Who do you consider to be Irish ?

anishboi

I am just posting this with the sole purpose of creating a debate.

I want to know who you guys consider to be Irish.

Many people I know accept people who aren't of Irish ancestry, but are born and raised in Ireland, as Irish. Others choose not to.

I am an Irish person of Indian ancestry; as in both my parents are Indian immigrants, so I don't have any proper Irish blood heritage.

But I was born in this country, lived here all of my life, I feel Irish, apparently speak with a strong Sligo accent (according to many people who I speak to) and I got an A2 in Irish in the Leaving Cert.

Therefore I self-identify as Irish and, to be honest, I have never really called myself Indian.

What are your thoughts ? On what grounds do you classify an Irish person ?

Cheers

RGM

Well, nationality and race are two different things, so "being Irish" has more than one meaning.

IrishAm

You are legally an Irish citizen. Although, if you were born in modern times, you may not be. Citizenship law changes. See the referendum of 2003.

You are culturally Irish. End of. Both your parents are Indian, ergo, ethnically you are Indian. Nowt wrong with that.

You are not ethically Irish. You dont have one Irish parent. This will become an issue in the future.

Irish peeps are people whom have at least grandparent around at the foundation of our state. Also, according to a study conducted in 2001, 90 per cent of Irish people had direct ancestry to the original inhabitants of these islands.

clear thinking

Most of these back datings are meaningless, once you go back about 20 generations practically everyone in the europe is related and there is inbreeding in everyones line.

We've had waves of picts, celts, vikings, normans, english, scots etc. etc so there is no such thing really and a typical Irish person. More recently we've acquired a few hundred thousand polish immigrants, its in flux

Some pre-Norman surnamed people may claim they are genuine irish but of course chances are there's some viking and pict blood in there, plus british blood from the slaves we took raiding Britain post Roman withdrawal. Added to that there was no hard concept of an irish nation prior to the rise of militant nationalism post the american and french revolutions

Basically if you are any or all of the following: in it for the craic, were born here, like to wear green, have a problem with success stories but like to jump a bandwagon, then you're irish.

IrishAm

90 per cent of the Irish people living in Ireland in 2001 are relatives of the peeps whom originally inhabited this island. Thats a fact.

RGM

IrishAm wrote: »

90 per cent of the Irish people living in Ireland in 2001 are relatives of the peeps whom originally inhabited this island. Thats a fact.

Yeah, but there are many more people outside Ireland who can claim that than people who were born there, so how much does it matter really? I mean, there are something like 40 million Americans who claim Irish descent. And I can tell you most of them are about as "Irish" as the queen.

I understand the original question, but it seems kind of a silly thing to debate. I think being classified as "Irish" is something people can only decide for themselves.

IrishAm

RGM wrote: »

Yeah, but there are many more people outside Ireland who can claim that than people who were born there, so how much does it matter really? I mean, there are something like 40 million Americans who claim Irish descent. And I can tell you most of them are about as "Irish" as the queen.

I understand the original question, but it seems kind of a silly thing to debate. I think being classified as "Irish" is something people can only decide for themselves.

I can debate this with you. 90 per cent of Irish peeps are indigenous to this great nation.

Ireland for the Irish

IrishAm

Its free to debate. Our Irish people are free to debate thus.

Irish are disabled from out talk. Real talk. Proper chat proves that real talk makes us 100 per cent, free.

Irish peeps are 100 per cent real Irish. Indigenous Irish

real talk.

kneemos

An A2 In leaving cert Irish is the only qualification you need to be Irish op.

ejmaztec

IrishAm wrote: »

Its free to debate. Our Irish people are free to debate thus.

Irish are disabled from out talk. Real talk. Proper chat proves that real talk makes us 100 per cent, free.

Irish peeps are 100 per cent real Irish. Indigenous Irish

real talk.

gbee

In your case, and each case is a little different, you seem to be making the effort to simulate and not dictate.

As you know, merely being born in Ireland does not automatically grant Irish citizenship, it did at one time but not anymore.

I think your language and attitude would make you Irish, and you sound fine to me.

kneemos

gbee wrote: »

In your case, and each case is a little different, you seem to be making the effort to simulate and not dictate.

As you know, merely being born in Ireland does not automatically grant Irish citizenship, it did at one time but not anymore.

I think your language and attitude would make you Irish, and you sound fine to me.

