Racist (?) "Joke" in widely distributed email

mathepac

I know there is a fine line between taking ourselves too seriously and accepting it as fitting that we are the butt of every "stupid person" joke in the world.

I received an email today from a distribution list to which I am a voluntary subscriber since earlier this year.

On which side of the line do ye think the 1970's era "joke" falls? Is it:

a) Good clean fun
b) Racist

At best the "joke" they refer to is in extremely poor taste, at worst it is racist, portraying the Irishman as a thick gombeen who doesn't know the difference between a saint's name and the name of a food, IMHO

Personally I think it's deplorable that an Irish-registered organisation based in Kilkenny should distribute this kind of neanderthal rubbish and it speaks to their low regard for Irish nationality and ethnicity.

The Olympics and the BBC were quick to disassociate themselves from Daley Thomson's racist Irish remark in an interview during the competitions. I would like to see a public apology from this crowd, if not a prosecution for publishing and distributing racist remarks. Their details are :

"FreePrizedraws is a part of Lifestyles Online Limited.
Registered Office: 29 Lower Patrick Street, Kilkenny, County Kilkenny. Registered Number: 480849 (Ireland)."

I publish their name & address here without fear of retribution from the mods as it appears on the bottom of every email they sent out to-day. If the mods want a copy of the email forwarded, that is not a problem.

The "Joke":

"Englishman, Frenchman and Irishman - A Classic Irish Joke

An Englishman, a Frenchman and an Irishman were in a pub talking about their children.

'My son was born on St George's Day,' remarked the Englishman, 'So we obviously decided to call him George.'

'That's a real coincidence, 'observed the Frenchman, 'My daughter was born on Valentine's Day, so we decided to call her Valentine.'

'That's really incredible, 'drawled the Irishman, 'Exactly the same thing happened with my son Pancake' "

syklops

How is that racist?

And I giggled at the end.

That's not racist. The definition of racist is not "things I don't like".

Rented Mule

Racist ?

You may want to look up the meaning of the word.

juan.kerr

Ridiculous. Since when are the Irish a different 'race' to the English? Can we not just all get along?

GRMA

It's offensive all right, and a stupid thing to put on an email.

Procrastastudy

syklops wrote: »

How is that racist?

And I giggled at the end.

Its does depend to a certain extent to who it was sent to. Lets say you're the only Irish person in a company and keep getting these. Likely bullying (which I realise wasn't exactly the question posed). Like so many things it isn't an issue until someone complains.

I suppose if we take PC to the extreme then it is racist - although you have to read into it a bit. That said there has always been a bit of leeway when it comes to racism about the English, Scots, Welsh, French and Americans. I think you'd have to be quite easily offended to take issue with that joke but I normally have a very thick skin when it comes to this stuff so...

Rented Mule wrote: »

Racist ?

You may want to look up the meaning of the word.

juan.kerr wrote: »

Ridiculous. Since when are the Irish a different 'race' to the English? Can we not just all get along?

I'm pretty certain racism is based on nationality...

jugger

i dont think it is tbh but it just made me coughed up a mouthfull of tea
and they send you one every day where do i sign up?????

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Some people really need to lighten up

juan.kerr

Procrastastudy wrote: »

I'm pretty certain racism is based on nationality...

:rolleyes:

mathepac

bluewolf wrote: »

That's not racist. The definition of racist is not "things I don't like".

Perhaps, perhaps not but it does include words like "bigot" or "bigotry".

GRMA

It's not even a "classic Irish joke" but rather a British one of the John Bull variety - a hangover from the anti Irish stereotype that Irish people were all idiots.

Outdated and shouldn't be sent around.

MadsL

I know there is a fine line between taking ourselves too seriously and accepting it as fitting that we are the butt of every "stupid person" joke in the world.

I received an email today from a distribution list to which I am a voluntary subscriber since earlier this year.

On which side of the line do ye think the 1970's era "joke" falls? Is it:

a) Good clean fun
b) Racist

At best the "joke" they refer to is in extremely poor taste, at worst it is racist, portraying the Irishman as a thick gombeen who doesn't know the difference between a saint's name and the name of a food, IMHO

Personally I think it's deplorable that an Irish-registered organisation based in Kilkenny should distribute this kind of neanderthal rubbish and it speaks to their low regard for Irish nationality and ethnicity.

The Olympics and the BBC were quick to disassociate themselves from Daley Thomson's racist Irish remark in an interview during the competitions. I would like to see a public apology from this crowd, if not a prosecution for publishing and distributing racist remarks. Their details are :

"FreePrizedraws is a part of Lifestyles Online Limited.
Registered Office: 29 Lower Patrick Street, Kilkenny, County Kilkenny. Registered Number: 480849 (Ireland)."

I publish their name & address here without fear of retribution from the mods as it appears on the bottom of every email they sent out to-day. If the mods want a copy of the email forwarded, that is not a problem.

The "Joke":

"Englishman, Frenchman and Irishman - A Classic Irish Joke

An Englishman, a Frenchman and an Irishman were in a pub talking about their children.

'My son was born on St George's Day,' remarked the Englishman, 'So we obviously decided to call him George.'

'That's a real coincidence, 'observed the Frenchman, 'My daughter was born on Valentine's Day, so we decided to call her Valentine.'

'That's really incredible, 'drawled the Irishman, 'Exactly the same thing happened with my son Pancake' "

Not sure is the joke is the joke or the whole post is the joke. Could you clarify.

Allyall

How is it racist or a joke?

I was in the Pub with Jean-Luc, and Cedric. We were having a private discussion, and we told each other our childrens names, and how we decided upon naming them..

I think you meant, it's a "Coincidence".

millie35

My daughter is called shrove.

Cool_CM

Would it have caused less/no offence to you if Paddy Irishman had come first and called his son Patrick and Paddy Englishman was the guy who named his son pancake?

I seriously doubt you would have started a thread if it had.

It's a joke and not even an outlandish one at that. If you don't like it then make a complaint to the company that sent it to you and ask them to take you off their mailing list.

nacimroc

Its a joke and a funny one at that. Your offended the Irish company said an Irish joke to the Irish?

mathepac

MadsL wrote: »

Not sure is the joke is the joke or the whole post is the joke. Could you clarify.

I think your confusion and that of your peers is based on the fact that this thread is "Legal Discussion" and not "After Hours". I know that's not a racist remark, but is it bigoted?

Thoie

Worse things happen at sea.

mathepac

Cool_CM wrote: »

... If you don't like it then make a complaint to the company that sent it to you and ask them to take you off their mailing list.

I diid all that (and more) before I posted here, but thank you for the suggestions.

martyoo

That's not funny or racist.

Solair

Just respond to the owner of the list and say that you're offended.

If it's a commercial body, complain to the management directly if you're that offended by it.

People send stupid stuff by email sometimes.

Tordelback

It's a joke based on widely-held national stereotypes, yes, but unless it's within a context of contempt or abuse or power-imbalance, it's just poking fun, it's not racism. However, the issue here is that a corporate e-mail often arrives devoid of this all-important context - and as such it is openb to the worst possible interpretation. Thus it's generally unwise to write these kind of things. But 'unwise' was never the same as 'racist'.


For the record, I must have told and/or laughed at a thousand 'Paddy Irishman' jokes, speaking as an Irishman - it's a funny and flexible format, easily applied to Priest/Vicar/Rabbi, Brunette/Redhead/Blonde, Science/Engineering/Arts...

MagicSean

Can't say I'm offended by it. I know for a fact there are Irish people that stupid.

biko

Since Irish people are an easily offend lot then yeah!*




*just as "racist" as the joke, purporting all Irish are something is probably not good



But feck it, it's a good joke

RandolphEsq

I didn't know there was a stereotype that Irish people were buffoons?! But I am only 23 so was not alive during the period where we hated the Engllish.

Procrastastudy

RandolphEsq wrote: »

I didn't know there was a stereotype that Irish people were buffoons?! But I am only 23 so was not alive during the period where we hated the Engllish.

You've never heard an Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman joke before?

RandolphEsq

Procrastastudy wrote: »

You've never heard an Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman joke before?

I have but the nationality seems fairly irrelevant and interchangeable.

Procrastastudy

RandolphEsq wrote: »

I have but the nationality seems fairly irrelevant and interchangeable.

Responses like this make me think there is hope for mankind after all.

Rackstar

If that email is one of your biggest worries in life then I'd love to be in your shoes.

krd

MagicSean wrote: »

Can't say I'm offended by it. I know for a fact there are Irish people that stupid.

Our stupidity is legendary.


Did you here the one about the Ghost Estate builder who drove his cement truck into the Dail?

The joke doesn't actually have a punchline - it just goes on and on, until you're in tears, and clawing at your face in maniacal laughter wishing it would all stop. He blamed the government, Anglo, ......the people thought he was some kind of hero (striking back against the people who had bankrupted the country) .....then he built Achil Henge.

Eyepatch

mathepac wrote: »

On which side of the line do ye think the 1970's era "joke" falls? Is it:

a) Good clean fun
b) Racist

At best the "joke" they refer to is in extremely poor taste, at worst it is racist, portraying the Irishman as a thick gombeen who doesn't know the difference between a saint's name and the name of a food, IMHO

Personally I think it's deplorable that an Irish-registered organisation based in Kilkenny should distribute this kind of neanderthal rubbish and it speaks to their low regard for Irish nationality and ethnicity.
...........


"FreePrizedraws is a part of Lifestyles Online Limited.
Registered Office: 29 Lower Patrick Street, Kilkenny, County Kilkenny. Registered Number: 480849 (Ireland)."

I publish their name & address here without fear of retribution from the mods as it appears on the bottom of every email they sent out to-day. If the mods want a copy of the email forwarded, that is not a problem.

The "Joke":

"Englishman, Frenchman and Irishman - A Classic Irish Joke

An Englishman, a Frenchman and an Irishman were in a pub talking about their children.

'My son was born on St George's Day,' remarked the Englishman, 'So we obviously decided to call him George.'

'That's a real coincidence, 'observed the Frenchman, 'My daughter was born on Valentine's Day, so we decided to call her Valentine.'

'That's really incredible, 'drawled the Irishman, 'Exactly the same thing happened with my son Pancake' "

To get back to OP's original point. I agree totally with him her, that theses type of jokes have racist undertones.

Some time ago, I was the only Irish person on a forum that is run by an English friend of mine. One of the members, who is from the North of England, started a series of Paddy jokes, depicting the Irishman as be an ignorant buffoon, who is stupid, uncouth and can't speak or understand the English language properly. After about the third one. I Pm-ed my friend, who owned the forum, pointing out how offensive and (I didn't put a tooth in it) RACIST, these jokes were. [I also had clicked on the report button next to the offensive posts.] I asked that they be discontinued.

My friend wrote back saying that he would "whisper in his friend's ear". What he intended to whisper, I don't know, but next morning, there was another of these disgusting jokes posted. I again protested to my friend privately, saying that if these were to continue, I could no longer be a member of that forum, and for him to kindly remove my membership. I never heard from him again. The whole experience was very distressing to me.

I thought his handling of the whole situation was poor, for an owner, moderator of a site. IMO, racism against Irish is alive an well in England. And OP, I think you are perfectly entitled to be incensed at receiving such an email, especially from a fellow Irishman.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Eyepatch wrote: »

To get back to OP's original point. I agree totally with him her, that theses type of jokes have racist undertones.

