Bayonetta 2

gizmo

Picked up the WiiU on Friday.

Still two weeks to wait till launch.

'Saaaaaaaaaaaake.

panevthe3rd

gizmo wrote: »

Picked up the WiiU on Friday.

Still two weeks to wait till launch.

'Saaaaaaaaaaaake.

Try "wonderful 101" while you wait. A platinum classic.

gizmo

panevthe3rd wrote: »

Try "wonderful 101" while you wait. A platinum classic.

It's very high on my list alright but I'm using the next two weeks to clear some more of my backlog before the WiiU binge begins.

From the Kotaku review...

This sequel's combat feel comes across as an evolution of not just what it's predecessor did, but also as the sharpest edge of game design that puts solo skill-based action above all else.

Not only exactly what I wanted to hear but also possibly the greatest compliment one could pay such a game.

richymcdermott

Polygon review gave me the biggest migraine Headache I had in quite sometime and I am just recovered from sickness in the last couple of days -_-

wes

richymcdermott wrote: »

Polygon review gave me the biggest migraine Headache I had in quite sometime and I am just recovered from sickness in the last couple of days -_-

Gave me a good laugh. WTF, were they expecting with a Bayonetta game, exactly? Seriously they have lost the plot imho.

CiDeRmAn

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Not going near the demo, hate playing sections out of context like that when I know I'm going to play the game anyway. From my perspective, I don't think there's a safer bet (ie will most definitely play as soon as reasonably possible) in gaming than Bayonetta 2

From what I can see it's the prologue of the game, so safe to dip into.

richymcdermott

richymcdermott wrote: »

Polygon review gave me the biggest migraine Headache I had in quite sometime and I am just recovered from sickness in the last couple of days -_-

The same bull****e from this website. Unbelievable. Again they use the 'hyper-sexualised' doozy

gizmo

richymcdermott wrote: »

Polygon review gave me the biggest migraine Headache I had in quite sometime and I am just recovered from sickness in the last couple of days -_-

Not a fan of Gies reviews and the Bayonetta 2 one sure as hell isn't going to change that.

That being said, it does provide a perfect example of how one reviewers opinion can colour both the body of the review and accompanying score and why it's so important to not just rely on one site or reviewer for info on a game.

blag

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Not going near the demo, hate playing sections out of context like that when I know I'm going to play the game anyway. From my perspective, I don't think there's a safer bet (ie will most definitely play as soon as reasonably possible) in gaming than Bayonetta 2

It's a game played for the combat, not a whole lot to take out of context
I played the demo a few times over the weekend and loved every second of it, great to hear the ring of those pure platinum medals at the end of a verse again!

Banjo

wes wrote: »

Gave me a good laugh. WTF, were they expecting with a Bayonetta game, exactly? Seriously they have lost the plot imho.

I don't see the problem. It's not like this is a copy of Hustler. It's a video game, it's on a Nintendo platform - and they are notorious (unjustifiably at this point) for their family image - and it's a flagship game that's supposed to have broad gamer appeal. This is not the 90's. Gaming is no longer the preserve of children and adolescent males. I don't think, all things considered, that they should be derided for making sure anyone looking to buy this game knows that they are getting an excellent combo-driven combat game that comes with mandatory virtual lapdances. I can see how it would be jarring. Hell, I'm reading that review and wondering how comfortable playing this with my wife on the other end of the couch is going to be, and having second thoughts about my pre-order. And also coming up with costume suggestions for her for halloween.

Bear in mind, Bayonetta didn't get a Ninty release. I know most people on boards don't want to accept it but there are people who don't own 2 or 3 consoles from each generation. There are people who were committed and bound to the Wii and missed out on Bayonetta along with a lot of GTAs, Uncharteds and Halos. And they don't necessarily know what they're letting themselves in for. Because they haven't looked at the glorious spandex-clad arse shot on the cover.

gizmo

Banjo wrote: »

I don't see the problem. It's not like this is a copy of Hustler. It's a video game, it's on a Nintendo platform - and they are notorious (unjustifiably at this point) for their family image - and it's a flagship game that's supposed to have broad gamer appeal. This is not the 90's. Gaming is no longer the preserve of children and adolescent males. I don't think, all things considered, that they should be derided for making sure anyone looking to buy this game knows that they are getting an excellent combo-driven combat game that comes with mandatory virtual lapdances. I can see how it would be jarring. Hell, I'm reading that review and wondering how comfortable playing this with my wife on the other end of the couch is going to be, and having second thoughts about my pre-order. And also coming up with costume suggestions for her for halloween.

Bear in mind, Bayonetta didn't get a Ninty release. I know most people on boards don't want to accept it but there are people who don't own 2 or 3 consoles from each generation. There are people who were committed and bound to the Wii and missed out on Bayonetta along with a lot of GTAs, Uncharteds and Halos. And they don't necessarily know what they're letting themselves in for. Because they haven't looked at the glorious spandex-clad arse shot on the cover.

You're not the only one to be fair. After much convincing I eventually got a colleague in work to play it earlier in the year. Even after relenting he still waited until the missus was away for a weekend because he reckoned he'd feel embarrassed playing it around her.