You've been granted approval op.

anishboi

For those of you who want to know, I am a full Irish citizen. I don't know what the laws regarding citizenship are, and how they've changed, but frankly I don't really mind because I'm a citizen and am proud to be.

anishboi

IrishAm wrote: »

I can debate this with you. 90 per cent of Irish peeps are indigenous to this great nation.

Ireland for the Irish

Ireland for the Irish. Apart from skin colour and heritage, I am Irish as you are. Being a citizen of this country, I am entitled to all of the same rights as you are. You can't get rid of me and people like me, and you never will.

And for anyone who thinks the same way as him, it might make you angry but this country is exactly as mine as it is yours....hahahah

Judgement Day

anishboi - if you're genuine, you're not doing your cause much good - what's with the deliberate provocation in your posts and anyway isn't this thread more suited to AH or Rant & Raving.

anishboi

Judgement Day wrote: »

anishboi - if you're genuine, you're not doing your cause much good - what's with the deliberate provocation in your posts and anyway isn't this thread more suited to AH or Rant & Raving.

I don't need to do my case good - I know I'm right...;)

And anyway I just felt the need to say that hahaa:D

gbee

anishboi wrote: »

You can't get rid of me and people like me, and you never will.

OK, so you chip is showing and you are laying down the 'law' ~ I take back my previous post.

kneemos

gbee wrote: »

OK, so you chip is showing and you are laying down the 'law' ~ I take back my previous post.

Having a chip on his shoulder makes him more Irish surely?

clear thinking

IrishAm wrote: »

90 per cent of the Irish people living in Ireland in 2001 are relatives of the peeps whom originally inhabited this island. Thats a fact.

How do you define originally? How do you apply this to deciding if someone is irish or not?

anishboi

I didn't really mean to be a smart ass before by 'laying down the law', but what the person above me has said is quite right. How can you define being Irish 'originally' as being Irish ? There are people in America, Australia, Canada, even parts of South America that have Irish ancestry, and therefore are Irish 'originally' but don't have a clue about Irish culture. I have been living in this country from the time I was born, which means regardless of what happened before my birth, I am originally Irish. Originally since my birth, I cannot control what happened before that.

Just saying

IrishAm

anishboi wrote: »

Ireland for the Irish. Apart from skin colour and heritage, I am Irish as you are. Being a citizen of this country, I am entitled to all of the same rights as you are. You can't get rid of me and people like me, and you never will.

And for anyone who thinks the same way as him, it might make you angry but this country is exactly as mine as it is yours....hahahah

You are Indian, breh.

You are as Irish as I am Indian.

In 2001, a study was conducted and it concluded that ninety per cent of Irish people were direct ancestors from original inhabitants of these islands.

Deal with it.

Citizenship means the square root of foooook all. I have American citizenship. Does that make me indigenous to America?

Hell, no.

Thats the red mans land.

kneemos

If you go through the school system,learn Irish,history and how to swing a hurl then your as Irish as the next guy(more than some)I don't think not having Irish ancestry makes you less Irish.Being part of your parents culture and speaking thier language just makes you a more cultured Irishman.

gbee

kneemos wrote: »

If you go through the school system,learn Irish,history and how to swing a hurl

I would bring your attention to one family of GAA sports players in the Northside of Cork

kneemos

gbee wrote: »

I would bring your attention to one family of GAA sports players in the Northside of Cork

No idea.Do tell.

Judgement Day

kneemos wrote: »

If you go through the school system,learn Irish,history and how to swing a hurl then your as Irish as the next guy(more than some)I don't think not having Irish ancestry makes you less Irish.Being part of your parents culture and speaking thier language just makes you a more cultured Irishman.

What about if you went through the school system here, only learnt Irish for three years at secondary school and avoided sitting it in the LC, played cricket, rugby and hockey exclusively, never watched or participated in a GAA game? I do drink Guinness though!

kneemos

Judgement Day wrote: »

What about if you went through the school system here, only learnt Irish for three years at secondary school and avoided sitting it in the LC, played cricket, rugby and hockey exclusively, never watched or participated in a GAA game? I do drink Guinness though!

I didn't sit the Irish exam or play GAA either,but as far as the op is concerned you couldn'call him anything else only Irish,as for "blow in's" it's hard to know at what point someone becomes Irish.

ejmaztec

IrishAm wrote: »

You are Indian, breh.

You are as Irish as I am Indian.

In 2001, a study was conducted and it concluded that ninety per cent of Irish people were direct ancestors from original inhabitants of these islands.

Deal with it.

