Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

Ghandee

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Got to be a lie...nobody from Drumcondra mentioned

Bertie was mentioned, but only because he can't dodge the tax!
The loop hole only exists for pensions that exceed 100k in the one go. Ie the other lads might have various pensions which when combined put them over 100k, but the tax only kicks in on a single earning that exceeds 100k.

How the accountants didn't see that loophole a mile off astounds me.:pac:

dvpower

Am Chile wrote: »

The labour manifesto might of included a site value tax-but we all know a site value tax isn,t exactly whats planned for next year-we all know a market based value property tax is whats being planned.

We don't know exactly what's planned, but neither should we expect the shape of it to go all of Labour's way.

Le_Dieux

Ghandee wrote: »

How the accountants didn't see that loophole a mile off astounds me.:pac:

Probably because they were a part of the scam!

Ghandee

A site value tax could rake in millions per year from developers sitting on land banks.

Now, we constantly get told that our houses are fair game as they're 'assets'.

Jimmy property developer, with millions of euro's worth of land, just waiting to be developed would escape paying any 'asset tax' if it isn't a site value tax.

The above reason is why it more than likely won't be site valued.

Am Chile

With the letters gone out in different areas recently warning of court action in November-we all know they will only be able to take a small handfull of people to court-but before there is any court cases-I think they needs to be large protest pickets outside as many council offices around the country as possible-Il personally be going on a picket protest outside council offices in my area in the near enough future-how many anti household tax posters on here are willing to go on a picket protest outside council offices in their area in the near future ?

Le_Dieux

Am Chile wrote: »

With the letters gone out in different areas recently warning of court action in November-we all know they will only be able to take a small handfull of people to court-but before there is any court cases-I think they needs to be large protest pickets outside as many council offices around the country as possible-Il personally be going on a picket protest outside council offices in my area in the near enough future-how many anti household tax posters on here are willing to go on a picket protest outside council offices in their area in the near future ?

I am AC, but ONLY as long as there are no political party hangers on along the lines of what I saw online during the week whereby eirigi ( sp??) were marching. I think it was the glimore protest in Ballyfermot, but I could be wrong on this.

BTW, I was talking to a neighbour in our estate this afternoon, She got the accursed letter during the week, so guess my address is 'only around the corner'. Wonder what Frau Merkel's rant on Friday will do to the urgency of collecting this abominable HHC? If kenny had any balls, he'd stick his finger up at the fcuking lot of them.

Am Chile

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Demonstrations in London, Glasgow & Belfast today over austerity measures.

I am aware the UK ai't in the Eurozone, so not going to copy and paste except the link if anyone wants to check for reference (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20007496 )

I am referring to a certain paragraph near the bottom of the report which goes:
"More than 2.5 million people are out of work, a further three million are not working enough hours to make ends meet, and wages have been falling every month for the last three years."

It would be interesting to find out what numbers/percentage of the workforce here are also 'not working enough hours to make ends meet', but cannot find that figure anywhere.

Anyone have any insight into it?

I don,t have an insight for statistics/% of people not working enough hours to make ends meet-but just to comment on todays protest in belfast-I find it puzzling Jack O Connor was there speaking at it-meanwhile hes not doing much down here to fight austerity.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1020/anti-austerity-belfast.html

Am Chile

Le_Dieux wrote: »

I am AC, but ONLY as long as there are no political party hangers on along the lines of what I saw online during the week whereby eirigi ( sp??) were marching. I think it was the glimore protest in Ballyfermot, but I could be wrong on this.

BTW, I was talking to a neighbour in our estate this afternoon, She got the accursed letter during the week, so guess my address is 'only around the corner'. Wonder what Frau Merkel's rant on Friday will do to the urgency of collecting this abominable HHC? If kenny had any balls, he'd stick his finger up at the fcuking lot of them.

I was at a picket outside my council offices months ago via household tax, there was one or two people there with socialist party banners-I just didn,t walk behind them or walk next to them-sometimes at pickets or protest marches some people might bring along a socialist party banner or a sinn fein party banner, there can,t really do much about it when people bring a party banner along-just don,t march or walk behind a party banner.

Le_Dieux

Am Chile wrote: »

I don,t have an insight for statistics/% of people not working enough hours to make ends meet-but just to comment on todays protest in belfast-I find it puzzling Jack O Connor was there speaking at it-meanwhile hes not doing much down here to fight austerity.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1020/anti-austerity-belfast.html[/QUOTE]

On my opinion, he's doing sweet fcuk all AC. And yet his salary hasn't been affected by cutbacks....another leech screwing the worker!

Le_Dieux

And at least up in Belfast, they got off their arshes and marched....we just sit down down here and keep getting kicked in the goolies.