That being said, he still loved it and will be adopting the same approach for the sequel. :pac:

Xenji

All very favourable reviews except for the last two, the wait is gonna kill me.

GameSpot - 10

Bayonetta 2's combat is so expertly constructed, and its presentation so joyously insane, that you'd have to try so very hard to get bored of it all. In a year filled with the promise of ever more elaborate experiences on all the shiny new hardware, that Bayonetta 2--a homage to classic game design and escapism--should be the most fun I've had playing a game all year is unexpected. But maybe it shouldn't have been. After all, its predecessor still stands as one of the finest games of its genre. To have surpassed that with Bayonetta 2, and to have created a game that will be remembered as an absolute classic, is nothing short of astonishing.

Edge - 10

Sega's loss is Nintendo's gain: Bayonetta, twirling away from a gigantic demon's maw and smacking the highest choir of angels on the nose, has just given Wii U its first true classic.

Eurogamer Germany - 10

Buy it if you liked the first one. Buy it, if you love it. Buy it if you love video games. Buy a Wii U if you have to. Bayonetta 2 sings all its praises in a celebration to this hobby of ours. But don't make the mistake of not playing it.

Destructoid - 10

When Bayonetta came out in 2010, I thought it was nearly perfect. Four years later and Platinum hasn't lost its edge with Bayonetta 2. It's just as stylish and as fun as ever, and a must-buy for action fans who own a Wii U.

Nintendo Insider - 10

Bigger, badder and exquisitely better, Bayonetta 2 knocks its predecessor off its enviable perch to become perhaps the greatest action game of all time. From the word go, it will send your adrenaline into overdrive as you venture on a quest that will take you to the very depths of Hell and back. The plethora of unlockables promise to keep you coming back for more in new and refreshing ways, while Tag Climax suitably extends the experience beyond a purely solo offering in a richly rewarding way. Bayonetta 2 is game of the year material without a doubt, and a worthy purchase for any action fan.

God Is A Geek - 10

Intense, gorgeous and thrilling to play, this is Platinum’s best game so far. Nintendo have clearly had an input here, with a game that’s more forgiving for new players, but still has enough challenge for fans; all without watering down or compromising the experience for either type of player. A non-stop climax of excitement from the moment you start the Prologue, this is one of those games that demands to be played.

FNintendo - 10

Quite possibly the best action game ever made, Bayonetta 2 is a pure gem of wonder, filled with epic fights, perfect gameplay, a magnificent visual and sound environment and even a multiplayer mode which fits perfectly within the format. A diabolical masterpiece that no Wii U should go without.

Joystiq - 5/5

If you bought the Wii U months ago explicitly in anticipation of Bayonetta 2, congratulations, your decision has paid off in spades.
Gameblog.fr - 5/5

With Bayonetta 2, Wii U has its trump card: a queen of spades that takes advantages on almost every game of the genre and hits us right in the heart. It's an outstanding production, beautifully executed, with state of the art mechanics and ridiculously generous. And it can be enjoyed by everyone as its difficulty and handling can be adjusted. Definitely a beat them all no one has the right to ignore.

GameXplain - Loved

Bayonetta 2 is an utterly fantastic action game, perhaps even the peak of its genre.

Kotaku - YES

Just thinking about how the developers at Platinum will surpass the excesses on display in this month's release is enough to rub a body raw. Bayonetta 2's combat design remains robust enough to be a very strong main attraction. But any emotions stirred up during my time with Bayonetta wound up feeling shallow. I'm glad for those times when I kicked ass in a stylish manner but still found myself bemoaning the terrible storytelling I endured to do that. If Platinum somehow manages to shore up those failings, the next encounter with Bayonetta won't just be a pantomine of lust. It might turn into love.

IGN - 9.5

Every aspect of Bayonetta 2 feels polished and focused. At times, the writing feels ridiculous, but I still love how it plays. The superb pacing and combat are just that good. By the end I was convinced: This sequel builds on everything that made the original great, and delivers one of the most satisfying action games I've played.

GameSided - 9.5

Bayonetta 2 is what character action games should strive to be. Its excellent combat system drives home an intensly-intricate story that builds a universe completely discernable as its own. Platinum Games did an excellent job continuing the story from the original Bayonetta without losing a beat, transferring that pure essence of heart to the sequel 5 years later. With a deep soundtrack and marvelous settings, the art style makes up for minor shortcomings on technical and purely-graphical limitations of the Wii U. The added feature of the original game included in the retail package is just the cherry on the top. Bayonetta is back, and she's much, much more than just a pretty face.

Wiitalia - 9.5

Bayonetta 2 is one of the best action games ever released. Visually impressive, its relentless gameplay is fast and packed with tons of stuffs to do and experiment. This game is totally classy, and the first one included in the package is just the cherry on the top.Don't miss Bayonetta 2 (but be careful at the final boss!).

Famitsu - 38/40

Official Nintendo Magazine - 93%

Cheat Code Central - 4.6/5

It's absolutely a pure Bayonetta game, it's an absolute blast to play, and it absolutely belongs on Nintendo's growing roster of excellently crafted games for the Wii U.

