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petition for range in south east
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23-09-2012 03:33PM#1any one in the south east interested in signing this petition lads..
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/rangesoutheast/
saw it on another web site and tought i would spread it around
ian,,,,0
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There's certainly a few comedians allright. They give the PTB more than a few laughs, if half of what I've heard over the last few decades has even a grain of truth to it....
Some of the jokes would include......................
the divide & conquer regime the DOJ use with the help of some of the shooting organisations to make sure shooting is kept under the cosh
the way some can reload & others can't but have been told it'll be sorted soon
the Commissioners Guidelines and they wat they have already been changed to suit the Gardas' agenda against pistols, wonder what'll be next?
the way we can't even zero a rifle anywhere except on a range
that under 14's can't shoot, even on a range
that there are now so many variables with setting up a range that it's gonna be very hard to see anymore being built as if something as simple as the local Super disapproves it's dead in the water
the postcode lottery with regard to licencing
I could go on
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This is not about competition. You could build another 10 ranges, and it still would not be enough in my opinion. There are also (i believe) member caps on ranges. So you cannot have a range with 1,000/10,000/100,000 members. So even if there were thousands lining up a range can only have so many members. I stand to be corrected on that.pardon the pun but if this is a genuine a little competition never hurt
I am not against a new range. If it were to go ahead i, and many others i know, would volunteer their time to help build it. More ranges, more shooters, the sport grows, etc.Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.
Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo
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EireIceMan wrote: »Ez, Can you show me the 'dig, insult and jibes' at the other range???
Read the opening paragraph of that petition:
That's a ridiculous dig to be taking at the midlands. The reason there's only one thousand yard range in the country is because only one group got up and built one. There's not one single rule or law banning anyone else from doing it, and the lads who built the Midlands have offered to help others do the same more than once, but the offer's never been taken up.It is a joke that everyone has to join the one and only 1000 yard range. This is up to and over a three hour journey to get there for many. We deserve a choice and not have to be limited to the one range. As usual this is the Irish way of monopolising and exploiting registered firearms owners.
Okay, let's take a look will we?Range Shooter wrote: »Some of the jokes would include......................
Divide and conquer might well work; which is why it's so odd that the FCP, which had everyone at the same table, got destroyed -- not by the DoJ, but by shooters.the divide & conquer regime the DOJ use with the help of some of the shooting organisations to make sure shooting is kept under the cosh
Yeah, it's almost like only one group asked for it and fought for it, isn't it? And isn't the delay in the legislation almost like we had a change of government in the meantime?the way some can reload & others can't but have been told it'll be sorted soon
Agreed, those guidelines are naff. But they're not written by shooters...the Commissioners Guidelines and they wat they have already been changed to suit the Gardas' agenda against pistols, wonder what'll be next?
Yup, and we've been saying that's naff since McDowell brought it in back in 2004.the way we can't even zero a rifle anywhere except on a range
That's just not true. U-14s can't shoot outside of a range, and they can't have a licence; but there's no age limit in Section 2(4)(d).that under 14's can't shoot, even on a range
Yup. It's a difficult thing to build a range.that there are now so many variables with setting up a range that it's gonna be very hard to see anymore being built as if something as simple as the local Super disapproves it's dead in the water
Best response to that is definitely to get in a dig against the existing ranges :rolleyes:
Yup. That's also been complained about since long before I started shooting.the postcode lottery with regard to licencing
Could you either find something that's not been known about and complained about for decades, or something that's actually correct?I could go on
'Cos the jokes I'm thinking of are things like private clubs asking for a monopoly on giving out pistol licences; groups trying to obtain other groups' grants under false pretences and making a show of themselves in the process; people youtubing themselves breaking the firearms act in just about every dumbass way you could think of and then posting up those videos all over the place with faces and licence plates of cars clearly visible; people detailing in public forums how they've broken, are breaking, and plan to continue breaking the firearms acts despite knowing that's what they're doing; and so on.
You want to know what really kicks efforts to fix the problems you mentioned above in the head? It's idiots who so blatently make idiots of themselves. Their names and acts get thrown back in the faces of those trying to actually fix problems. And that is why we can't have nice things.0 -
Without derailing the thread with yet another pointless debate on reloading they control nothing. The were issued a "license" to run a reloading scheme. The DoJ also control this. Only one other association other than the MNSCI/NRAI applied for it. So do you expect a knock on the door with the DoJ offering you reloading especially after the NARGC and other bodies on numerous occasions refused it?Range Shooter wrote: »and they have the monopoly on reloading ................................ so hardly a dig
Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.
Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo
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Not by design.
By default so
Plus if a second range were to open that "monopoly" would vanish. The midlands are run under the same rules as any other range. They control nothing, and must conform as others must.
Agreed.
BUT
The precedent has been set. DOJ will now probably refuse reloading in the home and may now advise someone who asks to reload to join Midlands and shoot long range :eek:Also what about the second part of that quote. Exploiting registered firearms owners.
