Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

dvpower

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

dv, I have already clearly outlined why I think this tax is unfair. So you know my stance.

I get why you think its unfair - you just haven't made a case (imho) that it's more 'unfair' than any other tax.

As for it being immoral...

Hijpo

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Income tax is where any additional tax should be raised. Additional bands should be created. I never understood the reason behind having just the two bands. There should be multiple bands on a proper tiered table.

because anyone over 100,000 would have to part with more of there precious money. people like the 1700 bankers on 100,000 a year and poor oul enda, sure they just couldnt live without a few hundred notes less, there circumstances just wouldnt allow it.

dxhound2005

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

dv, I have already clearly outlined why I think this tax is unfair. So you know my stance.

I can quote my earlier post if you wish, but it's right there, a few posts up.

Enda is a liar and was always suited to opposition. I have never voted FF.

Jaysus, it's getting to the stage I am considering voting SF.

How fair do you think this is?


If you don't pay your rates

If you do not pay your rates or contact LPS to make an arrangement to clear your account, you will be taken to court. This will mean:
•additional costs
•your credit rating could be affected, and as a result you may not be able to apply for credit or a loan
•you could be made bankrupt
•your home could be repossessed

In 2011 - 12 court action was taken against 45,902 ratepayers for non-payment of rates.



http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/what-happens-if-i-don-t-pay-my-rates

That is what SF are standing over in coalition in the North.

dvpower

Hijpo wrote: »

playing politics? a game to these politicians is it?

'fraid so.

Hijpo wrote: »

i think its immoral to the point where a basic human principle of allowing working class people to live comfortably in there own home that they are working and paying enough for, is now being taken away by putting more financial burden on the people because of the home that they have worked hard to acquire and maintane

That doesn't explain at all how it's immoral.
Income tax and VAT (and the rest of them) place all the same kinds of financial burdens on people. Maybe all taxes are immoral?

Can anyone clearly explain why Property Taxes aren't moral but other taxes are (rhet)?

Micky Dolenz

dvpower wrote: »

I get why you think its unfair - you just haven't made a case (imho) that it's more 'unfair' than any other tax.

As for it being immoral...

I never used the immoral word. YourTaoiseach did. dv, we can go around the houses all night if you wish. It's a game I can play.

So I haven't made my case why I think it's more or less unfair than the other taxes we pay?

So where do we stop dv, at what point do we say, "I can't live a comfortable life as I have another tax I can't justify that needs paying" I can only assume you are in a very very stable job or don't own a house to proclaim such things.

Hijpo

dvpower wrote: »

'fraid so.



That doesn't explain at all how it's immoral.
Income tax and VAT (and the rest of them) place all the same kinds of financial burdens on people. Maybe all taxes are immoral?

Can anyone clearly explain why Property Taxes aren't moral but other taxes are (rhet)?

You dont pay tax if your income is below a certain amount. VAT attributed to items you have a choice in buying?

tunedout

dvpower wrote: »

'fraid so.



That doesn't explain at all how it's immoral.
Income tax and VAT (and the rest of them) place all the same kinds of financial burdens on people. Maybe all taxes are immoral?

Can anyone clearly explain why Property Taxes aren't moral but other taxes are (rhet)?

Have you some strange fetish for the Property Taxes?

I think you have a thousand or so posts at this stage advocating and defending the property taxes.

You'd want to get your head checked.

Bullseye1

Waste by local authorities is confidently forgotten by those in favour. Waste of public funds like voting machines, purchase of bottle bank lands by public bodies, incinerators that will never be built etc etc.

You know what they say about a fool and his money. It's easily parted. Unless people get the real political change they were promised and deserve. People are rightly reluctant to hand over any more of their hard earned cash.

Micky Dolenz

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How fair do you think this is?


If you don't pay your rates

If you do not pay your rates or contact LPS to make an arrangement to clear your account, you will be taken to court. This will mean:
•additional costs
•your credit rating could be affected, and as a result you may not be able to apply for credit or a loan
•you could be made bankrupt
•your home could be repossessed

In 2011 - 12 court action was taken against 45,902 ratepayers for non-payment of rates.



http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/what-happens-if-i-don-t-pay-my-rates

That is what SF are standing over in coalition in the North.

And what do they get for their rates as opposed to our property tax?

Hijpo

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

And what do they get for their rates as opposed to our property tax?