4Gamers - 91/100

The queen of the action games is back. Bayonetta 2 manages to impress in almost every aspect with a combination of non-stop action, adrenaline, a bit of naughtiness and really responsive controls. The story and atmosphere might not suit everyone, but even the biggest pessimists will have to recognize that in terms of gameplay this game is among the best. With Bayonetta 2, the developers have succeeded in making the game very accessible for newcomers, while maintaining the depth of it for the hardcore gamers. Future action games will have a hard time topping this, because Bayonetta 2 managed to push the bar very high for this genre. If you didn't have a reason to buy a Wii U, then Bayonetta 2 is an excellent one to do so.

Game Informer - 9

Creating a sequel to an already-polished game is a challenge, but Platinum Games’ approach ultimately succeeds. Bayonetta 2 is rooted in its past while taking steps (but not strides) toward the future. Though I was disappointed by some of the familiarity, I was usually having too much fun to care.

CVG - 9

Bayonetta's second adventure offers more of the same peerless action mechanics, barmy spectacle and wonderful depth.

USgamer - 4.5/5

Bayonetta 2 is the high-flying return of everyone's favorite Umbra Witch. Platinum Games pushes to the Wii U to its limit with fast action, magnificent vistas, and huge bosses. The addition of the original Bayonetta just pushes the entire package over the top. If you're a Devil May Cry fan, this is a must-buy.

Metro - 9

The worst thing you can say about Bayonetta 2 is that it’s still not much of an improvement over its predecessor, but even that supposed criticism still confirms it as one of the best action games of all-time. Creating Bayonetta 2 may not make much business sense but unlike most sequels today this isn’t a game made for the love of money, but for the love of gaming itself.

Nintendo Life - 9

Bayonetta is is a must buy for any action gaming fans. It's fast, intense and ridiculous, all with an entertaining story and a protagonist that is forever subverting and playing with her audience. It's pure Platinum Games, too, which means it'll likely be adored by its converts and ignored by too many — we hope that won't happen, as what we have here is one of the Wii U's best games, and a rare arrival on the system that's unashamedly violent, gory and mature, while still mischievously winking at the watching world. Bayonetta 2 is brilliant, brash and impossible to ignore.

TheSixthAxis - 9

Bayonetta 2 is amongst the most refined and dynamic action games to appear on any console, taking the best parts of the original game and building upon them. It is crazy, chaotic and characterful and a genuine pleasure to play.

Digital Chumps - 9.0

Bayonetta 2 expresses a meticulous devotion to excessive elaborateness of style and action. It's a calculated brawler that not only minds its rules with painstaking diligence, but trusts its operator with how to best interpret them. The delicate engineering of merciless destruction has long been Platinum Games' modus operandi, and Bayonetta 2 is the purest and most potent declaration of their intentions.

Lazygamer - 9.0

Bayonetta 2 is something new blended with something familiar, improved in every way possible. Few other games can top it for sheer audacity and ballsiness, and if this is the last time we’ll ever see the leggy witch, then she’s going out with one hell of a bang.

NintendoWorldReport - 9

Bayonetta 2 is one of the best games to ever grace the Wii U. The sequel feels tighter, less obnoxious, and is a blast to play through. While the Wii U GamePad is not used in any significant way, and Tag Climax could have benefited from local co-op, this is the action-packed Bayonetta follow–up that I wanted. Fans of Platinum's outings owe it to themselves to check it out and start exploring the many twists and turns along the journey.

Eurogamer - 9

Bayonetta 2's biggest disappointment may be that it's an iterative sequel, but it's not such a problem when it's iterating on genius.

Eurogamer Italy - 9

Bayonetta 2 is simply awesome. Platinum Games has done a great job improving their previous game, adding small details and creating a gorgeous looking new adventure for the sexy-witch. If you love action games, you can't miss this perfect cocktail of fun gameplay, great graphics and over-the-top humor.

VideoGamer - 9

Bayonetta 2 is a system seller. It's a Nintendo-published game that is rarely seen, and a game that will legitimately make non-Wii U owners jealous. It's everything I want from a hardcore Nintendo title, offering genre-leading combat and eye-popping visual spectacle. The fact that Bayonetta 2 delivers the goods is no surprise. Nintendo being the firm behind its continued survival, however, is a surprise we should be very grateful for.

Gamekult - 9

VentureBeat - 87/100

Bayonetta 2 is surprising. Some of that is because it is an M-rated Wii U exclusive. It’s also because it is a good game in a genre that doesn’t seem long for this world. With everything moving open-world and online, Platinum is still sticking to it’s better zone. And it’s working.

I don’t know if I’ll ever need a Bayonetta 3, but I’m certainly glad that I got to play Bayonetta 2.

GamesRadar - 4/5

Bayonetta 2 is sheer class. Yes, it takes a little too long to get going, given its length, but the final four hours are relentlessly, breathlessly exceptional. Granted, it's all just 'more of the same' with a shorter haircut, but we're talking about more of one of the best games ever made.

