Buffalo & Doozerie - The mild musings of two grumpy old men!

buffalo

Funny one yesterday, coming from the quays heading for the Phoenix Park. Outside the Criminal Courts the right lane is full of stopped cars, so after I cross the Luas tracks I indicate right and shoulder check, and just move to the right-hand side of the left lane.

A few seconds later I get a beep from the van driver behind me, presumably because there's not enough room for him to squeeze past me on the inside. As we exchange gestures (me - wtf? shrugs, him - hand wavey get out of my way), we end missing the green.

He rolls up next to me, wanting to know why I hadn't changed lanes after I indicated right, and me explaining that I am heading right, but there's a line of stopped cars preventing me from going any further. Turns out he wanted to cut in front of said line of traffic, but my existence and presence was preventing this.

But I was delighted to be able to respond to his opener...
Him: "How many lanes do you want to be in?"
Me: "I can only be in one at a time". :pac:

doozerie

On the way to work yesterday I had a car pull out in front of me from the parking area in front of a funeral home. A (empty) hearse pulled out first, with plenty of time to spare, the car behind it stopped, the driver looked my way, presumably saw me approach but also saw the line of cars a bit further behind me (I was quicker away from the lights than they were) and decided that it was better to pull out in front of me rather than wait and get stuck behind me plus the cars. So he drove out.

He was entirely in the wrong, but his ignorant behaviour was compounded by what he was driving. A stretch "limo". I'd already stopped pedalling as I was convinced he was going to pull out. But as more and more car stretched out in front of me, sideways on, I had to go for my brakes and swing as close to the kerb as I could get.

As is so often the case in this scenario, having completed the turn the driver lost the accelerator, or the gear stick, or consciousness, perhaps all three. So the car sat there as if sighing, and saying "grand so", before starting to move on. And a longer car requires even more time to let out a longer sigh, it seems.

It's no wonder there are so few stretch limos around, evolution has meant that since cyclists generally move faster, the majority of stretch limos have long since been caught and devoured. I didn't devour it though, I'd had my breakfast already, so instead, as I passed him, I waved a hand in the air in that international expression of "What. The. Jaysus?!".

Cue a car horn beeping. I looked back to see him trying to lean through the windscreen, making a big show of his hand jerking up and down. Seemed superfluous to be honest, he was clearly a jerk, miming his condition was unnecessary. A little further on he drove past at speed, staring at me with a face that suggested terrible indigestion with a twist of heartburn. He clearly took his miming seriously, probably a graduate of advanced clown school.

A minute later I pulled up beside him as he was stopped in a line of cars at a traffic light.

Me: "You pulled out in front of me and then YOU give out to ME?"
Him: "You could have slowed down!"
Me: "I had right of way"
Him, glancing at the empty hearse ahead and his own empty car: "HAVE SOME RESPECT!"
Me, glancing at the empty hearse ahead and his own empty car: "Respect? Ha! Are you actually trying to drum up some business or what?"
Him: "GRRRR. Look at the fookin' STAY-ET OF YA!"

...this from the red-faced, clammy-skinned, overweight, imploding, angry-headed man stuck in traffic. Yeah, look at the state of me, 'cos I look pure awesome by comparison, but then anyone/anything would.

What can you do except laugh, including as he swung his car further to the left to cut me up as we started moving again. Apparently I still wasn't showing enough respect, or something, I guess he'll expect more respect if we ever meet again. Maybe by then he'll have looked up "respect" in the dictionary, probably while driving since he clearly doesn't waste his time behind the wheel with trivialities like obeying the rules of the road, observing other traffic, and generally trying not to be a knob.

magicbastarder

doozerie wrote: »

Him, glancing at the empty hearse ahead and his own empty car: "HAVE SOME RESPECT!"

god, that is brilliant.

buffalo

The complete lack of self-awareness or anticipation of some people - especially when driving - never ceases to amaze me. I'm not sure why at this point.

