Enda Kenny - "European of the Year"

Floppybits

Do you ever get the feeling that the folks in Europe are taking the p**s out of us?

I just have a feeling that because we keep appeasing these people that they are just having a good laugh and sniggering behind our backs. I think the Europeans well mainly the Germans are playing a game with us to see how much suffering we will take before we start pushing back.

Happyman42

Floppybits wrote: »

Do you ever get the feeling that the folks in Europe are taking the p**s out of us?

Both sides always benefit from the issuing of an 'award'. 'European of the Year' is awarded to validate and subtly market what Europe is doing and means nothing in terms of what Europe 'should be doing'. To pay any attention to this 'award' is to fall for the marketing.

yosemite_sam

He has paid all their money back to their powerful investors and he is top boy in their eyes, as someone from Mayo I find him to be the most inept Mayo person born in the last 100 years

yosemite_sam

Floppybits wrote: »

Do you ever get the feeling that the folks in Europe are taking the p**s out of us?

I just have a feeling that because we keep appeasing these people that they are just having a good laugh and sniggering behind our backs. I think the Europeans well mainly the Germans are playing a game with us to see how much suffering we will take before we start pushing back.

You could just imagine them at the weekend rolling around on the floor when he asked them to say we were special :eek:

Happyman42

yosemite_sam wrote: »

as someone from Mayo I find him to be the most inept Mayo person born in the last 100 years

...and that's saying something!

Floppybits

yosemite_sam wrote: »

You could just imagine them at the weekend rolling around on the floor when he asked them to say we were special :eek:

Unfortunately I can see them laughing when he asked them to say we were a special case. :mad:

bluesteel

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Yes, the Germans adore Enda - he has been a well behaved and good boy.

Are you going to leave it like that? Just that trite, juvenile remark?

What is it that bothers you? Cutting Social Welfare spending? It's hardly been touched!
Cutting Public Sector salaries, not enough! We still have a bloated PS, the monstrosity that is the CPA has nothing to do with "de Garmans" but it doesn't seem to register on the conscience of the great unwashed.


It's a sad reflection that the politics forum now resembles AH with posters who think "we" have some power in this situation and should rebel against out European masters. The rabble that is the Irish people and electorate voted for Fianna Fail and the free spending, bank underwriting that came with it. The German bashing is just a further reflection of the lack of critical thinking prevalent in the country

Floppybits

bluesteel wrote: »

It's a sad reflection that the politics forum now resembles AH with posters who think "we" have some power in this situation and should rebel against out European masters. The rabble that is the Irish people and electorate voted for Fianna Fail and the free spending, bank underwriting that came with it. The German bashing is just a further reflection of the lack of critical thinking prevalent in the country

Why do you think we have no power? Maybe if we actually had politicians who would actually put the country first instead of themselves and their parties maybe they could do something. Look at Iceland, their government stood up to the countries who invested and wanted their money and told them to take a hike and now they are recovering well. Then take a look at us who are still going on bended knee cap in hand to these folks in europe.

It is a sad situation that there are no politicians in this country who are looking to do some good for the country rather than line their own pockets and look for the cushy number when they leave government.

Scofflaw

bluesteel wrote: »

Are you going to leave it like that? Just that trite, juvenile remark?

What is it that bothers you? Cutting Social Welfare spending? It's hardly been touched!
Cutting Public Sector salaries, not enough! We still have a bloated PS, the monstrosity that is the CPA has nothing to do with "de Garmans" but it doesn't seem to register on the conscience of the great unwashed.


It's a sad reflection that the politics forum now resembles AH with posters who think "we" have some power in this situation and should rebel against out European masters. The rabble that is the Irish people and electorate voted for Fianna Fail and the free spending, bank underwriting that came with it. The German bashing is just a further reflection of the lack of critical thinking prevalent in the country

In SO's case it's more likely to be Enda Kenny bashing - the Germans are just collateral damage.

cordially,
Scofflaw

goose2005

mattser wrote: »

Sorry, but he is our man. That's how democracy works. He's not perfect, but give me one Enda Kenny for the previous pack of weasels anyday.

Please: it is a sneak of weasels.

Son Of A Vidic

Scofflaw wrote: »

Feel free to provide the evidence that nobody else has yet managed to for this claim. I'm sure you have evidence, otherwise you wouldn't make the claim.

cordially,
Scofflaw

I'm not making any claim and where have you been for the last four years? From whom did Irish banks borrow? And who made this cheap credit so readily available to them? Who do you think the ECB are protecting? Because the revisionist approach can not erase the levels of banking ineptitude, that has imposed this debt upon us.