Polygon - 7.5

When Platinum Games is on, it's really, really on, and Bayonetta 2 is in almost any respect that counts a better game than the first, whose mechanics were already exemplary. But every time I'd feel on a roll, enjoying my time with Bayonetta 2 immensely, I'd be broken out of it by another cheap shot of T&A. I would be wrecking a flock of angelic or demonic enemies, sliding in and out of witch time almost at will, and then the special weapon I had picked up became a literal stripper pole for Bayonetta to dance on, because ... well, because, I guess.

Game Revolution - 3.5/5

If you’re an action gamer with a Wii U or even an older Nintendo fan with patience enough for Bayonetta’s Moon River remix soundtrack, then summon the strength to face this bad hair day with both guns up. Actually, make it all four guns up. Bayonetta manages to pull it off without tucking her ankles behind her head, though you might strain something if you try it her way.

wes

Banjo wrote: »

I don't see the problem. It's not like this is a copy of Hustler.

The game is very well known for what it is, so yes its not Hustler, its Bayonetta, and to complain about the fan service is pointless. Its Bayonetta, that is one of the things it sets out to do.

Banjo wrote: »

It's a video game, it's on a Nintendo platform - and they are notorious (unjustifiably at this point) for their family image - and it's a flagship game that's supposed to have broad gamer appeal. This is not the 90's. Gaming is no longer the preserve of children and adolescent males.

Yes, and again Bayonetta is aimed at a specific segment of the market, so I fail to see the relevance of your point. A wider audience, doesn't mean that games that target adolescent males can't exist anymore, and its pretty clear what the market for Bayonetta is, and the market being wider now is neither here nor there. Bayonetta is going after a niche.

Again, the fan service is part of the game, and its to be expected. Complaining that a game like Bayonetta is doing exactly what it sets out to do is imho silly. You used Hustler early, well if someone were to write a review of that, and complain about nudity, I would similarly find it silly.

Banjo wrote: »

I don't think, all things considered, that they should be derided for making sure anyone looking to buy this game knows that they are getting an excellent combo-driven combat game that comes with mandatory virtual lapdances. I can see how it would be jarring.

How is it jarring? The only way for that to happen, if you had 0 knowledge of the game. If you don't want the fan service bits, play a different game, as clearly Bayonetta isn't for you.

Banjo wrote: »

Hell, I'm reading that review and wondering how comfortable playing this with my wife on the other end of the couch is going to be, and having second thoughts about my pre-order. And also coming up with costume suggestions for her for halloween.

Ok, its a game known for the fan service bits, so I would imagine that it would be uncomfortable.

Banjo wrote: »

Bear in mind, Bayonetta didn't get a Ninty release. I know most people on boards don't want to accept it but there are people who don't own 2 or 3 consoles from each generation. There are people who were committed and bound to the Wii and missed out on Bayonetta along with a lot of GTAs, Uncharteds and Halos. And they don't necessarily know what they're letting themselves in for. Because they haven't looked at the glorious spandex-clad arse shot on the cover.

Well, the old saying of Caveat Emptor applies, if someone chooses to ignore the marketing, the demo, the reviews, and the various information available about the game, then its sort of there own fault.

Personally, I find it amusing that reviewer had issues with the fan service bits, its Bayonetta, and the reviewer knows full well, what kind of game its trying to be. To me it seems silly to mark it down due to fan service bits, and again to go back to your Hustler comparison, it would be equally silly for a potential reviewer of Hustler to complain about nudity.

richymcdermott

I wont be able to get this nor any other release due to christmas coming up , weddings and birthdays , best I hope someone will be good to me this year and it be waiting under the xmas tree

ionapaul

Played the demo for a while yesterday and wasn't impressed at all (haven't played the first one). Thought the music that accompanied the initial segment was irritating and out-of-place. The action seemed a bit too chaotic, felt I was just mashing buttons. Graphics seemed good though, though I'm not sure I dig the art style. Will wait to watch some 'Let's Play' videos after it is released but definitely not getting it based on that few minutes of play.

Banjo

wes wrote: »

Personally, I find it amusing that reviewer had issues with the fan service bits, its Bayonetta, and the reviewer knows full well, what kind of game its trying to be. To me it seems silly to mark it down due to fan service bits, and again to go back to your Hustler comparison, it would be equally silly for a potential reviewer of Hustler to complain about nudity.

OK forget I said Hustler. That was, as you said, an unfair button-pushing comparison. (Although, in fairness, the first time I saw a Hustler magazine - which was back before the golden age of internet porn - I was pretty surprised by how far they were going relative to Playboy. But I digress...)

Have you seen Tokyo Gore Police?
I went in, eyes open, expecting an ultra violent gonzo bloodfest.
But jesus

I'm still disgusted with myself that I watched that film to the end. And that I enjoyed it. One of my greatest fears is that I will die suddenly and my kids will find the DVD and one day watch it and wonder what kind of monster I really was And I've a feeling I'll be hiding Bayonetta under it.

Point being, it's possible to have reasonable expectations based on reputation and marketing and still be unpleasantly surprised. I for one am glad to see that at least one reviewer isn't afraid to voice their opinion, even if it's not popular. That is, after all, what a review is for...

