How To Be a Woman

Morag · 13-09-2012 1:29pm #1

Has anyone else read How To Be a Woman by Caitlin Moran?
I am reading it at the moment and was wondering is anyone else or has anyone else and if so what did you think of it?

stinkle · 13-09-2012 1:41pm

I've read it, and enjoyed it. I felt she came across as quite annoying at times but agreed with almost everything she was saying. It's been a few months since I read it

Ella · 13-09-2012 2:03pm

Is it an actual book on how to be a woman?

IvyTheTerrible · 13-09-2012 2:06pm

Ella wrote: »

Is it an actual book on how to be a woman?

It's a book by a comedian Caitlin Moran about her life and her views on being a women (with her ideas on porn, epilation, weight, sex, fashion etc.

I found it hilarious, I share a lot of her views (particularly about porn and hair removal) but I was never able to articulate them as well.

I'd recommend it.

Dovakhin · 13-09-2012 2:07pm

I read it a couple of months ago and absolutely adored it. Particularly loved the section on weddings considering that at the time I was in the throes of wedding-organising.

I pretty much agreed with most of her points.

Rossin · 13-09-2012 2:13pm

what are her ideas on porn and hair removal?

Morag · 13-09-2012 2:13pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ4DzEJ8ax4

xDramaxQueenx · 13-09-2012 2:27pm

Oh my god that video is annoying. If she's all for choice, what's with the sly digs at women who choose to wax? "Oh, at least I don't look like a child". Hate that attitude.

Morag · 13-09-2012 2:29pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WQnZhwGED4

xDramaxQueenx · 13-09-2012 2:30pm

I have a question for Caitlin Moran. "Why do you have hair that makes you look like a skunk?"

Edit to stay on topic, I haven't actually read the book. The title wouldn't encourage me to read it but after watching both those video clips, her opinions would not be something I would be even interested in and I dont think I would agree with anything she had to say.

Morag · 13-09-2012 2:36pm

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

I have a question for Caitlin Moran. "Why do you have hair that makes you look like a skunk?"

Cos she chooses to.
Wow really didn't think this thread would descend to people having a go at what she looks like.

I'm about half way through the book, I do agree with what she says re 'broken window theory' and it's made me laugh out loud several times.

xDramaxQueenx · 13-09-2012 2:41pm

Sharrow wrote: »

Cos she chooses to.
Wow really didn't think this thread would descend to people having a go at what she looks like.

As do people who choose to have intimate waxing done. Its also their choice. As I see it, she's "having a go" at what some people look like without their underwear "like a child". Is that what her book has to resort to, to sell?

IvyTheTerrible · 13-09-2012 2:44pm

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

As do people who choose to have intimate waxing done. Its also their choice. As I see it, she's "having a go" at what some people look like without their underwear "like a child". Is that what her book has to resort to, to sell?

I think her point was that a full wax is something that just was not done (or rarely) before porn became mainstream. That porn is telling women what our bodies should look like.

Morag · 13-09-2012 2:45pm

I know several people who hold the same opinion on waxing, it's their opinion.
I do agree that it should be a personal choice and a personal preference rather then it being an assumed 'norm'.
You seem to be taking it a bit personally.

xDramaxQueenx · 13-09-2012 2:51pm

I am taking it personally. Its an attitude that a lot of women have. "Oh, I would rather look like an adult and not a child". Its almost sneering at people who choose to wax. And, I for one don't think it's really got to do with porn. Some women are capable of making their own minds up on whether or not it feels cleaner for them to be hair free or not.

Wibbs · 13-09-2012 3:04pm

Sharrow wrote: »

I do agree that it should be a personal choice and a personal preference rather then it being an assumed 'norm'.

True, plus in a few cultures the women wax and have done long before porn was around. latins, Arab women as two examples.

Ectoplasm · 13-09-2012 3:10pm

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

I am taking it personally. Its an attitude that a lot of women have. "Oh, I would rather look like an adult and not a child". Its almost sneering at people who choose to wax. And, I for one don't think it's really got to do with porn. Some women are capable of making their own minds up on whether or not it feels cleaner for them to be hair free or not.

Of course women are capable of making their own minds up but the adult/child thing is a valid opinion too. I for one was quite disturbed to encounter a man who had gone totally bare down there as to me it did look childlike which freaked me out a bit. Just because somebody chooses not to wax for this reason doesn't mean they are 'sneering' at those who don't hold the same opinion - it just means that they themselves have a preference for how their own body looks.

On topic of the book, I hadn't really heard of it but it looks like something I'll read. Thanks for the highlight Sharrow.

Honey-ec · 13-09-2012 3:19pm

EMF2010 wrote: »

Of course women are capable of making their own minds up but the adult/child thing is a valid opinion too. I for one was quite disturbed to encounter a man who had gone totally bare down there as to me it did look childlike which freaked me out a bit.