Coming down the north quays on a manky morning, past the Custom House and through the junction at Talbot Bridge. I'm behind a bus, there's a taxi following me.

On the other side of the junction, the bus starts indicating to pull in. I indicate to pull out around the bus - there are two lanes at this point. I'm trying to keep an eye on the taxi driver to see if he'll cut me off or let me out. He's hesitant, not on top of me, but not really leaving much room. I slip out and past the bus, where the road starts narrowing. The taxi is right on my tail, but I don't want to move in because the surface on the left is brutal. He's aggressively tight though, so I move in a bit so he can squeeze past just before we get to the Scherzer bridge.

He hasn't even fully crossed the bridge before he pops on the hazards, I feather the brakes behind, and he swings left into the George's Dock area, off the road. Clearly always his final destination, and damned if any other road users were worth thinking about on the way!

doozerie

This morning I stopped behind a minibus which itself was stopped at a red light. I could have gone round it and sat in front of it, but I could see that the other side of the junction was a mess of cars, including many in the bus lane. I didn't want to be facing into that with a minivan on my heels, so I reckoned it was better to stay behind and perhaps let the minivan muscle a gap open ahead of me.

So there I was, balancing my bike behind the minivan, leaving what I thought was insufficient space between me and the curb for a cyclist to squeeze through. Ha, such misguided optimism. The first cyclist squeezed past at speed, his concern for my welfare harder to measure even than the miniscule gap between him and me. The second cyclist was a bit slower, but equally determined, and apparently equally unconcerned about the risk of clipping me as they raced towards the red light about 4m ahead.

The third cyclist didn't make it, some part of her or her bike clobbered my left-mounted rear pannier bag. I unclipped as she wrestled to keep her bike upright. She gave me a bright cheery smile as she said "Oh, sorry". Her smile faded fast as I said "What about queueing?", it was replaced with something a lot less bright, a lot less cheery, more bunny-boiler than bunny-hugger. It was now a facial expression that said "What's YOUR problem?!", the implication being that I was the one in the wrong.

It's a depressingly common theme, people choosing to do something stupid and/or dangerous and blaming everyone else when it goes wrong. Whether it's a motorist that breaks a red light, a pedestrian that throws themselves in front of traffic in the full expectation that everything will drive or ride around them, a cyclist that throws themselves at a gap in traffic in the full expectation that people will widen the gap for them, etc., all such people are displaying a common lack of regard, disdain even, for those around them.

It's an easy club to join, just switch off your brain for a moment and you are there. Being an arsehole in all other walks of life is an advantage, it makes it that bit easier to be obnoxious and aggressive at the drop of a hat, but it's not at all necessary - you can be just lovely the rest of the time if you like, just choose not to give a toss in the moment and you can become a fully fledged member of this club. The club isn't open to everyone though, anyone can make an honest mistake and do something reckless, it's your response to the effects of that scenario that will either earn or cost you membership.

So if someone affected by your actions reacts with an "Ah, heyor!", or similar, membership is yours only if you respond with the equivalent of "Yeah. WHAT?!", or better still, "YOU WANT SOME? DO YE?". Throw in some generalisations like "You fukkin cyclists!" or "You fukkin motorists!", for added merit, but obviously be careful not to use a label that includes yourself, remember the first rule of membership of this exclusive club - that the problem is everyone else, not you, never you. You were just swinging your arms/kicking, if anyone got hit it was entirely their fault:

cjt156

I suppose she could say that another definition of being an ar$ehole is making a smart comment to some one who has just apologised to you.

brocbrocach

doozerie wrote: »

This morning I stopped behind a minibus which itself was stopped at a red light. I could have gone round it and sat in front of it, but I could see that the other side of the junction was a mess of cars, including many in the bus lane. I didn't want to be facing into that with a minivan on my heels, so I reckoned it was better to stay behind and perhaps let the minivan muscle a gap open ahead of me.