BTW - I'm old, so bear with me. When did "fan service" become an acceptable synonym for "ludicrous amounts of T&A"? It used to mean giving the core audience what they wanted, which I thought in this case was supposed to be the pinnacle of skill-oriented gaming? And a few nods to Nintendo heritage? I haven't played the original, as I mentioned, so maybe I've been barking up the wrong tree here, but is watching an imaginary cartoon woman prancing around in the nip the primary draw here?

Randall Floyd

I take Gies' point on the over sexualization etc. it was pretty over the top in the first game and by the sounds of things its been ramped up even more in this one, but its an integral part of what makes Bayonetta what it is, its a guilty pleasure. Giving the game a comparatively low score compared to other reviewers for that reason makes no sense to me.

Xenji

Bayonetta sexualisation is tame compared to some of the JRPG's I have played, I hope Gies does not review Criminal Girls when it comes out otherwise he may feint.

Retr0gamer

The sexualisation in Bayonetta is played for laughs and is pretty tame in fairness. At least she's a grown woman as well. TBH if you find yourself offended at it and can't laugh and enjoy just how absurd the whole thing is, which is the point, you need to cop on.

COYVB

Xenji wrote: »

All very favourable reviews except for the last two

Since when are 3.5/5 and 7.5/10 not favourable reviews?

Generic Dreadhead

COYVB wrote: »

Since when are 3.5/5 and 7.5/10 not favourable reviews?

Since Destiny :pac:

wes

Banjo wrote: »

BTW - I'm old, so bear with me. When did "fan service" become an acceptable synonym for "ludicrous amounts of T&A"?

Well, when the fans want a ludicrous amount of T&A, its applicable imho..... BTW, there taking the piss the entire time, it pokes fun at this kind of thing.

Banjo wrote: »

It used to mean giving the core audience what they wanted, which I thought in this case was supposed to be the pinnacle of skill-oriented gaming? And a few nods to Nintendo heritage? I haven't played the original, as I mentioned, so maybe I've been barking up the wrong tree here, but is watching an imaginary cartoon woman prancing around in the nip the primary draw here?

Have you watched any of the trailers, or game play video's? As for being a game of skill, on the harder modes that is the case, but in the first game, they also had a super easy mode, that you could play with 1 hand........ (again, there taking the piss btw).

Look if someone had no clue about the game, then yes it would be jarring, but I find it hard to believe that anyone buying a relatively niche title like this wouldn't be aware of what it sets out to do.

I stand by what I said about the review, what exactly did they expect?

blag

Banjo wrote: »

OK forget I said Hustler. That was, as you said, an unfair button-pushing comparison. (Although, in fairness, the first time I saw a Hustler magazine - which was back before the golden age of internet porn - I was pretty surprised by how far they were going relative to Playboy. But I digress...)

Have you seen Tokyo Gore Police?
I went in, eyes open, expecting an ultra violent gonzo bloodfest.
But jesus

I'm still disgusted with myself that I watched that film to the end. And that I enjoyed it. One of my greatest fears is that I will die suddenly and my kids will find the DVD and one day watch it and wonder what kind of monster I really was And I've a feeling I'll be hiding Bayonetta under it.

Point being, it's possible to have reasonable expectations based on reputation and marketing and still be unpleasantly surprised. I for one am glad to see that at least one reviewer isn't afraid to voice their opinion, even if it's not popular. That is, after all, what a review is for...

BTW - I'm old, so bear with me. When did "fan service" become an acceptable synonym for "ludicrous amounts of T&A"? It used to mean giving the core audience what they wanted, which I thought in this case was supposed to be the pinnacle of skill-oriented gaming? And a few nods to Nintendo heritage? I haven't played the original, as I mentioned, so maybe I've been barking up the wrong tree here, but is watching an imaginary cartoon woman prancing around in the nip the primary draw here?

I'd go with your definition of what fan service is. I loved the original and the primary draw is precisely what you imagine, i.e. a fast paced technical combo driven game with a nice scoring system.

Comparing the game to porn in any form is a bit of a stretch. It pokes fun at itself the whole time and you'd need to be a real conservative to be offended by it IMO.

Xenji

COYVB wrote: »

Since when are 3.5/5 and 7.5/10 not favourable reviews?

Just compared to the bucketload of 9's and 10's it got.

Retr0gamer

Cormac... wrote: »

Since Destiny :pac:

8/10, as good as Halo.

Generic Dreadhead

Retr0gamer wrote: »

8/10, as good as Halo.

Twas but a joke

ERG89

Imagine playing Bayonetta 1 for the first time again and then a sequel. Lucky b*stard WiiU owners. Don't bother with that polygon reviews with the not so hidden agenda. Although I haven't a clue where to find impartial, honest reviewers these days. I'd love to have a look at these guys internet history and see how high they stand morally then. Bet they seen a lot worse than a fecking video game character

gizmo

wes wrote: »

Well, when the fans want a ludicrous amount of T&A, its applicable imho..... BTW, there taking the piss the entire time, it pokes fun at this kind of thing.

I would imagine the majority of Bayonetta fans love it for its skill-oriented combat rather than the T&A. Let me put it like this, which do you think would have the most negative effect on the sales of Bayonetta, toning down the sexualised nature of the protagonist or turning the combat into something more akin to God of War?

