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Racist (?) "Joke" in widely distributed email

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    #62
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    ... If something offends you, ignore it and carry on.
    As I keep having to point out, I had hoped to initiate a legal discussion, not an agony aunt column. Look again at the board title, it says "Legal Discussion". Do you wish to engage in a Legal Discussion about possible racist jokes?


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    #63
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    If you were as condescending and dismissive on that forum as your posts have been here then I doubt your nationality had anything to do with why you were made to feel vicitimsed.

    And while i accept that discrimination on the grounds of nationality can be included in definition of racism I do not believe the joke you posted or your treatment thereafter were in any way discriminatory.


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    #64
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    MagicSean wrote: »
    If you were as condescending and dismissive on that forum as your posts have been here then I doubt your nationality had anything to do with why you were made to feel vicitimsed....
    I have no idea what any of that is about. Have you read my posts, including the OP? I clearly stated that I received an email with a wide distribution.

    As for your opinion about my being "condescending and dismissive", I have this very appealing and direct method of dealing with idiotic posts.


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    #65
    hiho1967
    Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭hiho1967


    The world has gone mad. How can you find this offensive (just shakes head here)


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    #66
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    mathepac wrote: »
    As I keep having to point out, I had hoped to initiate a legal discussion, not an agony aunt column. Look again at the board title, it says "Legal Discussion". Do you wish to engage in a Legal Discussion about possible racist jokes?

    What legal discussion were you hoping to start? You asked if people found it offensive or not, it seems most people don't. From a legal perspective? Well, the UN talks about racial discrimination as opposed to racism.(http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/cerd.htm) -
    "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

    Using that definition, then no, I don't think the company in question is racially discriminating. From the tone of your posts, I guess you do - why?


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    #67
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Thoie wrote: »
    ... Using that definition, then no, I don't think the company in question is racially discriminating. From the tone of your posts, I guess you do - why?
    I didn't use "racial discrimination" or the UN's definition of it as the basis of my OP or subsequent posts. Do you want to start your own thread about the UN stuff you want to discuss, because it's a completely different topic to mine?


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    #68
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,650 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    Are we not the same race as scots and English? How can this be a racist joke :confused:


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    #69
    Procrastastudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    I don't get this race thing. Are people suggesting that races are based on colour? Surely a joke relating to the Social Welfare being a 'Polish Charity' is racist? The Poles are generally white.

    Do people refer to the fact that both Ireland and England was invaded by the Normans so we're all just jolly old countrymen? Has it escaped the attention of some posters here that Ireland is a different country to the UK? Even if it wasn't if I, as an Englishman, say "You stupid Jock wanker" am I not being racist because Scotland is part of the UK?

    I'm sorry but I think a few people here need a history lesson. The English have a long history of being bigoted against the Irish. I'm sure the sign "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish" would cause offense to many.

    That said - I'm not against a bit of racism when it's used in the furtherance of a joke and its not meant to be malicious. I actually think it's quite healthy in that it ridicules those that do think that where someone was born has any bearing on their realtive worth as a human being.


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    #70
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Procrastastudy wrote: »
    I don't get this race thing. Are people suggesting that races are based on colour? Surely a joke relating to the Social Welfare being a 'Polish Charity' is racist? The Poles are generally white.

    Do people refer to the fact that both Ireland and England was invaded by the Normans so we're all just jolly old countrymen? Has it escaped the attention of some posters here that Ireland is a different country to the UK? Even if it wasn't if I, as an Englishman, say "You stupid Jock wanker" am I not being racist because Scotland is part of the UK?

    I'm sorry but I think a few people here need a history lesson. The English have a long history of being bigoted against the Irish. I'm sure the sign "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish" would cause offense to many.

    That said - I'm not against a bit of racism when it's used in the furtherance of a joke and its not meant to be malicious. I actually think it's quite healthy in that it ridicules those that do think that where someone was born has any bearing on their realtive worth as a human being.

