Formula E

Cookie_Monster

Will it work???

The format sounds a bit silly, stopping and sprinting to your next car halfway through... And obviously it'll have to comete with F1 for viewership, would make an interesting watch for alternate weekends though

Motor racing is set for an electric makeover in which a new generation of cars will speed at 220km/h around urban racetracks - until their batteries run out.

Alejandro Agag, CEO of Formula E Holdings, says the global championship, authorised by motorsport's governing body the Federation Internationale de l'Automobile, will help finally make electric cars popular.

"That is one of our main objectives: to change perceptions of people about electric cars if we manage to have a championship that is sexy, that people like, that they see people racing without breaking down," he says.

Formula E is planned to start in 2014 with 10 races worldwide between about May and November.

Organisers hope all the races will be in city centres, potentially stretching from European capitals like Paris, London and Rome to more far-flung locales like Moscow, Beijing, Sydney and even Morocco's ancient city of Marrakech.

Rio de Janeiro is the first city to come on board.

Agag says he wants races inside cities partly for the spectacle and partly to exploit what he says is a major advantage of the electric cars over Formula One's scream machines: relative quiet.

The big unknown is whether racing fans - who generally thrive on Formula One's extremes of speed and noise - will embrace Formula E.

The prototype vehicle developed by France's Formulec has a top speed of 220km/h and accelerates from zero to 100 km/h in three seconds.

The most crucial statistic, though, is battery life: 25 minutes. That means that instead of Formula One's pit stop ballet of tyre changes, Formula E drivers will change batteries. Or, rather, they'll hop out of their cars halfway into the one-hour race and get into others.

To make things more interesting, the second car will be waiting 100m away. "The drivers will have to race. It will be very spectacular on television," Agag says.

Tyre changes, which Agag criticised as environmentally unfriendly, won't take place at all.

At the end of 10 races there'll be a champion, while each race winner stands to get about €400,000 ($625,000) in prize money.

Agag says he hopes traditional racing teams - McLaren has already expressed interest - will be joined by big brands such as Google or Coca-Cola, as well as electric car companies, in forming the 10 teams.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/news/article.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=10836369

LaminatorSGL

Sounds silly in my opinion. But I do think more effort needs to be put into electric/hybrid technology and racing, so this is a good start I guess. Will really need to adjust to the lack of noise, should take away from the spectacle a lot I imagine.

Myrddin

So it'd be like watching a slower, shorter version of F1 with your tv muted? Sounds wild :rolleyes:

All this environmentalism horsespoo needs to die in a fire, this is motorsport for God sake...its meant to be noisy, fast, & exciting...

hardCopy

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Wouldn't be my cup of team to be honest. I am really surprised the FIA lets the drivers run to the cars. They banned them doing it in Lemans 24hr`s after people were crashing and dying due to them not putting on there belts to save time.

I'm sure it would be trivial to disable the 'ignition'/go-button until the belt is engaged.

ScumLord

I don't see why they have to go away from a standard race format. What they could be capable of with electric cars could make them very interesting to watch. They could do things like have a motor on each wheel.

The Israelis are also working on a battery replacement stations where you just drive up and the battery is popped out and replaced automatically so pit stops could be automated.

It could be a real showcase for what's possible with new electronics. If they could pilot the cars remotely they could even let the cars do ridiculous speeds without the worries for driver safety.

I don't like the idea of racing in cities either, I think that could doom it to failure with locals getting real sick of having their cities shut down for a spectacle that isn't even real racing.

Myrddin

ScumLord wrote: »

If they could pilot the cars remotely they could even let the cars do ridiculous speeds without the worries for driver safety

Not related to Bernie at all are you?

Sheeps

i would watch it. i think the technical race would be interesting as well. could see a lot of advantages to f1 teams and manufacturers getting involved if it provides them with another avenue for improving their hybrid technology.

