At it again- more traveller fighting

Lady Chatterton

The Scrote, there is a very good discussion going on here and the thread will remain open as along as people are civil and their comments are balanced.

We (the Clare Mods) have repeatedly asked for posters support with this. As there are two warnings already on this thread and you've chosen to ignore them, I've no choice but to you give you some time off.

Lady Chatterton

"Three in court over longstanding Ennis Feud" - Clare FM

16 October, 2012 - 14:21

Three people have been remanded in custody in connection with a number of incidents involving feuding traveller families in the town of Ennis.

Two men and a teenager where brought before Kilrush district court in connection with a number of incidents arising out of an ongoing feud between the McDonagh and Doherty families - including Sunday night's car ramming at the Maid of Erin Roundabout

Security was high outside the courthouse in Kilrush court as armed members of the Garda Regional Response unit watched on.

http://clare.fm/news/three-court-over-longstanding-ennis-feud

kstand

does anyone know what started the feud off in the first place?
Surely its got so bad that someone from some side can come in and mediate and get them to settle their differences?

periodictable

kstand wrote: »

does anyone know what started the feud off in the first place?
Surely its got so bad that someone from some side can come in and mediate and get them to settle their differences?

Why should you ,me or anyone else pay to mediate between a group of fighting adults? Is there something special about Travellers that we treat them with kid gloves? Many of these guys are nothing but thugs, and the only thing a thug understands is force, so I'd prefer to see the full force of the law brought to bear on them and hopefully the sentence will reflect the seriousness the rest of us appear to feel this behaviour merits.
Pavee Point of course acting the ostrich on this.

CptSternn

kstand wrote: »

does anyone know what started the feud off in the first place?
Surely its got so bad that someone from some side can come in and mediate and get them to settle their differences?

It's been ongoing for years. A couple years ago when the grenade was thrown in the terraced housing and they hacked each other to bits in front of the National School they brought in one of the men who negotiated the Good Friday Agreement, at a cost of €60,000 to us, the tax payers. They did this in lieu of giving them any jail time or legal punishments.

Lot of good that did, eh?

Lady Chatterton

CptSternn wrote: »

It's been ongoing for years. A couple years ago when the grenade was thrown in the terraced housing and they hacked each other to bits in front of the National School they brought in one of the men who negotiated the Good Friday Agreement, at a cost of €60,000 to us, the tax payers. They did this in lieu of giving them any jail time or legal punishments.

Lot of good that did, eh?

Cpt Sternn, Where did you get the €60,000 figure from? Would you have a link by any chance?

kstand

Well, I'd throw the book at them myself and give them a few years hard labour - but thats not an option I'm afraid.
Legislation in Ireland will screw you if you dont tax your car or cant pay your mortgage. But years of sympathisers and human rights groups have created this situation whereby these people are a law unto themselves now. There is no short term solution. Until legislation exists to come down like a sledge-hammer on these individuals, this will continue and get worse.

angelfire9

MrsD007 wrote: »

Cpt Sternn, Where did you get the €60,000 figure from? Would you have a link by any chance?

I will find a link when I get back to the house MrsD but there was crazy money spent on mediation a few years ago

THESE are NOT the same families as was involved in that mediation which is important to note I think

Lady Chatterton

I've found two links that refer to the Good Friday mediator. It is claimed that back in 2010 Ennis Town Council spent €4,000 per month on mediation services over a 18 month period. However, the acting town clerk at the time said

“I am not in position to comment on how much this service costs the council. The cost would depend on specific mediation and standard professional fees would apply. It is not a regular monthly service so it would be difficult to put a monthly sum on it”.

"Council engages Good Friday mediator in Traveller feud"

A MEDIATOR who was involved directly with the Good Friday Agreement negotiations in Northern Ireland has been engaged by Ennis Town Council to deal with conflict issues between tenants in its housing estates.
The council is understood to be spending over €4,000 a month on the mediation service that has, among other things, been dealing with the ongoing Traveller feud in Ennis.

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3196:council-engages-good-friday-mediator-in-traveller-feud&catid=74:general&Itemid=60

http://pavee.ie/mediamonitor/?p=5215

maiden

We are not just talking about the same families, yes the church 'incident' and the 'maid of erin 'incident were the same families but the Holy Family and the Courthouse (which are connected) are another two different families.

Church and MOE = families a and b

Holy Family and Courthouse = families c and d

There is also another feud with a matchete to the arm, this hasnt happened in the town yet just in estates = families e and f

ITS TIME THE LOCAL JUDGE TOOK A STAND AND STAND UP FOR JUSTICE!! SUSPENDED SENTENCES MY EYE!

WHERE WOULD I BE IF I TOOK A HATCHET TO MY NEIGHBOUR WHO LOOKED AT ME FUNNY???

Balagan

Shapey Fiend wrote: »

You'd think they'd move one of these families. It's going to cost a fortune to police the situation and it's going to go from bad to worse even with multiple arrests.