The exploitation part..................I have nothing to add to that unless you do?0 -
Monopoly - The exclusive possession or control of the supply or trade in a commodity or service.Range Shooter wrote: »By default so
The midlands control nothing. The open, work, run under the control of the DoJ, and local Super. All this can be taken away if either of those deem it necessary. So whatever way you feel you need to describe the midlands i doubt i'm going to change your mind, and am not really inclined to try.
And how would it work if the midlands refused reloading the same as EVERY OTHER organisation. Reloading at a range would not be possible, let alone at home. Again though really not inform for a relaoding debate. A search of Boards will show you all the exhausted previous debates on the matter.The precedent has been set. DOJ will now probably refuse reloading in the home and may now advise someone who asks to reload to join Midlands and shoot long range :eek:
Why focus on the monopoly part and ignore this simply because you cannot explain it away or rationalise it.The exploitation part..................I have nothing to add to that unless you do?
The person that wrote that petition introduction obviously chose their words carefully, and have said that the MNSCI are exploiting Irish shooters. A fairly serious accusation.Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.
Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo
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Divide and conquer might well work; which is why it's so odd that the FCP, which had everyone at the same table, got destroyed -- not by the DoJ, but by shooters.
The often lorded FCP........................it was a PR exercise by the DOJ and when some of the "shooters" refused to cow down DOJ pulled the plugYeah, it's almost like only one group asked for it and fought for it, isn't it? And isn't the delay in the legislation almost like we had a change of government in the meantime?
And set a precedent that'll probably mean that relaoding at home will never materialiseAgreed, those guidelines are naff. But they're not written by shooters....
So there was no FCP input?Yup, and we've been saying that's naff since McDowell brought it in back in 2004.
So why didn't your FCP sort it so?That's just not true. U-14s can't shoot outside of a range, and they can't have a licence; but there's no age limit in Section 2(4)(d).
Not if the range has it in it's authorisation that onlt licence holders can shoot thereYup. It's a difficult thing to build a range.
Best response to that is definitely to get in a dig against the existing ranges :rolleyes:.
Where did I have a digYup. That's also been complained about since long before I started shooting..
Once again I have to wonder wht the FCP didn't sort it soCould you either find something that's not been known about and complained about for decades, or something that's actually correct?.
The fact it is known about & complained about and that there was an FCP to sort all these problems and they are still there makes me wonder alright :rolleyes:'Cos the jokes I'm thinking of are things like private clubs asking for a monopoly on giving out pistol licences; groups trying to obtain other groups' grants under false pretences and making a show of themselves in the process; people youtubing themselves breaking the firearms act in just about every dumbass way you could think of and then posting up those videos all over the place with faces and licence plates of cars clearly visible; people detailing in public forums how they've broken, are breaking, and plan to continue breaking the firearms acts despite knowing that's what they're doing; and so on..
So the NTSA never made submissions to DOJ?
There is a lot of ****e on Utube & here that makes shooters look bad. Maybe shutting this forum down would be a good start so ?You want to know what really kicks efforts to fix the problems you mentioned above in the head? It's idiots who so blatently make idiots of themselves. Their names and acts get thrown back in the faces of those trying to actually fix problems. And that is why we can't have nice things.
So selfless these "people" trying to help the rest of us out :cool:
"Nice things" I have nice things :cool: 0 -
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What a load of bollocks.Range Shooter wrote: »The often lorded FCP........................it was a PR exercise by the DOJ and when some of the "shooters" refused to cow down DOJ pulled the plug
Refused to cow down? You mean took hugely expensive court cases that never could have achieved anything and whose sole gains were signed away in back rooms. And those same people are now calling for an FCP 2.0.
Not to mention that the NARGC and CAI are now off trying to set up a mini-FCP. And that'll just open the floodgates and we'll be right back to where we were, circa 2003. The most important part of which is what happened in 2004...
Again, bollocks. The midlands effort means that reloading has been done, publicly, safely, visibly, by shooters. That's a positive step that would never had happened under the aegis of groups like the NARGC who told the DoJ that no hunters wanted to reload; nor under any other group who just never fought for it as hard as the midlands lot did.And set a precedent that'll probably mean that relaoding at home will never materialise
Begrudgery of the worst type, this.
Would have been hard, since the FCP wasn't founded until a few years afterwards.So there was no FCP input?
Again, it wasn't founded until years later. And it probably could have fixed it; it was far more effective than certain folks with their own agendas have said it was; but it never had the time to do so because shooters smothered it in the crib.So why didn't your FCP sort it so?
Yup. But that's not a mandatory part of the authorisation, it's the whim of the Super.Not if the range has it in it's authorisation that onlt licence holders can shoot there
Again, FCP wasn't founded yet - for decades in this case - and it never got the chance to get to it because shooters sabotaged it for no clear gains.Once again I have to wonder wht the FCP didn't sort it so
Not after the founding of the FCP, no.So the NTSA never made submissions to DOJ?
