Gardi to tackle cycle menaces

pickarooney

Is it currently illegal to cycle through a red light for a pedestrian crossing when there are no pedestrians or to turn at a red light when traffic is stopped in all directions that use the route you're travelling? There are a lot of areas where strict application of a rule is brainless.

anncoates

Thread forecast: heavy front of whataboutery and hysteria moving in from the west.

Deise Vu

babaracus wrote: »

I don't advocate cyclists breaking the rules of the road and yes, the odd person will be hit by an errant cyclist but I suppose I am trying to point out the glaring issue here which is we have a limted Gardai Traffic Corps and there are 2 main groups of road users:

Group 1: Car drivers who kill c.300 people a year on average.
Group 2: Cyclists who don't kill anybody.

Why bother with cyclists?

And how many of the cyclists were killed because they were being reckless or stupid? I nearly had a cardiac arrest going though a set of traffic lights last night, narrowly avoiding a cyclist speeding his way though a red light and accross my path.

On the plus side, my kids now know the full lexicon of swear words and will be the coolest members of their gangs..

maggy_thatcher

babaracus wrote: »

I don't advocate cyclists breaking the rules of the road and yes, the odd person will be hit by an errant cyclist but I suppose I am trying to point out the glaring issue here which is we have a limted Gardai Traffic Corps and there are 2 main groups of road users:

Group 1: Car drivers who kill c.300 people a year on average.
Group 2: Cyclists who don't kill anybody.

Why bother with cyclists?

Firstly - that 300 people a year mostly includes themselves (or their passengers who know what they're getting into), so if you're including that, then you can't say that the cyclists don't kill anybody (as they do appear to kill themselves frequently).

Secondly - if there is little/no excess cost in keeping an eye on the cyclists while watching for bad drivers, then what's the harm in it?

Davyhal

pickarooney wrote: »

Is it currently illegal to cycle through a red light for a pedestrian crossing when there are no pedestrians or to turn at a red light when traffic is stopped in all directions that use the route you're travelling? There are a lot of areas where strict application of a rule is brainless.

Yes, it is illegal. You might not agree with it, but it is. Some people say that the fact that marajuana is illegal is brainless, but it's the law. Stick to it. If you have an issue with it, start a campaign and have the law overturned. Don't just break it.

Gran Hermano

doolox wrote: »

.....you have a number plate and hence an identity. Ownership of a car implies that you have money which can be taken off you in terms of fines.

The government should seriously look at registering bikes and putting tags on them, could be chips like they do on pets now. This will enable cops to readily identify bikers and treat them the same way as other road users.

Perhaps a modest amount paid each year to cover insurance, accidents etc would be a good thing but you couldn't trust the govt not to milk it and charge too much.

I saw two cyclists ride into each other when one broke a red light and the other was turning right too soon before the filter arrow was on. The confrontation was something else to watch.

I also was stuck behind a biker giving out to a motorist at a green light, holding up all the traffic behind. Although I was sorely tempted to blow the horn I kept silent but the cars behind me let up a vertitable cacophony of horns, door banging and shouting more at home in a riot situation than on a public road.

The anger between motorists and bikes is at times palpable.

Hear, hear. With accountability comes responsibility. Motorists know anyone can take their reg and pass on a complaint to the gardai.
Cyclists old enough to cycle on the road should have to pass a basic ROTR test and receive a hi-vis vest with a unique ID number (much like a
reg number on a car).

WoollyRedHat

Haha, people make it sound like people who ride bikes are part of this illicit, underground gang, who are undermining the fabric of society.

Newsflash, cyclists can be drivers, drivers can be cyclists, and cyclists can be paedestrians. i.e we're all still people at the end of the day, and generalising a whole group of road users as crazy and irresponsible, is exactly that, crazy and irresponsible. Get a grip and grow up, some people act dangerously, reguardless of what method of transport they are using.

Undercover Elephant

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Firstly - that 300 people a year mostly includes themselves (or their passengers who know what they're getting into), so if you're including that, then you can't say that the cyclists don't kill anybody (as they do appear to kill themselves frequently).

Actually the evidence is that cyclists are not at fault in the majority of KSIs. When they are, it's typically getting themselves inside left-turning HGVs. I'm not aware of a single cyclist fatality in Ireland due to RLJing.

You're right to say that the majority of road deaths are drivers and passengers. However, I'm not aware of any statistics as to how many of those drivers were at fault, and how many were the innocent victims in multiple vehicle collisions.