Citizenship means the square root of foooook all. I have American citizenship. Does that make me indigenous to America?

Hell, no.

Thats the red mans land.

You seemed to have ignored an important part of the bold bit of your abrasive post.

It means that out of 100% of Irish people, 90% were direct ancestors of the original inhabitants, which means that 10% of Irish people in the survey weren't direct ancestors of the original inhabitants.

You will note that those comprising both the 10% and 90% were still referred to as Irish.

As far as I'm concerned, the OP is Irish.

mitosis

Anyone who is born in Ireland.

Born in USA of parents whose great great grandparents were Irish is not Irish. Nor is being born in Belgium of Irish parents.

Irish are born in Ireland, Belgians in Belgium. And so forth.

You can be an Irish citizen if born in Australia of Irish parents, but you are not Irish

joolsveer

IrishAm wrote: »

..................

In 2001, a study was conducted and it concluded that ninety per cent of Irish people were direct ancestors from original inhabitants of these islands.

..........................

Do you have a link for this survey?

Mars Bar

The O.P is Irish in my opinion.

mitosis wrote: »

Anyone who is born in Ireland.

Born in USA of parents whose great great grandparents were Irish is not Irish. Nor is being born in Belgium of Irish parents.

Irish are born in Ireland, Belgians in Belgium. And so forth.

You can be an Irish citizen if born in Australia of Irish parents, but you are not Irish

I was born in England to Irish parents. I have an Irish passport and I've lived in Ireland since I was two. Would you consider me to be English or Irish?

I consider myself Irish. Apart from my birth certificate, nothing indicates anything English about me.

Kwack

Technically we are all immigrants.... Seriously though anyone born on this island is Irish whatever their skin colour!

Esel

Iri Sham just wants be Irisher than OP. Failing at that....

ejmaztec

Mars Bar wrote: »

The O.P is Irish in my opinion.



I was born in England to Irish parents. I have an Irish passport and I've lived in Ireland since I was two. Would you consider me to be English or Irish?

I consider myself Irish. Apart from my birth certificate, nothing indicates anything English about me.

Me too.

I would have been born here had an Irish government ever made the effort in real job creation instead of taking the easy way out and promoting mass-emigration (like they're continuing to do even now).

Craven99

joolsveer wrote: »

Do you have a link for this survey?

I'd be very interested to see this survey as well.

dubhthach

Given that Ireland was uninhabited until 10k years ago you could say we are all descended form immigrants of one form or another. Of course 70% of Irishmen are descended from one man who probably lived on the continent during the Bronze age (1700-2000BC).

As for OP he sounds pretty Irish to me, the important thing is he himself identifies as Irish. In his case he's just of Indian extraction, just as someone bearing surname Fitzgearld is Irish of say French (Norman) extraction.

As for people born abroad of Irish parents/grandparents. In my opinion they are ethnically Irish. You can't tell me that someone born in the US with four Irish grandparents isn't Irish but his/her 1st cousin born in Dublin is Irish. I do think there is a trend in this country to ignore those born abroad to Irish emigrants and to claim "oh they aren't Irish they are x" (nationality of country of birth) -- which is wrong if you ask me, especially when said people often identify strongly as been Irish. I do wonder if it's part of a larger "mental block" by which we disassociate with those who emigrate as in sense it's assumed that emigration implies a failure of society etc.

mitosis

Mars Bar wrote: »

The O.P is Irish in my opinion.



I was born in England to Irish parents. I have an Irish passport and I've lived in Ireland since I was two. Would you consider me to be English or Irish?

I consider myself Irish. Apart from my birth certificate, nothing indicates anything English about me.

The OP is Irish, you are not.

dubhthach

mitosis wrote: »

The OP is Irish, you are not.

That makes absolutely no sense.

pedroeibar1

I wonder where the Irish soccer team would be if some of the above definitions were enforced.

ejmaztec

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I wonder where the Irish soccer team would be if some of the above definitions were enforced.

They'd still be on the first plane home.:(

gbee

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I wonder where the Irish soccer team would be if some of the above definitions were enforced.

Couldn't be any worse tbh! Boom boom!!!

TheCoolWay

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I wonder where the Irish soccer team would be if some of the above definitions were enforced.

San Marino!

anishboi

IrishAm wrote: »

You are Indian, breh.

You are as Irish as I am Indian.

In 2001, a study was conducted and it concluded that ninety per cent of Irish people were direct ancestors from original inhabitants of these islands.

Deal with it.