At least now they've done something that directly impacted Gardai we might see some proper sentences carried out. Of course you'd think the incidents in and around primary schools were serious enough but nothing seems to have come of that.

Fresh prosecution commenced last Wednesday in relation to the primary school incident.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/new-charges-for-man-accused-of-wielding-slashhook-3256355.html

maiden

I would like to point out that the man up in court for the Holy Family incident is not a traveller but is married to a member of a traveller family

jonon9

What we need is a proper armed unit something like 'BOA' in Poland. They give you a warning to drop the weapon and if not you will be taken out no questions asked. None of these s***mbags will see jail time.

jonon9

maiden wrote: »

We are not just talking about the same families, yes the church 'incident' and the 'maid of erin 'incident were the same families but the Holy Family and the Courthouse (which are connected) are another two different families.

Church and MOE = families a and b

Holy Family and Courthouse = families c and d

There is also another feud with a matchete to the arm, this hasnt happened in the town yet just in estates = families e and f

ITS TIME THE LOCAL JUDGE TOOK A STAND AND STAND UP FOR JUSTICE!! SUSPENDED SENTENCES MY EYE!

WHERE WOULD I BE IF I TOOK A HATCHET TO MY NEIGHBOUR WHO LOOKED AT ME FUNNY???

What this country needs is a new prison to lock up the disease

Lady Chatterton

jonon9 wrote: »

What this country needs is a new prison to lock up the disease

Jonon9 - You've earned yourself a week off from this forum.

Lets have calm and constructive debate please

Kilnababe

1. Impound Vehicles that are not taxed, insured or NCT'd.
2. Prosecute for carrying children in vehicles not appropriate.
3. Withold all social welfare from any person convicted of anti social behaviour.

If there is still trouble call <Mod Snip>

Lady Chatterton

PLEASE NOTE - we are no longer permitted to discuss the specifics of recent incidents which are currently before the courts.

It is absolutely imperative that we do not prejudice any current or future court proceedings.

Any further discussions have to be of a general nature otherwise the thread will be locked.

angelfire9

Thats fair enough Mrs D


As Maiden pointed out there are 2 separate feuds ongoing at the moment

The one at the Holy Family which continued in the court house when the initial proceedings were brought is due soon for full hearing which will be interesting

The one at the wedding which continued at the maid of erin is due back in court today where additional charges are to be brought against 2 females involved in Sunday's incident
The 2 males and the juvenile that appeared in court yesterday will appear again today and I would expect the men & the juvenile to be remanded the women will most likely be bailed

The book of evidence in the first feud has been prepared & given to the person's involved and a full hearing & judgement on that matter will be forthcoming during the next few weeks

The book of evidence from the wedding & the Maid of Erin will most likely not be ready for service for 8 weeks minimum so the parties in court today may request bail based on the lead time for the expected full hearing of the case

Personally I am looking forward to hearing how the First case is handled by the judge as it will be Judge Durkin's first dealing with these matters
with the retirement of Judge Mangan we have a chance to see a new judge deal with these matters effectively

A few weeks will tell alot....

Balagan

Interesting article in most recent edition of Village magazine on Traveller issues in Co. Clare.

Traveller prejudice 2012
http://www.villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2012/09/traveller-prejudice-2012/

The traveller advocate interviewed (who is backed by http://www.socialentrepreneurs.ie/ ) is quoted as saying that "the violence among Travellers is often an expression of frustration that results from the powerlessness of their position, and the erasing of their identify by both assimilation and dispersal policies.

“It feeds into the issue of horizontal violence between people of that minority group because they cannot find avenues to address the wrongs done to them by people in authority”.

The late Traveller lady and her daughter who are the main subjects of the beginning of the article certainly had, and the daughter is still having, a very difficult life and care should be taken that people do not get neglected through falling between administrative stools.

But the interviewer fails to address, in any way, the question of why the Travellers were moved on from that area outside Ennis. There are indeed laws which prevent such encampments and which led the Co Council, at significant expense, to have the encampment moved, but why, in the interests of even minimally balanced reporting, did the interviewer not speak to the locals about the effect the encampment had on them?

It would have been good if he had probed into what the advocate thinks would satisfy the Travellers. Some do not want to live in the group housing provided at immense cost. Some who do live in that housing feud and fight and some houses have been burned down. Yet more are housed in Council estates and it is a minefield to house some as many don't want to be housed close to other Travellers with whom they might not be getting on and, while in the Council estates, some maintain their traditional way of life which is not that of the settled people they live among.