Secondly - if there is little/no excess cost in keeping an eye on the cyclists while watching for bad drivers, then what's the harm in it?

I would agree with that. And there's no harm in randomly cracking down on low-level law-breaking either.

The problem with these sort of announcements is that they don't appear to have any sense of proportionality attached to them. They are based on the assumption that cycling is especially dangerous, which it isn't, and that cracking down on cyclists will significantly reduce KSIs, which it won't.

Logical_Bear

There's a thread in the legal forum about a cyclist asking where to pay a 100 € fine after getting caught breaking a red light so they are getting caught...

charlietheminxx

I have nothing against cyclists. However, I was nearly in a very serious car accident due to one breaking a light before and it left me incredible shaken.

The rules of the road are RULES, they need to be obeyed by everyone. People are saying bikes are harmless compared to a car - if we're all sharing one road, cyclists, motorists and pedestrians alike then we need to account for all factors.

Your bike may be relatively unlikely to damage someone, but if someone driving a 2 litre jeep or something has to swerve to avoid you when you break a light or fail to use proper cycling signals, then the damage could be phenomenal. I hate seeing drivers being inconsiderate to cyclists, but I also hate seeing cyclists taking chances that put everyone at risk.

I think cycling is a great thing, and we should definitely invest more in decent cycle lanes etc, but ALL road users have a responsibility. You can't just choose to ignore it because your vehicle is smaller than others.

Davyhal

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Hear, hear. With accountability comes responsibility. Motorists know anyone can take their reg and pass on a complaint to the gardai.
Cyclists old enough to cycle on the road should have to pass a basic ROTR test and receive a hi-vis vest with a unique ID number (much like a
reg number on a car).

I whole heartedly agree with your comment on the hi-vis jacket. I stated something very similar a while back in the cycling forum, and many cyclists were outraged... This particular comment comes to mind... I shall amend the poster's name as I have not seen him involved in this thread today and do not wish to drag him into a conversation that he is not currently debating...

CYCLIST wrote: »

Even if you were right about hi-vis making you more visible in the dusk, which is lacking in any evidential basis, there is a downside.

Dressing cyclists up in ugly gear that you would never wear anywhere else puts other people off cycling. It gives a message that it is an abnormal activity which is unreasonably dangerous.

This is a bad thing. The health benefits of cycling outweigh the risks 20 to 1. And furthermore, the single best way of reducing the risks of cycling is for there to be more people cycling - a doubling of numbers only leads to roughly a 60% increase in accidents.

Indirectly, hi-vis kills.

Many posters agreed with him... Am I in the wrong, or is this a very crazy way of thinking?!

reprazant

The article also says that Gardai are going to tackle the scourge of jaywalking also. Too right. Drive through town at night and the amount of idiots who think nothing of just walking out onto the road is unreal.

Kurz

Overthrow wrote: »

It's attitudes like this that are the main problem. People who think they own the road and have a disregarding attitude to other road users are the type of people that cause the loss of life on our roads regardless of how they get around.

It's not a case of thinking you own the road, it's the fact that car drivers are hurling a huge motorised metal box around and bicycle owners are propelling themselves on the open road on top of a few metal bars with wheels. I've no gripe with cyclists fundamentally but the roads in most towns in Ireland aren't anywhere near a high enough standard to accommodate both cyclists and motorists safely.

VINCWM

WE NEED BETTER ROADS AND CYCLING PATHS!

Seriously...

MysticalRain

I Am Kong! wrote: »

Nice the way you just threw those three words in there.

That's not really what he was saying now was it?

It's not the Traffic Corps to pro-actively seek out gangland activity. Of course if they see something they've to intervene - they're the police!

Neither yourself or him actually understand the point of gardai patrolling the streets (pro-actively seeking out crime is half the point of patrols in the first place).

Traffic Corps and beat cops are often the first point of contact when it comes to dealing with gangland crime, whether they are patrolling or just manning checkpoints looking for wanted criminals.

You can twist my words whatever way you want to. But I find it comical that Gardai are chasing bicyclists around the place while our city centres are over run with open drug dealing. All at a time when Gardai are supposedly short on resources. Maybe there should be less Gardai assigned to traffic duties and more assigned to dealing with organised crime.

pickarooney

Davyhal wrote: »

Yes, it is illegal. You might not agree with it, but it is. Some people say that the fact that marajuana is illegal is brainless, but it's the law. Stick to it. If you have an issue with it, start a campaign and have the law overturned. Don't just break it.

