Buffalo & Doozerie - The mild musings of two grumpy old men!

CramCycle

Buffalo the next time it happens:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzE-IMaegzQ

buffalo

nomdeboardie wrote: »

:pac:
You should have stopped behind him loudly asking "Eh, will you be long? 'Cos I don't want to move out to go around you now that you've pointed out the error of my ways. Eh, will you be long...? Eh..."

I've given up engaging with motorists for the most part. The only thing I tend to do is wave at close-passers after I catch up with them, to let them know their risk-taking was for nought in the end.

Weepsie

Had a pedestrian step out from behind an SUV with his kids yesterday without ever apparently looking. I stopped in time, yet he took umbrage with me for carelessness and because he was with children.

I was thinking, that you teach children to look both ways, and look again before crossing. It's pretty basic stuff. He blindly stepped onto the road from behind a vehicle. It was only because I was going fairly slowly anyway as I know the road, and alert enough that something didn't happen, yet he didn't see his own responsibility in this incident.

Fighting Tao

Weepsie wrote: »

I was thinking, that you teach children to look both ways, and look again before crossing. It's pretty basic stuff. He blindly stepped onto the road from behind a vehicle. It was only because I was going fairly slowly anyway as I know the road, and alert enough that something didn't happen, yet he didn't see his own responsibility in this incident.

The newer Safe Cross Code ad is ridiculously soft and doesn't grab the attention it should. It's nowhere near as effective as the Judge ad or the Green Cross Code man ads of old from the UK.

I am mentioning them because they probably tought a lot of us when we were younger. They always seemed to be on TV.

CramCycle

Dear people who cannot see in Sunlight, if you cannot see, it does not mean nothing is there. It means you cannot see and should not move until you can see and it is safe to do so. FFS. Every near miss this morning was by some muppet covering their eyes as they pretended to look, or just couldn't be arsed with their mirrors.

Mc Love

buffalo wrote: »

I've given up engaging with motorists for the most part. The only thing I tend to do is wave at close-passers after I catch up with them, to let them know their risk-taking was for nought in the end.

Do the same, really infuriates them

Alek

So I pootle along on my BMI-challenged bike to work, on the painted cycle lane next to DCU in Drumcondra, when this salmon appears on the horizon, on his stand up scooter, heading for a headbutt collision.

I stop, thinking he'll do the same, so I can gently educate him about the dangers of going against the stream in morning traffic, the problem is he apparently has no brakes and goes way too fast (its downhill there) to simply jump off to the sidewalk.

He squeezes by me by an inch, trying to brake with his right foot, I stand there bit mortified, but no sound of crash comes from behind; I turn to see him successfully miss everyone on the bus stop and finally he halts.

Jaysis, although I feel bad for not swerving out of the way (but then what if there was a car next to me?), if this will not teach him, he'll be dead in a week.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=476581&stc=1&d=1553853983

doozerie

Mood set to "vent", posting tone set to "moan", indicator on and move out smoothly...

While cycling to work recently I went round the outside of a left-turning car as I passed through a crossroads. My focus was the turning car, the traffic behind me, and making sure I threw myself under neither. As I cleared the car, a bicycle wheel intruded on my consciousness. It was a bicycle courier that was rolling into the junction from my left, through their red light.

I swung my bike right, while trying to stay within my lane, but as my left foot clipped their front wheel I was sure we'd both end up on on the ground since my left-mounted rear pannier bag seemed certain to collide more solidly with them. I briefly wondered whether the moving traffic behind would stop in time if I found myself on the deck. Thankfully it didn't happen, I stayed upright somehow and the courier did too. I glanced back to see them sheepishly raising a hand in acknowledgement.

I've had plenty of conversations with cyclists that have assured me that running a red light is fine because they always "make sure it's safe" first. I see people break red lights every single day, on bikes and in cars. Many many people are clearly convinced that it's a safe practice. I suspect that courier would have argued the same, though maybe with a little less enthusiasm that morning...


But the following week was a new week, it was going to be a better week, I could feel it in my waters.