They dont like to acknowledge that argument micky

Bullseye1

There are people rubbing their hands at the thought of a property tax. Think of all that money to waste and those unvouched expenses. The gravy train still exists and the shills want to protect that income now that central government is tightening the purse strings.

QUOTE=tunedout;81334873]Have you some strange fetish for the Property Taxes?

I think you have a thousand or so posts at this stage advocating and defending the property taxes.

You'd want to get your head checked.[/QUOTE]

dvpower

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I never used the immoral word. YourTaoiseach did. dv, we can go around the houses all night if you wish. It's a game I can play.

You posted the 18 year old quotes about Enda Kenny's views on the morality of a property tax. Forgive me for thinking that you wanted to discuss them

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

So I haven't made my case why I think it's more or less unfair than the other taxes we pay?

No. You've made no case for the relative merits of the various kinds of taxes that we pay at all.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

So where do we stop dv, at what point do we say, "I can't live a comfortable life as I have another tax I can't justify that needs paying" I can only assume you are in a very very stable job or don't own a house to proclaim such things.

That's a good argument against excessive taxes of any kind; one I broadly agree with. It is not a good argument against the property tax at all - unless you think that the ready made alternative to the property tax is no tax at all.

dvpower

tunedout wrote: »

Have you some strange fetish for the Property Taxes?

Not really, but this is a discussion thread about the property tax, so be prepared to experience people getting that whole thing on.

Bullseye1

How about we spend less like any proper run company. Cut your cloth and all that jazz. Our government is way too big and needs to be halved in size.

dxhound2005

zerks wrote: »

DON'T REGISTER, DON'T PAY!!

This is an invitation to private property owners to break the law. The people issuing these invitations will not be around to help private property owners if they decide to follow this course and then find that this causes difficulties.

Some people have already lost money by paying late and there will be other consequences like legal problems and extra expence with inheritance when a person dies and the charge is outstanding.

dvpower

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

And what do they get for their rates as opposed to our property tax?

Hijpo wrote: »

They dont like to acknowledge that argument micky

Is it unfair or immoral because we don't get good value for money? Is that any different from any of the other taxes we pay or is it that local government is substantially more wasteful that national government?

It's funny - I never heard anyone saying that they would refuse to pay the USC

Micky Dolenz

dvpower wrote: »

You posted the 18 year old quotes about Enda Kenny's views on the morality of a property tax. Forgive me for thinking that you wanted to discuss them


No. You've made no case for the relative merits of the various kinds of taxes that we pay at all.



That's a good argument against excessive taxes of any kind; one I broadly agree with. It is not a good argument against the property tax at all - unless you think that the ready made alternative to the property tax is no tax at all.

Heh, no tax at all? you are kidding, right?

We, as tax payers of the Republic of Ireland are taxed up the arse, we pay tax for loads of things and more then once. Roads, food (produced on the island) "luxury items" etc etc, yadda yadda.

I always believed your posts were of a neutral civil servant, now I believe them to be of a FG employee.

Hijpo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

This is an invitation to private property owners to break the law. The people issuing these invitations will not be around to help private property owners if they decide to follow this course and then find that this causes difficulties.

Some people have already lost money by paying late and there will be other consequences like legal problems and extra expence with inheritance when a person dies and the charge is outstanding.

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Are the government opening the new HHC threat letters to tender?

Bullseye1

It's certainly a better invitation than wasting ones money.

Bullseye1

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Heh, no tax at all? you are kidding, right?

We, as tax payers of the Republic of Ireland are taxed up the arse, we pay tax for loads of things and more then once. Roads, food (produced on the island) "luxury items" etc etc, yadda yadda.

I always believed your posts were of a neutral civil servant, now I believe them to be of a FG employee.

Trying to protect what they got. It would have been better for us if the IMF were running the show.

Hijpo

dvpower wrote: »

Is it unfair or immoral because we don't get good value for money? Is that any different from any of the other taxes we pay or is it that local government is substantially more wasteful that national government?

It's funny - I never heard anyone saying that they would refuse to pay the USC

Depends, do you think the USC is just another way for the government to make a few quid so they will be able pay a few bonuses to civil servants and pay rises for there advisors?

What does the USC go towards? is it ring fenced for anything?

Micky Dolenz

dxhound2005 wrote: »

This is an invitation to private property owners to break the law. The people issuing these invitations will not be around to help private property owners if they decide to follow this course and then find that this causes difficulties.

