'N for novice' plate in new learner driver laws

davet82

LEARNERS and newly qualified drivers will be put off the road if they clock up just six penalty points under tough new rules to become law next summer.

The government has decided to halve the number of points a learner driver can rack up before they are banned for six months.

The measure is also likely to be applied to offending motorists for two years after they pass their test, the Irish Independent has learned.

Newly qualified drivers will also have to display an 'N' for 'novice' plate for the two years after passing their test.

The measures are aimed at cutting the number of deaths on our roads.

They should also have 'W's for the wánkers on the road...

anyways you think this will have an effect on driving habits?

i hate to admit but after getting 4 penalty points over the summer i have slowed down abit on the roads

pickarooney

It's a step in the right direction but the fact that learners are allowed rack up points on a licence they don't have is just absurd.

Where To

Yay another law for people to completely ignore.

Dravokivich

Hmm... Can't see how the N-plate would be of much use. Its a right pain seeing statistics referencing age/range experience and that they were involved. I'll like to see statistics as such on who were responsible.

the_syco

I wonder is there any stats to tell us how many points people who caused fatalities on our roads have?

jhegarty

Newly qualified drivers will also have to display an 'N' for 'novice' plate for the two years after passing their test.

Well that's going to stop someone driving down a country road, doing 200kph at 2am.


Pitty they didn't think of it earlier.

dr.bollocko

This still works within an environment where the learners are the problem and not the tossers who've had a full licence for 20 to 60 years but can't navigate a roundabout in a non-titly fashion.

Every step which makes it potentially safer is welcomed however when it comes to road safety, if you see how people anywhere in Ireland behave in rush hour at a junction, you get the feeling you're pissing into the wind.

Irish Halo

dr.bollocko wrote: »

non-titly

Surely a candidate for word of the day

GhostInTheRuins

Nobody is going to keep the N plates up for two years though, are they? Just like loads of people take their L plates down until they're doing the test.

The penalty point thing I agree with. I know someone who is just leaning how to drive and she is absolutely lethal behind the wheel. There's no way she should be on the roads. She got six penalty points in one day last month, but not to worry, her mother (who no longer drives) went down to the garda station and got them transferred onto her license. That needs to be changed.

Super-Rush

If the NRA want to do something positive then they should make all those people who got their license without sitting a test take one.

The_B_Man

FFS, I'm learning now (half way through lessons) and I just know that my insurance will go up as long as I have this "N" plate!

CreepingDeath

davet82 wrote: »

They should also have 'W's for the wánkers on the road...

That's included in the "BMW" logo.

4zn76tysfajdxp

davet82 wrote: »

They should also have 'W's for the wánkers on the road...

They do, it's preceded by "BM" though.

4zn76tysfajdxp

CreepingDeath wrote: »

That's included in the "BMW" logo.

Ah, damn it.

BizzyC

I think it's a good idea.
Single out people who are most likely to get into/cause an accident so that they know they have to be more careful then others.

I dont mind that I'll need an "N" plate for a while when I get my license if it has a chance of cutting down on the number of road accidents that occur.

Procrastastudy

I drive pretty quickly, sometimes...

If I have the L-plate up it doesn't matter how fast I'm going someone, usually in an Audi, is always sitting on my arse or trying to overtake. I don't think N plates are a good idea.

Also has anyone else noticed that everyone with a 'Baby on Board' sticker drives like a loon?

Commence flaming for driving as a learner with no L plate up.

Lando Griffin

A few weeks back I got driving behind a L driver. She had nobody in the car with her.
First at a roundabout she went into the right lane with right indicator on then proceeded to drive straight on. Going 30kmph in an 80 she then jammed on the brakes about 5 car lengths from a left turn then indicated and snuck wildly into the bend. She reduced her speed to 25kmph and jammed brakes again before a right turn indicated right, swong left and the took the turn.
I am a patient driver with learners but when how is someone supposed to learn when nobody is tutoring them.
The N plate is s good idea because you may only have passed your test 1 day and driving on a Motorway for the first time.