I was never a militant bloke, but this nonsense continues - I'll be volunteering to lead the marches!

Am Chile

Le_Dieux wrote: »

And at least up in Belfast, they got off their arshes and marched....we just sit down down here and keep getting kicked in the goolies.

I was never a militant bloke, but this nonsense continues - I'll be volunteering to lead the marches!

I think one mistake a lot of people who didn,t pay the household tax made was not to attend the protest marches to the fine gael and labour conferences earlier this year-or not attend any pickets on the local council-right we know from all the surveys/polls done in the media radio polls/tv show polls etc the vast majority were opposed to the household tax, along with a recent poll 66% opposed to a property tax-along with 700.000 still not registered-Imagine if thousands more had of attended the protest marchers earlier this year-it would of made a lot more impact-I notice the anti austerity protest marches up north seem to of being organised by the trade union movement up there-I think most of the trade unions here bar United have being sitting on the fence far too long-for arguments sake next year when they try bring in the value based property tax, imagine if most of the unions got off the fence and called on their members not to pay it and organised huge protest marches-dam well add to numbers not paying/add numbers to people marching-but I think sooner or later people are gonna be forced to make a stand-most Intelligent people know if we leave water rates/property taxes go unopposed, they will rise tenfold in a quite short time.

Am Chile

Even some in Fine Gael and Michael Martin admit we could be headed for mass street protests and unrest because of the recent revelations we won,t be getting no deal on the bank debt.

IRELAND'S "social stability" will fragment into Greek-style street protests
if the Government fails to get tough with Europe on the €64bn bank debt,
Taoiseach Enda Kennyhas been warned.

Opposition leader Micheal Martin, along with a senior Fine Gaelminister, warned Mr Kenny that
middle Ireland is at the brink and needs to "see light at the end of the
tunnel.

"If we bring middle Ireland onto the streets then it will be 'Goodbye Fine
Gael'," the Minister said.

Mr Martin also warned of unrest if a deal is not struck.

"The social solidarity which has characterised the Irish response to the
crisis will not last if we do not see any light at the end of the tunnel," he
said.

One senior Fine Gael minister said that unless a bank deal is secured, middle
Ireland could be forced on to the streets in protest.

The people are sick of austerity and not fit for it anymore. The people who
are suffering are the people of middle Ireland. They want to see some light at the end of the tunnel," the minister said.


The minster also warned that if Ireland does not obtain a deal, the
consequences for Fine Gael could be disastrous.

"If we bring middle Ireland on to the streets then it will be goodbye Fine
Gael. We will go the same way as Fianna Fail".


The Fine Gael TD Peter Mathews said Ireland should stop trying to be the best boy in the class and called on his own leadership to play hard ball, including by refusing to pay the remaining €36bn to bank bondholders.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/appeasing-merkel-has-cost-us-the-bank-deal-3266330.html

Le_Dieux

Thanks for that article AC - most interesting.

I thought this Matthews was speaking sense, until I came across this mentioned further down the article:

Mr Mathews also lashed out at Angela Merkel and her finance minister Wolfgang Shauble -- who he described as "brain dead" -- for placing the interests of Germany ahead of Europe.

Oh ffs Matthews, You are asking them for assistance, yet You call their FM 'BRAIN DEAD'?? And You give out for the Germans placing their OWN interest ahead of Europe's? What planet are YOU on?

I would never classify myself as a FG supporter, but your party(?) are sinking lower and lower by the day with what either unfolds or what one of Your gang say.

What scares the crap out of me though is what are the alternatives?:(

ilovesleep

Am Chile wrote: »

In todays Irish Independent we learn




http://www.independent.ie/national-news/expoliticians-escaping-20pc-tax-thanks-to-legal-loophole-3265683.html

We keep hearing from some people on here, and FG reps in the media we need to raise more money etc, yet they don,t seem to want to close any tax loopholes.

Imagine you had two incomes and you didn't declare them both, and the total income doesn't even have to be 100,000 euro, revenue will be on your ass for back tax owed and interest and penalities. These politicians will be getting away with their multiple pensions.

Just after last xmas, revenue cracked down on OAPs who didn't declare all their incomes including their pensions.

Maddening.

Le_Dieux

And at the same time, this is ongoing:

http://www.independent.ie/video/video-irish-news/richard-boyd-barrett-response-3265121.html

The whole fcukng LOT of them appear to be at it.

Yet they want to jump on the Germans back??? Get Your own house in order first, THEN go and speak with a clear conscience.

Ghandee

FG would not listen to actual business peoples advice on the fiscal treaty, and how, refusing to ratify it, at least until we received some kind of debt deal on the bank debt, we would, in effect be throwing away our only 'ace up our sleeves'.

