Off The Ball Official Thread <Mod Note - Post #1, #533, #6651>

Jayesdiem

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Oh lol. So when I was 10 stone and riding for a trainer, why was I never picked for serious work along with plenty of other lads? If we'd had money, we would have paid to get rides! Why were the likes of Walsh and Barry Geraghty and Davy Russell chosen to compete at the top level?

I'm laughing that I'm even putting myself into the same sentence as those guys. You don't seem to agree that jockeys are a limiting factor in racing, ie you think they won't make a difference between winning and losing. Is that right?

That's so absurd I don't think it can be taken seriously, but maybe you can elaborate?

Not sure I need to but you mention body weight there as an important prerequisite and, let’s be conservative here, maybe that accounts for 20% of the results of a successful jockey. Let’s not forget the horse either - 70% and I think I’m being very generous in attributing 10% to the person sitting on top, whipping like mad as if that is some sort of skill.

Jayesdiem

Tell me how wrote: »

So Darts players are most definitely sportsmen, but Jockeys aren't? Is that the latest state of play here?

For sure. Darts don’t land on the bull all by themselves. Conversely, a horse could conceivably win a race with no jockey on top of them (if the rules permitted). When’s the last time a dart landed on it’s target without being thrown?

Tell me how

Jayesdiem wrote: »

For sure. Darts don’t land on the bull all by themselves. Conversely, a horse could conceivably win a race with no jockey on top of them (if the rules permitted). When’s the last time a dart landed on it’s target without being thrown?

Try opening the stalls 1.8 Miles away from the finish line and see how many horses sprint towards it of their own volition.

diusmr8a504cvk

Jocky Wilson > Any Jockey ever.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Try opening the stalls 1.8 Miles away from the finish line and see how many horses sprint towards it of their own volition.

Exactly, and even that isn't doing it justice. In fairness, you could lift a random group of 15-year-olds from Pony Club and they should be able to steer a horse home.

The whole point is that it isn't about steering. There are a thousand ways to f--k up your approach to a hurdle, or a fence, or your balance; and even if you do those things perfectly, you can misread the ground, fail to consider the track (in one of my only races, I forgot Thurles had a hill). But most commonly of all, a bad jockey (and being one, i think I can say something on this) doesn't read his ride. A good jockey will will know within 5 to 10 strides if he needs to push or pull back, he had to read his own horse and then those around them. Then he has to look at what the rest of the riders in the field are adjusting betore he makes his choice. All of these judgements happen in seconds, and can't be taught. They're probably instincts.

They're absolutely crucial to how a horse fares.

Everyone understands that athletics isn't just about racing to the end line. We all know that tactics are crucial. The same is true of racing, except there's no direct line between you and your ride. You have to guess what your ride is thinking, then you have to guess what the other riders are thinking about what their rides are thinking. Naturally, most of us can't do it. It's not easy.

I know you might not even be arguing this point, I'm just replying to your post because I don't think I can be civil to someone who doesn't get it.

I wanted to be a jockey since I was about 7, being some lad commenting about the job on an Internet forum was never the dream! If people really doubt the levels of skill and insight required -- let alone the physical commitment -- I think they're deluded, genuinely.

generalgerry

I heard OTB the other night after the "Demolition Derby" story came out about Richard Kehoe, and then the remarks from Mick McCarthy about the topic. "This sort of thing damages lives" says the almost saintly Kevin Kilbane, as Gilroy nods along like a dog. Do you know what else damages lives? Gambling destroys families. Richard Keogh just made a stupid off the cuff decision to take a lift with one of his drunk pals, but you guys make the conscious decision to promote gambling for the money it puts in your pocket.

You know these prudes have set the bar so high, I really cannot wait until one of them has their very own Justin Trudeau moment. And I think it must be coming soon.

Tell me how

generalgerry wrote: »

I heard OTB the other night after the "Demolition Derby" story came out about Richard Kehoe, and then the remarks from Mick McCarthy about the topic. "This sort of thing damages lives" says the almost saintly Kevin Kilbane, as Gilroy nods along like a dog. Do you know what else damages lives? Gambling destroys families. Richard Keogh just made a stupid off the cuff decision to take a lift with one of his drunk pals, but you guys make the conscious decision to promote gambling for the money it puts in your pocket.

You know these prudes have set the bar so high, I really cannot wait until one of them has their very own Justin Trudeau moment. And I think it must be coming soon.

Are you talking about the guys on the show or the guys on boards who give out about OTB taking money from betting companies but then post in threads about betting odds/tips/success stories?

Also, if you want to have a dig at the show, it's probably best not to passively defend drink driving while doing so. I don't like betting representation on the show mostly because it is accompanied with pseudo analysis which is just waffle trying to entice someone to put a 20 on an accumulator.

generalgerry

Tell me how wrote: »

Also, if you want to have a dig at the show, it's probably best not to passively defend drink driving while doing so. I don't like betting representation on the show mostly because it is accompanied with pseudo analysis which is just waffle trying to entice someone to put a 20 on an accumulator.