BizzyC

The_B_Man wrote: »

FFS, I'm learning now (half way through lessons) and I just know that my insurance will go up as long as I have this "N" plate!

Your insurance will be up anyway.
If you dont have a history of being insured on a car the premium is higher....

humbert

davet82 wrote: »

They should also have 'W's for the wánkers on the road...

i hate to admit but after getting 4 penalty points over the summer i have slowed down abit on the roads

Jesus wept.

jhegarty

BizzyC wrote: »

I think it's a good idea.
Single out people who are most likely to get into/cause an accident so that they know they have to be more careful then others.

I dont mind that I'll need an "N" plate for a while when I get my license if it has a chance of cutting down on the number of road accidents that occur.

If it can magically reduce accidents everyone should need an "N" plate.

Procrastastudy

jhegarty wrote: »

If it can magically reduce accidents everyone should need an "N" plate.

What they should do is make everyone with points display the number of points on a sticker in the back window! They are the ones that need avoiding.

Dravokivich

Procrastastudy wrote: »

What they should do is make everyone with points display the number of points on a sticker in the back window! They are the ones that need avoiding.

Is it not the other way around? The people who crash / speed / drive wrecklessly in whatever manner. Is it not them who should be doing the avoiding in the first place?

I reckon someone who knows a TD has a lot of N stickers somewhere they can't shift.

JOBS FOR THE BOYS!

Lord TSC

I like this idea. I started driving a year ago and got my full license about 4 months ago.

Having the L plates up, for the most part, meant most people were patient enough and calm enough to let you make mistakes, were obliging enough to be careful around you and what have you. But I know, personally, the day I took down the L plate, I saw a change in the way drivers treated you on the road.

Passing the test didn't mean I was a perfect driver; it meant I drove well for about 40 minutes. I still make mistakes, stall the car, etc. Only now people don't expect that to happen. I'd be quite happy to have some sign in my car which lets people know "Hey, I know what I'm doing, but I'm still new-ish, so back the **** off".

BizzyC

jhegarty wrote: »

If it can magically reduce accidents everyone should need an "N" plate.

Yeah, the plate itself probably isn't all that important.

Maybe giving people a seperate license makes more sense?

ie Provisional -> New Driver -> Full License

Undercover Elephant

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Also has anyone else noticed that everyone with a 'Baby on Board' sticker drives like a loon?

Not so much as the ones with a "Jesus Is Lord" sticker.

JohnMarston

So learner drivers are expected to drive damn near perfect in their test to pass (still can depend on mood of tester) just so their certificate of competency is followed up with a figurative dunce cap for two years?

Potential-Monke

It's a start, but they also need to change the re licencing rules.

Once your licence is expired, you should have to resit the test. At the moment, i believe you have 3 years to apply for a new one without any test. That's just lunacy.

Also, the Gardai should have the power to make someone take the test. If they fail the test, licence is gone and they have to start from scratch. If they pass, fine/points.

keithclancy

Potential-Monke wrote: »

It's a start, but they also need to change the re licencing rules.

Once your licence is expired, you should have to resit the test. At the moment, i believe you have 3 years to apply for a new one without any test. That's just lunacy.

Also, the Gardai should have the power to make someone take the test. If they fail the test, licence is gone and they have to start from scratch. If they pass, fine/points.

Ah yeh ... that'd work, seeing as theres already a waiting list for driving tests :P

Potential-Monke

keithclancy wrote: »

Ah yeh ... that'd work, seeing as theres already a waiting list for driving tests :P

But it would be a money maker too. Increase the number of test centres and testers to manage the increase in tests required, more jobs, more people spending money, economy sorted! :P

Nichololas

BizzyC wrote: »

I think it's a good idea.
Single out people who are most likely to get into/cause an accident so that they know they have to be more careful then others.

I dont mind that I'll need an "N" plate for a while when I get my license if it has a chance of cutting down on the number of road accidents that occur.