So I was feeling optimistic on the Monday morning. But optimism doesn't trump basic common sense, so as I approached a car stopped on red in a left turning+bus lane with their left indicator on, I stopped behind them. I could have gone round on their outside, just to sit a metre or two ahead and now in their path, but why would I do that? Or I could have gone up their inside to get to the same spot, but why? I occasionally see those signs on the back of large vehicles that say cyclists shouldn't pass on the inside when the vehicles are turning left, and I wonder why they think it necessary to print something that seems so blatantly obvious.

It's clearly a measure of how hopelessly naive I am that as I saw a cyclist pass fast on my inside, to go up the inside of the indicating car, I thought to myself that he'd be on the brakes any moment now. But no. As he reached the car, the traffic light changed to green and the car started to move. I expected a squeal of bicycle brakes, a sheepish looking cyclist. But no. The cyclist motored on undeterred, up the inside of the car like a rat up a drainpipe, he cleared the front left of the car as the car was well into the junction and now stopped. I assume the motorist had seen him and held back, because the timing was about perfect for the cyclist to have ended up either embedded in that front wing, or under it, if the motorist hadn't been on the ball.

I wondered whether the cyclist had been given a fright, or whether he was completely oblivious to what had almost been his fate. I got my answer at the next red light, which he merrily rode through. Which he did "safely" of course, just like he had "safely" negotiated the previous junction. And in the process he had shaved at least a handful of seconds off his commute. Probably. Maybe. I guess in the weighing up of the value of his life against the saving of a few seconds, the latter wins in his mind.


Same day, new journey, hopeless optimism renewed so this was a fresh start. My commute home brings me through Rathmines. I have a lasting memory of Rathmines from when I first arrived in Dublin and was looking for somewhere to live. There were quite a few "apartments" available there at the time and while they were a ludicrous price, that was in the context of Dublin prices so they almost looked like a bargain. All of the ones that I looked at though involved sharing. Mostly sharing with hygiene-challenged multi-legged creatures that like to scurry along the floors when you are walking around in bare feet. It was clearly family-friendly accommodation though, given the numbers of rodent families that clearly lived there. On the surface the area has improved a lot over the years, the buildings look better maintained (mostly). Not so true of those passing through though, road-ents seem to have taken over.

I came over the canal bridge, with the inevitable cyclists breaking their red light to my left and getting the hump when I wouldn't stop to let them pull out in front of me (I'm a horrible person). A Dublin bus driver had decided that driving in the cycle lane was the right and proper thing to do so he was clung to the kerb while stopped in the long line of traffic ahead. I reckon I knew why the bus driver took this position, I regularly see cyclists shoot up the inside of buses that are trying to pull into the bus stop 50m ahead, some even while the bus is actually driving towards the kerb, I'd hate to be in the shoes of the bus driver in that situation. That didn't excuse the rubbish driving on the part of this bus driver though.

Anyway, I stopped behind it. Cyclists swarmed past on my right without a moment's hesitation. Surprisingly no cyclists passed on my left though, it wouldn't be the first time I'v seen someone act as if they could shove a "mere bus" out of their way, maybe none of the cyclists on this day had had their porridge that morning. The overtakers seemed unconcerned even as the bus started to roll slowly forward and the car behind it rolled forward into the gap that the cyclists were aiming for. But no-one died, so I imagine none of the overtakers took anything from it other than a reinforced sense of immortality.

The bus reached the bus stop, let people on and off, and indicated to pull out into traffic again. It hadn't taken long but I was keen to get moving again once it was out of my way. As the bus started to pull out though, several more cyclists went past me and round the outside of the bus. Two of the cyclists couldn't get past, presumably due to the traffic ahead, so they were stranded between the side of the bus and the centre line of the road, clearly unwilling to drop back and pull in behind. So they kept cycling slowly, and the bus kept driving slowly beside them and still practically clung to the kerb. Despite the stakes being so high, this battle of wills between the cyclists and the bus driver was utterly boring.

At last the cycle lane opened up in front of me as the bus pulled out into the solid tailback of cars. But 20 metres ahead a car that had pulled out from a road to the right was angled so badly that its front was completely blocking the cycle lane. The car driver was wrestling with his steering wheel and gears as he tried to reposition his car in the limited space available between him and the cars in front and behind him. I shed an internal tear as I stopped my bike again. Then things got really surreal.