Charlie-Bravo

Less than a year now for this to start. 6 teams confirmed so says the Formula E website but I count 7 on their list of teams: Source

Drayson Racing Formula E
Key Personnel: Lord Paul Drayson, CEO & Team Principal
Gian Avignone, Partnership Development Director

Andretti Autosport
Key Personnel: Michael Andretti, President, Chairman and CEO
JF Thorman, Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer
John Lopes, Senior Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer
Kyle Moyer, Director of Racing Operations

Dragon Racing
Jay Penske, Owner and President
Paul Woolnough, Vice President

e.dams French team and not to be confused with Dutch cheese
Key Personnel:Jean-Paul Driot, Co-founder
Alain Prost, Co-founder

China Racing Formula E
Key Personnel: Steven Lu, CEO;
Yu Liu, Chairman

Super Aguri Formula E
Key Personnel: Aguri Suzuki, Executive Chairman
Mark Preston, Team Principal
Peter McCool, Technical Director
Ferry Spijkerman, Commercial Director

Audi Sport ABT Formula E Team
Key Personnel: Team Principal Hans-Jürgen Abt

Some big names in there. Great to see Super Aguri back in the fold of single seaters (Not that I know of them currently running in a different race series). Its also nice to see a couple of US teams in the mix. But again, the race series is suppose to be designed to reduce costs; no tyre changes during races. Each driver has two cars though. Must look into this more and find out how the race works and how the championship points work.

Zcott

I give it a few years before it goes the way of A1GP.

ZiabR

LaminatorSGL wrote: »

Sounds silly in my opinion. But I do think more effort needs to be put into electric/hybrid technology and racing, so this is a good start I guess. Will really need to adjust to the lack of noise, should take away from the spectacle a lot I imagine.

It is a major or at lease becoming a major part of the 24 hour Le Mans so I agree, that an effort is needed to bring electric/hybrid technology into racing. However, it is not my cup of tea. F1 made KERS compulsory 2 years ago and this is seen as a hybrid tech because only 80% of the power comes from the power plant, the rest essentially comes from batteries. I don't mind KERS, but I believe that this is where it needs to stop in F1.

v10

Jaysus I dunno, sounds like a toy car ...

ZiabR

Not liking that.

ScumLord

Zcott wrote: »

I give it a few years before it goes the way of A1GP.

The major difference is electric is the way of the future, in a few years time more of us will be driving electrics and the E formula will become much more relevant to the general public.

This video shows the potential of electric cars. They are the future.

PopePalpatine

I have high hopes for Formula E, if the technology used trickles down into road cars.

v10

ScumLord wrote: »

The major difference is electric is the way of the future, in a few years time more of us will be driving electrics and the E formula will become much more relevant to the general public.

This video shows the potential of electric cars. They are the future.

I don't doubt electric cars are the future but I don't know how appealing they will be to watch race in this format. Look at all the concern about next years F1 engines (1.6 V6 turbos). The manufacturers promising that they will be just as noisy so fans won't be turned off. Then you have this, with virtually no sound :eek:

Charlie-Bravo

They do have a sound - but its ear piercingly high pitched like a sup'd up radio controlled car.

Myrddin

No sense of excitement, adrenaline, being on the limit, or anything at all in fact. If this is the future of motorsport, stop the bus, I want off. I'll happily immerse myself in the F1 season reviews over this

Charlie-Bravo

As much as I am listening to the comments I am reserving judgement. I like the watching racing, and if this can produce decent races, then I will watch it. Still waiting to see what the format is like.

Jordan 199

Formula E - shocking stuff

ScumLord

v10 wrote: »

I don't doubt electric cars are the future but I don't know how appealing they will be to watch race in this format. Look at all the concern about next years F1 engines (1.6 V6 turbos). The manufacturers promising that they will be just as noisy so fans won't be turned off. Then you have this, with virtually no sound :eek:

They won't be small engines though. They'll be getting better and better as time goes on and could be able to do some incredible things that just aren't possible in a combustion engine car.

Myrddin wrote: »

No sense of excitement, adrenaline, being on the limit, or anything at all in fact. If this is the future of motorsport, stop the bus, I want off. I'll happily immerse myself in the F1 season reviews over this

It's just the lack of engine noise that is giving that impression, if you were in the car listening to the new sounds of tyres that you could never hear before, going much faster through every corner, I'm pretty sure it would be exciting.

We just grew up in the age of combustion engines, I think electric engines are very exciting, and as performance goes up cooling systems may introduce new sounds.

I think electric engines just haven't had the chance to shine. There will come a day when it's just not practical or affordable to race combustion engines. Electric will be faster and cheaper, meaning more people will use electric cars, until inevitably combustion engines are only rolled out on rare occasions at car shows.

Myrddin

ScumLord wrote: »

if you were in the car listening to the new sounds of tyres that you could never hear before, going much faster through every corner, I'm pretty sure it would be exciting.