As for Platinum taking the piss with the over the top nature of some of the content, I totally agree. Still doesn't stop me from wincing a little when I see stuff like this though.

ERG89 wrote: »

Imagine playing Bayonetta 1 for the first time again and then a sequel. Lucky b*stard WiiU owners. Don't bother with that polygon reviews with the not so hidden agenda. Although I haven't a clue where to find impartial, honest reviewers these days. I'd love to have a look at these guys internet history and see how high they stand morally then. Bet they seen a lot worse than a fecking video game character

Gies was honest in his review though. He was upfront about his opinion and having read the text of the review I was under no illusions as to why he gave the game a lower than expected score at the end. If I was going to base my purchase on his review alone then I'd still be buying it because, despite detailing the content he found objectionable, he still mentioned all of the facets of the game that I love in a positive light. Said content he found objectionable, on the other hand, doesn't bother me as much. The final score, as a result of all this, is meaningless to me.

wes

gizmo wrote: »

I would imagine the majority of Bayonetta fans love it for its skill-oriented combat rather than the T&A. Let me put it like this, which do you think would have the most negative effect on the sales of Bayonetta, toning down the sexualised nature of the protagonist or turning the combat into something more akin to God of War?

I am sure there for the game play, but at the same time, they know full well what to expect from the game. IMHO, let the creators make the game that they want, and I have seen no fans of the games clamoring for the toning down the fan service stuff.

gizmo wrote: »

As for Platinum taking the piss with the over the top nature of some of the content, I totally agree. Still doesn't stop me from wincing a little when I see stuff like this though.

It wouldn't surprise me if that is what they were going for.

gizmo wrote: »

Gies was honest in his review though. He was upfront about his opinion and having read the text of the review I was under no illusions as to why he gave the game a lower than expected score at the end. If I was going to base my purchase on his review alone then I'd still be buying it because, despite detailing the content he found objectionable, he still mentioned all of the facets of the game that I love in a positive light. Said content he found objectionable, on the other hand, doesn't bother me as much. The final score, as a result of all this, is meaningless to me.

Honest or not, I still find his position amusing. Again, my opinion on what he wrote, is simple, its Bayonetta, what exactly did he expect?

Randall Floyd

Giving a game a comparatively bad score because you don't like its aesthetic is fair enough I guess, the high scores the game has received elsewhere seemed to focus more on the gameplay and rightly so.

Banjo

wes wrote: »

BTW, there taking the piss the entire time, it pokes fun at this kind of thing.

I'm trying to avoid making any kind of ridiculously generalised judgement, but if you ever find yourself working in an office environment with mixed genders, races or religions and a HR policy that was written or revised at some point since the 1970s, you will find that the fact that you're taking the piss does not in any way excuse your actions. Be warned!

Have you watched any of the trailers, <etc etc >

Look if someone had no clue about the game, then yes it would be jarring, but I find it hard to believe that anyone buying a relatively niche title like this wouldn't be aware of what it sets out to do.

I stand by what I said about the review, what exactly did they expect?

I'm not sure you understand the concept of a review. This is a person who is payed to play this game and give an opinion. Whether or not they want to play is immaterial. It's their job. This guy/gal could clearly not objectively separate the "fan service" which they didn't enjoy from the gameplay which they did. And that's fine. They were very specific that they found those elements jolted them out of their immersion, and I can see how that might happen if you're not entirely comfortable with the level of digiflesh on show here, the lascivious manner in which it's paraded and the risk/reward structure that gives you more cheap thrills the better you play. If you disagree, disagree. But don't act like your opinion is the only one that matters.

Just for the record, I am for the most part playing devil's advocate.
I owned Beach Spikers on the Gamecube. I have no moral high ground to retreat to here I downloaded the demo last night but didn't get a chance to play - and I did that because I'm really looking forward to playing it, not because I want to be outraged. I'm just offended by the idea that just because someone "should have known better" they have no right to be offended.

Besides, all it takes is for one impressionable idiot* after a few beers trying to punch their wife in the face to see if she'll go into Witch Time, take off all her clothes and strike some serious poses. It could all end very, very badly once the Daily Mail get involved.


*Edit : I am not that impressionable idiot. I swear, honey. It wasn't me! A man broke into the house and while you were unconscious I chased him away. Really, I'm a hero

johnny_ultimate

I have no problem with people giving out about fan service - I've actually stopped watching otherwise decent anime shows because of the vast amount of t&a (and occasional casual homophobia). If they don't like it, better to be upfront and honest about it - a review is subjective after all, despite the ever-insane Internet demands for total objectivity in opinions and inability to respect alternate perspectives. In extreme cases, I have found hyper or over sexualisation can taint my enjoyment of any given game / show whatever and distract from everything it does right.

Nonetheless, I've never actually had a major problem with the way Bayonetta handles hyper sexualisation. Firstly, the character herself is a confident, self-aware and independent individual who embraces and uses her sexuality with pride - a big difference to the leery and creepy male gaze directed at much more fragile (and usually very young) characters in other works. Bayonetta is a bold, brash response to that horrid anime and gaming trope - she is undoubtedly eroticised, but it is handled in a very different context. It also helps that the tone is so consistently OTT that the way the character is presented fits perfectly with the general mood of the game. It's a truly rare case when hyper sexualisation IMO is a proud statement of intent.

