Phil Hogan and Parish Pump politics [MERGED WITH MOD WARNING]

Happyman42

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0926/phil-hogan-traveller-family-house.html


Leaving aside the traveller aspect of the letter, should a minister be interfering in housing issues like this at all?
Isn't it the time for our govenors to address this percieved 'ministerial duty' and lay down stringent proceedures and guidelines so that constituents know that it is pointless to approach a minister over local issues like this? Or is it impossible to stop it?

MOD WARNING: If you are going to make specific claims about a) the letter involved, or b) the family involved in this case, you need to provide a link. Hearsay and 'word on the street' is not going to cut it here.

Canvasser

It appears that Phil Hogan has abused his position as Minister to deny a traveller family a house. The family in question is perfectly peaceful and law abiding. This looks like a serious case of bigotry. Sinn Fein tried to raise the matter in the Dáil but were prevented from doing so by a very partisan Sean Barrett (the Ceann Comhairle). Eamon O Cuiv of Fianna Fáil said that a minister interfering in a housing allocation process to prevent a Traveller family being housed on the basis of them being Travellers would be "an extraordinary abuse of power", as well as being illegal.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0926/phil-hogan-traveller-family-house.html

http://www.thejournal.ie/phil-hogan-travellers-610561-Sep2012/?utm_source=facebook_self&utm_medium=thejournal&utm_campaign=from_page

Canvasser

Happyman42 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0926/phil-hogan-traveller-family-house.html


Leaving aside the traveller aspect of the letter, should a minister be interfering in housing issues like this at all?
Isn't it the time for our govenors to address this percieved 'ministerial duty' and lay down stringent proceedures and guidelines so that constituents know that it is pointless to approach a minister over local issues like this? Or is it impossible to stop it?

How can you leave aside the racist and bigotted nature of the letter?

Fenian Army

of course. Probably won't be though.

Manach

Canvasser wrote: »

How can you leave aside the racist and bigotted nature of the letter?

Because there are so many other problems with the country that the faux-outrage of the chattering classes.

Merch

what was racist and bigoted?
It said a family named wouldnt be housed in the area.

Clearly that leaves a lot of room that there are some details omitted, as a person that has experienced threats and harrasment from travellers I can see what that could be. Maybe that is not the case, but a newspaper article has suggested otherwise.

What I would suggest is a minister shouldnt be dealing with this, but in my experience, the Gardai, the council etc dont want to, so i can see how a person would approach a minister. It should be a Garda/council issue? or a counciller but as they may want to advance their position its likely a hot potato they dont want to touch.

Laminations

Hogan should consider his position, and step down

Happyman42

Canvasser wrote: »

How can you leave aside the racist and bigotted nature of the letter?

eh, because it gets in the way of the substantive issue I wanted to raise?

Merch

Happyman42 wrote: »

eh, because it gets in the way of the substantive issue I wanted to raise?

The problem is, you can (and I have not done this for any issue) approach a person that can try resolve things or bump you up the Que regarding your complaint or go to the people that should deal with it but it goes nowhere?

So guidelines could be drawn up and should be really, but unless the Gardai/Councils etc deal with issues (any local issues) then people will always go to Ministers.

VinLieger

My main problem with this is how is a politicians so stupid as to put something like this in writing?

antoobrien

oops - wrong minister, always get those two confused.

Merch

VinLieger wrote: »

My main problem with this is how is a politicians so stupid as to put something like this in writing?

I agree it is stupid to put in writing, but not being in writing (or provable) but still happening is not somehow better,
all assuming there wasn't some issue that complainants had about the people in question, some real issue that wasn't otherwise being dealt with.

Ministers shouldnt be involved in local issues really, but if a council or the Gardai were effective then it would be known iof there was an issue and it would be dealt with accordingly, however you cannot speak of theissues some people create because then people that have never experience dealings with anti social behavior from anyone shout loudest bigotry, discrimination, racism etc
I find it hard to believe there was not some underlying issue, Im shocked that I would see P Hogan has done something/dealt with an issue, that I would agree with.
The newspaper article said there was a previous issue of anti social behaviour (Im relying on a newspaper has this accurately), but if that is the case, what is so wrong with that being pointed out.
If the councils cant or wont deal with it, why is it a problem to point at it and say its wrong.

I saw the letter on Vincent browne last night, effectively it said, that the named family wouldnt be housed in the said area.
What is racist,discriminatory/bigoted about that
If they were involved in the activity suggested in the paper then what do they expect?