So there I was, balancing my bike behind the minivan, leaving what I thought was insufficient space between me and the curb for a cyclist to squeeze through.

Why would you not clear the gap though? You chose not to stop in front of the minivan but there's no reason why another cyclist wouldn't think it was a perfectly fine thing to do. Just going on your account I'd think you were trying to make choices for other people.

doozerie

cjt156 wrote: »

I suppose she could say that another definition of being an ar$ehole is making a smart comment to some one who has just apologised to you.

gasp ...it was you, wasn't it?...

Duckjob

Not directly cycling related but :-

The inability to apologise when clearly in the wrong is something that I see more and more on the roads (all road users being equally bad).

This morning I was in the car. Turning right off the main road into my local LIDL, it's narrowish road so I had an eye on the cars coming up from behind as well as watching for a clear gap in the oncoming traffic. My observation clearly wasn't firing as well as it should have been because halfway through my turn I had to jam on the brakes to avoid taking out a middle-aged / elderly man who had started walking across the entrance where I was turning to.

He clearly got a fright. He stopped, gave me a very unimpressed look and said something at me. I was mortified, I'm usually very careful around observant around pedestrians and cyclists and I can't remember the last time something like that happened to me.

I rolled down my window as just said "I'm so sorry about that". He continued tapping his head and saying something about me being miles away. He was right, my observation just wasnt up to scratch.

Another apology. I said, "Again, I'm so sorry. I cant defend that - it was ****e driving of the highest order".

Finally, he relented and said "Well, at least you didn't try to blame it on me". I said "How could I ? The fault was 100% mine". We parted on good terms

In the shop, I still felt bad about how bad my driving was, but at least I took solace in the fact that my reaction to it was sound. I can imagine some others that would be getting all shouty with "ahhh, could you not see I was turning in there?" and that sort of bo***x. I'm thankful is that I don't have that never-in-the-wrong, never-apologise mechanism that seems so common everywhere now.

So many unpleasant incidents on our roads could be turned into pleasant ones if people just re-learned the power of holding their hands up and saying "Sorry, I messed up".

doozerie

brocbrocach wrote: »

Why would you not clear the gap though? You chose not to stop in front of the minivan but there's no reason why another cyclist wouldn't think it was a perfectly fine thing to do. Just going on your account I'd think you were trying to make choices for other people.

Clear the gap? There was three quarters of the lane completely free to my right, plenty of space to go around me or, to use the technical term, overtake.

brocbrocach

doozerie wrote: »

Clear the gap? There was three quarters of the lane completely free to my right, plenty of space to go around me or, to use the technical term, overtake.

But you were in the space in the lane where the cyclists were going to "undertake" the minivan. It's a given that that's the cycling space, even the worst drivers usually leave it free when in traffic.

doozerie

Duckjob wrote:

So many unpleasant incidents on our roads could be turned into pleasant ones if people just re-learned the power of holding their hands up and saying "Sorry, I messed up".

Absolutely. The bit that bothers me most about situations where people refuse to take responsibility for their actions is that it suggests they might carry out that very same action next time round since they seem to see nothing wrong with it. They don't seem to want to learn from their mistakes.

We all make mistakes and it's often hard to acknowledge them, I certainly struggle with it. But if we can't or won't acknowledge them to ourselves we'll never learn from them and we'll likely repeat them again and again.

doozerie

brocbrocach wrote: »

But you were in the space in the lane where the cyclists were going to "undertake" the minivan. It's a given that that's the cycling space, even the worst drivers usually leave it free when in traffic.

I was stopped in stationary traffic, as a cyclist, in what you describe as the cycling space. I also had plenty of space to my right to overtake.

Explain to me what's wrong with that picture 'cos I'm not seeing it.

RayCun

brocbrocach wrote: »

Just going on your account I'd think you were trying to make choices for other people.

Any time a motorist decides not to drive into the middle of a junction because the exit is not free, they are making choices for the motorists behind.
Any time someone stops at a red light and blocks the lane they are making choices for the people behind.

brocbrocach

doozerie wrote: »

I was stopped in stationary traffic, as a cyclist, in what you describe as the cycling space. I also had plenty of space to my right to overtake.

Explain to me what's wrong with that picture 'cos I'm not seeing it.

The cyclists coming behind you would have to leave the cycling space, go into the cary part of the lane to overtake you and then pull sharply left to undertake the minivan. If you'd pulled right to take the full lane while stationary then the cyclists could continue along by the kerb to the swarming point.

As it was can you not see how you were being an obstacle in the lane?

magicbastarder

in the past, i have stopped behind HGVs, rather than go up their inside, and cyclists have passed me out to do so anyway.
the notion that i may have been inadvertently blocking them is a little weird.

brocbrocach

What's weird about it? If you're not advancing in the lane take yourself off to the side. The boul doozerie seems to have left (tight) space for a cyclist to his left, say a metre?, and just parked himself where it was hard to go around him. Obviously he's a capable cyclist and probably right to not undertake but it's not his call to block everyone else. Imagine the chaos if every db bike-man suddenly decided to regulate the traffic behind him.

doozerie

brocbrocach wrote: »

What's weird about it? If you're not advancing in the lane take yourself off to the side. The boul doozerie seems to have left (tight) space for a cyclist to his left, say a metre?, and just parked himself where it was hard to go around him. Obviously he's a capable cyclist and probably right to not undertake but it's not his call to block everyone else. Imagine the chaos if every db bike-man suddenly decided to regulate the traffic behind him.

Your logic is flawed. Traffic in the lane (a bus lane in this case) was stopped, the stopped minibus was evidence of that. I was also in the lane. I was traffic. I stopped. That's how traffic works.

Cyclists behind me chose not to stop, that was their choice. I don't care. What I care about was how to chose to get past me. They could easily have overtaken me, but didn't, instead they shoved through on my inside. I cared about that because it has an impact on me.

I didn't "block them", I didn't decide I wanted to block them, I didn't "regulate" them (not even Warren G -style) . I could have pulled further right in the lane, and put myself squarely in front of the next car or bus that pulled up behind, but I didn't because I didn't consider that as safe for me as where I did stop.

You seem to think that my stopping in a lane of stopped traffic is the equivalent of my setting up a border control in a cycle lane. One of these things is not like the other.

Chips Lovell

Nobody has a god-given right to overtake. If there is no room to safely overtake, you wait until there is an opportunity to do so. You don't just barge through regardless.

On the same subject, I inadvertently clattered another cyclist two weeks ago. Was stopped at the lights, they turned green. I put my hand out to signal I was turning left, and struck a chap barreling through on the inside. He wobbled, but stayed up.

brocbrocach

doozerie wrote: »

I was traffic. I stopped. That's how traffic works.

Cyclists behind me chose not to stop, that was their choice. I don't care.

See that, right there, is the problem with society today!

Sure going by that logic every car that qeues at a set of lights could just hug the kerb and block the bike traffic that otherwise would filter through. They're stopped. That's how traffic works.

I don't really know who's right by law as filtering is a grey area but no one cycles in a city without filtering so you will benefit from the good manners of motorists every time you pass on the left. You had one chance to pass on the good karma and you let it slip.

brocbrocach

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Nobody has a god-given right to overtake. If there is no room to safely overtake, you wait until there is an opportunity to do so. You don't just barge through regardless.

True enough. But it's good manners to drive or cycle in such a way as to let others overtake if they can and it's safe to.

doozerie

Chips Lovell wrote: »

On the same subject, I inadvertently clattered another cyclist two weeks ago. Was stopped at the lights, they turned green. I put my hand out to signal I was turning left, and struck a chap barreling through on the inside. He wobbled, but stayed up.

I'm picturing this now, but a back-handed clothesline which is apparently too awesome to have been captured by the Internet:



Not sure about the yellow lycra though, an intervention may be needed there.

brocbrocach

Good tan lines though

doozerie

brocbrocach wrote:

But it's good manners to drive or cycle in such a way as to let others overtake if they can and it's safe to.

I did exactly that. And yet...:

brocbrocach wrote: »

See that, right there, is the problem with society today!

Sure going by that logic every car that qeues at a set of lights could just hug the kerb and block the bike traffic that otherwise would filter through. They're stopped. That's how traffic works.

I don't really know who's right by law as filtering is a grey area but no one cycles in a city without filtering so you will benefit from the good manners of motorists every time you pass on the left. You had one chance to pass on the good karma and you let it slip.

brocbrocach

Everyone knows undertake is overtake in commuter-speak. It's like cool is hot etc

buffalo

The tone for today's commute was set with a close pass about 100m from my house - a stretch which has been artificially narrowed for traffic calming, and the token cycle track on the footpath which loses priority at every side road and estate entrance, and doesn't even have dished ramps at those points.

The repressed cyclist in me of course still feels guilty for not using it and holding up traffic (I know, I know), so I have a tendency to try push it to 40kph along this stretch. Wasn't enough for the big orange SUV driver, who sat behind me revving loudly until he decided to just bully his way past. I was not willing to put myself under his wheels to prove a point.

Next was an overtake while entering a roundabout. I should've taken the lane probably, but then there was enough room for us both to get around on the actual roundabout itself. I noticed that not once did the driver check his mirrors or check to see where I was.

Then there was the lad at the top of the queue at the bridge at Lucan. I was filtering up on the right and got to the top just as the lights went green. No indicator, no mirror or blindspot check, just swung across the road, blinking into the rising sun. As an experienced cyclist, this sort of stuff is an occupational hazard, but it would've been so simple just to flick on an indicator. Especially when you've been sitting waiting for the last two minutes.

Two close passes on the Strawberry Beds, including one from a small van as we approached the ramped section. So I end up yo-yoing off his back bumper, occasionally yelling 'faster! faster!' Not the most sound thing I've done, I'll admit, but maybe he'll think twice about just blasting past in future. After a while he stopped with his window down, I think he wanted a 'chat', but I just zipped past him. He left plenty of space on the next overtake.

Lastly at the Knockmaroon gate of the Phoenix Park, shout out to the driver who turned in to the entrance, realised it was closed, and then swung a U-turn back out through the red light and across the junction while the rest of us were trying to cross through it.

Was it just me this morning?

JMcL

buffalo wrote: »

Was it just me this morning?

I personally think close passes have upped in frequency. Rare is the day at the moment when I don't have at least one on my to or from work. I'm in Waterford, not Dublin and about half the commute is on the dual carriageway ring road which while it possesses a "cycle track" said track is a shared use yoke on one side of the road only with no demarcation for pedestrians/cyclists and give way at the frequent roundabouts - all in all as useful as a chocolate teapot.

In the past week alone I've had close passes from:

* A tipper truck - about 1m away at full speed
* A cement mixes - see above
* Boxed in on two occasions on a roundabout by artics - me about 20m from roundabout; taking the left lane - they straddle the lanes and bully their way through, no option but pull over and let them go
* 2 x cockwombles who both absolutely had to overtake me to join the lengthy tailback at the bottom of a steep hill in the left lane, despite me making it plain I was trying to move to the right lane to turn right. Audi man came within a meter at full speed while pulling in on top of me at the same time

More commonly it's the usual nonsense about drivers not being arsed leaving their own lane with an empty lane beside them, or them being overtaken but barreling on through anyway.

I don't know whether this is in any way causally linked to Ross's (speaking of chocolate teapots) craven climbdown on the MPDL which got a fair amount of publicity, or just increased levels of traffic. Meaningful education for drivers is the only solution, but this doesn't even happen from what I can see on the one time in their lives when they do get instruction, and with the current reluctance to enforce/punish poor driver behaviour, never mind have them sit a retest (should be mandatory whenever a license has been lost for whatever reason), it won't happen again. Irish roads and indeed the road traffic act have changed greatly since I first got my license in the late 80s, but how many people actually even bother looking at the Rules of the Road never mind the underlying legislation as soon as they get on the road

doozerie

JMcL wrote:

Meaningful education for drivers is the only solution, but this doesn't even happen from what I can see on the one time in their lives when they *do* get instruction, and with the current reluctance to enforce/punish poor driver behaviour, never mind have them sit a retest (should be mandatory whenever a license has been lost for whatever reason), it won't happen again.

This thinking is what I keep coming back to time and again too. Education is typically the last thing I want to impart to a driver who has just put my life in danger in order that they (usually fail to) shave a few seconds off their journey. In the heat of that kind of moment I'd much prefer to impart a bucket load of frustration and anger, but no matter how justified that would be, all too often it will have the opposite affect of educating them about the potential consequences of their actions.

The worst offenders are essentially like children, yell at them and they'll dig their heels in and persist with the same behaviour again and again, educate them instead and there is at least a chance that their behaviour will improve. The lack of a real threat of punishment is a huge problem too, of course, for some people that's the only thing that would moderate their behaviour.

I encountered yet another example of the irrational nature of people at the weekend. There was another cyclist in the oncoming lane, just me cycling in my lane. An SUV behind the other cyclist drove into my lane to overtake him, my being there was no deterrent whatsoever. I waved a hand in the air in that universal expression of "What. The. ....?". The driver completely ignored me but the person in the passenger seat started gesticulating wildly at me.

I'm not sure who was worse, the driver that made a conscious decision to overtake when it wasn't safe (for me) to do so, and then refused to even acknowledge their actions. Or the passenger who witnessed this behaviour and then got offended on behalf of the driver, to the point of basically categorising me as the problem. Neither person would appear to have an ounce of understanding of the reality of the situation, their sense of personal safety was never threatened and they either didn't understand or care that mine was. My guess is they'd both do the same thing again and again because of their pure ignorance and complete lack of empathy. I like to think that education would address that, that it might break through their self-serving cocoon (...although I'd still like to precede it with a hefty kick up the hole for both of them, I must admit).

Leroy42

It all stems from the creation of driving as something personal, a time for you to be you. To express yourself. To be in control. It is at the core of all motor ads, but is the dominant theme when you discuss driving with anyone. People take driving very personally, thus they they people that get in the way, in the cases of this thread cyclists, as a personal affront to them. The "offender" has taken an action to deliberately curtail their enjoyment, their work, their time.

As long as we continue to view driving as some sort of personal past-time, rather than a social interaction and simply a means to an end, the problems discussed throughout this thread will continue.

"You are in my way, you are slowing me down, you are taking up too much space on my lane" are all common remarks and they show a level of arrogance and expectation.

One way that I have started to move the conversations when they inevitably turn to how cyclists are ruining everything for everybody, is to ask the person raising the point how often they needed to wait for a person illegally parked. Or not paying attention when the light turn. Or three point turns. Or simply having to give way as the road has cars parked and not wide enough. Or people going into yellow boxes to block the traffic? Or taxis pulling in to pick up or drop off when there is no room to pass.

When you start to add all these up they soon realise that the real problems are other vehicles. Sure bikes cause them a problem, but nothing even close to the time wasted from the above.

ChrisJ84

JMcL wrote: »

Meaningful education for drivers is the only solution, but this doesn't even happen from what I can see on the one time in their lives when they do get instruction, and with the current reluctance to enforce/punish poor driver behaviour, never mind have them sit a retest (should be mandatory whenever a license has been lost for whatever reason), it won't happen again.

I've been close passed recently by a couple of learner drivers out on lessons. If driving instructors aren't even teaching or enforcing good behaviour then it's no wonder this stuff happens so frequently.