There's more to it than inexperienced learner drivers not being great at driving (shocker). The amount of ire and anger directed at anybody with L plates on the roads is awful. It's not surprising that a lot of learner drivers remove the L plates because some pr*cks have this attitude that "oh there's a learner driver ahead of me, therefore he/she must be driving too slow/doing something wrong".

Road safety is obviously important, but there's an entire culture of bad driving that we're slowly improving (e.g., drink-driving is unacceptable to most of my friends and our age-group, but not for our parents generation), and saddling learner drivers with another ineffectual measure is not going to solve it. (Let's be honest, most people will not keep them on for that long).

irishgeo

its all a waste of time without enforcement.

why have 1 penalty point for people who dont display the N or L plates as required by the law.

Merch

GhostInTheRuins wrote: »

Nobody is going to keep the N plates up for two years though, are they? Just like loads of people take their L plates down until they're doing the test.

The penalty point thing I agree with. I know someone who is just leaning how to drive and she is absolutely lethal behind the wheel. There's no way she should be on the roads. She got six penalty points in one day last month, but not to worry, her mother (who no longer drives) went down to the garda station and got them transferred onto her license. That needs to be changed.

A good incentive would be to have to go back to square one if caught without it, licence revoked!
How could someone transfer points to their licence and if so why is it allowed, no offence I cant believe this, is that possible, surely not?

The_B_Man wrote: »

FFS, I'm learning now (half way through lessons) and I just know that my insurance will go up as long as I have this "N" plate!

It wont go up, it will be up already

Procrastastudy wrote: »

I drive pretty quickly, sometimes...

If I have the L-plate up it doesn't matter how fast I'm going someone, usually in an Audi, is always sitting on my arse or trying to overtake. I don't think N plates are a good idea.

Also has anyone else noticed that everyone with a 'Baby on Board' sticker drives like a loon?

Commence flaming for driving as a learner with no L plate up.

What car do you drive so I can avoid you
I give allowance to L drivers, you will always come across tools that drive up your arse, but maybe they are pissed, as it sounds like you are driving on your own, maybe you are making mistakes that are annoying and they are then annoyed as not only are you doing it wrong, but are unaware of this?

No, I havent noticed this, baby on board sticker tendency, I think if someone does something and you see a baby on board sticker you are making a connection, same with Audi etc. If someone was driving a focus (lots of them) you proably dont assume they are all bad drivers, just that you came across a tool.

JohnMarston wrote: »

So learner drivers are expected to drive damn near perfect in their test to pass (still can depend on mood of tester) just so their certificate of competency is followed up with a figurative dunce cap for two years?

Passing the test isnt the be all and end all, its the start really. Too many people think "ah passed the test, now relax, can drive how I please, phew" thats all over, well no it isn't, its just the start. As you seem to be starting out with that view, I think its not the best.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

It's a start, but they also need to change the re licencing rules.

Once your licence is expired, you should have to resit the test. At the moment, i believe you have 3 years to apply for a new one without any test. That's just lunacy.

Also, the Gardai should have the power to make someone take the test. If they fail the test, licence is gone and they have to start from scratch. If they pass, fine/points.

I thought it was ten years.

Merch

Nichololas wrote: »

There's more to it than inexperienced learner drivers not being great at driving (shocker). The amount of ire and anger directed at anybody with L plates on the roads is awful. It's not surprising that a lot of learner drivers remove the L plates because some pr*cks have this attitude that "oh there's a learner driver ahead of me, therefore he/she must be driving too slow/doing something wrong".

I dont believe it is directed at just L drivers, maybe you had an L plate up and thought it was all for you,

OR

Maybe like some people I have come across, could be nothing other than learners, had no plate up on their car, no one with them and couldn't manage lights/junctions/roundabouts, taking ages.
If a person like that has ire directed at them they deserve it, I wasnt all for the accompanied thing really, but if you're going to drive while learning and cant manage junctions/dont have a clue what you're at, wont put up an L plate then expect a bit of ire or at least stay off the roads at peak times, you're not meant to be there anyway and you're creating a hazard, (that has been my experience).