No haircuts and no debt write downs, after all German banks have the biggest exposure here. An unprecedented case of risk takers having their losses covered by the taxpayer. But they must be protected at all costs. This is the abiding principle which has burdened us, coupled with the meek bleating of our 'leaders'. Why wouldn't they give Kenny a wee reward for himself, sure haven't we bailed them all out.

yosemite_sam

mattser wrote: »

Sorry, but he is our man. That's how democracy works. He's not perfect, but give me one Enda Kenny for the previous pack of weasels anyday.

Sorry I don't buy that, he is clueless and should have stepped aside and let someone who is more capable run the country. Varadkar or Creighton would be a better bet, Enda has been institutionalised by the Dail. He has been in there for thirty odd years and thinks that place is how it is in the outside world, Bless

Scofflaw

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I'm not making any claim and where have you been for the last four years? From whom did Irish banks borrow? And who made this cheap credit so readily available to them? Who do you think the ECB are protecting? Because the revisionist approach can not erase the levels of banking ineptitude, that has imposed this debt upon us.

No haircuts and no debt write downs, after all German banks have the biggest exposure here. An unprecedented case of risk takers having their losses covered by the taxpayer. But they must be protected at all costs. This is the abiding principle which has burdened us, coupled with the meek bleating of our 'leaders'. Why wouldn't they give Kenny a wee reward for himself, sure haven't we bailed them all out.

Where I've been for the last four years is trying to find any actual evidence for the claim you're making. I've looked at all the available figures, I've challenged economists, and the best anyone has been able to do is to say that even though all the available evidence suggests it's untrue, it might be possible to find holes in that evidence to allow it to not be definitively disproven - although, again, nobody has ever actually substantiated these supposed holes.

The answer to your question, as far as the available evidence goes, is that the Irish banks borrowed in their traditional markets, in particular the US and UK money markets. In the case of Anglo, it also had "deposit-taking" outlets in Ireland, the UK, Austria, the Isle of Man and Jersey - none, you'll note, in Germany. The Central Bank records for the covered banks show very little involvement of eurozone money in our covered banks, and a lot of "rest of world", although both are outweighed by money from Ireland.

So, to reiterate, let's have your evidence for the German banks being major beneficiaries of our bailout, because if you're basing it on "other people say it", I have to tell you you've been fooled, because those other people don't have any evidence for it either.

cordially,
Scofflaw

bluesteel

Floppybits wrote: »

Look at Iceland, their government stood up to the countries who invested and wanted their money and told them to take a hike and now they are recovering well.

Just when I thought I had seen the zenith of the economic ignorance.

Iceland has it's own currency, which could devalue.

Nice of you to cover that in your "analysis". Luckily for them they didn't issue a blanket guarantee of the debt; in their case they were even more leveraged so not even some one as stupid as Brian Lenihan would think it was a good idea.

You also forgot to mention the small matter of the deficit! Do you honestly think that all our problems would be solved if the bank guarantee had not occurred? The reason we are going on bended knee to "Europe" is that they are paying the Government's bloated expenditure! Does that not show up on your radar? Have you really convinced yourself that it's Europe's fault? Where do you think Social Welfare and PS salaries come from?

The more things change the more they stay the same - a peasant electorate which refuses to educate itself and face up to reality

Floppybits

bluesteel wrote: »

Just when I thought I had seen the zenith of the economic ignorance.

Iceland has it's own currency, which could devalue.

Nice of you to cover that in your "analysis". Luckily for them they didn't issue a blanket guarantee of the debt; in their case they were even more leveraged so not even some one as stupid as Brian Lenihan would think it was a good idea.

You also forgot to mention the small matter of the deficit! Do you honestly think that all our problems would be solved if the bank guarantee had not occurred? The reason we are going on bended knee to "Europe" is that they are paying the Government's bloated expenditure! Does that not show up on your radar? Have you really convinced yourself that it's Europe's fault? Where do you think Social Welfare and PS salaries come from?

The more things change the more they stay the same - a peasant electorate which refuses to educate itself and face up to reality

I am sorry all knowing one about the Icelandic currency, it was the fizz from the champagne after celebrating enda's award.

