'N for novice' plate in new learner driver laws

Merch

GhostInTheRuins wrote: »

Nobody is going to keep the N plates up for two years though, are they? Just like loads of people take their L plates down until they're doing the test.

The penalty point thing I agree with. I know someone who is just leaning how to drive and she is absolutely lethal behind the wheel. There's no way she should be on the roads. She got six penalty points in one day last month, but not to worry, her mother (who no longer drives) went down to the garda station and got them transferred onto her license. That needs to be changed.

A good incentive would be to have to go back to square one if caught without it, licence revoked!
How could someone transfer points to their licence and if so why is it allowed, no offence I cant believe this, is that possible, surely not?

The_B_Man wrote: »

FFS, I'm learning now (half way through lessons) and I just know that my insurance will go up as long as I have this "N" plate!

It wont go up, it will be up already

Procrastastudy wrote: »

I drive pretty quickly, sometimes...

If I have the L-plate up it doesn't matter how fast I'm going someone, usually in an Audi, is always sitting on my arse or trying to overtake. I don't think N plates are a good idea.

Also has anyone else noticed that everyone with a 'Baby on Board' sticker drives like a loon?

Commence flaming for driving as a learner with no L plate up.

What car do you drive so I can avoid you
I give allowance to L drivers, you will always come across tools that drive up your arse, but maybe they are pissed, as it sounds like you are driving on your own, maybe you are making mistakes that are annoying and they are then annoyed as not only are you doing it wrong, but are unaware of this?

No, I havent noticed this, baby on board sticker tendency, I think if someone does something and you see a baby on board sticker you are making a connection, same with Audi etc. If someone was driving a focus (lots of them) you proably dont assume they are all bad drivers, just that you came across a tool.

JohnMarston wrote: »

So learner drivers are expected to drive damn near perfect in their test to pass (still can depend on mood of tester) just so their certificate of competency is followed up with a figurative dunce cap for two years?

Passing the test isnt the be all and end all, its the start really. Too many people think "ah passed the test, now relax, can drive how I please, phew" thats all over, well no it isn't, its just the start. As you seem to be starting out with that view, I think its not the best.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

It's a start, but they also need to change the re licencing rules.

Once your licence is expired, you should have to resit the test. At the moment, i believe you have 3 years to apply for a new one without any test. That's just lunacy.

Also, the Gardai should have the power to make someone take the test. If they fail the test, licence is gone and they have to start from scratch. If they pass, fine/points.

I thought it was ten years.

Merch

Nichololas wrote: »

There's more to it than inexperienced learner drivers not being great at driving (shocker). The amount of ire and anger directed at anybody with L plates on the roads is awful. It's not surprising that a lot of learner drivers remove the L plates because some pr*cks have this attitude that "oh there's a learner driver ahead of me, therefore he/she must be driving too slow/doing something wrong".

I dont believe it is directed at just L drivers, maybe you had an L plate up and thought it was all for you,

OR

Maybe like some people I have come across, could be nothing other than learners, had no plate up on their car, no one with them and couldn't manage lights/junctions/roundabouts, taking ages.
If a person like that has ire directed at them they deserve it, I wasnt all for the accompanied thing really, but if you're going to drive while learning and cant manage junctions/dont have a clue what you're at, wont put up an L plate then expect a bit of ire or at least stay off the roads at peak times, you're not meant to be there anyway and you're creating a hazard, (that has been my experience).

Procrastastudy

Merch wrote: »

What car do you drive so I can avoid you

I give allowance to L drivers, you will always come across tools that drive up your arse, but maybe they are pissed, as it sounds like you are driving on your own, maybe you are making mistakes that are annoying and they are then annoyed as not only are you doing it wrong, but are unaware of this?

As a learner I have to admit this is a possibility. That said I do know what I failed my test on and lights, lanes etc wasn't it. The point I was making, rather flippantly I admit, was that I think there is a tenancy to see L or N plates and just assume the person cant drive. (okay L plates they shouldn't be driving on their own I admit) The same people who make these assumptions, generally, themselves wouldn't be the best drivers so makes them more likely to do something stupid. e.g. overtake an N plate driver doing 48Kph in a 50 because they see the N plate and assume the person is driving too slowly.