Some time ago, I was the only Irish person on a forum that is run by an English friend of mine. One of the members, who is from the North of England, started a series of Paddy jokes, depicting the Irishman as be an ignorant buffoon, who is stupid, uncouth and can't speak or understand the English language properly. After about the third one. I Pm-ed my friend, who owned the forum, pointing out how offensive and (I didn't put a tooth in it) RACIST, these jokes were. [I also had clicked on the report button next to the offensive posts.] I asked that they be discontinued.

My friend wrote back saying that he would "whisper in his friend's ear". What he intended to whisper, I don't know, but next morning, there was another of these disgusting jokes posted. I again protested to my friend privately, saying that if these were to continue, I could no longer be a member of that forum, and for him to kindly remove my membership. I never heard from him again. The whole experience was very distressing to me.

I thought his handling of the whole situation was poor, for an owner, moderator of a site. IMO, racism against Irish is alive an well in England. And OP, I think you are perfectly entitled to be incensed at receiving such an email, especially from a fellow Irishman.

Sorry you must be very thin skinned I hear plenty of jokes about Scot and English people here in Ireland

Eyepatch

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Sorry you must be very thin skinned I hear plenty of jokes about Scot and English people here in Ireland

Depends very much on the situation, don't you think? If you were the only Irish person on an English forum, would you sit back and gladly take these kind of jokes depicting your fellow countrymen as stupid, ignorant, uncouth buffoons, who can't understand, or speak English?

There are also Americans on this forum, who are my friends, who didn't actually get the point of these jokes. Out of politeness, the would come back saying "Oh, Ah, I didn't get it at first, but now I think I get it LMAO! LOL!" I was too embarrassed to explain to them what was behind the jokes.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Eyepatch wrote: »

Depends very much on the situation, don't you think? If you were the only Irish person on an English forum, would you sit back and gladly take these kind of jokes depicting your fellow countrymen as stupid, ignorant, uncouth buffoons, who can't understand, or speak English?

There are also Americans on this forum, who are my friends, who didn't actually get the point of these jokes. Out of politeness, the would come back saying "Oh, Ah, I didn't get it at first, but now I think I get it LMAO! LOL!" I was too embarrassed to explain to them what was behind the jokes.

Sorry I am an Irishman on a Rangers supporters site I can assure I have heard loads of jokes I just tell ones that relate to the English or Scots and as far as I know the Irish are not a separate race. As I said before we need to lighten up in this country.

Eyepatch

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

...... as far as I know the Irish are not a separate race.

So much for what you know, Broxi_Bear_Eire! :eek:

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Eyepatch wrote: »

So much for what you know! :eek:

Hhhhmm I think I am correct in my thinking but hey ho be offended by everything and anything

Eyepatch

I rarely take offense, but when people state that something offends them, especially something of a racist nature, then I think it is only fair to listen and consider what they are saying, rather than dismissing it out of hand. There is such a thing as emapthy, that helps people understand and respect others' feelings.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Eyepatch wrote: »

I rarely take offense, but when people state that something offends them, especially something of a racist nature, then I think it is only fair to listen and consider what they are saying, rather than dismissing it out of hand. There is such a thing as emapthy, that helps people understand and respect others' feelings.

Well I don't believe its racist to start with and I found it amusing though I had heard it before,
Sorry I really have more to do with mt life than to get worked up over a silly joke there is a hell of a lot worse happening in the real world to get your knickers in a twist over

Eyepatch

.... and lives have been lost over less! No more to say!

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Eyepatch wrote: »

.... and lives have been lost over less! No more to say!

Right we will all go through life not speaking in case we say something that gets us murdered :rolleyes:

Pkiernan

Thank God the joke was funny, as the rest of this thread is rubbish.

Racist??? Someone needs a dictionary.

mathepac

Pkiernan wrote: »

Thank God the joke was funny, as the rest of this thread is rubbish...

Feel free to leave so.

