Gardi to tackle cycle menaces

SerialComplaint

Davyhal wrote: »

Please say this is being said ironically?

If not, and you actually think that it would be OK for cyclists to do this, why can't motorists do it? With the same logic, you could say what's the point in a motorist being parked at a red light wasting time and petrol when they could just judge themselves that there is nobody coming on the opposing route. Sure, why not throw in arguments like it would be better for the environment too due to lower emissions... There are flaws in every system, but it's the best we have. Abide by them. Better safe than sorry.

No irony at all. Paris have recently passed a law to allow cyclists to break a red light when turning left. It avoid having a group of cyclists building up at a junction - great idea.

doolox wrote: »

.....you have a number plate and hence an identity. Ownership of a car implies that you have money which can be taken off you in terms of fines.

The government should seriously look at registering bikes and putting tags on them, could be chips like they do on pets now. This will enable cops to readily identify bikers and treat them the same way as other road users.

Ah yes, because that registration/insurance system works so well in preventing misbehaviours by motorists. We NEVER see anyone on their phone texting or surfing when driving. We NEVER see anyone breaking the speed limit. We NEVER see anyone turning without indicating.

Oh, hold on a minute...

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

• http://www.metro.co.uk/news/719063-cyclist-is-jailed-for-killing-by-1861-law
• http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/san_francisco&id=8700349
• http://dcist.com/2012/06/woman_dies_after_being_hit_by_cycli.php

I'm sure there are others

Maggie - We're talking about traffic laws in Ireland, not Dorset, San Francisco, or Washiington. How many people have been killed by cyclists in Ireland?

Capt'n Midnight

smash wrote: »

They target drivers 24/7...

The RSA free speed survey proves that the speed limit is generally ignored by drivers. Anyone got stats on the 30Km zones in the city centre ?

6% of all drivers are uninsured Ireland’s 2 million insured drivers are therefore paying an extra €30 per year on their premiums.



Yes they should nail cyclists who go through a red light and cross the path of other traffic. There are a few who give the majority a bad name. But to suggest that traffic enforcement is anything other than random is ridiculous. Anyone got estimates on the number of cars on the M50 that are missing Tax / NCT / Insurance / L - plates ? A simple database cross reference could easily weed out a lot of people if they were serious about enforcement. ( L - drivers would be where a car is registered to someone who doesn't have a full license, then it's a check against the toll camera photos )

reprazant

Kurz wrote: »

With an engine capable of keeping up with traffic, indicators, lights, mirrors and a licensed driver with tax/insurance and proper safety gear. No, bicycles and motorbikes aren't the same.

Oh ok. How slow does a bike have to be for it to be considered a toy and for you to sneer at it and deem it unfit to join you on the road? A moped? An electric bike?

What is you opinion on horses?

allibastor

its easy to say that bikes should not go on paths and so on, or through red lights, but sometimes its not safe to do anything else. Bike lanes start and stop all over the place, so many times you end up pearched at the side of the road with fast moving heavy metal boxes whizzing past you.

also, going through red lights is stupid, but we shouls be allowed some measure of crossing a road as we do not have the take off spead of a car, and also many times the cycle lane is on the outside lane, so if you need to cross a road like a car can, you have no place to do so.

geeky

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Maggie - We're talking about traffic laws in Ireland, not Dorset, San Francisco, or Washiington. How many people have been killed by cyclists in Ireland?

Very few if any directly.

But if a cyclist does something unsafe which then initiates a fatal road accident, is it then not fair to blame the cyclist?

MajorMax

Yesterday I saw a fella on a bike turn left from a minor road to a major road on a T junction (Stop sign, no lights) in quite heavy traffic. He turned left without even looking right once, just pedalled away. No helmet or hi-viz vest.
Now this isn't remarkable in itself, as anyone who drives in Dublin sees this sort of risk-taking and worse every day.
What made me look twice was there was also a marked Gardai car stopped at the top of the junction, also turning left. neither copper did anything.

They can bring in any "Crackdown" they want, but everyone knows that the Guards are already stretched to breaking point and this crackdown is for publicity purposes

Bradidup

Logical_Bear wrote: »

There's a thread in the legal forum about a cyclist asking where to pay a 100 € fine after getting caught breaking a red light so they are getting caught...