Some people have already lost money by paying late and there will be other consequences like legal problems and extra expence with inheritance when a person dies and the charge is outstanding.

Scare tactics.

Your government will not be in power over generations. Don't fool yourself in to thinking that.

The current government, with this tax does not represent the majority of voters. They need to address their stance or they will not have another term.

They are losing voters on a stupid law when they don't need too.

dvpower

Bullseye1 wrote: »

How about we spend less like any proper run company. Cut your cloth and all that jazz. Our government is way too big and needs to be halved in size.

Half? How many Doctors, Gardai, Teachers and Firefighters do you intend sacking? Do we reduce social protection payments by 50% too?

squod

dxhound2005 wrote: »

This is an invitation to private property owners to break the law. The people issuing these invitations will not be around to help private property owners if they decide to follow this course and then find that this causes difficulties.

Some people have already lost money by paying late and there will be other consequences like legal problems and extra expence with inheritance when a person dies and the charge is outstanding.

What's more likely is that this issue will be buried by the following administration. That those who opposed the charges will have been seen to have done the right thing and that eventually the politicians and civil servants who developed these levies will spend time behind bars for the mass fraud perpetrated on Irish people.

dvpower

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Heh, no tax at all? you are kidding, right?

No - not not tax at all; - no Property Tax.
What (if anything) do you think should replace the property tax.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

We, as tax payers of the Republic of Ireland are taxed up the arse, we pay tax for loads of things and more then once. Roads, food (produced on the island) "luxury items" etc etc, yadda yadda.

So, your argument is against tax increases in general, not the property tax specifically?

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I always believed your posts were of a neutral civil servant, now I believe them to be of a FG employee.

Wrong twice in the one sentence. Nice.

Hijpo

dvpower wrote: »

Half? How many Doctors, Gardai, Teachers and Firefighters do you intend sacking? Do we reduce social protection payments by 50% too?

any firemen in the dail lads?

Couple of teachers that havent a clue and need to pay a team of advisors are in there i know but firemen no. could be handy to have though. All the hot air been blown around up there could be a fire hazard. jesus probably shouldnt have said that, they will need to set up a 6 man committee to look into the chances of it happening, then hire 4 fire officers and 4 deputy fire officers while its being investigated incase it happens while the ivestigation is taking place. Put them all on about 100,000 a year less allowances an added a 30k top up if they have to make a "nee naw" sound while doing a fire drill.

dvpower

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

They are losing voters on a stupid law when they don't need too.

The alternative - that doesn't lose voters - is? ....

Bullseye1

Administrators is where I would start, civil servents, TDs, management. I'm sure we could knock 100,000 out of public employment.

I'm all for private industry employment.

There is a lot of time wasted by Garda stopping people for motor tax when they could be better employed. Computer technology is sufficency advanced to prosecute those driving without motor tax.

dxhound2005

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Scare tactics.

Your government will not be in power over generations. Don't fool yourself in to thinking that.

The current government, with this tax does not represent the majority of voters. They need to address their stance or they will not have another term.

They are losing voters on a stupid law when they don't need too.

The poll yesterday gave the government parties an increase. Sinn Fein was the biggest loser down 4%. There was a question about property tax which produced a majority against. But I suspect if the question was do you want to increase VAT for instance (or anything that will cost people money) that would produce a similar response.

This is a new tax/charge here but it is common all round the world without society breaking down. It will become part of the mix of taxes here. You needn't be depending on any parties likely to feature in government in the near future to abolish it.

dvpower

Hijpo wrote: »

any firemen in the dail lads?

Couple of teachers that havent a clue and need to pay a team of advisors are in there i know but firemen no. could be handy to have though. All the hot air been blown around up there could be a fire hazard. jesus probably shouldnt have said that, they will need to set up a 6 man committee to look into the chances of it happening, then hire 4 fire officers and 4 deputy fire officers while its being investigated incase it happens while the ivestigation is taking place. Put them all on about 100,000 a year less allowances an added a 30k top up if they have to make a "nee naw" sound while doing a fire drill.

Ah. Forgive me. I thought you were putting forward a radical cost cutting plan. When really you were just spouting the tired old 'sack the politicians - that'll fix it' silliness.
Sorry about that - I made the mistake of expecting some sense from you.