Citizenship means the square root of foooook all. I have American citizenship. Does that make me indigenous to America?

Hell, no.

Thats the red mans land.

See again, the mistake you're making is that you're categorizing only people of Irish ancestry as Irish. Let me ask you this. Obama has Irish ancestry. As far as I know, he has no native American ancestry, so is he Irish or American ??

As someone mentioned before, this is an island, and was therefore uninhabited up until 10k years ago. Which means that if you go way back, you are most likely to be originally French or Norman ancestry, or maybe British, I don't know. But the point is unlike countries like France, there are no strictly indigenous/original people from Ireland. The only thing making you more Irish than me is that your family has been here thousands of years, where as mine has only been two decades. But in 8000 years from now, my descendants will be exactly as Irish as you.

Sorry man

Maudi

anishboi wrote: »

IrishAm wrote: »

You are Indian, breh.

You are as Irish as I am Indian.

In 2001, a study was conducted and it concluded that ninety per cent of Irish people were direct ancestors from original inhabitants of these islands.

Deal with it.

Citizenship means the square root of foooook all. I have American citizenship. Does that make me indigenous to America?

Hell, no.

Thats the red mans land.

See again, the mistake you're making is that you're categorizing only people of Irish ancestry as Irish. Let me ask you this. Obama has Irish ancestry. As far as I know, he has no native American ancestry, so is he Irish or American ??

As someone mentioned before, this is an island, and was therefore uninhabited up until 10k years ago. Which means that if you go way back, you are most likely to be originally French or Norman ancestry, or maybe British, I don't know. But the point is unlike countries like France, there are no strictly indigenous/original people from Ireland. The only thing making you more Irish than me is that your family has been here thousands of years, where as mine has only been two decades. But in 8000 years from now, my descendants will be exactly as Irish as you.

Sorry man

silly .of course your not irish..your indian just like your folks...if my missus went to india to work or whatever and had my child..would it be indian?no.it would just happen to have been irish child born in india...embrace your indian culture enjoy it ..they are wonderful race..as we are..

slowburner

I miss Marchdub.

kneemos

Maudi wrote: »

silly .of course your not irish..your indian just like your folks...if my missus went to india to work or whatever and had my child..would it be indian?no.it would just happen to have been irish child born in india...embrace your indian culture enjoy it ..they are wonderful race..as we are..

If the child is born, goes to school,speaks the language,absorbs the culture,plays the sport,has learnt the history,watches the movies..etc..etc how on earth would the child be Irish?

ejmaztec

Maudi wrote: »

silly .of course your not irish..your indian just like your folks...if my missus went to india to work or whatever and had my child..would it be indian?no.it would just happen to have been irish child born in india...embrace your indian culture enjoy it ..they are wonderful race..as we are..

The first bold bit is more than "silly", and as for the second bold bit, I've never seen anything so patronising.

mitosis

dubhthach wrote: »

That makes absolutely no sense.

I'll explain. The OP is born in Ireland, therefore Irish. Mars Bar in born in England, therefore English.

mitosis

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I wonder where the Irish soccer team would be if some of the above definitions were enforced.

That's another thing entirely. To qualify to play for a country you do not have to be from that country. Other countries have naturalised citizens too. It doesn't mean they are Italian, or whatever. Take Comoranesi, or Amauri, and Argentine and Brazilian respectively. They are not Italian, but qualify according to an ad hoc set of rules set by a football association.

Maudi

kneemos wrote: »

Maudi wrote: »

silly .of course your not irish..your indian just like your folks...if my missus went to india to work or whatever and had my child..would it be indian?no.it would just happen to have been irish child born in india...embrace your indian culture enjoy it ..they are wonderful race..as we are..

If the child is born, goes to school,speaks the language,absorbs the culture,plays the sport,has learnt the history,watches the movies..etc..etc how on earth would the child be Irish?

im not quite sure what your trying to say ..

dubhthach

mitosis wrote: »

I'll explain. The OP is born in Ireland, therefore Irish. Mars Bar in born in England, therefore English.

Mars Bar has two Irish parents and moved to Ireland when he was two and carries an Irish passport. The fact alone that both his parents are Irish makes him both ethnically Irish as well as legally Irish (under citizenship laws) which would explain why he has an Irish passport. Unless I'm wrong other then the fact he was born a couple hundred miles east of us he doesn't have any English ancestry.

kneemos

Maudi wrote: »

im not quite sure what your trying to say ..

Stop trolling.