Procrastastudy

Merch wrote: »

What car do you drive so I can avoid you

I give allowance to L drivers, you will always come across tools that drive up your arse, but maybe they are pissed, as it sounds like you are driving on your own, maybe you are making mistakes that are annoying and they are then annoyed as not only are you doing it wrong, but are unaware of this?

As a learner I have to admit this is a possibility. That said I do know what I failed my test on and lights, lanes etc wasn't it. The point I was making, rather flippantly I admit, was that I think there is a tenancy to see L or N plates and just assume the person cant drive. (okay L plates they shouldn't be driving on their own I admit) The same people who make these assumptions, generally, themselves wouldn't be the best drivers so makes them more likely to do something stupid. e.g. overtake an N plate driver doing 48Kph in a 50 because they see the N plate and assume the person is driving too slowly.

Undercover Elephant

Merch wrote: »

How could someone transfer points to their licence

Illegally.

HeyThereDeliah

GhostInTheRuins wrote: »

She got six penalty points in one day last month, but not to worry, her mother (who no longer drives) went down to the garda station and got them transferred onto her license. That needs to be changed.

How did she do this?
Did she nominate the mother as the driver? You cannot just go to the Garda station and transfer points onto someone else's lic.

lost marbles

the africans wont like this .:)

Feisar

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I like this idea. I started driving a year ago and got my full license about 4 months ago.

Having the L plates up, for the most part, meant most people were patient enough and calm enough to let you make mistakes, were obliging enough to be careful around you and what have you. But I know, personally, the day I took down the L plate, I saw a change in the way drivers treated you on the road.

Passing the test didn't mean I was a perfect driver; it meant I drove well for about 40 minutes. I still make mistakes, stall the car, etc. Only now people don't expect that to happen. I'd be quite happy to have some sign in my car which lets people know "Hey, I know what I'm doing, but I'm still new-ish, so back the **** off".

I agree with the sentiment but we should all back the **** off from everyone and chill out.
For example I don't sit it straighter and pay more attention to my driving just because I see a silly Baby on Board sticker. I don't care if all the babies ever were on board I haven't got anything left in the care tank, we're maxing out at all times!

Feisar

JohnMarston wrote: »

So learner drivers are expected to drive damn near perfect in their test to pass (still can depend on mood of tester) just so their certificate of competency is followed up with a figurative dunce cap for two years?

I agree, one is either capable of driving or not.

antodeco

I think what would make more sense is this:

Provisional > Lessons > Intermediate Licence > Advanced Lessons > Full Licence.

Advanced lessons should be:
Skid handling
Brake failures
Tyre Blow Outs
Heavy Load handling

Merch

Procrastastudy wrote: »

As a learner I have to admit this is a possibility. That said I do know what I failed my test on and lights, lanes etc wasn't it. The point I was making, rather flippantly I admit, was that I think there is a tenancy to see L or N plates and just assume the person cant drive. (okay L plates they shouldn't be driving on their own I admit) The same people who make these assumptions, generally, themselves wouldn't be the best drivers so makes them more likely to do something stupid. e.g. overtake an N plate driver doing 48Kph in a 50 because they see the N plate and assume the person is driving too slowly.

:eek: At least you're honest i suppose. some people will see L or any future N plates as a nuisance, but those people may also see anyone as a nuisance. If someone is driving like they dont know what they are doing, then i think they should have the cop on to stay off the road when unaccompanied especially at peak times, thsat goes for you whomever you are "Mrs drop her kids to school around the corner but cant drive near me" I think she should walk, but then again Im sure she is oblivious to her errors and the delays they cause, I didnt even get impatient.

Undercover Elephant wrote: »

Illegally.

ok, but how?? for that to occur then someone else had to do something illegal, surely?

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

How did she do this?
Did she nominate the mother as the driver? You cannot just go to the Garda station and transfer points onto someone else's lic.

Surely even suggesting (to a garda) this should be illegal, it sounds like soliciting a garda to do something illegal, which is worse than the original offence.