After being kicked in the nuts by Angela though, Enda should now seriously consider using his only threat he has left, the other ace we have up our sleeves.

€32 billion has yet to be repaid to bondholders.

If Merkel and Co can renege on their promises to Ireland, surely we can renege on our previous govts promise (and insistence) that the bondholders get repaid in full.

Enda and the FG party's future may just rely on that 'ace'.

The time for them to start standing up to Europe has come, and if they're not tough enough to do the job, they should step aside IMO.



http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/ireland-gets-its-reward-for-being-eus-little-pet-poodle-nothing-3266223.html

ilovesleep

Ghandee wrote: »

FG would not listen to actual business peoples advice on the fiscal treaty, and how, refusing to ratify it, at least until we received some kind of debt deal on the bank debt, we would, in effect be throwing away our only 'ace up our sleeves'.

After being kicked in the nuts by Angela though, Enda should now seriously consider using his only threat he has left, the other ace we have up our sleeves.

€32 billion has yet to be repaid to bondholders.

If Merkel and Co can renege on their promises to Ireland, surely we can renege on our previous govts promise (and insistence) that the bondholders get repaid in full.

Enda and the FG party's future may just rely on that 'ace'.

The time for them to start standing up to Europe has come, and if they're not tough enough to do the job, they should step aside IMO.



http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/ireland-gets-its-reward-for-being-eus-little-pet-poodle-nothing-3266223.html

Enda is a two faced, dick. He's for Europe and not for us. All he cares about is showing Merkel what sort of good boys and girls us Irish are, learning hard from our lessons,.in the hope of getting some sort of a deal on Irelands future. You silly boy Enda - it's never going to come without you fighting for it.

Chucky the tree

Ghandee wrote: »

FG would not listen to actual business peoples advice on the fiscal treaty, and how, refusing to ratify it, at least until we received some kind of debt deal on the bank debt, we would, in effect be throwing away our only 'ace up our sleeves'.

After being kicked in the nuts by Angela though, Enda should now seriously consider using his only threat he has left, the other ace we have up our sleeves.

€32 billion has yet to be repaid to bondholders.

If Merkel and Co can renege on their promises to Ireland, surely we can renege on our previous govts promise (and insistence) that the bondholders get repaid in full.

Enda and the FG party's future may just rely on that 'ace'.

The time for them to start standing up to Europe has come, and if they're not tough enough to do the job, they should step aside IMO.



http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/ireland-gets-its-reward-for-being-eus-little-pet-poodle-nothing-3266223.html

So you'd be happy having to raise taxes and implement cuts worth €20bn over night?

Ghandee

ilovesleep wrote: »

Enda is a two faced, dick. He's for Europe and not for us. All he cares about is showing Merkel what sort of good boys and girls us Irish are, learning hard from our lessons,.in the hope of getting some sort of a deal on Irelands future. You silly boy Enda - it's never going to come without you fighting for it.

If Ireland is 'hitting its targets and on track' why the fcuk would they give us a write down?

If I went to the bank and told them I want a mortgage write down, but I was not in arrears (but may be in distress) unless the bank could see that I was clearly struggling and would more than likely default unless they 'helped' me in some way (to protect their own investment and loan) why would the bank do anything for me?


The time for niceties is well and truly over now.

Ghandee

Chucky the tree wrote: »

So you'd be happy having to raise taxes and implement cuts worth €20bn over night?

Refuse to hand over the 32€ billion to bondholders that's due to be repaid, troika already admitted they never insisted bondholders got repaid,b they said it was the previous governments insistence on this.

Now, there's 20 billion to plug the cuts, 12 billion left over too.

Chucky the tree

Ghandee wrote: »

Refuse to hand over the 32€ billion to bondholders that's due to be repaid, troika already admitted they never insisted bondholders got repaid,b they said it was the previous governments insistence on this.

Now, there's 20 billion to plug the cuts, 12 billion left over too.

Ah the troika said it. Must be true so.

Ghandee

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Ah the troika said it. Must be true so.

Do you believe everything our govt tell you?

Chucky the tree

Ghandee wrote: »

Do you believe everything our govt tell you?

No, unlike you I don't believe everything I read/hear from a politician.

mike65

Water meter roll out completion delayed until 2016 (well timed!)

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/water-meter-rollout-will-be-delayed-until-2016-3266303.html

The article states that as charging starts in 2014 many will be paying for unmetered water, wonder how that will work? Just assume an average and charge that?

Ghandee

Chucky the tree wrote: »

No, unlike you I don't believe everything I read/hear from a politician.

Exactly, something we agree on.

I don't believe anything from any of the politicians in govt though.

Only put in place to serve themselves.

bgrizzley

mike65 wrote: »

Water meter roll out completion delayed until 2016 (well timed!)