Pawwed Rig

Happyman42 wrote: »

Isn't it the time for our govenors to address this percieved 'ministerial duty' and lay down stringent proceedures and guidelines so that constituents know that it is pointless to approach a minister over local issues like this? Or is it impossible to stop it?

Because one does it they all have to do it unfortunately. I agree with you that it should be stopped for all TD's. If they are only interested in local issues then they should not be in the Dail. I would like to think a Ministers sole focus is getting our country out of the gutter rather than worrying about what family lives where.
Congrats to the local council for ignoring him and imo making him look like a right twit.

Grudaire

He really hasn't been a good environment minister either.. I'd have sacked him before this came out as well

20Cent

Everything he touches turns into a disaster big liability for FG he should get the boot.

antoobrien

Canvasser wrote: »

It appears that Phil Hogan has abused his position as Minister to deny a traveller family a house. The family in question is perfectly peaceful and law abiding. This looks like a serious case of bigotry. Sinn Fein tried to raise the matter in the Dáil but were prevented from doing so by a very partisan Sean Barrett (the Ceann Comhairle). Eamon O Cuiv of Fianna Fáil said that a minister interfering in a housing allocation process to prevent a Traveller family being housed on the basis of them being Travellers would be "an extraordinary abuse of power", as well as being illegal.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0926/phil-hogan-traveller-family-house.html

http://www.thejournal.ie/phil-hogan-travellers-610561-Sep2012/?utm_source=facebook_self&utm_medium=thejournal&utm_campaign=from_page

O'Cuiv & SF can't talk, they didn't say much when the locals effectively blocked Galway city council wanting to buy a house for a traveller family with a special needs child.

More opposition hypocrisy disguised as policy outrage.

Grudaire

antoobrien wrote: »

O'Cuiv & SF can't talk, they didn't say much when the locals effectively blocked Galway city council wanting to buy a house for a traveller family with a special needs child.

More opposition hypocrisy disguised as policy outrage.

So if a different opposition party says it - would it be ok? Or is it ok for our Government to do it because the Shinners did before?

http://www.greenparty.ie/news.html?n=125

(I'm pretty sure the Greens haven't been involved in this sort of thing.)

antoobrien

Cliste wrote: »

So if a different opposition party says it - would it be ok? Or is it ok for our Government to do it because the Shinners did before?

http://www.greenparty.ie/news.html?n=125

(I'm pretty sure the Greens haven't been involved in this sort of thing.)

No, just point out hypocrisy where it raises it's head. Don't know of any greens active in Galway since O'Brollachain got the boot or I'd raise them as targets as well. Donal Lyons (ind/former PD) is the only one I can recall even talking about the matter in Galway, so the rest of them haven't exactly covered themselves in glory coming to the aid of travellers.

The fact that its coming (at least in part) from O'Cuiv, who is the TD for the family in Galway, is a bit galling imo.

antoobrien

Has anybody seen the latter or is this a case of calling racism because there's a traveller family involved?

Grudaire

antoobrien wrote: »

No, just point out hypocrisy where it raises it's head. Don't know of any greens active in Galway since O'Brollachain got the boot or I'd raise them as targets as well. Donal Lyons (ind/former PD) is the only one I can recall even talking about the matter in Galway, so the rest of them haven't exactly covered themselves in glory coming to the aid of travellers.

The fact that its coming (at least in part) from O'Cuiv, who is the TD for the family in Galway, is a bit galling imo.

Raise them as targets?!

You have as of yet failed to even acknowledge that Phil Hogan is definitely in the wrong on this one.

I don't know offhand but a quick google comes up with http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/community/noonan-criticises-council-s-unease-over-traveller-issue-1-3759138 - so now does Malcom Noonan have the right to question Phil Hogan, or what would you say to him?

The primary issue here isn't what any opposition parties have done, and I do worry if you think it is.

Slurryface

Yes

antoobrien

Cliste wrote: »

Raise them as targets?!

You have as of yet failed to even acknowledge that Phil Hogan is definitely in the wrong on this one.

I don't know offhand but a quick google comes up with http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/community/noonan-criticises-council-s-unease-over-traveller-issue-1-3759138 - so now does Malcom Noonan have the right to question Phil Hogan, or what would you say to him?

The primary issue here isn't what any opposition parties have done, and I do worry if you think it is.