And then there is the related elephant in the room which Village magazine dodged entirely - the amount of private housing estates in Clare and elsewhere which are now in a bad way because some of the Travellers now renting in them, are involved in anti-social behaviour to the great distress of their neighbours and leaving houses in their immediate vicinity both unrentable and unsaleable. That said, I am well aware that there are many settled Travellers who have no involvement whatsoever in present feuds and also aware that Travellers are far from solely responsible for anti social behaviour. But the increasing lawlessness of some Travellers and the affect that is having on the whole community needs to be acknowledged fully and not minimized by Traveller advocates. There are some ex-advocates for the Travellers whom Village magazine might do well to seek out for an interview, although, of course, it would have to be anonymous.

periodictable

Fair point made, but this bit ""the violence among Travellers is often an expression of frustration that results from the powerlessness of their position, and the erasing of their identify by both assimilation and dispersal policies.

“It feeds into the issue of horizontal violence between people of that minority group because they cannot find avenues to address the wrongs done to them by people in authority”. is a psychobabble nonsense favoured by so called social "scientists".
Occasionally I feel powerless about the behaviour of senior civil servants and politicians, and I would like to shoot them, but because I live in a society with its rules and expectations, I don't act upon these instincts. To do so would be to liveby the law of the jungle, and then what's the point of society?

kstand

I know of a lot of people who bought houses in newly built estates during better times - and paid top money for where they bought. Worked hard to pay for their houses and now they are in negative equity. I have since heard countless cases of councils moving families into houses on these estates and the value of those houses dropping yet further due to the problems these families bring with them.
1. What right does anyone on social housing have to live on estates where the the people living there have worked hard for and paid for their houses?
2. Who in government decides that it is acceptable to move such families into these estates?
In my opinion, councils should build or be responsible for building and maintaining social housing estates where only those who are unable to afford their own homes and rely on government aid should be housed. Why should anyone be given a house by the council/government and end up next door to someone who has worked hard for and paid for their house. In my opinion, there is no counter-argument here, only the ramblings of liberal-left wing morons.

Lady Chatterton

Kstand, many landlords offer their properties to the HSE and Council to be used for social housing.

There are two big advantages to the landlord -

1. Guaranteed income and no hassle collecting payment.
2. Any damage done to the properties is the responsibility of the HSE or the Council so the landlord is exposed to very little risk.

kstand

This should be looked into immediately MrsD007 - and banned.
Let the government / councils provide social housing for those who need it and not have the sorry situation we now find with problem familes (I'm not for one minute suggesting they all are) ending up in estates with those who have worked hard for what they bought.
If this is not tackled, its long term implications could be far more damaging.

Lady Chatterton

Kstand, Councils are moving away from building housing estates as there are lots of idle properties out there. It makes more sense (financially and for the purpose of social integration) for the council to acquire these properties under a long term lease.

Here is a couple of links to the Social Leasing Scheme/Housing Agency.

http://www.clarecoco.ie/housing/social-leasing/
http://www.housing.ie/leasing

kstand

Craziness Mrsd007 and will elad to far more serious social problems in the long run.
I can understand the financial implications - but there needs to be something in place where problem families are identified and isolated. I know that a lot of families in this situation are decent people but by the same token those who routinely cause problems need to be isolated. That wouldnt cost the government an arm and a leg.

finbarrk

Great to see this discussion being allowed. But I can't understand why my account of the incident in the A&E in the hospital the other day was locked?
Mrs D?

Lady Chatterton

Finbarrk, "the Cathedral thread" was locked on Saturday night because you used derogatory language.

I had intended re-opening the thread but another thread was started on Sunday. The Clare moderators agreed that the discussion was an important one and should be allowed continue as long as posters agreed to be civil and refrained from using inflammatory language.

maiden

The estate i live in has a dilemma:

We have over 130 houses, we reckon 80 are rented out

Of those 80 we reckon 65 are receiving rent allowance from the HSE,

65 houses rec RA but only 11 of these houses are registered with the PRTB

So can anyone tell me why the HSE are paying rent cheques to 54 landlords every month, who are not registered anywhere and are breaking the law. And have no accountability when their tenants destroy everything in sight

We have brought this to the attention of every councillor in town and they are not interested.

54 houses approx in one estate, how many in Ennis, Clare, the whole country??

Stop the HSE paying out to non compliant landlords and two things will happen, one the landlords will start paying their tax (more revenue) and the HSE will save millions a year!

The buck has to stop somewhere and imo it should be at the door of the HSE

golfball37

Thats just another cog in the wheel maiden that destroyed this country. Vested interests will never be questioned.

Black Smoke

MrsD007 wrote: »

Kstand, many landlords offer their properties to the HSE and Council to be used for social housing.

There are two big advantages to the landlord -

1. Guaranteed income and no hassle collecting payment.
2. Any damage done to the properties is the responsibility of the HSE or the Council so the landlord is exposed to very little risk.

No council official, has the moral authority, to assign a traveller family, to any house, in any estate, in any town, in any county, in the country, unless and until, the same official, has already, moved two traveller families, to be his or her, immediate neighbours, in his or her own house:cool:
Lead by example:D