It was like I'd stepped into an old-school martial arts flick, one of those scenes where the hero (that's me, it's my martial arts flick, so I get to be the hero!) starts spitting fireballs from his hands at the thing in his path. In this low budget flick though, actual fireballs were too expensive so we had to make do with cyclists instead. At least, that must be how it looked to the shocked car driver ahead, as from his perspective all he could see was me but suddenly this swarm of cyclists sprouted from left and right as they rode round me from behind. The budget was so low that the cyclists were sh1te. Two of them swerved left at the sight of the car ahead, mounted the footpath and wobbled precariously as they tried to weave between and around the pedestrians. Two more swerved right, choosing to ride into the oncoming lane and its line of moving cars in order to get round the angled car which by now was trying to reverse.

Most heroes save their best 'til last, but not me apparently. The car ahead had reversed a little just as another cyclist cut up my inside. She (because I'm an equal opportunities hero and I'll defend my right to employ female idiot fireballs/cyclists alongside male idiot fireballs/cyclists) must surely have seen that the angled car was now driving forward again, further into the cycle lane as the driver tried to swing the front of the car out of the cycle lane, but she dived for the shrinking gap between car and kerb anyway. She jammed on her brakes at about the same time as the driver, closest thing to a collision since the guy from the previous week undertaking the left-turning car. And just like that incident, it was entirely avoidable and utterly stupid.

"Are you TRYING to get yourself run over?", I asked as I passed her by moments later, but she didn't reply. I forgot to tell her she ruined my movie, and my career as a hero, who wants a hero with incompetent "weapons"?

aldark

doozerie wrote: »

So I was feeling optimistic on the Monday morning. But optimism doesn't trump basic common sense, so as I approached a car stopped on red in a left turning+bus lane with their left indicator on, I stopped behind them. I could have gone round on their outside, just to sit a metre or two ahead and now in their path, but why would I do that? Or I could have gone up their inside to get to the same spot, but why? I occasionally see those signs on the back of large vehicles that say cyclists shouldn't pass on the inside when the vehicles are turning left, and I wonder why they think it necessary to print something that seems so blatantly obvious.
(

That's all very familiar and a good summation of what I see on the road too.

Just one thought though, what is the best way to approach a junction as you've described?

In general I'd always yield to a left turning indicator and would probably go around the outside in this case. I wouldn't stop behind the left turner as a) other cars don't expect you take up a position in front of them and b) if you hang back, traffic (ie. other cyclists) will fill the gap. I'd also leave a good bit of space between a stopped car and me in case they roll back.

RotR warns motorists to check that they are clear to turn left, but on a busy commuting road e.g. rathmines, harolds cross, how would they ever manage the turn?

What do the road engineers say?

doozerie

aldark wrote: »

Just one thought though, what is the best way to approach a junction as you've described?

This situation was easy. The left-turning car was stationary due to the red light and it was the only thing in the lane at the time, so I stopped a couple of metres directly behind it. It was a downhill bit of road, so no fear in this case of the car rolling back towards me, but I've seen enough drivers (usually, though not exclusively, in cars with L plates) accidentally put their car into reverse when moving off, that I always leave a reasonable gap to the stopped car ahead of me both when cycling and driving.

I was lined up roughly with the centre of the car. This kept me away from the lane on the right as it was full of cars keen to move as soon as the light changed green - they were heading into a tailback beyond the junction so speed on their part would be pointless but many people seem not to think about that in their rush to get through on green. The left-turning lane was also a bus lane which extended beyond the junction so it was the best/safest place for me to be as I was going straight on.

I kept out from the kerb to my left as I was taking the lane so that any traffic that might arrive behind me wouldn't try to shove past on my right, it's shocking how many people will put you at risk just so that they can gain an extra metre or two in stopped traffic. Inevitably though this position means that cyclists will often go past on my inside/left, in what all too often seems like a rush to get themselves squashed, but that just seem unavoidable - I've had people on bikes shove past on my inside when I've been stopped no more than a foot from the kerb too, some people are just oblivious to the world around them and their impact on it.