Cuddlesworth

JohnMarston wrote: »

So learner drivers are expected to drive damn near perfect in their test to pass (still can depend on mood of tester) just so their certificate of competency is followed up with a figurative dunce cap for two years?

I've passed two driving tests first time, both times.

I passed my gardai bikesafe course with no criticism, one hour of riding with a member of the force beside me.

I passed my insurance assessment with top marks, four hours of training followed by a two hour exam(although the assessment is really based on the whole day).

I'm doing some more training to become ROSPA certified in the new year.

The current driving test is the most basic test possible and anybody who has passed holds a cert to say they have the most basic level of competency on the road. I hold no respect for people who have the attitude that their license is the last point in their driving lifetime to allow any criticism or learning.

The only reason that retesting across any age group is so vehemently resisted, is the majority of the driving population would currently fail that basic test if asked to repeat it. And that is a truly sickening thought.

Merch

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The current driving test is the most basic test possible and anybody who has passed holds a cert to say they have the most basic level of competency on the road. I hold no respect for people who have the attitude that their license is the last point in their driving lifetime to allow any criticism or learning.

The only reason that retesting across any age group is so vehemently resisted, is the majority of the driving population would currently EPICLY fail that basic test if asked to repeat it. And that is a truly sickening thought.

I think this is appropriate

HeyThereDeliah

Merch wrote: »

Surely even suggesting (to a garda) this should be illegal, it sounds like soliciting a garda to do something illegal, which is worse than the original offence.

It is and you can be prosecuted for it, it's not up to the Gardai in the first place, you get the fine and fill out the driver details, nothing to do with the Garda station.
That poster is talking nonsense.

Merch

lost marbles wrote: »

the africans wont like this .:)

Huh? why not?

antodeco wrote: »

I think what would make more sense is this:

Provisional > Lessons > Intermediate Licence > Advanced Lessons > Full Licence.

Advanced lessons should be:
Skid handling
Brake failures
Tyre Blow Outs
Heavy Load handling

I would like to do something like that, must look into it, available in Ireland? I wonder.

I think a bit of experience under the belt driving would go towards this though, so wouldnt recommend a learner to do it.

Where To

I used to think I was the best driver on the road. Now, the older I get, the more inexperienced I get.

Driving is like life. The day you stop learning is the day you turn off the road.

Procrastastudy

Merch wrote: »

Huh? why not?

Think about it for a while

Nichololas

Merch wrote: »

I dont believe it is directed at just L drivers, maybe you had an L plate up and thought it was all for you,

OR

Maybe like some people I have come across, could be nothing other than learners, had no plate up on their car, no one with them and couldn't manage lights/junctions/roundabouts, taking ages.
If a person like that has ire directed at them they deserve it, I wasnt all for the accompanied thing really, but if you're going to drive while learning and cant manage junctions/dont have a clue what you're at, wont put up an L plate then expect a bit of ire or at least stay off the roads at peak times, you're not meant to be there anyway and you're creating a hazard, (that has been my experience).

Having L plates on doesn't necessarily mean you're a bad driver, much like not having one doesn't actually mean you're a good one (or not a learner, as it is), but it does colour other driver's perception of you and a lot of people seem to get more irritated at L plates' driver error than the same situation without L plates.

antodeco wrote: »

I think what would make more sense is this:

Provisional > Lessons > Intermediate Licence > Advanced Lessons > Full Licence.

Or;
Lessons > Provisional > Advanced Lessons > Full Licence

With lessons being in a driving centre of some kind.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

All drivers should be re-tested at least every five years. Anyone opposed to that is probably a sh*t driver who knows deep down all their dangerous bad habits will be exposed.

Pherekydes

Does anyone else think they should have checked the meaning of 'novice' before using that appelation?

oppenheimer1

JohnMarston wrote: »

So learner drivers are expected to drive damn near perfect in their test to pass (still can depend on mood of tester) just so their certificate of competency is followed up with a figurative dunce cap for two years?

When someone graduates from college they're not expected to be a master of it all. There are some things which can only be gained through the experience of driving for a long time.