    A polish person referring to social welfare being a polish charity is hardly racist, remember the company who sent the email is Irish, registered in Kilkenny, not English. How do you jump from a simple (and pretty funny) joke to being invaded by English planters?


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    #71
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,650 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    Procrastastudy wrote: »
    I don't get this race thing. Are people suggesting that races are based on colour? Surely a joke relating to the Social Welfare being a 'Polish Charity' is racist? The Poles are generally white.

    Do people refer to the fact that both Ireland and England was invaded by the Normans so we're all just jolly old countrymen? Has it escaped the attention of some posters here that Ireland is a different country to the UK? Even if it wasn't if I, as an Englishman, say "You stupid Jock wanker" am I not being racist because Scotland is part of the UK?

    I'm sorry but I think a few people here need a history lesson. The English have a long history of being bigoted against the Irish. I'm sure the sign "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish" would cause offense to many.

    That said - I'm not against a bit of racism when it's used in the furtherance of a joke and its not meant to be malicious. I actually think it's quite healthy in that it ridicules those that do think that where someone was born has any bearing on their realtive worth as a human being.

    Dude, Irish people ARE the same race as English people.


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    #72
    Procrastastudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    davo10 wrote: »
    A polish person referring to social welfare being a polish charity is hardly racist, remember the company who sent the email is Irish, registered in Kilkenny, not English. How do you jump from a simple (and pretty funny) joke to being invaded by English planters?

    I was refering to a District Court Judge.
    amdublin wrote: »
    Dude, Irish people ARE the same race as English people.

    So are we all the same race? We're all from Africa according to theorists. Or are Irish people British?


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    #73
    Logical_Bear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 799 ✭✭✭Logical_Bear


    Solair wrote: »
    Just respond to the owner of the list and say that you're offended.

    If it's a commercial body, complain to the management directly if you're that offended by it.

    People send stupid stuff by email sometimes.
    including complaints:D


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    #74
    Reloc8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Reloc8


    mathepac wrote: »
    Do you wish to engage in a Legal Discussion about possible racist jokes?

    If only such a thread had been started. However, we are where we are.
    mathepac wrote: »
    I know there is a fine line between taking ourselves too seriously and accepting it as fitting that we are the butt of every "stupid person" joke in the world.

    I received an email today from a distribution list to which I am a voluntary subscriber since earlier this year.

    On which side of the line do ye think the 1970's era "joke" falls? Is it:

    a) Good clean fun
    b) Racist

    ...

    Not a legal question. Calls simply for reader's personal opinion.

    mathepac wrote: »
    Personally I think it's deplorable that an Irish-registered organisation based in Kilkenny should distribute this kind of neanderthal rubbish and it speaks to their low regard for Irish nationality and ethnicity.

    Expresses your own opinion. No law involved.
    mathepac wrote: »
    The Olympics and the BBC were quick to disassociate themselves from Daley Thomson's racist Irish remark in an interview during the competitions. I would like to see a public apology from this crowd, if not a prosecution for publishing and distributing racist remarks. Their details are :
    ...

    Little bit of law involved here but only barely. You express your preference that they apologise. You say in lukewarm terms that you effectively wouldn't mind a prosecution to be commenced against them.

    Purpose of your post = apparently to start/support a campaign amongst like minded individuals to complain to the person who sent the email.

    As regards a 'prosecution for publishing and distributing racist remarks read this Act and tell me how what you have reported amounts to something which is 'likely to stir up hatred'. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/en/act/pub/0019/sec0002.html#sec2


    Sounds to me like one for Joe. On a slow day. If you are from Clontarf.


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    #75
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    amdublin wrote: »
    Dude, Irish people ARE the same race as English people.

    Great, well that excludes the Nazis from being racists then given that they only socked it to the whites. Glad we solved that one.

    Of course the joke is racist. It is based on the intellectual superiority of one group of people compared to another group, based on race or ethnicity.


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