My point is that they cannot pretend like they care about "things that damage families and society" while they continue to promote one of those "things" for their own financial benefit.

robo

styron wrote: »

Looks like Abu Dhabi golf trip has been shelved - not hearing ads or reminder mentions anymore, some OTB site links dead and now off the travel agent's site:

I'd say that they didn't get enough "listeners" to join their very full "celebrity" travellers & probably at least half of the OTB presenters, except Eoin (cos he is in Japan & won't be allowed out of the studio again on a jolly until at least the World Cup in 2022)
Plus they had an early bird offer that was extended … think of those poor OTB lads that thought they had bagged themselves a trip to Abu Dabi :eek:

styron

robo wrote: »

I'd say that they didn't get enough "listeners" to join their very full "celebrity" travellers & probably at least half of the OTB presenters, except Eoin (cos he is in Japan & won't be allowed out of the studio again on a jolly until at least the World Cup in 2022)
Plus they had an early bird offer that was extended … think of those poor OTB lads that thought they had bagged themselves a trip to Abu Dabi :eek:

Can't say they didn't give it a go (20/8):

Conor Sketches has been added to the bill for Off The Ball’s November Golf trip to Abu Dhabi. With Early Bird rates about to close the impressionist who has covered everyone from Joe Brolly to Tiger Woods is a positive addition to an already high octane line up of stars that will be on-site to entertain those travelling. “This was a great idea from Louise Wheatley, our Marketing Director, who knows Abu Dhabi from her time with Etihad,” said Off the Ball Managing Director Ger Gilroy, speaking to Sport for Business.
“We’d been looking to build out a series of events that allow people to participate as well as just attend to layer on top of the OTB Roadshows that we do with live audiences.”
“Our roadshows are always a brilliant night out but like everyone else we’ve seen the shift in society where people also want to be involved in things, they want to participate. So our challenge was to come up with ways to make that happen too.”
“Our golf days fill up immediately so we thought we’d see what the appetite was like for a bit of winter sunshine, two amazing courses – Yas is in the Top 50 courses in the World, and a roadshow in a truly unique part of the world.”
“We have loads of regular listeners in Abu Dhabi, and indeed in Dubai, so we’re delighted to be bringing them the show too. We’d hope to have 400-500 at our roadshow.”
The show will be broadcast live from Abu Dhabi on each of the nights that the team is down there and it will be a time with plenty of reflection no doubt on the Rugby World cup which will have concluded weeks previously as well as looking back on the year of sport.


The take up has been strong enough to encourage Gilroy and the team to start planning ahead for next year as well.
“Clearly this is an ambitious first start for sure but we’re offering discounts for groups so we hope that the corporate market will bring clients, as well as individual listeners, and groups of friends travelling in four balls.

“All told we’re aiming for 80 to 100 to start with. Our plan for 2020 would be to do something similar next year closer to home in Springtime and then go back to Abu Dhabi next winter.”


http://sportforbusiness.com/conor-sketches-added-to-otb-trip/

roadmaster

Tell me how wrote: »

See Game On are going to 2 hours/night. Getting a head start on the OTB schedule as well. Ruby Walsh will draw a few listeners.
Donnacha is fairly familiar with media work at this stage but I'm not sure how he will be for a full time radio show, I haven't seen enough of him to form an opinion.

Is that just until Hugh Cahill comes back from Japan?

styron

roadmaster wrote: »

Is that just until Hugh Cahill comes back from Japan?

No, looks like new line-up.

roadmaster

styron wrote: »

No, looks like new line-up.

That’s a shame I liked Hugh and Alan. I can’t take to ruby. The show has a lot slower pace or lack of energy at the moment

dominatinMC

roadmaster wrote: »

That’s a shame I liked Hugh and Alan. I can’t take to ruby. The show has a lot slower pace or lack of energy at the moment

Very unfair on Hugh and Alan if it's the case that they've been booted-out! Marie Crowe is a fine journalist and broadcaster, but this reeks of RTE enforcing the gender-balance quota. I don't particularly like Ruby or DoC either. Time to move back to OTB I think :pac:

Raoul

dominatinMC wrote: »

Very unfair on Hugh and Alan if it's the case that they've been booted-out! Marie Crowe is a fine journalist and broadcaster, but this reeks of RTE enforcing the gender-balance quota. I don't particularly like Ruby or DoC either. Time to move back to OTB I think :pac:

Yeah, Hugh and Alan are good. Disappointed. Probably no LOI from now on then.