Pkiernan wrote: »

...Racist??? Someone needs a dictionary.

Well you do, as well as needing to read the thread you condemn as "rubbish". Before leaving you might consult the part stating that the definition of racism /racist includes words like "bigoted", "bigotry" and "bigot", someone who holds a view or reaches a conclusion when not in possession of the full facts, or clings to that view despite them.

I wonder who that definition fits?

mathepac

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Sorry you must be very thin skinned I hear plenty of jokes about Scot and English people here in Ireland

You may feel comfortable and derive enjoyment from throwing racist, bigoted terms and chants around on the internet or at matches; that does not mean we all have to share your comfort and enjoyment.

I didn't post a query on the Legal Discussion board to discuss dermatological matters, I was hoping for a sensible Legal Discussion; this simple fact seems to have escaped you in your rush to dismiss others who don't share your prejudices.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

mathepac wrote: »

You may feel comfortable and derive enjoyment from throwing racist, bigoted terms and chants around on the internet or at matches; that does not mean we all have to share your comfort and enjoyment.

I didn't post a query on the Legal Discussion board to discuss dermatological matters, I was hoping for a sensible Legal Discussion; this simple fact seems to have escaped you in your rush to dismiss others who don't share your prejudices.

Oh get off your high horse. You posted on an open forum whinging about a joke and you don't expect a reaction. Did I touch a nerve really your pompous drivel is the real joke here
If you don't like what I say then put me on ignore also what do you know about what I sing or chant at matches methinks your own bigoted tendencies are coming out there

Pkiernan

mathepac wrote: »

Feel free to leave so.

Well you do, as well as needing to read the thread you condemn as "rubbish". Before leaving you might consult the part stating that the definition of racism /racist includes words like "bigoted", "bigotry" and "bigot", someone who holds a view or reaches a conclusion when not in possession of the full facts, or clings to that view despite them.

I wonder who that definition fits?

Are you implying that I am racist?
If so, please make your case, and I will gladly report you to a mod.

Anyone who thinks that the joke in the initial post was "racist" clearly doesn't understand what true racism is, and is instead insulting those who have been true victims of it.

Shame on you.

davo10

In order to be a joke, does some one or some group not need to be the butt if it?, if so are all jokes not racist in some way or another as they all make fun of someone?, should all jokes be banned in case they cause offence? Or should they just be denied airing to prudes with no sense of humour?, would that be discrimination? Who knows? Who cares?, who wishes they never read this thread and this post?

mathepac

davo10 wrote: »

In order to be a joke, does some one or some group not need to be the butt if it?, ...

Not in my opinion, and this is the crux of my OP. Clearly, based on your post, you see humour as needing a victim of some kind. Does it matter if the victim's skin is a different colour to yours, that the victim speaks a different language, is less able than you or is a different gender, age, has a different hair colour or is from a different social stratum?

Once you've finished victimising these people with words is it all right to move on to abusing them physically, just because they're different?

davo10

At the risk of dragging out this stupidest of all threads, how were Irish people victimised by the joke in your OP? A previous poster was right, crap like this does a disservice to people who suffer real racist abuse. Can you give us all an example of a joke you find acceptable?, one will do.

carrig2

I think people are gone so hung up on what is or is not pc that we are losing the run of ourselves. I agree with previous poster. It does a disservice to people who do suffer racist abuse to worry about that joke.

mathepac

davo10 wrote: »

At the risk of dragging out this stupidest of all threads, how were Irish people victimised by the joke in your OP? A previous poster was right, crap like this does a disservice to people who suffer real racist abuse. Can you give us all an example of a joke you find acceptable?, one will do.

My comments were exclusively about your post that stated jokes had to have a "butt", your word, or my word "victim".

I asked for a legal discussion in my OP, which is why I posted in this forum; your non-legal opinions are irrelevant in that context and your attempts to drag the discussion OT are just a waste of time and words.