Before then, yes; there was no other choice. The level of effort involved though, meant that that was not welcome and did not benefit the sport.
There's no illegal stuff on here; read the forum charter.There is a lot of ****e on Utube & here that makes shooters look bad. Maybe shutting this forum down would be a good start so ?
And there you go with the subtle digs and insinuations again. Why can't Irish shooters try to organise even things that everyone agrees are good without that sort of ****e?So selfless these "people" trying to help the rest of us out :cool:
Got one licence for all your firearms, do you? Unregulated low-power airguns? Can zero your rifle before hunting without breaking the law?"Nice things" I have nice things :cool:
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Why focus on the monopoly part and ignore this simply because you cannot explain it away or rationalise it.
Why would I comment on that?
Are people being exploited there or something?
Surely if someone pays their membership and uses the facilities they aren't being exploitedThe person that wrote that petition introduction obviously chose their words carefully, and have said that the MNSCI are exploiting Irish shooters. A fairly serious accusation.
So maybe you should ask them what they mean so 0 -
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If someone has a million euro to invest in a range that never will make much of a profit, then good luck to them; but I think we both know that that's not the case here and that that petition is just someone asking idly. Nothing wrong with that either; except that they couldn't ask idly without getting in a dig at people.it looks to me like whoever it is is "putting up" rather than shutting up by doing some research into seeing is it viable venture for the south east
I mean FFS lads, you're supposed to wait until you've founded the range before you start telling porkies about the "competition"
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Sparks,
I though bad language wasn't allowed on the forum? Oh ya. you're a Mod so you can do & post what you like
My point, which you so eloquently ignore, is that all the problems that did & still do exist were NOT sorted by your beloved FCP when it did exist.
So the court cases didn't work BUT neither did the FCP
Until shooters convince the serving or any potential Government that we are a big enough voting group to make a difference in a election all the court cases & FCP's are a complete waste of time
On that note I'll retire from this discussion 0 -
No. It looks like "them feckers have all the shooters, money, etc, etc so after i slate them i'll see if people agree by having them sign my petition".it really looks no more different than someone saying "hey we only have one shop in the village and it has feck all in it,the village is growing,i know ill open one myself"
The person that wrote the petition introduction is.EireIceMan wrote: »Ez, no one is giving out about midlands???
This one;My question is still there.
I answered that already;EireIceMan wrote: »Ez, Can you show me the 'dig, insult and jibes' at the other range???
How would you take it?As usual this is the Irish way of monopolising and exploiting registered firearms owners.
Because you have commented on everything else bar that. IOW selective quoting.Range Shooter wrote: »Why would I comment on that?
Please don't start that "is it happening" crap. It is a poor deflection, and does not hide the fact that you have an opinion on every other aspect, but will not answer this one directly.Are people being exploited there or something?
I'm asking you your opinion. The person signed of with a pseudonym so i don't know who they are.Surely if someone pays their membership and uses the facilities they aren't being exploited:confused
So maybe you should ask them what they mean so
So you agree then that the comment of exploiting members is crap. I would like to ask the OP, but who is it? How would i make contact with them.Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.
Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo
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If bad language was against the charter, half the posters here (if not three quarters of them) would be banned. The worse exccesses get toned down every so often when the forum as a whole is taking a wobbler, but nobody's ever been banned for bad language. Being a dick, yeah, we've banned seven people in eight years for that offence. Hardliners, that's us...Range Shooter wrote: »Sparks,
I though bad language wasn't allowed on the forum? Oh ya. you're a Mod so you can do & post what you like
And my point, which you're ignoring with all the grace of a bull in an industrial plastic shredder, is that the problems were not stopped from arising by the FCP because they arose before the FCP was founded; and they weren't solved by the FCP because shooters smothered the FCP in the crib before that could happen. If it had had more time, the FCP could have solved most of the problems. It wouldn't have been terribly sexy and dramatic, people wouldn't have gotten their names in the paper as leading the charge, it was a quieter process, whose outcome was more binding and longer-lasting than adversarial court cases and whose approach was more realisitic than sending in illegal proposals on the sly; but it would have gotten the job done and to anyone who was results-oriented, it was a better solution than anything we've had before or since.My point, which you so eloquently ignore, is that all the problems that did & still do exist were NOT sorted by your beloved FCP when it did exist.
Do you like your pre-populated licence form? Do you like being able to licence pistols, and having a quick and easy legal method to reintroduce fullbore pistols and amend the conditions on the smallbore pistols being licenced now?So the court cases didn't work BUT neither did the FCP
We didn't get those through court cases (and we've had lots of other threads listing the other things the FCP was able to solve before our own side sank it).
Until you re-reg again you mean bunny shooter?On that note I'll retire from this discussion
Try to learn what actually happened next time, would you?0 -
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