Mc Love

Damn I was expecting to see someone end up on the road, i thought that is what you were leading up to. Some downright dangerous cycling in Dublin.

Ray Bloody Purchase

Mc Love wrote: »

Damn I was expecting to see someone end up on the road, i thought that is what you were leading up to. Some downright dangerous cycling in Dublin.

I was walking along outside Store Street Garda Station yesterday and a courier cyclist nearly took me out of it on the footpath with their cargo bike.

And as for the lunatics who ride the Dublin Bikes...

Leroy42

Ray Bloody Purchase wrote: »

I was walking along outside Store Street Garda Station yesterday and a courier cyclist nearly took me out of it on the footpath with their cargo bike.

And as for the lunatics who ride the Dublin Bikes...

So, are you saying we need to get rid of Store Street Garda Station?

Ray Bloody Purchase

Leroy42 wrote: »

So, are you saying we need to get rid of Store Street Garda Station?

Yes. That's exactly what i meant.

doozerie

On my commute home today I was coming up towards the National Concert Hall, on a wide 3-lane road. I need the right-most of the two lanes in my direction, as at the crossroads ahead the road narrows to just these two lanes before splitting at what is basically a T-junction, left lane to turn left, right lane to turn right.

I glanced over my right shoulder, the only vehicle visible on the road behind me was a taxi at least 100m back, so I moved across to the lane to my right. A few metres later I heard a car horn sound. I wondered briefly whether it was the taxi beeping at me but then reasoned that would be ridiculous so dismissed it. A few seconds after that the taxi drove past, a handful of inches from my right elbow. I haven't had a punishment overtake in a while, I haven't missed them.

He seemed to slow up as his rear wing came alongside me, there was a green light ahead and about 50m of clear road between the taxi and the junction, perhaps the only reason for him to slow up at that point was to (further) scare me. I don't respond well to aggressive behaviour targeted at me, I slapped the car with the palm of my hand, it was so close that I didn't even have to reach. He sped up a little.

Just beyond the junction he had to stop behind the tailback of cars ahead. I stopped too. I wasn't happy. He wasn't happy. Which fuelled my unhappiness further. The "conversation" was predictable:

Him: "What's your problem?!"
Me: "What's *your* problem?"
Him: "You were in the middle of de fukkin' road!!!"
Me: "Which lane are you in?"
Him: "The LANE FOR TURNING RIGHT!"
Me: "SO WAS I!"
Him: ...pause...
Him: ...mental struggle, will I continue to be a complete dick...
Him: ...more mental struggle, fukkin' cyclists, fukk ya, I'm gonna continue to be a complete dick...
Him: "You were all over de fukkin' road, no indicator, nothin'" blah blah

etc.

This was a man that had made a conscious decision to skim closely past me, deliberately putting my life at risk, and I have absolutely no doubt that we would have driven casually away if I'd come off the bike as a direct consequence of his actions. For him this was apparently perfectly rational, perfectly acceptable, and maybe even quite common, behaviour. I couldn't help but wonder what could possibly constitute unacceptable behaviour for someone like him.

Well, that question was answered pretty quickly. "You call yourself a professional driver, and you drive like THAT?!", said I, and at that he lunged for his seatbelt, unclipped it, and flung his door open while yelling something about "I'll come out there AND ....!!!". Clearly I'd crossed a boundary, I'd questioned the standard of someone's driving when all they'd done was endanger the life of someone, I needed sorting out, and bleedin' rapid at that. And he was the man to sort me out.

Except that he wasn't of course. His show of (even further) aggression didn't have the desired effect of scaring me off. And when I said "So, you are going to assault me now are you?", his bluster all but disappeared, probably helped by the presence of a passenger in the rear seat of his car, the presence of the cars containing witnesses ahead, and more cars arriving behind. So he reverted to more verbal nonsense, telling me that the danger to me was myself, blah, blah. I guess that I *made him* drive like a dick. Or something.

I rode off at that point, I wasn't sure what I might say or do if I stayed. When confronted by such a determined level of stupidity and obnoxiousness, things can only go further downhill. He remained stuck in traffic, presumably that too is everyone else's fault but his ("All these bleedin' bastards in their cars, delaying me in my car! GRRRRR!!!!").

It's not like I'm oblivious to the fact that some people place their sense of self-righteousness way ahead of the welfare of everyone around them, but it's shocking and depressing to encounter it face to face. He knows he was "right" and he'll continue to know it, punishment pass after punishment pass, until a punishment pass goes wrong and he hurts or kills someone, at which point he'll have to defend his "it was their own fault" argument in court. Though I do wonder how often such people really do end up in court no matter how appalling and illegal their behaviour.

Mc Love

Your impersonation is bleeding deadly

magicbastarder

well, i fair turned the air blue this morning. entering a roundabout in the right lane, as i was taking a right out of the roundabout, and the artic which entered just behind me and in the left lane (i.e. for going left or straight on) decided to use the same exit as me. nothing like glancing over your shoulder and seeing the bumper of an artic lorry several feet from you.
i am under no illusion that the lorry driver made a genuine mistake, i think he just wanted a wide swing at the roundabout or was playing with me.

buffalo

Funny one yesterday, coming from the quays heading for the Phoenix Park. Outside the Criminal Courts the right lane is full of stopped cars, so after I cross the Luas tracks I indicate right and shoulder check, and just move to the right-hand side of the left lane.

A few seconds later I get a beep from the van driver behind me, presumably because there's not enough room for him to squeeze past me on the inside. As we exchange gestures (me - wtf? shrugs, him - hand wavey get out of my way), we end missing the green.

He rolls up next to me, wanting to know why I hadn't changed lanes after I indicated right, and me explaining that I am heading right, but there's a line of stopped cars preventing me from going any further. Turns out he wanted to cut in front of said line of traffic, but my existence and presence was preventing this.

But I was delighted to be able to respond to his opener...
Him: "How many lanes do you want to be in?"
Me: "I can only be in one at a time". :pac:

doozerie

On the way to work yesterday I had a car pull out in front of me from the parking area in front of a funeral home. A (empty) hearse pulled out first, with plenty of time to spare, the car behind it stopped, the driver looked my way, presumably saw me approach but also saw the line of cars a bit further behind me (I was quicker away from the lights than they were) and decided that it was better to pull out in front of me rather than wait and get stuck behind me plus the cars. So he drove out.

He was entirely in the wrong, but his ignorant behaviour was compounded by what he was driving. A stretch "limo". I'd already stopped pedalling as I was convinced he was going to pull out. But as more and more car stretched out in front of me, sideways on, I had to go for my brakes and swing as close to the kerb as I could get.

As is so often the case in this scenario, having completed the turn the driver lost the accelerator, or the gear stick, or consciousness, perhaps all three. So the car sat there as if sighing, and saying "grand so", before starting to move on. And a longer car requires even more time to let out a longer sigh, it seems.

It's no wonder there are so few stretch limos around, evolution has meant that since cyclists generally move faster, the majority of stretch limos have long since been caught and devoured. I didn't devour it though, I'd had my breakfast already, so instead, as I passed him, I waved a hand in the air in that international expression of "What. The. Jaysus?!".

Cue a car horn beeping. I looked back to see him trying to lean through the windscreen, making a big show of his hand jerking up and down. Seemed superfluous to be honest, he was clearly a jerk, miming his condition was unnecessary. A little further on he drove past at speed, staring at me with a face that suggested terrible indigestion with a twist of heartburn. He clearly took his miming seriously, probably a graduate of advanced clown school.

A minute later I pulled up beside him as he was stopped in a line of cars at a traffic light.

Me: "You pulled out in front of me and then YOU give out to ME?"
Him: "You could have slowed down!"
Me: "I had right of way"
Him, glancing at the empty hearse ahead and his own empty car: "HAVE SOME RESPECT!"
Me, glancing at the empty hearse ahead and his own empty car: "Respect? Ha! Are you actually trying to drum up some business or what?"
Him: "GRRRR. Look at the fookin' STAY-ET OF YA!"

...this from the red-faced, clammy-skinned, overweight, imploding, angry-headed man stuck in traffic. Yeah, look at the state of me, 'cos I look pure awesome by comparison, but then anyone/anything would.

