The most important thing a woman will do?

Ellsbells

Nymeria wrote: »

. This is a discussion board, and TLL is for women of all types, parents and non-parents. I don't see the problem with debating the issue, or at least bringing it up as a valid issue.

.

Well I was effectively told, by certain posters who dont have kids, to P off to parenting when I asked how the ladies of TLL (who had kids) had changed since having their kids!! So if its ok to talk about women who dont have kids, why isnt it ok for women who have kids to discuss it here? It has to work both ways - we can either talk about all womens issues or not? Are women who have kids to be segregated from TLL????

Madam_X

If there was a discussion on life as a childfree woman (which mothers can still relate to seeing as they were once child-free) this seems like its natural home; where else would suit? Whereas a discussion for mothers only does exclude a large chunk of participants/readers here which would not be the case in the Parenting forum.

meeeeh

Nymeria wrote: »

I wouldn't say that its drama...its discussion. This is a discussion board, and TLL is for women of all types, parents and non-parents. I don't see the problem with debating the issue, or at least bringing it up as a valid issue.

I also tend to roll my eyes at these types of lazy generalisations when they refer to all women, and like another poster pointed out, it rarely gets aimed at men. I'm sure for many women it is the most important thing in their life, however I also believe there are women out there who are mothers who maybe don't want to be categorised in such a limited way.

There is already Ann Romney thread. I'm actually insulted by what you are implying here. Do you think that realizing that having a child is the most important thing in my life regarding lifestyle changes this brings, is me wanting to be categorized in a limited way? I still categorize myself as a woman first, I still have interest that don't include children and I don't go all weak in the knees whenever I see drooling baby. And it would not be the end of my life if I couldn't have children. However this has nothing to do with the fact that I can't go to a hairdresser without organizing someone to mind a child or can't book a weekend break for two on Thursday and leave on Friday. Once you decide to take care of a helpless human being (and I would include in that decisions that some have to make if their partner or parent etc. becomes incapable of taking care of them selves) it hugely impacts your life.

I'm not saying that you can't have a career or discover a cure for cancer but your primary duty is to those who depend on you. So it is not about how you want to be defined but about where your primary duty lies. At least in the societies where nuclear family is hugely prevailing family.

eviltwin

Madam_X wrote: »

If there was a discussion on life as a childfree woman (which mothers can still relate to seeing as they were once child-free) this seems like its natural home; where else would suit? Whereas a discussion for mothers only does exclude a large chunk of participants/readers here which would not be the case in the Parenting forum.

Parenting is more about practical stuff though, its not really the forum for women to talk about their attitudes to motherhood or how they feel about the way society portrays it.

I think there has been a lot of anti-motherhood comments in here of late, I don't know what's driving it. Many of the posts have been started by child free posters so its not like the motherhood issue is being driven by the parents here.

meeeeh

Madam_X wrote: »

If there was a discussion on life as a childfree woman (which mothers can still relate to seeing as they were once child-free) this seems like its natural home; where else would suit? Whereas a discussion for mothers only does exclude a large chunk of participants/readers here which would not be the case in the Parenting forum.

So the thread on experiences of colposcopy should be moved to some medical forum, because most of us never had it?

Ickle Magoo

Folks, what should or shouldn't be good to go as a discussion topic in this forum isn't really appropriate/on-topic for this particular thread.

At long last we have a feedback thread up and running - any concerns should/can be raised there.

Cheers.

Madam_X

Fair enough. I'm not a fan of the anti parent/child stuff either.

jasonb

This is TV3 for god's sake, that's probably one of their least 'sensationalist' voice-overs. They're tabloid television, I wouldn't expect anything less from them...

J.

Nymeria

meeeeh wrote: »

There is already Ann Romney thread. I'm actually insulted by what you are implying here.

Actually, I was picking up on what some other posters have said, namely;

'Being a mother is the most important role a mother can play in life.', or ' For a lot of women it will be the most important thing they do.' etc.

And I stand by what I said, I never meant to insult anybody. I do think there are many women out there who are mothers, but who also want to hold onto the person they are independent of their partner/ children. However, in advertising especially, it seems that 'mum' is the descriptive used most often....'sponsor of mums', 'mums go to Iceland' and they are categorised as mums and not much else. This also happens in real life, how often have you heard someone identify themselves as 'Katie's mum' or 'Tommy's mum', people even put it as their username sometimes. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but I do think that for some women, they don't want to just be seen as so-and-so's mum.

It's interesting that you mentioned the Ann Romney thread, because I agreed with the OP there aswell, however very quickly that thread got shot down for the OP being over sensitive.

I for one don't feel that highlighting issues like this should be seen as an attack on parenting. Nor am I saying that issues on parenting should be left out of the ladies lounge.

Why does it have to come down to parent vs. non-parent?