Undercover Elephant

Merch wrote: »

How could someone transfer points to their licence

Illegally.

HeyThereDeliah

GhostInTheRuins wrote: »

She got six penalty points in one day last month, but not to worry, her mother (who no longer drives) went down to the garda station and got them transferred onto her license. That needs to be changed.

How did she do this?
Did she nominate the mother as the driver? You cannot just go to the Garda station and transfer points onto someone else's lic.

lost marbles

the africans wont like this .:)

Feisar

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I like this idea. I started driving a year ago and got my full license about 4 months ago.

Having the L plates up, for the most part, meant most people were patient enough and calm enough to let you make mistakes, were obliging enough to be careful around you and what have you. But I know, personally, the day I took down the L plate, I saw a change in the way drivers treated you on the road.

Passing the test didn't mean I was a perfect driver; it meant I drove well for about 40 minutes. I still make mistakes, stall the car, etc. Only now people don't expect that to happen. I'd be quite happy to have some sign in my car which lets people know "Hey, I know what I'm doing, but I'm still new-ish, so back the **** off".

I agree with the sentiment but we should all back the **** off from everyone and chill out.
For example I don't sit it straighter and pay more attention to my driving just because I see a silly Baby on Board sticker. I don't care if all the babies ever were on board I haven't got anything left in the care tank, we're maxing out at all times!

Feisar

JohnMarston wrote: »

So learner drivers are expected to drive damn near perfect in their test to pass (still can depend on mood of tester) just so their certificate of competency is followed up with a figurative dunce cap for two years?

I agree, one is either capable of driving or not.

antodeco

I think what would make more sense is this:

Provisional > Lessons > Intermediate Licence > Advanced Lessons > Full Licence.

Advanced lessons should be:
Skid handling
Brake failures
Tyre Blow Outs
Heavy Load handling

Merch

Procrastastudy wrote: »

As a learner I have to admit this is a possibility. That said I do know what I failed my test on and lights, lanes etc wasn't it. The point I was making, rather flippantly I admit, was that I think there is a tenancy to see L or N plates and just assume the person cant drive. (okay L plates they shouldn't be driving on their own I admit) The same people who make these assumptions, generally, themselves wouldn't be the best drivers so makes them more likely to do something stupid. e.g. overtake an N plate driver doing 48Kph in a 50 because they see the N plate and assume the person is driving too slowly.

:eek: At least you're honest i suppose. some people will see L or any future N plates as a nuisance, but those people may also see anyone as a nuisance. If someone is driving like they dont know what they are doing, then i think they should have the cop on to stay off the road when unaccompanied especially at peak times, thsat goes for you whomever you are "Mrs drop her kids to school around the corner but cant drive near me" I think she should walk, but then again Im sure she is oblivious to her errors and the delays they cause, I didnt even get impatient.

Undercover Elephant wrote: »

Illegally.

ok, but how?? for that to occur then someone else had to do something illegal, surely?

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

How did she do this?
Did she nominate the mother as the driver? You cannot just go to the Garda station and transfer points onto someone else's lic.

Surely even suggesting (to a garda) this should be illegal, it sounds like soliciting a garda to do something illegal, which is worse than the original offence.

Cuddlesworth

JohnMarston wrote: »

So learner drivers are expected to drive damn near perfect in their test to pass (still can depend on mood of tester) just so their certificate of competency is followed up with a figurative dunce cap for two years?

I've passed two driving tests first time, both times.

I passed my gardai bikesafe course with no criticism, one hour of riding with a member of the force beside me.

I passed my insurance assessment with top marks, four hours of training followed by a two hour exam(although the assessment is really based on the whole day).

I'm doing some more training to become ROSPA certified in the new year.

The current driving test is the most basic test possible and anybody who has passed holds a cert to say they have the most basic level of competency on the road. I hold no respect for people who have the attitude that their license is the last point in their driving lifetime to allow any criticism or learning.

The only reason that retesting across any age group is so vehemently resisted, is the majority of the driving population would currently fail that basic test if asked to repeat it. And that is a truly sickening thought.