What has a vote to do with recognising an ethnic group (which have been proven to be not a genetically distinct ethnic group by travellers themselves) got to do with the non housing of a family - traveller or not?

I asked this question in the other thread, so I'll ask it here, has anybody seen the letter in question?

Would the same furore be raised if it was my family that was refused housing?

How do we know that there is no resonable explanation for stating that the family will not be housed in the area (e.g. finding suitable housing as was the issue with the case I pointed out in Galway)?

seamus

From the journal piece:

It is understood that Hogan intervened in the matter after receiving representations regarding a dispute between two families in the area in the past. He was told that the McCarthy’s should not be housed in a place “where there was a potential for conflict”, the Mail reports.

In that context, it would seem reasonable that if the McCarthy family were in dispute with another family, that they would avoid housing the two in close proximity. Don't see any issue there.

Does anyone have an actual copy of the letter so it can be read in full context?

MagicSean

I'm no fan of Mr Hogan. I find him to be a terrible politician and useless as regards his job but i think this situation has been twisted

My understanding of this is as following. The council had plans to move a family into a house. A number of residents contacted Phil Hogan as their representative to complain about this proposed move as the family in question had a history of anti-social behaviour and were involved in a feud with another resident family. Phil Hogan then wrote to the council and informed them of this and asked that the family not be placed there. He then wrote to the people who had contacted him and told them the famly would not be moved in. The council promptly ignored his request and moved them in anyway.

If this is indeed the case serious questions need to be asked of why the council moved in a family involved in a feud with other residents despite being told of this problem. Did they do it because they go in a huff about Phil getting involved?

Now as it turns out this family is a traveller family. Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein have jumped on this as proof Phil Hogan is a racist. i find this to be ridiculous. If a family is badly behaved they should be treated as such. They do not deserve some kind of immunity because they happen to be travellers. Any kind of different treatment based on ethnicity, even good treatment, is surely inherently racist.

Now my understanding is based on what I've read on this so far today so it's possible I'm incorrect. But based on the facts I have stated above i believe that the only criticism Phil Hogan deserves in this situation is that he should not have written to his constituents prematurely. Maybe he thought his influence was more than it actually was. Or maybe the council paniced when they heard about the letter and feared they would be called racist. Whatever the case it was a stupid thing to do. But otherwise i don't see anything wrong with what he has done.

Grudaire

Well I'm glad you've come to actually talk about it instead of mud slinging

antoobrien wrote: »

I asked this question in the other thread, so I'll ask it here, has anybody seen the letter in question?

How do we know that there is no resonable explanation for stating that the family will not be housed in the area (e.g. finding suitable housing as was the issue with the case I pointed out in Galway)?

These are quite valid points, until the full story is out there we won't know.

Don't forget the truth might be worse than the rumours

It is understood that Hogan intervened in the matter after receiving representations regarding a dispute between two families in the area in the past. He was told that the McCarthy’s should not be housed in a place “where there was a potential for conflict”, the Mail reports.

It doesn't go as far to say that it is the same two families in question...

If it was the same two families then it should be a valid factor as long as the family is not worse off by not being allocated that house.

If on the other hand there is good reason to house them there (which presumably the committee who decided that it was thought so) then why should the minister be jumping around making promises?

MagicSean

seamus wrote: »

From the journal piece:

In that context, it would seem reasonable that if the McCarthy family were in dispute with another family, that they would avoid housing the two in close proximity. Don't see any issue there.

Does anyone have an actual copy of the letter so it can be read in full context?

This is my view too. I think he should be sacked but not because of this fiasco just because he is generally pretty bad.

Ash.J.Williams

All he did wrong was send a letter looking for "high fives" afterwards.

Fenian Army

seamus wrote: »

From the journal piece:

In that context, it would seem reasonable that if the McCarthy family were in dispute with another family, that they would avoid housing the two in close proximity. Don't see any issue there.

Does anyone have an actual copy of the letter so it can be read in full context?

Yeah, settled people never have fights... and we all know travelers always fight, and never stop right? And that every member of the families feuding are violent thugs?

And that deep down travellers are not civilized people, but as an Irish judge recently put it, Neanderthals.

For gods sake.

Prejudice against travelers and poor people are the last two forms of blatant discrimination that are acceptable.