Again, if someone voices an alternate take, I can see the alternate reading and respect it. But IMO this is a game that uses sexuality in a far different manner than most other examples of shameless 'fan service'.

Retr0gamer

One other thing people forget is that Bayonetta was designed by a woman and Kamiya gave her free reign in designing her.

gizmo

wes wrote: »

I am sure there for the game play, but at the same time, they know full well what to expect from the game. IMHO, let the creators make the game that they want, and I have seen no fans of the games clamoring for the toning down the fan service stuff.

I'm not saying fans are calling for anything to be toned down, I'm saying they're fans of the game more so because of the combat system, responsive controls and overall presentation. I'd wager they wouldn't bat an eyelid if Bayonetta covered up a bit more or the camera focused less on specific body parts during cutscenes as long as the strong traits exhibited by the character don't change in the process. Thus, as Banjo said above, I wouldn't call this latter aspect fan service at all.

I certainly agree on letting the creators make the game they want though. Thankfully Kamiya has frequently stated he's not interested in people who have an issue with how the characters in his games are presented.

wes wrote: »

Honest or not, I still find his position amusing. Again, my opinion on what he wrote, is simple, its Bayonetta, what exactly did he expect?

I'm quite sure Gies knew what he was getting himself in for. After all, he reviewed the first game for Team XBox back in 2009, giving the game 8/10 and speaking very highly of areas I mentioned above. Even back then he discussed the sexualised nature of the character though so, given how it's supposedly been ramped up in the sequel and it bothered him the first time around, it's not really surprising he's given it the score he has.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

One other thing people forget is that Bayonetta was designed by a woman and Kamiya gave her free reign in designing her.

It's worth pointing out that, as with any character design, there were a great many variations created during the concept stage, many of which were considerably more clothed than the final design. I'm also rather sure Kamiya himself would have had the final say on the design, regardless of how involved Shimazaki and Hashimoto would have been up to that point.

richymcdermott

This is reminding me of the simpsons episode when marge was trying to ban violence with Itchy and Scratchy then others tried to ban Michelangelo sculpture because of Nudity.

Point being while it has not necessarily being come across there is nothing wrong with Nudity in itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfUJRdHSukA

Nudity and sexualisation in Anime or movies has never put me off from watching unless its broken up the plot or ruined the pace of a story cough cough* Game of Thrones.

I played Bayonetta 1 and while Bayonetta herself is how I put it over Glamorous In her movestyle and style Never once I was like I wish they toned it down. Its what makes her stand out in the end , a different personality to the ones criticized for being the damsel or the one being too dominant in stature. There is no right or wrong in one persons choice on how they want to make there games.


This reminded me of the days when god of war was bashed for its sex mini games, it was optional you did not have to do it, just like here if it bothered you that much how Bayonetta is still too sexy for you do not play it.


How many actresses have played strippers or women treated poorly in movies , I fail to see any critic go women should not be treated like this and then given a poor additional score because of it.

Though the score in this case did not bother me was just someone being shocked to a sequel that they knew what they were getting themselves into annoyed me the most.

Generic Dreadhead

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Nonetheless, I've never actually had a major problem with the way Bayonetta handles hyper sexualisation. Firstly, the character herself is a confident, self-aware and independent individual who embraces and uses her sexuality with pride - a big difference to the leery and creepy male gaze directed at much more fragile (and usually very young) characters in other works. Bayonetta is a bold, brash response to that horrid anime and gaming trope - she is undoubtedly eroticised, but it is handled in a very different context. It also helps that the tone is so consistently OTT that the way the character is presented fits perfectly with the general mood of the game. It's a truly rare case when hyper sexualisation IMO is a proud statement of intent.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

One other thing people forget is that Bayonetta was designed by a woman and Kamiya gave her free reign in designing her.

*Sexism in Video Games Thread Explodes* :pac:

Of course now that it's a strong female character, in a game targeted for a mature audience designed by a female it will be scorned for being overtly sexual and not praised for going against the status quo and carving out it's own destiny

gizmo

richymcdermott wrote: »

How many actresses have played strippers or women treated poorly in movies , I fail to see any critic go women should not be treated like this and then given a poor additional score because of it.

*ahem*

wes

Banjo wrote: »

I'm trying to avoid making any kind of ridiculously generalised judgement, but if you ever find yourself working in an office environment with mixed genders, races or religions and a HR policy that was written or revised at some point since the 1970s, you will find that the fact that you're taking the piss does not in any way excuse your actions. Be warned!

You would have a valid point, if we were talking about an office environment, we not, and as such, you don't have a valid point.

Seriously, its a video game, that people will play at home.

Banjo wrote: »

I'm not sure you understand the concept of a review. This is a person who is payed to play this game and give an opinion.

I fully understand what a review is. The funny thing about a review, is that I can have an opinion as well, and I am offering my own critique.