Well I'm sure it would, but I'm not in the car, I'm at home, where the vast majority of viewers would be watching from. Without the noise of a powerful combustion engine being on the limit, there's no sense of theater or excitement. The only thing worse than watching near silent cars on tv, would be to be at the race in the grandstands. Imagine the anticlimactic nature of hearing the people sitting beside you chatting being louder than the cars racing past you. Awful stuff, truly awful.

We just grew up in the age of combustion engines, I think electric engines are very exciting, and as performance goes up cooling systems may introduce new sounds.

I think electric engines just haven't had the chance to shine. There will come a day when it's just not practical or affordable to race combustion engines. Electric will be faster and cheaper, meaning more people will use electric cars, until inevitably combustion engines are only rolled out on rare occasions at car shows.

You're right in that we just grew up in the age of combustion engines, the ear-drum shattering noise of a V8, V10, or V12 will never, ever, be beaten by a glorified Scalextric car for me. I think electric engines are exciting, but not in terms of motor sport. They're exciting because of the benefits in economy they offer for a motorist, but for me, when I watch motorsport, the very last thing I want to have to think about is economy. This is sport, where real world concerns should go out the window, in an effort to push the limits of what technology can do without those constraints.

Charlie-Bravo

Is this a vinyl versus CD scenario - a big change in media format, but hopefully keeping the essence of the game.

Myrddin

astrofluff wrote: »

Is this a vinyl versus CD scenario - a big change in media format, but hopefully keeping the essence of the game.

Kinda like that, except in this case the cd has no music on it

ScumLord

Myrddin wrote: »

The only thing worse than watching near silent cars on tv, would be to be at the race in the grandstands. Imagine the anticlimactic nature of hearing the people sitting beside you chatting being louder than the cars racing past you. Awful stuff, truly awful.

Well it's hard to say one way or another at this stage because there's been no racing. The other thing you have to keep in mind is that, as far as I know, the formula style car shown in previews isn't one of the cars that will be taking part. The one I saw is an LMP style car, I don't know that there is a set car type. So that could make things very interesting. The cars have a potential to be a hell of a lot faster on every part of the track too.

This is sport, where real world concerns should go out the window, in an effort to push the limits of what technology can do without those constraints.

The technology that will be best in the future will be electric though. If electric is the fastest, it wins.

Frank Bullitt

"Story bud, ya lookin to buy any Formula E are ya???"

Myrddin

ScumLord wrote: »

Well it's hard to say one way or another at this stage because there's been no racing.

True. However, there are other direct comparisons:

versus

I know it's a matter of taste, but I know which one I prefer.

The other thing you have to keep in mind is that, as far as I know, the formula style car shown in previews isn't one of the cars that will be taking part. The one I saw is an LMP style car, I don't know that there is a set car type. So that could make things very interesting

The only hope it has for me really, if the racing is exciting somehow. The styling of the car won't matter all that much to me.

The cars have a potential to be a hell of a lot faster on every part of the track too.

Perhaps. But outright speed isn't directly proportional to excitement, for me anyway. I'd worry the series will be a glorified tech-demo. It needs soul, passion, adrenaline...and so far, I'm not seeing it.

The technology that will be best in the future will be electric though. If electric is the fastest, it wins.

No disputing that electric is the way things are going, & for motorists, I'm all for it, it has real advantages & gains. When it comes to sport though, there are other key ingredients needed, again it needs passion, excitement, heritage...much more than speed alone can offer. It remains to be seen if Formula E will provide such, maybe it will, but from what I can see above, frankly it wouldn't interest me.

I'm of the ilk that would rather sit up front on a steam train, than I would an electric train. I like the machine, the grease, the oil, the fuel, the driver, the design, all working in harmony & striving for that extra 1/10th, while chasing down the car in front with it's roaring V8/V10/V12 shouting back 'you're not getting past me!". And for sure, the above F-E video does state the car is only running at 25%, we havn't heard it at full pelt I suppose...so I'll try & reserve judgement until I've seen more. But as it stands, like for like, there's no contest in my eyes.

stevenmu

I like the idea of holding the races in cities, that'll make it more interesting to watch anyway.

If they really want this to be relevant and to generate some excitement, they should go completely balls to the wall and build cars that can beat F1 cars over X number of laps. That would generate a ton of hype and media interest for Formula E (and in turn more sponsor interest), and possibly get more of the general public on board. And as a nice side effect it might encourage F1 to loosen the rules a little to win back the crown.

ScumLord

Myrddin wrote: »

Perhaps. But outright speed isn't directly proportional to excitement, for me anyway. I'd worry the series will be a glorified tech-demo. It needs soul, passion, adrenaline...and so far, I'm not seeing it.