This is why I stick to Brazilian waxing. Did the whole hog once and I hated it, as did my boyfriend at the time. Nothing attractive about looking pre-pubescent down there, but a lot of people clearly love it and that's their prerogative.

krudler · 13-09-2012 3:19pm

Ella wrote: »

Is it an actual book on how to be a woman?

I have one ordered for you for christmas.

Ella · 13-09-2012 3:26pm

krudler wrote: »

I have one ordered for you for christmas.

It would take more than a book to sort me out

Morag · 13-09-2012 3:44pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDhKDTeWdxg

Delirium · 13-09-2012 4:02pm

Read it last week. Found it to be a decent read. She was quite funny at parts in the book. I bought it mainly because I follow her on twitter, so was curious to see what the book was like.

Actually just watching the video reminded of that section in the book where she talks to a friend about going out that weekend and the possiblity of having sex that weekend. Which lead to the planning (almost to a military level) about shaving/waxing/fake-tanning. Just thought, "Christ, being a woman is tiring", and that was just reading about being one :pac:

I did laugh at her response when her boss asked her to sit on his lap during a meeting. Definitely one way to correct that sort of behaviour.

13-09-2012 4:14pm

I wouldn't be laughing out loud, but she seems nice and down to earth anyway. Could have some good points.

the interviewer in the second video seems very... half asleep and monotone

meeeeh · 13-09-2012 4:22pm

Not something that would overly interest me. I mostly read fiction, rarely non fiction and it would be probably some historical stuff. My interest in opinion pieces is limited to those in newspapers. But I really don't know why people want to read only the stuff they completely agree with or be even offended by the opinions that are not like their own.

Morag · 13-09-2012 4:24pm

I think that by reading stuff I may not agree with, makes me question why I don't agree with it and that's not a bad thing (unless it's J waters cos life is too short).

meeeeh · 13-09-2012 4:32pm

Sharrow wrote: »

I think that by reading stuff I may not agree with, makes me question why I don't agree with it and that's not a bad thing (unless it's J waters cos life is too short).

Yes. If the argument is well put is usually worth reading, but John Waters and the woman that writes about religious stuff in Times (I can't think of her name) are usually ignored. I have only limited time.

krudler · 13-09-2012 5:10pm

god that video is painful. "I have too many shoes because I watch Sex and the City" thats not a feminist issue, its common sense, stop buying things because you saw them on a tv show.
Why's it ok for feminists to look down on other women's choices? Women only get waxed because porn tells them to? ok then.. nothing to do with personal preference, feeling more hygienic etc etc, now its because porn says so. What a load of guff. "other women don't conform to what my idea of a woman should be" is mostly what she seems to be getting at.

Eve_Dublin · 13-09-2012 5:28pm

krudler wrote: »

god that video is painful. "I have too many shoes because I watch Sex and the City" thats not a feminist issue, its common sense, stop buying things because you saw them on a tv show.
Why's it ok for feminists to look down on other women's choices? Women only get waxed because porn tells them to? ok then.. nothing to do with personal preference, feeling more hygienic etc etc, now its because porn says so. What a load of guff. "other women don't conform to what my idea of a woman should be" is mostly what she seems to be getting at.

I think her point about the shoes was the fact that most of them that supposedly look stylish, classy, sexy, feminine, etc. are apparently very painful to wear and not the fact that she has so many.

I think you're right about the waxing thing though but in the same breath, people often use one feminist's opinion as the opinion of all of us and that's not fair either.

I don't like people taking the opinions of women like Caitlin as the opinion of all feminists just because she classes herself as one. She's one woman with her own opinions and her own idea of feminism and I don't agree with a lot of what she says.

xDramaxQueenx · 13-09-2012 5:36pm

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I think her point about the shoes was the fact that most of them that supposedly look stylish, classy, sexy, feminine, etc. are apparently very painful to wear and not the fact that she has so many.

Yes, they might be painful for her to wear, they're not painful for every woman to wear. She should stop smearing every woman with the same brush. Its rubbish like what she was spouting that would make me never ever want to be a feminist.

Missy Moo Moo · 13-09-2012 5:53pm

I'd be with xdramaqueenx on this one- wax or don't wax, that's your choice, but don't belittle those who choose to. That would put me off.

Not to mention, the whole "plight of the modern woman" theme is beyond tedious and has been done to death at this stage.

Squ · 13-09-2012 6:06pm

Is it a comedic book? ie, a satirical look on what women do?
Or is it to help women define themselves?

Morag · 13-09-2012 6:15pm

It's a comedic book about her growing up into a woman, the weird things the rites of passage and the things women don't talk about.

Fox McCloud · 13-09-2012 6:53pm

I dont see whats wrong with opening up discussion on why women go through a lot of discomfort for looking good.
Its not necessarily saying that if you do conform you're stupid, its making us think about things that we might otherwise just do because everyone else does. By considering WHY we want to wax or wear high heels and where our main style messages come from.. we then get to make informed decisions about what we do to our bodies and most importantly where we spend our hard earned cash.