I find it kind of worrying that people just accept things as right because they're the law. I'm much more pragmatic and prefer to act as I see fit and accept the consequences, i.e. when I know there will be none I consider it OK to proceed.

07734

I misread thread title as something to do with women's troubles.

reprazant

Kurz wrote: »

It's not a case of thinking you own the road, it's the fact that car drivers are hurling a huge motorised metal box around and bicycle owners are propelling themselves on the open road on top of a few metal bars with wheels. I've no gripe with cyclists fundamentally but the roads in most towns in Ireland aren't anywhere near a high enough standard to accommodate both cyclists and motorists safely.

Are motorcycles also toys which can't share a road with huge motorised metal boxes?

Kurz

reprazant wrote: »

Are motorcycles also toys which can't share a road with huge motorised metal boxes?

Are they the same as bicycles?

seamus

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Motorists know anyone can take their reg and pass on a complaint to the gardai.

And as we can see it's so effective at keeping motorists in line :rolleyes:

Cyclists old enough to cycle on the road should have to pass a basic ROTR test and receive a hi-vis vest with a unique ID number (much like a
reg number on a car).

And who, pray tell, will police this requirement? If your concern is that cyclists can break the law with abandon and not be punished for it, then what purpose does creating more laws serve?

ArmaniJeanss

"Must pass an exam, compulsory helmet, must have a hi-viz jacket with a visible number on it"
All these would do is get 95% of cyclists off the roads, making life immeasurably more dangerous for the remaining 5%.

Thankfully none of these ridiculous ideas proposed will ever get close to fruition.

mitosis

babaracus wrote: »

I don't advocate cyclists breaking the rules of the road and yes, the odd person will be hit by an errant cyclist but I suppose I am trying to point out the glaring issue here which is we have a limted Gardai Traffic Corps and there are 2 main groups of road users:

Group 1: Car drivers who kill c.300 people a year on average.
Group 2: Cyclists who don't kill anybody.

Why bother with cyclists?

Why bother with bike thieves?

Pickpockets?

Rapists

Does someone have to be killed for laws to be enforcable?

opinion guy

Right......

Can someone tell me something......why do motorists in particular get so annoyed about cyclists breaking red lights ?????

Personally as a driver I find jaywalkers a much bigger problem. Why dont' they crack down on that ?

....I just don't get why people go so mental about cyclists - I can only think it is jealousy on the part of motorists at being passed out by cyclists.

Edit: I see they will be cracking down on pedestrians also......with a stern talking too.... :rolleyes:

patrickbrophy18

Kurz wrote: »

Why they even allow people play with those toys on the same road as motor vehicles in the first place is puzzling. This is good news for everyone.

Couldn't have put it better myself! The article also mentions that the Garda are to get tougher on irresponsible pedestrians. I'm glad to hear this. Too many pedestrians and cyclists treat roads as a playground.

The law forbids people to step out in front of a moving trains. So, the same should apply to stepping out in front of moving cars, buses, trucks, ambulances, fire brigades and tractors.

Feeona

opinion guy wrote: »

Right......

Can someone tell me something......why do motorists in particular get so annoyed about cyclists breaking red lights ?????

Personally as a driver I find jaywalkers a much bigger problem. Why dont' they crack down on that ?

....I just don't get why people go so mental about cyclists - I can only think it is jealousy on the part of motorists at being passed out by cyclists.

I think it's because cyclists complain about the dangers on the roads, yet those going through red lights don't seem to be doing much to help themselves.

Reminds me of motorcyclists going at top speeds on crappy roads, but yet they expect everyone else to look out for their safety!

humbert

This is a publicity stunt. There'll be a week or two of action in a few arbitrary areas and then they will go back to scratching their arses.

Initiatives like this aren't what's needed, regular consistent enforcement of the road traffic laws to all road users is what's needed and it will be a long while before we see that.

reprazant

Kurz wrote: »

Are they the same as bicycles?

In that they are also few metal bars with wheels, yes.

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

SerialComplaint

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

"Must pass an exam, compulsory helmet, must have a hi-viz jacket with a visible number on it"
All these would do is get 95% of cyclists off the roads, making life immeasurably more dangerous for the remaining 5%.

Thankfully none of these ridiculous ideas proposed will ever get close to fruition.

And most of those cyclists would switch back to using their cars, causing traffic chaos.

Kurz

reprazant wrote: »

In that they are also few metal bars with wheels, yes.

With an engine capable of keeping up with traffic, indicators, lights, mirrors and a licensed driver with tax/insurance and proper safety gear. No, bicycles and motorbikes aren't the same.