What can you do except laugh, including as he swung his car further to the left to cut me up as we started moving again. Apparently I still wasn't showing enough respect, or something, I guess he'll expect more respect if we ever meet again. Maybe by then he'll have looked up "respect" in the dictionary, probably while driving since he clearly doesn't waste his time behind the wheel with trivialities like obeying the rules of the road, observing other traffic, and generally trying not to be a knob.

magicbastarder

doozerie wrote: »

Him, glancing at the empty hearse ahead and his own empty car: "HAVE SOME RESPECT!"

god, that is brilliant.

buffalo

The complete lack of self-awareness or anticipation of some people - especially when driving - never ceases to amaze me. I'm not sure why at this point.

Coming down the north quays on a manky morning, past the Custom House and through the junction at Talbot Bridge. I'm behind a bus, there's a taxi following me.

On the other side of the junction, the bus starts indicating to pull in. I indicate to pull out around the bus - there are two lanes at this point. I'm trying to keep an eye on the taxi driver to see if he'll cut me off or let me out. He's hesitant, not on top of me, but not really leaving much room. I slip out and past the bus, where the road starts narrowing. The taxi is right on my tail, but I don't want to move in because the surface on the left is brutal. He's aggressively tight though, so I move in a bit so he can squeeze past just before we get to the Scherzer bridge.

He hasn't even fully crossed the bridge before he pops on the hazards, I feather the brakes behind, and he swings left into the George's Dock area, off the road. Clearly always his final destination, and damned if any other road users were worth thinking about on the way!

doozerie

This morning I stopped behind a minibus which itself was stopped at a red light. I could have gone round it and sat in front of it, but I could see that the other side of the junction was a mess of cars, including many in the bus lane. I didn't want to be facing into that with a minivan on my heels, so I reckoned it was better to stay behind and perhaps let the minivan muscle a gap open ahead of me.

So there I was, balancing my bike behind the minivan, leaving what I thought was insufficient space between me and the curb for a cyclist to squeeze through. Ha, such misguided optimism. The first cyclist squeezed past at speed, his concern for my welfare harder to measure even than the miniscule gap between him and me. The second cyclist was a bit slower, but equally determined, and apparently equally unconcerned about the risk of clipping me as they raced towards the red light about 4m ahead.

The third cyclist didn't make it, some part of her or her bike clobbered my left-mounted rear pannier bag. I unclipped as she wrestled to keep her bike upright. She gave me a bright cheery smile as she said "Oh, sorry". Her smile faded fast as I said "What about queueing?", it was replaced with something a lot less bright, a lot less cheery, more bunny-boiler than bunny-hugger. It was now a facial expression that said "What's YOUR problem?!", the implication being that I was the one in the wrong.

It's a depressingly common theme, people choosing to do something stupid and/or dangerous and blaming everyone else when it goes wrong. Whether it's a motorist that breaks a red light, a pedestrian that throws themselves in front of traffic in the full expectation that everything will drive or ride around them, a cyclist that throws themselves at a gap in traffic in the full expectation that people will widen the gap for them, etc., all such people are displaying a common lack of regard, disdain even, for those around them.

It's an easy club to join, just switch off your brain for a moment and you are there. Being an arsehole in all other walks of life is an advantage, it makes it that bit easier to be obnoxious and aggressive at the drop of a hat, but it's not at all necessary - you can be just lovely the rest of the time if you like, just choose not to give a toss in the moment and you can become a fully fledged member of this club. The club isn't open to everyone though, anyone can make an honest mistake and do something reckless, it's your response to the effects of that scenario that will either earn or cost you membership.

So if someone affected by your actions reacts with an "Ah, heyor!", or similar, membership is yours only if you respond with the equivalent of "Yeah. WHAT?!", or better still, "YOU WANT SOME? DO YE?". Throw in some generalisations like "You fukkin cyclists!" or "You fukkin motorists!", for added merit, but obviously be careful not to use a label that includes yourself, remember the first rule of membership of this exclusive club - that the problem is everyone else, not you, never you. You were just swinging your arms/kicking, if anyone got hit it was entirely their fault:

cjt156

I suppose she could say that another definition of being an ar$ehole is making a smart comment to some one who has just apologised to you.

brocbrocach

doozerie wrote: »

This morning I stopped behind a minibus which itself was stopped at a red light. I could have gone round it and sat in front of it, but I could see that the other side of the junction was a mess of cars, including many in the bus lane. I didn't want to be facing into that with a minivan on my heels, so I reckoned it was better to stay behind and perhaps let the minivan muscle a gap open ahead of me.