Slurryface

MagicSean wrote: »

I'm no fan of Mr Hogan. I find him to be a terrible politician and useless as regards his job but i think this situation has been twisted

My understanding of this is as following. The council had plans to move a family into a house. A number of residents contacted Phil Hogan as their representative to complain about this proposed move as the family in question had a history of anti-social behaviour and were involved in a feud with another resident family. Phil Hogan then wrote to the council and informed them of this and asked that the family not be placed there. He then wrote to the people who had contacted him and told them the famly would not be moved in. The council promptly ignored his request and moved them in anyway.

If this is indeed the case serious questions need to be asked of why the council moved in a family involved in a feud with other residents despite being told of this problem. Did they do it because they go in a huff about Phil getting involved?

Now as it turns out this family is a traveller family. Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein have jumped on this as proof Phil Hogan is a racist. i find this to be ridiculous. If a family is badly behaved they should be treated as such. They do not deserve some kind of immunity because they happen to be travellers. Any kind of different treatment based on ethnicity, even good treatment, is surely inherently racist.

Now my understanding is based on what I've read on this so far today so it's possible I'm incorrect. But based on the facts I have stated above i believe that the only criticism Phil Hogan deserves in this situation is that he should not have written to his constituents prematurely. Maybe he thought his influence was more than it actually was. Or maybe the council paniced when they heard about the letter and feared they would be called racist. Whatever the case it was a stupid thing to do. But otherwise i don't see anything wrong with what he has done.

Any chance you can provide any evidence of either the anti social behaviour or the alleged fued and this families part in it. Clearly the council would have investigated any allegations placed before it.
I am surprised at the rush to accept anecdotal evidence given by what might well be just a handful of redneck bigots rather than to deal with the facts as actually established.

Pawwed Rig

MagicSean wrote: »

But otherwise i don't see anything wrong with what he has done.

He has no business involving himself in local council matters. If the locals had an issue they should have approached their elected representatives in the local council rather than a national politician/minister.

I am not commenting on this specific case as it is not the point of the thread but in your scenario those areas that have a minister would be in an advantage to other areas with no minister. This goes against the whole notion of a republic and a county council system.
Hogan should be focusing on his own job. If he has spare time he could give a dig out down at the department of health. A national politician should definitely not be interfering in councils housing arrangements.

southsiderosie

MOD NOTE:

Can people posting on this thread please link to the appropriate article if you are going to make claims about the letter involved or the family involved. "Word on the street" is not going to cut it here.

seamus

Fenian Army wrote: »

Yeah, settled people never have fights... and we all know travelers always fight, and never stop right? And that every member of the families feuding are violent thugs?

And that deep down travellers are not civilized people, but as an Irish judge recently put it, Neanderthals.

For gods sake.

Prejudice against travelers and poor people are the last two forms of blatant discrimination that are acceptable.

I have no idea what part of my post triggered that diatribe of nonsense.

You'll notice I didn't refer to whether the families are settled or traveller.

If two families are known to be in dispute, then when seeking to allocate housing, it would make sense not to house one near the other, for the benefit both of those families and their local community.

This is regardless of whether they're travellers or not. Surely that's reasonable?

MagicSean

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

He has no business involving himself in local council matters. If the locals had an issue they should have approached their elected representatives in the local council rather than a national politician/minister.

I am not commenting on this specific case as it is not the point of the thread but in your scenario those areas that have a minister would be in an advantage to other areas with no minister. This goes against the whole notion of a republic and a county council system.
Hogan should be focusing on his own job. If he has spare time he could give a dig out down at the department of health. A national politician should definitely not be interfering in councils housing arrangements.

If ministers didn't get involved in local issues then they would never get elected for a second term. As has been shown in this case, he had no power to change anything but he was perfectly entitled to have his say.

antoobrien

Slurryface wrote: »

Any chance you can provide any evidence of either the anti social behaviour

It's hard to find a link to the letter, but here's a comment made by Hogan about the matter

"This is not anything to do with the Carty family per se, but an anti-social behaviour issue, which I have to bring to the attention of the Council if local people there have certain concerns.

Sierra Oscar

antoobrien wrote: »

Has anybody seen the latter or is this a case of calling racism because there's a traveller family involved?

The letter itself has been published in the Irish Daily Mail, and was shown on Vincent Browne last night.

It is a short letter, I cannot remember the exact wording, but it simply states that the family in question would not be getting a house in the area and that he (Phil Hogan) was glad to be of assistance in the matter. The letter also names the family in question, which is an absolute disgrace in my view considering it was sent to a number of constituents. It will be interesting to see the rest of the correspondence on the matter, as this is clearly just the tail end of the story. In particular, his representation to the council should illuminate the situation further.