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/water-meter-rollout-will-be-delayed-until-2016-3266303.html

The article states that as charging starts in 2014 many will be paying for unmetered water, wonder how that will work? Just assume an average and charge that?

Going by the quote below, it means at least E400 PA


Last month, Bord Gais boss, John Mullins, said that water charges could cost households anything between €100 and €400 a year. Householders are likely to receive their water bills every three months. The Commission for Energy Regulation (CER) will regulate and set water charges.



Also bear in mind the CER involvement, same crowd that took us from having the cheapest electricity in Europe to one of the most expensive...

darkhorse

mike65 wrote: »

Water meter roll out completion delayed until 2016 (well timed!)

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/water-meter-rollout-will-be-delayed-until-2016-3266303.html

The article states that as charging starts in 2014 many will be paying for unmetered water, wonder how that will work? Just assume an average and charge that?

So thats another service that won't be included in the property tax payment. I wonder will tax payers get any dispension, due to the fact that part of their taxes is already paying for this service anyway. Methinks that I may be one of the oldest emigrants in town in the near future.

Am Chile

darkhorse wrote: »

So thats another service that won't be included in the property tax payment. I wonder will tax payers get any dispension, due to the fact that part of their taxes is already paying for this service anyway. Methinks that I may be one of the oldest emigrants in town in the near future.

Water is already being paid for from central taxation. It was never 'free- when they try to charge. Just like the household tax, people should just refuse to pay it. All kinds of threats will come no doubt,even threats of cut offs. As soon as it happens the supply will be turned on again just like the last time they tried to bring in water taxes-even at the moment with commercial water rates up to 50% water bills remain unpaid yet to to be collected, if they re having trouble collecting water rates from up to half of businesses they will have even more trouble trying to collect unpaid domestic water rates when faced with a mass boycott -one Incident during the last anti water charges campaign a private water crew tried to turn off residents water supply-their van was surrounded by angry mobs of people and they trapped for hours -

The only real purpose in setting up Irish Water is to pave the way for the eventual privatisation of water - a bonanza to be handed over to a private operator to profiteer from a vital resource. Otherwise, the government would leave water in control of local authorities.--I was never a fan of John Gormley or the greens but I agree with his analysis he wrote about Irish Water how its a stepping stone to privatisation of water services, John is correct saying Irish Water is a brainchild of FG.

http://www.villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2012/09/establishing-irish-water-heralds-its-privatisation/

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/1015/1224325258768.html

dxhound2005

Am Chile wrote: »

Water is already being paid for from central taxation. It was never 'free- when they try to charge. Just like the household tax, people should just refuse to pay it. All kinds of threats will come no doubt,even threats of cut offs. As soon as it happens the supply will be turned on again just like the last time they tried to bring in water taxes-even at the moment with commercial water rates up to 50% water bills remain unpaid yet to to be collected, if they re having trouble collecting water rates from up to half of businesses they will have even more trouble trying to collect unpaid domestic water rates when faced with a mass boycott -one Incident during the last anti water charges campaign a private water crew tried to turn off residents water supply-their van was surrounded by angry mobs of people and they trapped for hours -

The only real purpose in setting up Irish Water is to pave the way for the eventual privatisation of water - a bonanza to be handed over to a private operator to profiteer from a vital resource. Otherwise, the government would leave water in control of local authorities.--I was never a fan of John Gormley or the greens but I agree with his analysis he wrote about Irish Water how its a stepping stone to privatisation of water services, John is correct saying Irish Water is a brainchild of FG.

http://www.villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2012/09/establishing-irish-water-heralds-its-privatisation/

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/1015/1224325258768.html

People pay for water in other countries and I haven't heard of any great problems with the system anywhere. In England and Wales (water charges are separate from Council Tax) you don't get cut off for not paying but there is a process which happens, described here.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/consumer_w/consumer_energy_and_water_supply_e/consumer_water_supply_e/consumer_problems_with_paying_your_water_bill_e/if_you_dont_pay_your_water_bill.htm

If there was a similar system here I suppose mobs could be summoned up but like property tax I predict people will get used to the setup when it becomes established. Central taxation having to cover all spending has not worked out as proved by the privitisation of refuse collection.

Le_Dieux

And now it just keeps spinning... So Pat, tell me, who should the public believe more? Yourselves or Frau Merkel?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1021/eamon-gilmore-europe.html#article

I listened to an interpretation of Her speech,. and do NOT recall the word Spanien being mentioned.

Why can't You people wake up and realise before the country sinks that we are stuffed. AT LEAST have the balls to accept the facts, and lets move forward to.........................................?????

Heavens Help Our beautiful Nation, because all we have here are minister's so far removed from REALITY it is scary!