We should have taken a stance like Iceland did when the banks came looking to be paid and told the banks that unsecured bankholders will not be paid. If the eu didnt like it then I am sure they could have come to an agreement where it would not be lumped on us.

bluesteel

Floppybits wrote: »

I am sorry all knowing one about the Icelandic currency, it was the fizz from the champagne after celebrating enda's award.

We should have taken a stance like Iceland did when the banks came looking to be paid and told the banks that unsecured bankholders will not be paid. If the eu didnt like it then I am sure they could have come to an agreement where it would not be lumped on us.

Crikey, even my dog knows that Iceland is not in the Eurozone

You might want to look up the difference between the EU/ECB/Troika, You might want to look up what happens when a bank or business refuses to pay its bonds

I won't waste my time with you until then, I'll put you on my ignore list to save myself the frustration of seeing such "talk to Joe" level of information in the politics forum

Boskowski

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

This is beyond farcical. While the general population struggle to pay bills and are facing into another harsh budget to keep the EU/IMF happy, and we send another generation of young Irish abroad, Kenny gets another attaboy??

Out of touch with reality doesn't even begin to this.

Unfortunately this last sentence summarises your own post.

I'm sure we're more than welcome to tell the EU/IMF to eff off and keep their money that funds our daily overspending.
Failing that it seems normal enough they make sure our need to live off the EU/IMF money drip doesn't last forever, don't you agree?

Scofflaw

Enough with the handbagging, thanks, bluesteel and Floppybits.

moderately,
Scofflaw

tayto lover

bluesteel wrote: »

Are you going to leave it like that? Just that trite, juvenile remark?

What is it that bothers you? Cutting Social Welfare spending? It's hardly been touched!
Cutting Public Sector salaries, not enough! We still have a bloated PS, the monstrosity that is the CPA has nothing to do with "de Garmans" but it doesn't seem to register on the conscience of the great unwashed.


It's a sad reflection that the politics forum now resembles AH with posters who think "we" have some power in this situation and should rebel against out European masters. The rabble that is the Irish people and electorate voted for Fianna Fail and the free spending, bank underwriting that came with it. The German bashing is just a further reflection of the lack of critical thinking prevalent in the country

Yes and while all that was going on the great Enda and his party sat on their hands and kept their mouths shut. The worst opposition party ever. They were just as guilty as the FF crooks.

mattser

goose2005 wrote: »

Please: it is a sneak of weasels.

Fcukin hell. IT WAS INVENTED FOR THEM

Scofflaw

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes and while all that was going on the great Enda and his party sat on their hands and kept their mouths shut. The worst opposition party ever. They were just as guilty as the FF crooks.

To be fair, we don't know what they would have done in government - they're being roundly criticised for not sticking to their manifesto at the moment, so manifestos are hardly a good guide to what would actually have happened. I suspect that the Greek government who blew the whistle on Greece's real financial position campaigned on a basis of good times for all.

Whereas, in the case of Fianna Fáil, we know they blew the boom. Fine Gael may be held answerable for their own failures, but they're not in the same dock as Fianna Fáil. And if they are, the whole parliamentary opposition is in there with them, because none of them rocked the boat either.

cordially,
Scofflaw

bluesteel

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes and while all that was going on the great Enda and his party sat on their hands and kept their mouths shut. The worst opposition party ever. They were just as guilty as the FF crooks.

Great contribution.
Do you realise that they voted against the FF budgets? Do you know how budgets are passed?

Do you have a figure for the amount by which taxes should be raised or spending cut? Or any figures at all?

It might have escaped your attention but Ireland is on track to exit the bailout program. I'd love to get your thoughts. Thanks.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5269ae6a-1ea6-11e2-bebc-00144feabdc0.html#axzz29LwUIqnI
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20121025-713029.html

WallStJournal wrote:

DUBLIN--Ireland is making progress toward emerging from its bailout program, but the country still needs Europe to deliver on its commitments for it to secure permanent access to private markets at the end of next year, the head of the International Monetary Fund's mission to Ireland said Thursday.

The IMF's Craig Beaumont was speaking in a telephone press briefing after the country's bailout lenders--the IMF, European Union and the European Central Bank--said Ireland had passed its latest review of the bailout deal the country struck in late 2010.

Ireland had made welcome steps to regain market access, but its efforts could come to nought if the European authorities fail to deliver on commitments to refinance the huge sums Ireland has pumped into its lenders over the last four years, Mr. Beaumont said.