The soul and passion comes from the guys that make up the teams. From what I can see there's plenty of passion there and it reminds me more of the early days of F1 because they're going into the unknown, they don't even know if the rules are going to work or if their car will be fast enough or robust enough to make it over the line. These guys are trying to build a future for a sport they believe may contribute to saving the world. They have to be passionate.

I'm of the ilk that would rather sit up front on a steam train, than I would an electric train.

I love engineering, my job means I get to see it up close too from design, to manufacturing, to testing and quality control. I know that the electric train is a much better engineered machine than the steam train. I was in awe of Spains trains when I was on them a few years ago. It's ability to take off in complete silence, without me even noticing and then be doing over 200klm not long after, still in complete silence as if you were sitting in a chair in a stationary house is a sign of it's much better piece of engineering over the steam train.


I want to see the fastest racing machines, over the coming years that's going to become an electrically driven machine. F1 cars being loud loud and smelly isn't going to be enough to keep me watching if they're not the top series anymore. They're already restricted the amount of development that can be done, I think with time all the developments will be happening in the new series E.

Myrddin

ScumLord wrote: »

The soul and passion comes from the guys that make up the teams. From what I can see there's plenty of passion there and it reminds me more of the early days of F1 because they're going into the unknown, they don't even know if the rules are going to work or if their car will be fast enough or robust enough to make it over the line. These guys are trying to build a future for a sport they believe may contribute to saving the world. They have to be passionate.

No doubting the drive & push behind the tech by those involved, it's a pity just how sterile it all looks though from the on-board shots. Still, it's only running at 25% so I'll reserve judgment until we see the real thing. As for the sport contributing to saving the world, I really can't see it. Not unless the planes, ships & trucks used to shuttle the sport, its people & the parts around the globe are running Hydrogen based power systems. Electric may be a step in the right direction, but it's not the be all end all...motorsport is pretty reliant on fossil fuels behind the scenes, despite what the PR spin says.

I love engineering, my job means I get to see it up close too from design, to manufacturing, to testing and quality control. I know that the electric train is a much better engineered machine than the steam train. I was in awe of Spains trains when I was on them a few years ago. It's ability to take off in complete silence, without me even noticing and then be doing over 200klm not long after, still in complete silence as if you were sitting in a chair in a stationary house is a sign of it's much better piece of engineering over the steam train.

No doubting which is superior. I still know which I'd prefer though

I want to see the fastest racing machines, over the coming years that's going to become an electrically driven machine. F1 cars being loud loud and smelly isn't going to be enough to keep me watching if they're not the top series anymore. They're already restricted the amount of development that can be done, I think with time all the developments will be happening in the new series E.

Yeah I'm looking forward to how Formula E pans out...I'll go into it with an open mind really but if the embedded video is anything at all to go by, it looks bland & sterile. Hopefully it doesn't turn out that way

Technoprisoner

and i bet you vettel could win in one of those and all:eek::D

Have I stumbled into a Top Gear segment on Alfa Romeo? :P

ScumLord

Myrddin wrote: »

As for the sport contributing to saving the world, I really can't see it. Not unless the planes, ships & trucks used to shuttle the sport, its people & the parts around the globe are running Hydrogen based power systems.

It's not going to directly save the world but the engineers working on the cars will have that in the back of their head. You never know either, the advances they make in making a high speed motor could go on to help all other industries. To me, it really is like the good old days when anythings possible.

Yeah I'm looking forward to how Formula E pans out...I'll go into it with an open mind really but if the embedded video is anything at all to go by, it looks bland & sterile. Hopefully it doesn't turn out that way

I think the fact so little is known about the cars and how they'll perform will lead to excitement. It may be comical at times, it may be embarrassing at first but I'm excited to see something so brand new. It's been a while since motorsport has gone into the unknown.

cherryghost

So uh... Leonardo DiCaprio is entering a team for next year.

Myrddin

cherryghost wrote: »

So uh... Leonardo DiCaprio is entering a team for next year.

Amazing how he finds the time, what with being an F1 driver an all

Jordan 199

It's going to be broadcast live on ITV4.

Oafley Jones

They're still planning on letting viewers vote on giving a driver a single 50hp boost during the race. If so, **** it.

Tea 1000

I'm more excited about this now since the new F1 engines sound so crap! No sound might actually be better!