It is a gross abuse of power for the Minister to be interfering in the process and it is also likely to be illegal - however leaving that aside it is just plain bad form the way the Minister humiliated the family in such a way. The family does not even have a record of criminality or anti-social behaviour.

What makes it worse is the fact that Hogan, being the brute that he is, is not even apologetic in regards the matter.

antoobrien

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The letter itself has been published in the Irish Daily Mail, and was shown on Vincent Browne last night.

Post the link then

Sierra Oscar

antoobrien wrote: »

Post the link then

Here you go - 22:13 in to be precise.

Also worth nothing that, according to the author of the article, the Gardai have launched an investigation into alleged harassment being directed at the family (specifically in once case a family member was threatened that he could be shot via a letter received).

Slurryface

MagicSean wrote: »

If ministers didn't get involved in local issues then they would never get elected for a second term. As has been shown in this case, he had no power to change anything but he was perfectly entitled to have his say.

He was most certainly NOT entitled to assure those who contacted him that he would ensure the family were not housed, as is their right to be.

MagicSean

Slurryface wrote: »

He was most certainly NOT entitled to assure those who contacted him that he would ensure the family were not housed, as is their right to be.

Yes I said that was a stupid thing to have done.

Lantus

There are 3 things wrong with what has happened here: -

1/ I'm sure most of us have received letters by councillers and TD's who claim to of 'solved' or been instrumental in dealing with local issues. Most of these in my experience tend to be gross exagerations. In several cases we have have local representatives find out about things our Residents association has done and then take that information and send everyone a letter claiming that they were 'instrumental' in helping to achieve this. In some cases for example they use reports that the public would be hard pushed to get a hold of to announce that they are going to get much needed traffic lights installed when an independant traffic reports requires anyway and claim that they are the big fish making this happen.

Its all about securing votes at a local level.
Its about maintaining their support and power base.
Its about keeping their jobs and pensions.

Its also very hard to question their claims as individual houses for the most part would have no interest to do so or inclination. Or any real ability to know where to look for the information to dispute it.

The wording is also so 'vague' that even though it is obvious they are trying to take credit they can easily wriggle out of it by saying that they were part of a meeting or were just kept in the loop. One of the womnderful things about how we an manipulate the language to mean what we want it to mean.

2/ Naming another family is severly wrong. Surely a data protection issue here? Morally and ethically I find it very disturbing.

3/ taking pleasure in seeing a family excluded from a certain part of society. Again morally wrong and only serves to highlight the fact that TDs are unable to solve problems.

antoobrien

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Here you go - 22:13 in to be precise.

You could have warned us that there was about 2 minutes of ads to wade through

So anyhow, the text of the letter reads:

Just a note to let you know that the Carthy family will not be allocated a house in your area.

An another quote from Hogan

The Minister denied his letter was in any way discriminatory and said he acted in good faith in responding to the concerns of local people and rejected suggestions he had put pressure on the local authority not to house the McCarthy family.

"I brought (the letter) in good faith on behalf of the local people the concerns they had. The decisions were made by the country manager and the director of housing, and I didn't ask them to change the decision," he said.

“If families make representations to me, as a local deputy I have to respond
and I have to give that information which they may not have been aware of in the local authority,” he added.

It appears that Hogan was responding to letters/representations made to him by his constituents, who presumably would have named the family whom they were objecting to being housed in the area (I know I would name any person/organisation I was complaining about in a letter if I were in a similar situation), so I think it's natural they he would respond with the name of the family in any subsequent correspondence so I don't see the big deal there.

Apart from the stating that the family would not be housed, I don't see that he did anything unusual.

Happyman42

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I am not commenting on this specific case as it is not the point of the thread but in your scenario those areas that have a minister would be in an advantage to other areas with no minister. This goes against the whole notion of a republic and a county council system.
Hogan should be focusing on his own job. If he has spare time he could give a dig out down at the department of health. A national politician should definitely not be interfering in councils housing arrangements.

That is exactly what I am getting at, not the traveller aspect.
Seems to me this debate is long over due in the house. A very clear delineation of the duties of a TD needs to be discussed and the way we elect representatives to the Dail

Happyman42

southsiderosie wrote: »

MOD NOTE:

Can people posting on this thread please link to the appropriate article if you are going to make claims about the letter involved or the family involved. "Word on the street" is not going to cut it here.