Merch

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The current driving test is the most basic test possible and anybody who has passed holds a cert to say they have the most basic level of competency on the road. I hold no respect for people who have the attitude that their license is the last point in their driving lifetime to allow any criticism or learning.

The only reason that retesting across any age group is so vehemently resisted, is the majority of the driving population would currently EPICLY fail that basic test if asked to repeat it. And that is a truly sickening thought.

I think this is appropriate

HeyThereDeliah

Merch wrote: »

Surely even suggesting (to a garda) this should be illegal, it sounds like soliciting a garda to do something illegal, which is worse than the original offence.

It is and you can be prosecuted for it, it's not up to the Gardai in the first place, you get the fine and fill out the driver details, nothing to do with the Garda station.
That poster is talking nonsense.

Merch

lost marbles wrote: »

the africans wont like this .:)

Huh? why not?

antodeco wrote: »

I think what would make more sense is this:

Provisional > Lessons > Intermediate Licence > Advanced Lessons > Full Licence.

Advanced lessons should be:
Skid handling
Brake failures
Tyre Blow Outs
Heavy Load handling

I would like to do something like that, must look into it, available in Ireland? I wonder.

I think a bit of experience under the belt driving would go towards this though, so wouldnt recommend a learner to do it.

Where To

I used to think I was the best driver on the road. Now, the older I get, the more inexperienced I get.

Driving is like life. The day you stop learning is the day you turn off the road.

Procrastastudy

Merch wrote: »

Huh? why not?

Think about it for a while

Nichololas

Merch wrote: »

I dont believe it is directed at just L drivers, maybe you had an L plate up and thought it was all for you,

OR

Maybe like some people I have come across, could be nothing other than learners, had no plate up on their car, no one with them and couldn't manage lights/junctions/roundabouts, taking ages.
If a person like that has ire directed at them they deserve it, I wasnt all for the accompanied thing really, but if you're going to drive while learning and cant manage junctions/dont have a clue what you're at, wont put up an L plate then expect a bit of ire or at least stay off the roads at peak times, you're not meant to be there anyway and you're creating a hazard, (that has been my experience).

Having L plates on doesn't necessarily mean you're a bad driver, much like not having one doesn't actually mean you're a good one (or not a learner, as it is), but it does colour other driver's perception of you and a lot of people seem to get more irritated at L plates' driver error than the same situation without L plates.

antodeco wrote: »

I think what would make more sense is this:

Provisional > Lessons > Intermediate Licence > Advanced Lessons > Full Licence.

Or;
Lessons > Provisional > Advanced Lessons > Full Licence

With lessons being in a driving centre of some kind.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

All drivers should be re-tested at least every five years. Anyone opposed to that is probably a sh*t driver who knows deep down all their dangerous bad habits will be exposed.

Pherekydes

Does anyone else think they should have checked the meaning of 'novice' before using that appelation?

oppenheimer1

JohnMarston wrote: »

So learner drivers are expected to drive damn near perfect in their test to pass (still can depend on mood of tester) just so their certificate of competency is followed up with a figurative dunce cap for two years?

When someone graduates from college they're not expected to be a master of it all. There are some things which can only be gained through the experience of driving for a long time.

Procrastastudy

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

When someone graduates from college they're not expected to be a master of it all. There are some things which can only be gained through the experience of driving for a long time.

For the sake of insurance and liability in an accident no account is taken of how long someone has been driving. It's purely objective. As for things gained over a long time I entirely agree but thats also how most bad habits form.

pickarooney

antodeco wrote: »

I think what would make more sense is this:

Provisional > Lessons > Intermediate Licence > Advanced Lessons > Full Licence.

Advanced lessons should be:
Skid handling
Brake failures
Tyre Blow Outs
Heavy Load handling

There should be lessons in driving while texting, tipsy and tardy for the advanced licence as well. Why punish the good multitasking drivers for the deficiencies of the narrowband strugglers?

PC CDROM

Merch wrote: »

Huh? why not?


.

N

oppenheimer1

Procrastastudy wrote: »

For the sake of insurance and liability in an accident no account is taken of how long someone has been driving. It's purely objective. As for things gained over a long time I entirely agree but thats also how most bad habits form.

In the situation of an accident of course there is no consideration given to experience, its not relevant in the determination of the blame for a specific incident. However insurance premiums do reflect the level of experience of the driver.