€100 fines are far too much for cyclists to pay considering most of them are either students or those on the dole.

kylith

I'm a cyclist and a pedestrian, and I don't mind this crackdown at all. I stop at all traffic and lights and cycle as politely as I can.

My problem is that the roads and cycle paths around Dublin are an absolute disgrace, to the point where they make cycling safely very difficult. On a lot of roads they share space with cars, meaning that cycling on the cycle track blocks the cars behind you, and some roads are simply too narrow to accomodate cars and bikes. Cycle tracks in by the footpath are often in a terrible state of repair; full of broken glass, potholes, and shores/drains that mean that you can't use the cycle track without risking damaging your bike and/or falling off.

Cycle tracks on footpaths are completely unusable as they are not only also full of dangerous rubbish, but also full of pedestrians.

I'm not making excuses for bad, inconsiderate cyclists, I've nearly been killed by them myself a couple of times and I think it would be great for a clampdown on jumping lights, etc. I think that we, as a society, would do well to instill greater road sense in all the young people, and to model somewhere like Amsterdam when it comes to putting cycle paths in a city; it may be a bit terrifying to get used to it but everyone knows what part of the road they're supposed to be on and they know to stick to it.

Capt'n Midnight

seamus wrote: »

If your concern is that cyclists can break the law with abandon and not be punished for it, then what purpose does creating more laws serve?

Creating more unenforced laws means people are conditioned to ignore similar laws.

How often have you seen someone making a right hand turn NOT drive over the white box. That is one penalty point.

How often do you see people actually stop completely at a STOP sign ?

How often do you see people indicating left and driving in a bus lane ?


In the UK they found that roughly speaking the revenue from parking meters matched the costs of repairing footpaths damaged by illegal parking. This would suggest that clamping down on illegal parking would be more cost effective than patrolling meters.

Darkglasses

Bradidup wrote: »

€100 fines are far too much for cyclists to pay considering most of them are either students or those on the dole.

Source.

07Lapierre

kylith wrote: »

I'm a cyclist and a pedestrian, and I don't mind this crackdown at all. I stop at all traffic and lights and cycle as politely as I can.

My problem is that the roads and cycle paths around Dublin are an absolute disgrace, to the point where they make cycling safely very difficult. On a lot of roads they share space with cars, meaning that cycling on the cycle track blocks the cars behind you, and some roads are simply too narrow to accomodate cars and bikes. Cycle tracks in by the footpath are often in a terrible state of repair; full of broken glass, potholes, and shores/drains that mean that you can't use the cycle track without risking damaging your bike and/or falling off.

Cycle tracks on footpaths are completely unusable as they are not only also full of dangerous rubbish, but also full of pedestrians.

I'm not making excuses for bad, inconsiderate cyclists, I've nearly been killed by them myself a couple of times and I think it would be great for a clampdown on jumping lights, etc. I think that we, as a society, would do well to instill greater road sense in all the young people, and to model somewhere like Amsterdam when it comes to putting cycle paths in a city; it may be a bit terrifying to get used to it but everyone knows what part of the road they're supposed to be on and they know to stick to it.

+1...You'll like this video so!

Kurz

reprazant wrote: »

What is you opinion on horses?

They're pretty. Thread is about cycling laws btw.

RacoonQueen

Clever thread title.

SerialComplaint

geeky wrote: »

Very few if any directly.

But if a cyclist does something unsafe which then initiates a fatal road accident, is it then not fair to blame the cyclist?

If a cyclist does something unsafe which then initiates a fatal road accident, is it indeed fair to blame the cyclist. But why are the victims (cyclists) the first ones to be blamed. Why not blame those who directly cause the injuries/killings by driving into the cyclists?

Bradidup wrote: »

€100 fines are far too much for cyclists to pay considering most of them are either students or those on the dole.

Wheere did you get that from? People don't cycle because they are poor. Many people cycle because they don't have time to waste sitting round in traffic. Research in other countries show that cyclists generally have higher disposable incomes than car drivers, and many of them have a taxed car sitting in their driveway. Why would Ireland be any different?