Tzardine

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I'm more excited about this now since the new F1 engines sound so crap! No sound might actually be better!

270 BHP and cars will be limited to 140mph

No thanks.

andyman

Adam Carroll could be racing in it, I'd watch in that case.

stevenmu

Tzardine wrote: »

270 BHP and cars will be limited to 140mph

No thanks.

If anything would put me off F1 it's the artificial performance limits they impose. I was hoping Formula E, being a new series and highly tech focused, would be much better in that regard, but it actually seems to be worse.

ScumLord

Tzardine wrote: »

270 BHP and cars will be limited to 140mph

No thanks.

I don't see why that has to be a problem, race go karts only put out 28hp.

stevenmu wrote: »

If anything would put me off F1 it's the artificial performance limits they impose. I was hoping Formula E, being a new series and highly tech focused, would be much better in that regard, but it actually seems to be worse.

Aren't they racing in cities though? I would assume they don't want experimental high speed cars driving around town.

It's the first year, they're going for spectacle to get people interested. If they wanted to allow the cars to go to their full potential (technologically) we'd probably need new tracks. They put limits on these cars to make them safe. Cars faster than F1 would have to have bigger run off areas and probably longer tracks to cater for the speed. An investment no one's going to put into formula e at this stage.

Charlie-Bravo

Some new drivers have been added - the latest is The Trulli Train. Should be fun watching his Sunday afternoon driving again :rolleyes:

http://www.fiaformulae.com/news/trulli-bird-heidfeld-Ambrosio-join-drivers-club

"Jarno Trulli, Sam Bird, Nick Heidfeld & Jérôme d'Ambrosio add names to Formula E Drivers' Club"

cherryghost

A list of drivers that never fully realized their potential.

stevenmu

ScumLord wrote: »

Aren't they racing in cities though? I would assume they don't want experimental high speed cars driving around town.

It's the first year, they're going for spectacle to get people interested. If they wanted to allow the cars to go to their full potential (technologically) we'd probably need new tracks. They put limits on these cars to make them safe. Cars faster than F1 would have to have bigger run off areas and probably longer tracks to cater for the speed. An investment no one's going to put into formula e at this stage.

That's a good point, I forgot they were racing in cities, which would require more safety, but should definitely help the spectacle.

When I saw how limited they are, I had visions of them crawling around F1 tracks which would be pretty dull.

Tzardine

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't see why that has to be a problem, race go karts only put out 28hp.

I dont understand your point.

Racing Karts is not a mass spectator sport.

ScumLord

Tzardine wrote: »

I dont understand your point.

Racing Karts is not a mass spectator sport.

It is in the likes of France I think. Spectator sports are just the ones that get promoted properly. Kart racing is often considered by most to be the purest form of motorsport. Just because millions of people don't watch it doesn't take anything away from the sport.

SouperComputer

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't see why that has to be a problem, race go karts put out as much as 90hp.

Fixed that for ya. FWIW, 250E's (ironically also called FE) put down about 90 HP and weigh in at 205Kg including driver. Somewhat akin to a light road car with 900HP to use quick and very nasty math.

Back on topic, 270 HP in a formula car is pretty decent, not sure what the weight of the formula E's is though.

afatbollix

How stupid is it to have Goodwood and this on in London at the same time! Goodwood has over 250k people at it that weekend its not like they will go to both events!

Tzardine

afatbollix wrote: »

How stupid is it to have Goodwood and this on in London at the same time! Goodwood has over 250k people at it that weekend its not like they will go to both events!

That is a strange decision. Although to be honest I really dont see Formula E being successful at all. Which is a shame because as much as I have criticized the series it could have potential however with no viewers it will quickly die out and be abandoned in my opinion.

antodeco

Tzardine wrote: »

That is a strange decision. Although to be honest I really dont see Formula E being successful at all. Which is a shame because as much as I have criticized the series it could have potential however with no viewers it will quickly die out and be abandoned in my opinion.

I think they will get "non motor" people going to this in London. Think of the Bavarian racing in town. Loads of people went, who were not motor people. Having cars race through a city is a pull in itself. Its actually something I would really like to see myself.

ScumLord

Tzardine wrote: »

That is a strange decision. Although to be honest I really dont see Formula E being successful at all. Which is a shame because as much as I have criticized the series it could have potential however with no viewers it will quickly die out and be abandoned in my opinion.

They've gone head first into the FE it's true. I would have liked to see something a bit more low key so they could develop the series before throwing it in front of the world untried and untested.