The European Stability Mechanism, the euro zone's new bailout fund, could offer "quite significant value for [Ireland] regaining market access," he said. Options include the ESM refinancing with cash Ireland's bank-linked debts, or buying stakes in Irish banks, he added.

Mr. Beaumont said that the austerity program wasn't doing undue harm to Irish growth prospects.

However, the IMF had cut its growth outlook because the slowing world economy had crimped demand for Ireland's exports. It projected Irish gross domestic product will grow 1.1% in 2013, down from the 1.4% GDP growth it forecast last month.

P.S. in case you weren't aware, Fianna Fáil lead the country into the bailout

bluesteel

Scofflaw wrote: »

To be fair, we don't know what they would have done in government - they're being roundly criticised for not sticking to their manifesto at the moment, so manifestos are hardly a good guide to what would actually have happened. I suspect that the Greek government who blew the whistle on Greece's real financial position campaigned on a basis of good times for all.

Whereas, in the case of Fianna Fáil, we know they blew the boom. Fine Gael may be held answerable for their own failures, but they're not in the same dock as Fianna Fáil. And if they are, the whole parliamentary opposition is in there with them, because none of them rocked the boat either.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Funnily enough I remember in the run up to one of the FG leadership challenges, RTE (Prime Time?) did a focus group type thing with some very ordinary punters and the FG challengers

Anyway, Kenny was warning about challenges in the economy etc , slow down and one of the punters, a Dublin man, couldn't understand why he even brought it up. He was genuinely puzzled "shure, the economy is flying".

The auction politics were brought about by FF, was the economy don't badly the time of the Rainbow coalition? No it wasn't. Every election thereafter FF promised more giveaways, eventually FG soiled the bed and Noonan tried to copy FF and made a fool of himself, but to suggest that FF weren't the prime movers behind the auction politics (just like 1977) is simply dishonest.

EURATS

Enda kenny...yeah..European of the year alright.

meglome

EURATS wrote: »

Enda kenny...yeah..European of the year alright.

Your, no doubt, unbiased view is noted.

meglome

bluesteel wrote: »

Funnily enough I remember in the run up to one of the FG leadership challenges, RTE (Prime Time?) did a focus group type thing with some very ordinary punters and the FG challengers

Anyway, Kenny was warning about challenges in the economy etc , slow down and one of the punters, a Dublin man, couldn't understand why he even brought it up. He was genuinely puzzled "shure, the economy is flying".

The auction politics were brought about by FF, was the economy don't badly the time of the Rainbow coalition? No it wasn't. Every election thereafter FF promised more giveaways, eventually FG soiled the bed and Noonan tried to copy FF and made a fool of himself, but to suggest that FF weren't the prime movers behind the auction politics (just like 1977) is simply dishonest.

You know I'm actually kinda worried that we will find large amounts of oil. Anyone promising to spend the money as quickly as possible will be elected. Then in the future we'll sit scratching our heads as to how it all went wrong again.

EURATS

meglome wrote: »

Your, no doubt, unbiased view is noted.

No doubt...u can now report it back to ur "dear leader" and seek his praise for ur jotter notes!

Is interesting to see his nazi salute in today's Independant. Seems to be missing his blue shirt in the pic..but he is wearing it in the pic below with Francois Hollande

tayto lover

bluesteel wrote: »

Great contribution.
Do you realise that they voted against the FF budgets? Do you know how budgets are passed?

Do you have a figure for the amount by which taxes should be raised or spending cut? Or any figures at all?

It might have escaped your attention but Ireland is on track to exit the bailout program. I'd love to get your thoughts. Thanks.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5269ae6a-1ea6-11e2-bebc-00144feabdc0.html#axzz29LwUIqnI
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20121025-713029.html



P.S. in case you weren't aware, Fianna Fáil lead the country into the bailout

I actually voted for FG. They after all promised to clean up politics and get rid of the cronyism. They seemed to have a good 5 point plan.
Has politics changed one bit since they came into power? NO it has not and possibly the cronyism has increased and the lies have increased too.

I know the crooks who led us into trouble and I seem to have voted for the same types again to my shame.

mike65

meglome

EURATS wrote: »

No doubt...u can now report it back to ur "dear leader" and seek his praise for ur jotter notes!

Is interesting to see his nazi salute in today's Independant. Seems to be missing his blue shirt in the pic..but he is wearing it in the pic below with Francois Hollande

Love the picture, very Father Ted esk. Believe it or not I find it very easy to disagree with you all on my own.