BostonB

Deise Vu wrote: »

And how many of the cyclists were killed because they were being reckless or stupid? I nearly had a cardiac arrest going though a set of traffic lights last night, narrowly avoiding a cyclist speeding his way though a red light and accross my path.

On the plus side, my kids now know the full lexicon of swear words and will be the coolest members of their gangs..

Go find some stats then compare them.

Then ask yourself why are ye targeting the group with the lowest stats.

BostonB

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

• http://www.metro.co.uk/news/719063-cyclist-is-jailed-for-killing-by-1861-law
• http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/san_francisco&id=8700349
• http://dcist.com/2012/06/woman_dies_after_being_hit_by_cycli.php

I'm sure there are others

Worldwide you found 3. Even if there is more, its a tiny speck on the stats compared to other road users. So you have to ask why target such a low group. it makes no sense. Other than moaning about cyclists is popular and gets attention. Which sells newspapers and gets headlines.

Slurryface

SerialComplaint wrote: »

No irony at all. Paris have recently passed a law to allow cyclists to break a red light when turning left. It avoid having a group of cyclists building up at a junction - great idea.


Ah yes, because that registration/insurance system works so well in preventing misbehaviours by motorists. We NEVER see anyone on their phone texting or surfing when driving. We NEVER see anyone breaking the speed limit. We NEVER see anyone turning without indicating.

Oh, hold on a minute...



Maggie - We're talking about traffic laws in Ireland, not Dorset, San Francisco, or Washiington. How many people have been killed by cyclists in Ireland?

We see hundreds of thousands of them recieve penalty points and fines, while cyclists, who contribute no a cent to the upkeep of the roads seem to believe that they own them and can cycle as dangerously as they want with impunity!

RacoonQueen

Slurryface wrote: »

We see hundreds of thousands of them recieve penalty points and fines, while cyclists, who contribute no a cent to the upkeep of the roads seem to believe that they own them and can cycle as dangerously as they want with impunity!

Are cyclists exempt from paying taxes then? If so, can I have a link to the form etc as I have years worth of taxback to claim.

BostonB

geeky wrote: »

Very few if any directly.

But if a cyclist does something unsafe which then initiates a fatal road accident, is it then not fair to blame the cyclist?

Fine. But in the vast majority of cases its not the cyclist. So its makes sense to target the biggest group.

The graph above shows that in the majority of all incidents where cyclists were killed, the driver was held to be solely to blame. This is not the case amongst cyclists under the age of 25 - particularly with regard to children. However, for adults aged 25-39 52% of deaths were deemed to be solely the fault of the driver, while in a further 17%, both the cyclist and the driver had faults attributed to them.

In the case of deaths of cyclists between 40-54, the drivers' share is even higher: 70% drivers alone, 8% jointly at fault and only 23% the sole fault of the cyclist.

When it comes to injuries, rather than deaths, the relationship is even more skewed, with responsibility for the vast majority of crashes laid at the drivers' door.

So next time you hear someone blaming cyclists for their own injuries, you can respond that 80% of all injuries to 25+ cyclists are, according to the police officer recording the incident, either solely or partly the responsibility of the driver...

http://beta.ctc.org.uk/blog/chris-peck/whos-to-blame-in-crashes-between-cyclists-and-motorists

BostonB

Slurryface wrote: »

We see hundreds of thousands of them recieve penalty points and fines, while cyclists, who contribute no a cent to the upkeep of the roads seem to believe that they own them and can cycle as dangerously as they want with impunity!

Its going to blow your mind. But I cycle and pay tax on cars, and other tax beside that. How do you get the idea that cyclists don't pay tax. :rolleyes:

iregk

Slurryface wrote: »

while cyclists, who contribute no a cent to the upkeep of the roads seem to believe that they own them and can cycle as dangerously as they want with impunity!

Wow I'm due a shed load of money so. I'm a cyclist, pay almost €700 a year in motor tax (that's MOTOR TAX by the way not road tax) and also pay paye, income tax etc... If cyclists don't need to pay this how do I go about claiming?

opinion guy

Slurryface wrote: »

We see hundreds of thousands of them recieve penalty points and fines, while cyclists, who contribute no a cent to the upkeep of the roads seem to believe that they own them and can cycle as dangerously as they want with impunity!