Merch

Nichololas wrote: »

Having L plates on doesn't necessarily mean you're a bad driver, much like not having one doesn't actually mean you're a good one (or not a learner, as it is), but it does colour other driver's perception of you and a lot of people seem to get more irritated at L plates' driver error than the same situation without L plates.

Or;
Lessons > Provisional > Advanced Lessons > Full Licence

With lessons being in a driving centre of some kind.

I never said having L plates makes every L driver bad, but its a good bet they are inexperienced, so should advertise that fact, its required.There are plenty of people with full licences that are bad, either bad habits or never learned right, whatever and everyone including me is capable of errors. When you think you're right and everyone else is wrong, you're pretty much scuppered from improving.
You say it colours other drivers perception of L drivers that display a plate, I dont agree, thats your opinion, as an L driver?
It annoys me when it is clear someone is an L driver and displays that fact by being on the road like they are driving for the first time (and they are alone into the bargain)

The Full Licence is the basic requirement, with experience Advanced lessons would come after that, not before in my opinion.

Pherekydes wrote: »

Does anyone else think they should have checked the meaning of 'novice' before using that appelation?

R for restricted would be sensible, full licence, restricted for 2 years.

leahyl

Lol at 'novice' - there are plenty of people on the roads who have been driving for years and they are more 'novice' than a lot of the newly qualified drivers...

Macca07

Two things need to happen.

1. Driving instructions brought in at school level like in the U.S. Make Transition Year somewhat useful to students. They still need to do the 12 hours of lessons but at least this way they'll have a bit more experience.

2. Re-sit the driving test every 5-10 years. I know a lot of people would be against this, but it's the only way to ensure the people on the road are somewhat able to drive.

I tend to be a lot more tolerant with L drivers, so the N sticker would be benefical too, but 2 years is too long, make it a year.

Merch

PC CDROM wrote: »

N

I see, jeez thought it was something to do with driving, what about white africans? or Indian africans?

Macca07 wrote: »

Two things need to happen.

1. Driving instructions brought in at school level like in the U.S. Make Transition Year somewhat useful to students. They still need to do the 12 hours of lessons but at least this way they'll have a bit more experience.

2. Re-sit the driving test every 5-10 years. I know a lot of people would be against this, but it's the only way to ensure the people on the road are somewhat able to drive.

I tend to be a lot more tolerant with L drivers, so the N sticker would be benefical too, but 2 years is too long, make it a year.

you sound like you are learning,
Absolutely no requirement for this to be done in schools here, think they are trying (despite contradictory stuff) to get people on public transport, If i have kids in school I want them to be learning maths, science, whatever not driving, should disband transition year too.

resits, hard to say, i'd suggest doing check ride type tests, not the full test, that way they might be able to get more through the system, but there would have to be reason AND rhyme to it, not just going through the motions to get money in,

2 years is fine, that will weed out people that cant abide by the rules

JohnMarston

Macca07 wrote: »

Two things need to happen.

1. Driving instructions brought in at school level like in the U.S. Make Transition Year somewhat useful to students. They still need to do the 12 hours of lessons but at least this way they'll have a bit more experience.

2. Re-sit the driving test every 5-10 years. I know a lot of people would be against this, but it's the only way to ensure the people on the road are somewhat able to drive.

I tend to be a lot more tolerant with L drivers, so the N sticker would be benefical too, but 2 years is too long, make it a year.

Good points, especially the one about TY students taking driving lessons. It will give them a head start.

The Irish Riddler

From next summer newly qualified drivers will be termed novice drivers and as such will have to display N plates on the car for 2 years after passing the driving test.

They will be put off the road after gaining 6 penalty points and each offence carries higher points:

speeding 4 points
using the mobile 4 points
no seatbelt 3 points

Now while I dont have much of a problem with the penalty points I do think they are slightly harsh as its over a 3 year period and you could easily do 2km over the limit in a 30km/h zone and be put off the road.

My particular grivance is the N plate. Having to do my test later in life I will feel like a complete numpty with this N on my car for 2 years. I can't see any benefit to it as it won't make things safer so whats the point of it? If you don't display it you get penalty points.