Why merge? It's just gonna be a mess of a thread now. :mad:

spank_inferno

The reality is, local patronage is the same here as it is for every democracy in the world.
We call it parish-pump, the USA call it 'pork'.

I do wonder though... what was the motivation of the housing officer / manager who signed off on moving this family into said area?
It's probable they knew of the local opposition to the move and the reasons behind it.

Phil Hogan was asked by his constituants to represent them on this matter.
He did so.
He (stupidly) wrote a "high-five" letter claiming the win.

Yes it may have overstepped his mandate.
However what mandate does the housing officer who sanctioned the move have? Are they completely unanswerable to the citizens of that town?

seamus

antoobrien wrote: »

It appears that Hogan was responding to letters/representations made to him by his constituents, who presumably would have named the family whom they were objecting to being housed in the area (I know I would name any person/organisation I was complaining about in a letter if I were in a similar situation), so I think it's natural they he would respond with the name of the family in any subsequent correspondence so I don't see the big deal there.

Apart from the stating that the family would not be housed, I don't see that he did anything unusual.

It's not great, that's about the best way I can put it.

Even if he was corresponding directly with people who had named the family, I don't think it was appropriate to have given out the detail of the housing authority's decision, as this is effectively private information pertaining to the family in question.

A more appropriate response would have been along the lines of

---

Dear <Name>,

Thank you for your recent correspondence in relation to housing matters in <area>, and have received similar correspondence from a number of local residents. The issue of anti-social behaviour is a serious one which I do not take lightly.

Housing allocation is a matter for the county manager and the director of housing, and the decision they have made in this matter has satisfied me that it will not cause the community to be impacted by anti-social behaviour.

I trust this will be to your satisfaction.

etc...

---

Exact same thing, but without revealing any information or making yourself look like an idiot.

Sierra Oscar

antoobrien wrote: »

It appears that Hogan was responding to letters/representations made to him by his constituents, who presumably would have named the family whom they were objecting to being housed in the area (I know I would name any person/organisation I was complaining about in a letter if I were in a similar situation), so I think it's natural they he would respond with the name of the family in any subsequent correspondence so I don't see the big deal there.

Apart from the stating that the family would not be housed, I don't see that he did anything unusual.

It would seem that Mr Hogan made representations to the council on the matter, and we all know only too well that Ministers have a great amount of influence over the decisions undertaken by the County Manager and his team - Mr Hogan's influence would be even greater than other ministers considering the fact that he controls the Department of Local Government.

So far Mr Hogan has refused to detail his representations to the council on the matter - that in itself it suspicious.

In anycase, he should not have divulged the information in the way he did - and he clearly wanted to claim the 'credit' associated with this family being denied housing.

antoobrien

seamus wrote: »

Even if he was corresponding directly with people who had named the family, I don't think it was appropriate to have given out the detail of the housing authority's decision, as this is effectively private information pertaining to the family in question.

I don't get how you think it's private information, as it will also the person/people that made the original representation as well (assuming they are local), especially considering the fact that they'll find out son enough if the family in question move in. E.g. It's not an invasion of privacy if I rent a house and my landlord says to my future neighbours there's a young lad from Galway moving in.

The only thing that bothers me about the whole affair is where he got his information out of, either he told that they wouldn't be housed there and passed this information on in good faith (assuming that the family Carthy/McCarthy family had also been told) or he was being pig headed and assumed that because he wrote a letter the council officers would see things his way (if they're anything like the shower we have in Galway that was never going to happen).

If it's the latter, then he should resign for being a blithering idiot, but if it was the former then there are serious questions to be asked as to why he was mislead.

Technocentral

Typical isn't it? A basically decent person like Shorthall resigns whereas the prejudiced low life's like Hogan never do.

Merch

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

T
The family does not even have a record of criminality or anti-social behaviour.

Maybe they dont, I know of a family like that too, known but have no real record, when I told them I would report them regarding their actions, I was discreetly threatened.
I've no doubt why people like this have no record.

Pawwed Rig

It is the ones without a record you have to be careful of then yeah?:rolleyes:

Merch

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It is the ones without a record you have to be careful of then yeah?:rolleyes:

You said that, Im saying I was threatened when i said id report someone for an activity they are involved in, some people dont have records because they dont have a reason to have one, others dont have one but do.