I'm pretty sure most cyclists are aware that if they cycle dangerously they are far more likely to be killed than a motorists. I hardly think you describe that as 'without impunity'

alphabeat

crackdown, me hole
... hey wait a minute

galwaycyclist

pickarooney wrote: »

Is it currently illegal to cycle through a red light for a pedestrian crossing when there are no pedestrians or to turn at a red light when traffic is stopped in all directions that use the route you're travelling? There are a lot of areas where strict application of a rule is brainless.

Yes. Cyclist.ie the National Cycling Lobby Group is pushing for things like free left turns for cyclists at red traffic lights. As far as I know there are something like 5000 traffic signals where this applies in Germany. In the US it is common for all vehicles. There are also other circumstances where cyclists could be given an exemption with the little potential for conflict with turning or crossing motor vehicles.

The pedestrian crossing issue is more problematic - in part because in the country cycling campaigners are also the main pedestrian lobby. So moves to exempt cyclists in those circumstances are unlikely to get much support in the near term.

However the fundamental problem is that in this country traffic engineers often appear to use pedestrian crossings as a means of managing and controlling pedestrians for the benefit of motor traffic. The crossings are installed to remove priority from people who walk and give it to cars. The result is that pedestrians ignore the traffic signals. The solution in many cases would be to remove the traffic lights and replace them with a zebra crossing.

If you think these are things you would like to campaign for then send me a PM.

Yakult

I think its a good idea. Many (not all) cyclists think they can do what they want and when they want to, endangering their lives and the lives of others. Would definitely like to see the law come down on those who don't abide the rules. Tarnishes the good cyclists which I do encounter every now and again.

zagmund

omega666 wrote: »

Waiting at traffic light on the N11 yesterday and there was a traffic cop jeep in the lane next to me, Cyclist overtakes both of us and straight through the junction/red light. Looked over at the traffic cop to see if he was going to do anything. Not a budge out of him.

Was thinking if i drove off now through the red light i wonder would i get away with it!

This is a big gripe of mine. I've seen traffic corps vehicles sitting at lights when cars go baling through red lights and continuing to just sit there. It really makes me wonder what needs to happen before the traffic corps pull someone up.

I saw some reference recently to X% (where X is a large number) of cars on the M50 being deficient in tax or insurance, and the proposal was to use the toll or speed cameras to detect offenders. This was to be followed up by the very, very efficient (ha !) process of sending them a letter in the post.

Or we could form a special body of people who are charged with upholding the traffic laws. We could give them a uniform and cars with flashing lights. Then all they would need to do would be to stop traffic coming off the motorways & hit them with a fine straight away. They could even use the fancy cameras to detect the offending vehicles and just stop those ones instead of everyone. If we had such a group of people, what would we call them ? Traffic corps, maybe ?

z

ejmaztec

Cycle tax, cycle insurance, cycle licence, cyclists' cycling test, cycling theory test, fines for defective cycles, annual road-worthiness testing, blah blah blah.

i.e. Another sh1tload of money for the gubberment.:(

Jawgap

BostonB wrote: »

Its going to blow your mind. But I cycle and pay tax on cars, and other tax beside that. How do you get the idea that cyclists don't pay tax. :rolleyes:

Cyclists get a 40% tax break on purchasing a bike - car owners' paying VRT subsidise that

reprazant

Kurz wrote: »

Overthrow wrote: »

Kurz wrote: »

Why they even allow people play with those toys on the same road as motor vehicles in the first place is puzzling. This is good news for everyone.

It's attitudes like this that are the main problem. People who think they own the road and have a disregarding attitude to other road users are the type of people that cause the loss of life on our roads regardless of how they get around.

It's not a case of thinking you own the road, it's the fact that car drivers are hurling a huge motorised metal box around and bicycle owners are propelling themselves on the open road on top of a few metal bars with wheels. I've no gripe with cyclists fundamentally but the roads in most towns in Ireland aren't anywhere near a high enough standard to accommodate both cyclists and motorists safely.

So do you believe then that bicycles should not be allowed on roads?

reprazant

Jawgap wrote: »

Cyclists get a 40% tax break on purchasing a bike - car owners' paying VRT subsidise that

In what way is the different from the car scrappage schemes of old?