Banjo wrote: »

This guy/gal could clearly not objectively separate the "fan service" which they didn't enjoy from the gameplay which they did. And that's fine.

I never said it wasn't ok, just that I find it amusing, and it seems to me that the vast majority of other reviewers, were able to review the title for what it is. Again, I find the opinion amusing, and nothing more. The reviewers opinion is no more precious than mine.

wes

gizmo wrote: »

I'm not saying fans are calling for anything to be toned down, I'm saying they're fans of the game more so because of the combat system, responsive controls and overall presentation. I'd wager they wouldn't bat an eyelid if Bayonetta covered up a bit more or the camera focused less on specific body parts during cutscenes as long as the strong traits exhibited by the character don't change in the process. Thus, as Banjo said above, I wouldn't call this latter aspect fan service at all.

I have no idea how fan would react, considering its a niche title, that is only getting a sequel due to Nintendo funding it. It wouldn't bother me a whole lot either way, if the game was still good, but I can't speak for either way to other fans of the game.

gizmo wrote: »

I certainly agree on letting the creators make the game they want though. Thankfully Kamiya has frequently stated he's not interested in people who have an issue with how the characters in his games are presented.

I'm quite sure Gies knew what he was getting himself in for. After all, he reviewed the first game for Team XBox back in 2009, giving the game 8/10 and speaking very highly of areas I mentioned above. Even back then he discussed the sexualised nature of the character though so, given how it's supposedly been ramped up in the sequel and it bothered him the first time around, it's not really surprising he's given it the score he has.

The man is entitled to his hang ups, but again its Bayonetta, its intended to be over the top sexualized, and again what did he expect exactly? Look, I am not fan of fan service stuff, a lot of its really creepy and weird. In the case of Bayonetta, thats not the case, its more of piss take on the whole thing, and I think if perfectly valid to disagree with the reviewer on that basis. When playing the first game, I was laughing at how deliberately over the top the whole thing was, it seems to me that the polygon reviewer simply doesn't get the joke.

CiDeRmAn

I want Bayonetta 2 so I can do the same thing I did in the previous game, beat the living shizzle out of god!
Is that so wrong.

And as for sexuality, it is more appropriate than the stream of defenceless wimins awaiting rescue in every other videogame we play, Bayonetta isn't waiting for rescue, probably be unhealthy if you tried!

COYVB

wes wrote: »

its Bayonetta, what exactly did he expect?

What do his expectations have to do with what he finds objectionable? Does he ignore what he doesn't like based on the series?

Retr0gamer

richymcdermott wrote: »

This reminded me of the days when god of war was bashed for its sex mini games, it was optional you did not have to do it, just like here if it bothered you that much how Bayonetta is still too sexy for you do not play it.

I'd consider God of War at the other end of the spectrum. The nudity and sex are really jarring for me and is utterly childish. It was towing a fine line in the first two games but the third was out right pathetic in that regard. Even the violence went from stylised to pretty cruel in some places.

richymcdermott

In the end I hope the game does the impossible and sell well enough we get a bayo 3 because and I am being realistic here I want more games with a combat system close to dmc 3,4 and bayo 1 that actually involves skill and master to learn than rhythm imput or button mashing games.

blag

wes wrote: »

The man is entitled to his hang ups, but again its Bayonetta, its intended to be over the top sexualized, and again what did he expect exactly? Look, I am not fan of fan service stuff, a lot of its really creepy and weird. In the case of Bayonetta, thats not the case, its more of piss take on the whole thing, and I think if perfectly valid to disagree with the reviewer on that basis. When playing the first game, I was laughing at how deliberately over the top the whole thing was, it seems to me that the polygon reviewer simply doesn't get the joke.

Is this really considered fan service? I don't think I know what fan service is...I always considered it to be pandering to a specific audience via references etc.

Just did a quick search and apparently it's an anime thing for fan service to reference sexual content?

wes

COYVB wrote: »

What do his expectations have to do with what he finds objectionable? Does he ignore what he doesn't like based on the series?

Again, to use the horror film example, it would be equivalent to a review complaining that a horror film, was far to scary. That is the way I view it.

wes

blag wrote: »

Just did a quick search and apparently it's an anime thing for fan service to reference sexual content?

Yes, and seeing we were referring to sexual content, I taught it the most apt term.

blag

wes wrote: »

Yes, and seeing we were referring to sexual content, I taught it the most apt term.

Fair enough.

tailgunner

I don't really get the "fan service" argument either. Who are the fans in this context? Adolescent males? I can't imagine many teenage boys own a Wii U, so I'm not sure who they're trying to appeal to.

To be fair though, it's only been one reviewer who has been particularly critical of this, so hopefully it all fits within a game that is fairly absurd on many other levels as well.

gizmo

Wait, what? Did fan service always mean this?

If that's the case then apologies, wes. My above argument was made in the context of fan service being "material in a series which is intentionally added to please the audience" in the general sense, not specifically the "gratuitous titillation" one.

blag

gizmo wrote: »

Wait, what? Did fan service always mean this?

.

I hope it didn't always mean that, I've recommended Hyrule Warriors on the basis of great fan service, god only knows what they're expecting.....:pac: