Its my statue, my town.. Cllr J Gilligan

phog

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Whatever about the kids, but he was certainly aggressive towards the adults. Just after 1:20 on the video he gets right in the face of the camera-man, pointing his finger and quoting his title as Councillor. He then incorrectly accuses them all of vandalism.

Around the 01:30 mark he walks up as close to the second man a he could possibly get without physically touching him. He says he can "track them down". That's a fairly menacing thing to say to a total stranger at the side of the road.

"Incorrectly accuses them of vandalism" It's easy to say that now because we all know they were making a movie but as a passer at the time and by what he saw what was he to think? He seems to state that he saw them jumping on the statue, I'd have thought the same that were messing about.

He then spends 3 minutes repeating "Stay off the statue" as if it's his own property.

How in all fairness does this in any way imply that the statue was his property. Aside from some obvious risks, what is wrong with a member of public telling someone not to mess around with a monument? What about our civic duty or are we all to turn blind eyes now.

Swiper the fox

ZombieBride wrote: »

What I can't figure out is if these guys were so aggrieved why did they wait until the day before yesterday to publish this video while the original promo was published in June. Reeks of a publicity stunt to me.

A publicity stunt that has gone badly wrong in my opinion, mainly because you can argue the rights and wrongs of Gilligans actions all day long but the behaviour of the English guy and the young fellas was nothing short of disgraceful.

liammur

D1stant wrote: »

I dont know anything about Gilligan, but I dont see anything in the video to warrant him resigning

He thought they were abusing the statue. He got the wrong end of the stick. Big deal

And I dont think there is anything backward with him trying to defend public property. He was a bit pompous about it but at least he had the bottle to face them on it.

I agree, I think there is a complete overreaction to this on this thread, and I'm in no way a supporter of him.

Insect Overlord

phog wrote: »

as a passer at the time and by what he saw what was he to think? He seems to state that he saw them jumping on the statue, I'd have thought the same that were messing about.

Why would a group of young people carry a video camera around to film themselves vandalising statues? It should have been obvious from the outset that they weren't out to do anything dodgy.

blatantrereg

It's the same attitude you see in a lot of the establishment in Limerick.
There was that "Limerick Businesses against graffitti" that whitewashed over artistic graffitti in the skateboard park just across the road from there.
Then there are the guards who will take half an hour plus to respond to violent crime in progress right on their doorstep, but who shout at young kids for running.
That statue is at the edge of what became a bad area after Dell closed. There had been a big Polish community, who were quiet and family-oriented. Most of them left and plenty of dodgy types moved in. At least one of the apartment blocks is known to contain brothels now. I lived in one of them for years. Remember a guy being knocked unconscious on the street outside, an incidence of kidnapping (by family members), a woman being mugged, and an awful lot of general scumbaggery.
But I guess those things were happening away from any monuments or well-to-do areas like they were supposed to, so it was all ok.
These cheeky dancers mind. I ask you.

leakyboots

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Why would a group of young people carry a video camera around to film themselves vandalising statues? It should have been obvious from the outset that they weren't out to do anything dodgy.

?? I'd say videos of people vandalising and breaking stuff goes up every single day on YouTube.

Fair play to Gilligan. You're damned if you speak up, you're damned if you don't.

D1stant

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Why would a group of young people carry a video camera around to film themselves vandalising statues? It should have been obvious from the outset that they weren't out to do anything dodgy.

I'm not sure I follow your logic

Video camera (was it just a phone?) = legit behaviour?

Thats why there are no youtube clips of fights, joyriding, vandalism etc

Gilligans reaction was understandable and admirable in many ways. His execution let him down, but the lads didn't exactly shine either

langdang

leakyboots wrote: »

?? I'd say videos of people vandalising and breaking stuff goes up every single day on YouTube.

Dude, you're so establishment, it's "performance art" bacause they say it is :rolleyes:

I agree, - better to challenge someone on behaviour like this and be wrong, than to say "ah well, that's someone elses call"

Insect Overlord

langdang wrote: »

I agree, - better to challenge someone on behaviour like this and be wrong, than to say "ah well, that's someone elses call"

What, challenge people for making a short promo video for their dance-group? That kind of behaviour? Actively doing something constructive with their time, energy and city environs?

It's like the Sandford Neighbourhood Watch Alliance in here. "If we don't come down hard on these clowns, we are going to be up to our balls in jugglers!" Bonum commune communitatis...

Kess73

D1stant wrote: »

I'm not sure I follow your logic

Video camera (was it just a phone?) = legit behaviour?

Thats why there are no youtube clips of fights, joyriding, vandalism etc

Gilligans reaction was understandable and admirable in many ways. His execution let him down, but the lads didn't exactly shine either

In the video Gilligan claims to be aware of the festival that the guys are filming for, and they tried a number of times to tell him what it was for before he actually calmed down enough to listen.


The video they were shooting and the festival was part funded by Limerick City Council so they were hardly a bunch of random lads filming for the craic.

The finished video was supposed to show Limerick in a positive light, and highlight some well known spoits/landmarks. Maybe it could be argued that the video in the first post in this thread paints a more accurate picture of Limerick, at political level at least, as it certainly helps to strengthen a few stereotypes that the media likes to play up on.

"You people" indeed.

langdang

Insect Overlord wrote: »

What, challenge people for making a short promo video for their dance-group? That kind of behaviour? Actively doing something constructive with their time, energy and city environs?

You're offering your car for my gangnam style youtube spoof? daycent kid.

Edit - as you've thanked my post, I'll expand a little on my initial smart-arsey response!
"this behaviour" should be construed as any type of carry on you don't feel is appropriate for your society/area.
Swinging off monuments fits into this category for me and it looks like it did for Mr. Gilligan too.
Now, there's a happy medium there too, you can swing too far in that direction too.

But if they are "free to express themselves" through dancing on public monuments, is Mr. Gilligan not "free to express himself" through the medium of telling them to cop on, grow up and stop dancing on public monuments?

I think the thought process of "if that was my X, would I be happy with people doing Y to it" is a good guide for how you should treat anything not belonging to you. I'm not even that old...

feel free to remove the thanks if you want!

liammur

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Why would a group of young people carry a video camera around to film themselves vandalising statues? It should have been obvious from the outset that they weren't out to do anything dodgy.

I've deleted my post as I was unaware of all the facts as I only watched the first 2 minutes of that clip. Initially I was siding with Gilligan as I felt even though the people involved were up to no harm, if 1 of them fell would the council be in for a bill etc. Now however, I believe he over-reacted.

phog

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Why would a group of young people carry a video camera around to film themselves vandalising statues? It should have been obvious from the outset that they weren't out to do anything dodgy.

I don't know but I'm sure we've all seen crazy stuff on YouTube and would wonder what sort of brainless people were filming their antics. Hadn't we some guys near Nenagh filming their antics in a car about a year ago and we had the travelllers on the Cork road recently.

Or to be really off the wall and take your point to the limit then you could "pretend" to be recording your vandalism so the a concerned citizen would continue on their merry ways and let you get on with your stupid antics.

In this case it seemed to me that Gilligan didn't realise that they were filming the event until after his intervention.

john_cappa

Gilligan misinterpreted what was going on and they tried their best to make a big deal out of it. Is it a surprise he thought they were up to no good given all the recent reports about vandalizing monuments and graffiti or "tagging".

http://www.limerickleader.ie/community/community-news/vandalised-county-limerick-statue-is-returned-to-its-plinth-1-4213446

http://theirishworld.com/newsbrilast/7015-Tarris%20statue%20vandalised%20in%20Limerick

http://www.limerickleader.ie/community/vandalised-monument-returns-to-limerick-city-church-1-3140737

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local/youths-asked-to-repaint-vandalised-statue-1-2995294

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local/calls-for-monitored-cctv-in-newcastle-west-after-vandalism-of-statue-1-3952944

The real problem here is he is a politician and they are the root of all evil.

Insect Overlord

langdang wrote: »

You're offering your car for my gangnam style youtube spoof? daycent kid.

I thanked it because the mental image of PSI dancing Gangnam style on my mother's car is actually pretty funny! :pac:

langdang wrote: »

I think the thought process of "if that was my X, would I be happy with people doing Y to it" is a good guide for how you should treat anything not belonging to you. I'm not even that old...

I agree with you there. I wouldn't want people swinging and jumping up and down on my house. I made up my mind about this case after watching the video in full though.

Check out the last 5 seconds or so of the video. The kid just steps up on one side and lands on the other and jogs on again. Most of us would do the same thing retrieving a football from a neighbour's garden, no harm done. That's how I'm looking at it.

Itsdacraic

Insect Overlord wrote: »

What, challenge people for making a short promo video for their dance-group? That kind of behaviour? Actively doing something constructive with their time, energy and city environs?

Again, how had he any way of knowing they were making a "promo" video?

The guys in the video even says they needed to get the shots from a number of angles which would indicate they jumped on and off the statue more than once.

If they were making a serious production how hard would it have been to put a sign up "Filming in Progress".

Insect Overlord

john_cappa wrote: »

The real problem here is he is a politician and they are the root of all evil.

The real problem here is his atrocious attempt to resolve the issue. A man of the people should be able to judge his interjections far more succinctly.

Swiper the fox

Insect Overlord wrote: »

The real problem here is his atrocious attempt to resolve the issue. A man of the people should be able to judge his interjections far more succinctly.

Do you believe that everyone else in the video was blameless, would you agree that there was a certain level of goading involved?

celticcrash

Insect Overlord wrote: »

The real problem here is his atrocious attempt to resolve the issue. A man of the people should be able to judge his interjections far more succinctly.

Did you forget about the Englishman in the wifebeater dancing on the monument and than roaring at a representative of the people of Limerick.
I suppose thats ok in your book.

langdang

Insect Overlord wrote: »

I thanked it because the mental image of PSI dancing Gangnam style on my mother's car is actually pretty funny! :pac

You'd be disappointed and slightly disturbed by my efforts so. :pac:
But hey, it's art innit < I mean that in a "look, we'll agree to disagree on this" way, rather than a parting shot to stir things before I vacate this thread.

Insect Overlord

Swiper the fox wrote: »

Do you believe that everyone else in the video was blameless, would you agree that there was a certain level of goading involved?

I would agree with you. Nobody comes out of the video looking blameless. One would expect the experienced, elected public representative to make a much better effort though, compared to a few giddy teenagers and their aggrieved dance leaders.

celticcrash wrote: »

I suppose thats ok in your book.

Not sure why you're trying to make this personal. I never once said I was okay with the shows of aggression in the video. You'll note that I frequently remind posters to be civil on the forum. I try to apply a similar approach to dealings in the real world too.

langdang wrote: »

< I mean that in a "look, we'll agree to disagree on this" way, rather than a parting shot to stir things before I vacate this thread.

Cheers. Makes two of us! I'll just be going round in circles if I keep replying to everything here.

phog

Insect Overlord wrote: »

I thanked it because the mental image of PSI dancing Gangnam style on my mother's car is actually pretty funny! :pac:



I agree with you there. I wouldn't want people swinging and jumping up and down on my house. I made up my mind about this case after watching the video in full though. Check out the last 5 seconds or so of the video. The kid just steps up on one side and lands on the other and jogs on again. Most of us would do the same thing retrieving a football from a neighbour's garden, no harm done. That's how I'm looking at it.

You mean you made up your mind after watching their video that may or may not have been edited. Do any of us know what Gilliagn actually saw that prompted his outrage?

db

Fair play to Gilligan for standing up to these guys. If they were serious about making this video they should have cleared it with the council before messing around on the statue. I thought the discussion with the first guy was reasonable but after the second guy with the English accent got involved he was only interested in aggravating the situation.

Kess73

db wrote: »

Fair play to Gilligan for standing up to these guys. If they were serious about making this video they should have cleared it with the council before messing around on the statue. I thought the discussion with the first guy was reasonable but after the second guy with the English accent got involved he was only interested in aggravating the situation.

Limerick City Council were one of the organisations funding the video. The link to the festival's site has been put up a few times in this thread and it is clearly stated who was involved with the project and it's finding.

Would seem quite odd if Limerick City Council agreed to give fiunding towards something and not have any idea what the filming involved or what locations were to be used.

Kess73

celticcrash wrote: »

Did you forget about the Englishman in the wifebeater dancing on the monument and than roaring at a representative of the people of Limerick.
I suppose thats ok in your book.

Care to show us a picture or a link to the "the Englishman in the wifebeater dancing on the monument" or are you just making that up?


The kid who went over the monument was Irish. He is one of the kids that took part in the dance school/project.

Did not hear much roaring from the "Englishman" in the video either, but heard quite a bit of rambling from a public figure that is supposedly well versed in dealing with the public. Maybe shouting the odds and making threats is how things get done in City Hall in which case Gilligan was just showing the correct way for a Limerick politician to communicate.

Wilbert13

The main guy in the video was in a Rubberbandits video - intimidating russian with a fake tattoo

Swiper the fox

Kess73 wrote: »

Care to show us a picture or a link to the "the Englishman in the wifebeater dancing on the monument" or are you just making that up?


The kid who went over the monument was Irish. He is one of the kids that took part in the dance school/project.

Did not hear much roaring from the "Englishman" in the video either, but heard quite a bit of rambling from a public figure that is supposedly well versed in dealing with the public. Maybe shouting the odds and making threats is how things get done in City Hall in which case Gilligan was just showing the correct way for a Limerick politician to communicate.

Whether you consider it roaring or not is subjective I suppose but you cannot be suggesting that he acted in a reasonable manner, are you? Do you consider his attitude and actions acceptable or admirable? There are rights and wrongs on both sides but i'd be a lot more embarrased to be related to him having seen it.

zuroph

Why is being English anything to do with it? I'm from Clare, am I not allowed be proud of Limerick? Last year for the promo shoot for outbreak, we climbed 15 zombies on the treaty stone and later the statue of Richard Harris.nothing was damaged, and we gained national press coverage displaying the city in a positive light, bringing in tourists, and even getting a great mention on the late late.we raised a lot of money for charity, and lots of people enjoyed a feast weekend. Make a move was similar, and Gilligan would do well to be friendlier in his approach.

LK_Dave

DICTATOR OF LIMERICK CITY BANS DANCE.

Down with that sort of thing.

Beaver1

theres a right day and a wrong way to approach people, Gilligan done it the wrong way and if he was in clohessys I'm sure he wasn't drinking tea but then again maybe he was.