someone walks into a shop with a passport from some obscure (relatively speaking) non EU country than there is a bigger chance that the person behind the till wont recognize it.

If it has EU written all over it than the opposite is true.

every passport i've ever seen has pretty much the exact same form and structure. when they check irish passports in shops, they look at the photo, and the DOB, there are no verification checks for authenticity or anything like that.

RADIUS

BrendaN_f wrote: »

every passport i've ever seen has pretty much the exact same form and structure. when they check irish passports in shops, they look at the photo, and the DOB, there are no verification checks for authenticity or anything like that.

Obviously. I think that goes without saying. You could hardly expect someone manning the local spar to verify passports.

dorkacle

seamus wrote: »

It's not illegal nor discrimination. You can't expect a local shop to accept I.D. issued somewhere else which they have no way of verifying. There's a good risk that someone could present ID claiming to be a passport from some obscure country that's totally fake.

It's nothing to do with nationality. It's to do with quality of ID. If you rocked up with your Irish driving licence you'd be refused too.

Honestly, the lengths some people go to searching for things to get offended about.

Well when I was in the US they wouldn't accept my Garda ID, an told me to come back with my passport...

So what do you use in a foreign country!?

BrendaN_f

RADIUS wrote: »

Obviously. I think that goes without saying. You could hardly expect someone manning the local spar to verify passports.

exactly, so how exactly is it easier to accept an irish passport as opposed to a non-irish one?

RADIUS

BrendaN_f wrote: »

exactly, so how exactly is it easier to accept an irish passport as opposed to a non-irish one?

I never said it was. A passport is a passport but surely in the EU an EU passport MUST be as acceptable as an Irish one by law. Whereas non EU passports may not retain the same clout outside of a a port of entry as forms of ID.

BrendaN_f

RADIUS wrote: »

I never said it was. A passport is a passport but surely in the EU an EU passport MUST be as acceptable as an Irish one by law. Whereas non EU passports may not retain the same clout outside of a a port of entry as forms of ID.

europe or EU? how many shop assistants can list the EU countries?

RADIUS

BrendaN_f wrote: »

europe or EU? how many shop assistants can list the EU countries?

EU of course, I am talking legally here, not some shopkeepers opinion.

In my opinion , this being the EU any EU passport (They have EU written all over them) should be as Valid a form of photo ID as an Irish one. In fact all passports should be viewed equally but as this is EU at the very least, a Polish passport should be as good as an Irish one or a French one for the purpose of proving your age.

Lapin

antodeco wrote: »

It's actually illegal to carry your passport around with you, as it's property of the state.

This statement falls somewhere between being utter bollocks and complete horseshít.

jluv

Ellis Dee wrote: »

And what a hysterical and generalising response to my comment about about ONE shop assistant, who refuses to recognise a foreign passport in a country that is doing its damnedest to attract foreign visitors. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I respect everyone who does their job well - be it however so "menial" - and have only contempt for those who give customers bad service. I stand by my comment that the assistant in question must be at best semi-literate, because it does not take much education or intelligence to recognise a foreign passport, which will probably have English text in it as well.

Are you seriously suggesting that someone who refuses to sell alcohol to young (but over the legal age) Polish, Russian, German or Swedish visitors to our country deserves resp

I suspect that you are the person who has a problem with snobbery and I suggest you try and acquire a bit more cop-on to add to the degree that you seem to think made you too good to be a shop assistant.:D

Perhaps this person was following the directive laid out by the company and does not have the authority to accept what they feel is correct? Perhaps it's an issue to be taken up with the company and not the person fulfilling their job description..

MadsL

Ravelleman wrote: »

My understanding of all this is that a legal grey area has essentially emerged concerning identification.

Bizarrely, if someone working in an off licence or pub sells alcohol to a minor who has shown them a passport, which appears valid but really is not, they can still be held responsible and prosecuted. If the same worker asks for a Garda Age Card, which later turns out to be forged or whatever, they can use that as a defence in court. If it had been a passport they would not have been able to rely on that.

So it appears that the Age Card takes legal precedent over the passport in matters related to alcohol. Ludicrous but such is the country we live in.

I believe this was the conclusion on the 'Beer, Wine & Spirits' forum a couple of months ago.

Given that it a defence under the Act to show that you had reasonable grounds to believe the person was over 18, what is the lagal basis for this, and can you point me to any case where this has happened?

RADIUS wrote: »

What are you trying to imply?

If someone walks into a shop with a passport from some obscure (relatively speaking) non EU country than there is a bigger chance that the person behind the till wont recognize it.

If it has EU written all over it than the opposite is true.

Do you think it would therefore be acceptable to accept the EU passport and not the African one?

RADIUS

MadsL wrote: »

Given that it a defence under the Act to show that you had reasonable grounds to believe the person was over 18, what is the lagal basis for this, and can you point me to any case where this has happened?



Do you think it would therefore be acceptable to accept the EU passport and not the African one?

I've been over this , read my previous posts if you want. I said Zimbabwe and for some reason people want to make an issue out of it.

Would you have asked me a similar question if I said Ukraine instead of Zimbabwe?

MadsL

RADIUS wrote: »

I've been over this , read my previous posts if you want. I said Zimbabwe and for some reason people want to make an issue out of it.

Would you have asked me this question if I said Ukraine instead of Zimbabwe?

Yes.

Care to answer my question now?

candy-gal1

yep, some shops can certainly be very fecking fussy with passports, I was refused mine last year because it was out of date :eek:
Maybe im wrong but i thought that was a tad ridiculous imho.

RADIUS

MadsL wrote: »

Yes.

Care to answer my question now?

I pointed you to my previous posts on this as I have expressed my opinion quite thoroughly.

RADIUS

candy-gal1 wrote: »

yep, some shops can certainly be very fecking fussy with passports, I was refused mine last year because it was out of date :eek:
Maybe im wrong but i thought that was a tad ridiculous imho.

If it's out of date then it's not valid.

MadsL

RADIUS wrote: »

I pointed you to my previous posts on this as I have expressed my opinion quite thoroughly.

Nice dodge.

RADIUS

MadsL wrote: »

Nice dodge.

MadsL what are you getting at here?

I will quote myself

RADIUS wrote: »

EU of course, I am talking legally here, not some shopkeepers opinion.

In my opinion , this being the EU any EU passport (They have EU written all over them) should be as Valid a form of photo ID as an Irish one. In fact all passports should be viewed equally but as this is EU at the very least, a Polish passport should be as good as an Irish one or a French one for the purpose of proving your age.

The answer to your question is written on this very page.

If you really don't want to bother yourself reading then here is your answer:

No.

MadsL

RADIUS wrote: »

MadsL what are you getting at here?

I was asking if this below was an observation or an expectation...

RADIUS wrote: »

If someone walks into a shop with a passport from some obscure (relatively speaking) non EU country than there is a bigger chance that the person behind the till wont recognize it.

And finally you clarified that you would not support one passport as "superior" to another when you said:

RADIUS wrote: »

No.

Nothing else. Carry on.