From what I get from the first video, she seems to be offering her alternative to the norm and explaining why she does things her way.

13-09-2012 9:13pm

I got the book for my oldest daughter last Christmas because its the kind of book she would like and her opinion was that the book was brilliant.

Madam_X · 13-09-2012 9:15pm

I read a review of it - she told her daughters at a young age about "the patriarchy" and they dressed up as suffragettes for a recent fancy-dress party...

That to me seems too extreme a message to pass to young kids.

Morag · 13-09-2012 9:56pm

they dressed up as suffragettes for a recent fancy-dress party

Dressing up as shin kickers and window breakers, why not

dearg lady · 13-09-2012 10:16pm

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

Oh my god that video is annoying. If she's all for choice, what's with the sly digs at women who choose to wax? "Oh, at least I don't look like a child". Hate that attitude.

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

I have a question for Caitlin Moran. "Why do you have hair that makes you look like a skunk?"
.

you give out about her having a dig at some women, and then take a dig at her! I won't go into my opinions on waxing, but you can't deny that a full wax makes a woman look childlike again in that area. Now there might be a million other reasons why a person chooses to wax, but the end result is that their lady bits look more child like after.

xDramaxQueenx · 13-09-2012 10:53pm

dearg lady wrote: »

you give out about her having a dig at some women, and then take a dig at her! I won't go into my opinions on waxing, but you can't deny that a full wax makes a woman look childlike again in that area. Now there might be a million other reasons why a person chooses to wax, but the end result is that their lady bits look more child like after.

i don't know what kind of children you're looking at tbh, but no. I would disagree. It's not an area that should "look" a specfic way anyway. Why does everybody get so bent out of shape about this? Its an intimate area, there isn't any sort of inspection carried out. Its personal preference. I hate body hair, I'm not exactly hairy, but I wax my arms, so as I dont have those horrible little blonde hairs. I wax my legs. Does that mean I have childlike arms and legs?

dearg lady · 13-09-2012 10:55pm

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

i don't know what kind of children you're looking at tbh, but no. I would disagree.

just the standard model!

Motorist · 13-09-2012 10:57pm

Emer O'Toole knows what it is to be a woman.

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/article-2139473-12EBCC51000005DC-747_634x507.jpg

xDramaxQueenx · 13-09-2012 10:57pm

dearg lady wrote: »

just the standard model!

Well personally, if being groomed means I look "child-like" I'd take that over looking unkempt.

dearg lady · 13-09-2012 10:59pm

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

Well personally, if being groomed means I look "child-like" I'd take that over looking unkempt.

ah, so many sly digs! People still groom themselves but don't go the whole hog as it were.

dearg lady · 13-09-2012 11:03pm

anyway, sorry, getting off topic! I haven't read the book. The videos wouldn't really endear me to her... she's a bit too hyper, and kind of irritating for me.

xDramaxQueenx · 13-09-2012 11:04pm

dearg lady wrote: »

ah, so many sly digs! People still groom themselves but don't go the whole hog as it were.

But why does it matter? If somebody is comfortable with having a full bikini, thats their own business. Equally, if someone is more comfortable waxing absolutely everything, that should be up to them. Its body hair. I don't understand why people who remove body hair from other areas get so judgemental about hair removal on one specfic area.

dearg lady · 13-09-2012 11:05pm

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

But why does it matter? If somebody is comfortable with having a full bikini, thats their own business. Equally, if someone is more comfortable waxing absolutely everything, that should be up to them. Its body hair. I don't understand why people who remove body hair from other areas get so judgemental about hair removal on one specfic area.

it doesn't matter. I'm not judging anyone. I haven't even said what my personal preferences are! I'm just saying that what was said about it appearing more childlike is true.

meeeeh · 13-09-2012 11:07pm

Not everybody likes the same stuff and now they are not supposed to voice their opinion because some sensitive soul feels threatened about their body hair or wearing high heels? It's just an opinion and I don't know why should everybody conform to the same beauty standards or at least shouldn't criticise them.

xDramaxQueenx · 13-09-2012 11:08pm

Well in that case I am merely stating that removing hair from any area can make the area appear childlike.

dearg lady · 13-09-2012 11:24pm

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

Well in that case I am merely stating that removing hair from any area can make the area appear childlike.

and that's entirely true too. so you've changed your mind on what Caitlin says and now agree with her?

rainbow kirby · 13-09-2012 11:39pm

Back on topic, if ye want to start another thread about hair removal go ahead.

dearg lady · 13-09-2012 11:43pm

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Back on topic, if ye want to start another thread about hair removal go ahead.

Sorry for going OT, I just can't help but question people contradicting themselves! I'll go back in me box, I haven't even read the book

Kimia · 13-09-2012 11:51pm

I quite liked her. I'm not sure if I'd agree with everything she says but I find her comments interesting.

I also found Drama Queen's dig at her a bit ironic. Asking why she looks like a skunk - was getting that personal really necessary?

How To Be a Woman

Comments