Howitzer the 5th

dominatinMC wrote: »

Very unfair on Hugh and Alan if it's the case that they've been booted-out! Marie Crowe is a fine journalist and broadcaster, but this reeks of RTE enforcing the gender-balance quota. I don't particularly like Ruby or DoC either. Time to move back to OTB I think :pac:

OTB is vastly superior irrespective of their apparent self-worth and occasional pretentioness, in terms of depth of coverage and analysis by a myriad of contributors of many many sports. Game On with Hugh Cahill and Alan Cawley was full of screechy wild opinions with complete indifference to any thoughful analysis. Marie Crowe is a very good newspaper reporter. She's not a great broadcaster. Ruby Walsh and Donncha O'Callaghan as presenters and hosts of a radio sports show is as bad as it sounds. Former sportsmen thrown into something new because they're great lads, great gas altogether.

Beechwoodspark

Ruby is going to be a full time presenter? Surprised at that. He has commitments with racing tv paddy power etc as well

monstermag

This Rugby World Cup is all over the shop in terms of tv coverage. It's understandable why RTE have scaled back given the state of its finances and off course the time difference is another major factor, who's going to want to tune in and watch Scotland beat Russia something like 60-0 at ten in the morning.
I was surprised when I turned on eir sport the other day only to find Tommy Bowe anchoring it's Rugby coverage and even more surprised at how good he is in the hot seat, proving it is possible to go from the field to the studio, l think he has a natural ability in front of the camera and it helps that he knows the game inside out.

roadmaster

Howitzer the 5th wrote: »

OTB is vastly superior irrespective of their apparent self-worth and occasional pretentioness, in terms of depth of coverage and analysis by a myriad of contributors of many many sports. Game On with Hugh Cahill and Alan Cawley was full of screechy wild opinions with complete indifference to any thoughful analysis. Marie Crowe is a very good newspaper reporter. She's not a great broadcaster. Ruby Walsh and Donncha O'Callaghan as presenters and hosts of a radio sports show is as bad as it sounds. Former sportsmen thrown into something new because they're great lads, great gas altogether.

But
I Agree content wise OTB is better, I listen to otb am every-morning but I liked game on because Hugh Alan Gary would not seam to be as restricted in there views and it was presented different to otb.

dr.kenneth noisewater

monstermag wrote: »

This Rugby World Cup is all over the shop in terms of tv coverage. It's understandable why RTE have scaled back given the state of its finances and off course the time difference is another major factor, who's going to want to tune in and watch Scotland beat Russia something like 60-0 at ten in the morning.
I was surprised when I turned on eir sport the other day only to find Tommy Bowe anchoring it's Rugby coverage and even more surprised at how  good he is in the hot seat, proving it is possible to go from the field to the studio, l think he has a natural ability in front of the camera and it helps that he knows the game inside out.

Not really sure what any of that has to do with OTB

monstermag

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

Not really sure what any of that has to do with OTB

Will there is a couple of posts on here questioning whether it's a good idea or not when ex sports people go into media.
Tommy Bowe in my opinion is one that has worked out.

Raoul

Raoul wrote: »

Yeah, Hugh and Alan are good. Disappointed. Probably no LOI from now on then.

Marie Crowe played (may still do so) for St Pat's Women's team and is well up on LOI matters so I doubt that.

Unfortunately, we do have to listen to Ruby, who is a great big pain in the backside.

Tell me how

I wonder would Second Captains have been approached/considered for this given their origins and their experience with RTE 2.
The time frame sounds like something they were looking for (at least the start element) at the time of the great fall out.

generalgerry

Where do we stand on Johnny Ward. I think I've had just about enough of him at this stage.

Tell me how

generalgerry wrote: »

Where do we stand on Johnny Ward. I think I've had just about enough of him at this stage.

I think he's good.
Very passionate about league of Ireland and seems knowledgeable on horse racing (at least from my uneducated position).

I suspect he is significantly responsible for a lot of the Friday night racing interviews most of which I've heard are excellent.

dominatinMC

generalgerry wrote: »

Where do we stand on Johnny Ward. I think I've had just about enough of him at this stage.

I'm a fan. I consider Johnny and Nathan to be the best presenting duo on OTB, and they're the main reason I've started to tune-in a bit more lately.

RugbyLover123

monstermag wrote: »

Will there is a couple of posts on here questioning whether it's a good idea or not when ex sports people go into media.
Tommy Bowe in my opinion is one that has worked out.

Interesting cause I was going to post in the WC thread the other day that anytime I see Bowe on tv he does not look natural at all. I find he stumbles over his words and his nerves are clear to see. Hopefully he’ll improve with time but he’s far from the Lineker mould of a former pro turning to presenter imo.

diusmr8a504cvk

If it was just Johnny Ward and Dan McDonnell I'd be happy.

monstermag

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

Interesting cause I was going to post in the WC thread the other day that anytime I see Bowe on tv he does not look natural at all. I find he stumbles over his words and his nerves are clear to see. Hopefully he’ll improve with time but he’s far from the Lineker mould of a former pro turning to presenter imo.

Maybe l got him on a good day.

wonderboysam

Tell me how wrote: »

I wonder would Second Captains have been approached/considered for this given their origins and their experience with RTE 2.
The time frame sounds like something they were looking for (at least the start element) at the time of the great fall out.

Would absolutely love to have those lads back on air