So there I was, balancing my bike behind the minivan, leaving what I thought was insufficient space between me and the curb for a cyclist to squeeze through.

Why would you not clear the gap though? You chose not to stop in front of the minivan but there's no reason why another cyclist wouldn't think it was a perfectly fine thing to do. Just going on your account I'd think you were trying to make choices for other people.

doozerie

cjt156 wrote: »

I suppose she could say that another definition of being an ar$ehole is making a smart comment to some one who has just apologised to you.

gasp ...it was you, wasn't it?...

Duckjob

Not directly cycling related but :-

The inability to apologise when clearly in the wrong is something that I see more and more on the roads (all road users being equally bad).

This morning I was in the car. Turning right off the main road into my local LIDL, it's narrowish road so I had an eye on the cars coming up from behind as well as watching for a clear gap in the oncoming traffic. My observation clearly wasn't firing as well as it should have been because halfway through my turn I had to jam on the brakes to avoid taking out a middle-aged / elderly man who had started walking across the entrance where I was turning to.

He clearly got a fright. He stopped, gave me a very unimpressed look and said something at me. I was mortified, I'm usually very careful around observant around pedestrians and cyclists and I can't remember the last time something like that happened to me.

I rolled down my window as just said "I'm so sorry about that". He continued tapping his head and saying something about me being miles away. He was right, my observation just wasnt up to scratch.

Another apology. I said, "Again, I'm so sorry. I cant defend that - it was ****e driving of the highest order".

Finally, he relented and said "Well, at least you didn't try to blame it on me". I said "How could I ? The fault was 100% mine". We parted on good terms

In the shop, I still felt bad about how bad my driving was, but at least I took solace in the fact that my reaction to it was sound. I can imagine some others that would be getting all shouty with "ahhh, could you not see I was turning in there?" and that sort of bo***x. I'm thankful is that I don't have that never-in-the-wrong, never-apologise mechanism that seems so common everywhere now.

So many unpleasant incidents on our roads could be turned into pleasant ones if people just re-learned the power of holding their hands up and saying "Sorry, I messed up".

doozerie

brocbrocach wrote: »

Why would you not clear the gap though? You chose not to stop in front of the minivan but there's no reason why another cyclist wouldn't think it was a perfectly fine thing to do. Just going on your account I'd think you were trying to make choices for other people.

Clear the gap? There was three quarters of the lane completely free to my right, plenty of space to go around me or, to use the technical term, overtake.

brocbrocach

doozerie wrote: »

Clear the gap? There was three quarters of the lane completely free to my right, plenty of space to go around me or, to use the technical term, overtake.

But you were in the space in the lane where the cyclists were going to "undertake" the minivan. It's a given that that's the cycling space, even the worst drivers usually leave it free when in traffic.

doozerie

Duckjob wrote:

So many unpleasant incidents on our roads could be turned into pleasant ones if people just re-learned the power of holding their hands up and saying "Sorry, I messed up".

Absolutely. The bit that bothers me most about situations where people refuse to take responsibility for their actions is that it suggests they might carry out that very same action next time round since they seem to see nothing wrong with it. They don't seem to want to learn from their mistakes.

We all make mistakes and it's often hard to acknowledge them, I certainly struggle with it. But if we can't or won't acknowledge them to ourselves we'll never learn from them and we'll likely repeat them again and again.

doozerie

brocbrocach wrote: »

But you were in the space in the lane where the cyclists were going to "undertake" the minivan. It's a given that that's the cycling space, even the worst drivers usually leave it free when in traffic.

I was stopped in stationary traffic, as a cyclist, in what you describe as the cycling space. I also had plenty of space to my right to overtake.

Explain to me what's wrong with that picture 'cos I'm not seeing it.