Ellsbells, you are right, you should not have been told to 'take it to parenting', firstly, it is a moderators job to decide where threads go, and secondly if a thread doesn't apply, then people don't have to read it/ answer it.
However, equally I think that those of us who dont have/ want children should be able to discuss it here, and any issues that come with that without it being taken as an attack on parents or that we are evil child hating monsters.

Nymeria

eviltwin wrote: »

Parenting is more about practical stuff though, its not really the forum for women to talk about their attitudes to motherhood or how they feel about the way society portrays it.

I think there has been a lot of anti-motherhood comments in here of late, I don't know what's driving it. Many of the posts have been started by child free posters so its not like the motherhood issue is being driven by the parents here.

Where are the 'anti-motherhood' comments? Are people saying 'mothers are bad, children are horrible'? Or am I missing something?

People talking about their own personal reasons for not having/ wanting children is not an attack on your choice to parent, and I feel they are equally entitled to discuss their issues here.

Lucyfur

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Folks, what should or shouldn't be good to go as a discussion topic in this forum isn't really appropriate/on-topic for this particular thread.

At long last we have a feedback thread up and running - any concerns should/can be raised there.

Cheers.

A reminder. Please stay on topic

eviltwin

Nymeria wrote: »

Where are the 'anti-motherhood' comments? Are people saying 'mothers are bad, children are horrible'? Or am I missing something?

People talking about their own personal reasons for not having/ wanting children is not an attack on your choice to parent, and I feel they are equally entitled to discuss their issues here.

Its the tone I have taken from some of the threads. Some people are very defensive of their decision not to have children. Whatever a person decides to do is there business but defending your choices shouldn't mean taking a smug attitude that you are somehow better for it.

CathyMoran

For me it is the most rewarding thing that I have done, but I have always wanted to be a mother and went through a lot for it to happen. It is not the same for everyone.

Ellsbells

It's actually more insulting to women who have had kids late rather than women don't have kids. It's insinuating we are out drinking cocktails while our fertility dwindles and that we are doing this without a care in the world for the health of the baby.

meeeeh

As somebody said, it's TV3. It's also the statement everyone can understand in their own way (and we obviously did) and be insulted by it or agree with it. But TV3 seems to be an easy target for people to be outraged by their shows in the same way as people complain about stereotypes or generalisations in tabloids or soaps. They depend on advertising money, more you ignore those programes or magazines fewer of them will be maðe.

Edit: I just heard the add. The actual quote is: giving birth coud be the most important thing many women will do in their life... And then asking why are so many leaving it so late when it's riskier.

I don't know if that makes it less or more insulting but it is helpful if people quote accurately. It changes the tone of the add completely and I agree with Ellsbels if anybody should be insulted by it is those who have children later in life. The statement is a bit nonsensical and I still don't find it insulting but I'm even more at loss how somebody can understand it as an attack on childless people or as an suggestion that women are only ðefined by motherhood.

Ellsbells

The Ann Romney thread was started by an American man.

Lucyfur

I've been thinking about this for ages and trying to think of something wonderful I've done, outside motherhood, which really defines me...and to be honest, I'm struggling

For me, becoming a mum changed my life. And I'm not being dramatic when I say that. Everything I've done in life to date, has been to better the life I can give my son. I do my best to teach him the value of money and the importance of kindness. I encourage him to do well at school so he can go and be the best at whatever he wants to do.

So yeah, for me, the most important thing I've done has been becoming a mum. And not because I gave birth and procreated and it was wonderful and everyone should do it. But because it gave me the kick up the bum I needed to better myself, so that I could bring my son up in an environment where he sees that a bit of hard work and love (corny as it sounds) make our world go round.


Disclaimer;
I am by no means saying that motherhood defines women. Far, far from it;)

kylith

SarahBeep! wrote: »

Is that all we're here for, procreation??

Well, yes, as far as biology is concerned, yes. And that's all men are here for too. We're organic, self-replicating, machines; everything else is periphery.

Das Kitty

kylith wrote: »

Well, yes, as far as biology is concerned, yes. And that's all men are here for too. We're organic, self-replicating, machines; everything else is periphery.

Even that's periphery in the grand scheme of the universe.

IMO, nothing we do is really important. As humans we only matter to one another and ourselves. So my opinion of what the most important thing I can do as a woman, or just as a person, is to improve the lives of others and my own life in any small way I can.

Bringing a child into the world in and of itself isn't important. But in my case at least the extra love I have in my life, and my husband has in his now has improved our lives. (Before anyone starts, that's not to say that people without children are loveless, quite the contrary. The human capacity for love is boundless in my experience. Always room for a little bit more.)

It also improves our lives and his to bring him up. It feels like achievement and it makes us happier. But there are plenty of things that can give that sense of achivement and happiness to people. None is greater than the other, IMO. It's all how the individual perceives it.