Gone beyond a joke (Mod post #44)

longshank

at a recent ironman briefing the race director made a very good point that everyone gives out about the organisers and marshals when it comes to drafting yet they are not the ones drafting the only ones drafting are athletes....i certainly am not shy about letting drafters know what i think and i think if athletes let there opinions known during races it would do alot to make it unacceptable....cheating on officialdom is cool cheating on fellow athletes is not so cool....we as athletes need to make it unacceptable forget officials/marshals

sconhome

From ITU Competition Rules:

Drafting from another athlete or motor vehicle is forbidden. Athletes must
reject attempts by others to draft;

I never actually realised that we were encouraged to be draft busters in our own right. Gloves are coming off next season.

Unregistered.

peter kern wrote: »

go to ti website and have a look at the picture in the rule book
unless its on very very wide road while its then not drafting its blocking .

A two lane road is plenty!

bryangiggsy

Personally i don't like to tell people to F off when they drafting. Ruins my mojo. If i find someone sucking my wheel i just give them the stiff arm and wave them through. If i come up on someone i always pull out and try make the pass if not i fall back. Personally i think a bigger problem in triathlons is peletons 4-5 cyclists pacing off each other and taking up most of road

mrbungle

Name and shame Evidence:
Simple, just keep publishing race photos.
Let's see who's always in a pack, you can use the excuse, I was overtaking once!

IronmanJNR

+1

Great Idea... IF and that’s a big if... IF TI gave a sh1te they would bring in a rule were people could get a penalty for drafting based on photographic evidence like what Mr. Bungle produced...

Penalty could be given retrospectively or applied to next TI sanctioned race

BUT... As i said before, they don’t give a sh1te

couerdelion

Unless you've got some kind of markings on the road then the angle of those pictures and the reduced depth perception from a camera still means they aren't proof. It's also just a snapshot in time.

All the stuff about TI not caring is rubbish too. They've trained a lot of draft marshals over the last couple of years and whilst the course covers the basics of triathlons most marshalls aren't from a tri background. It's going to take a while for these marshalls to get the experience to become fully effective but they will do.

It's hard for a Marshall to actually catch someone as once the motor bike is heard gaps appear. Motorcycle marshals are there as much as a deterrent as anything else.

AFAIK They are also only mandated for NS races. Other races use of them are at the race organisers discretion.

The responsibility is the athletes. If the penalties are tough and enforced then drafting will be reduced.

mrbungle

IronmanJNR wrote: »

+1

Great Idea... IF and that’s a big if... IF TI gave a sh1te they would bring in a rule were people could get a penalty for drafting based on photographic evidence like what Mr. Bungle produced...

Penalty could be given retrospectively or applied to next TI sanctioned race

BUT... As i said before, they don’t give a sh1te

Yeah, self policing, post pics here over and over after every race, race numbers visible, names from racewebpage, easy money, maybe not names, but self regulation?!

Sure hasn't self regulation worked a dream in this country for years!

IronmanJNR

couerdelion wrote: »

Unless you've got some kind of markings on the road then the angle of those pictures and the reduced depth perception from a camera still means they aren't proof. It's also just a snapshot in time.

All the stuff about TI not caring is rubbish too. They've trained a lot of draft marshals over the last couple of years and whilst the course covers the basics of triathlons most marshalls aren't from a tri background. It's going to take a while for these marshalls to get the experience to become fully effective but they will do.

It's hard for a Marshall to actually catch someone as once the motor bike is heard gaps appear. Motorcycle marshals are there as much as a deterrent as anything else.
AFAIK They are also only mandated for NS races. Other races use of them are at the race organisers discretion.

The responsibility is the athletes. If the penalties are tough and enforced then drafting will be reduced.

You on Crack ?????

Ceepo

IronmanJNR wrote: »

+1

Great Idea... IF and that’s a big if... IF TI gave a sh1te they would bring in a rule were people could get a penalty for drafting based on photographic evidence like what Mr. Bungle produced...

Penalty could be given retrospectively or applied to next TI sanctioned race

BUT... As i said before, they don’t give a sh1te

Unless you have a series.of photos you cannot say any of the people are drafting, it could be a case where they are overtaking, even the 3m rule does not apply on a narrow road with a continue while line, rules of the road apply, (no crossing white line).
As far as I am aware TI rules are the same as ITU and you can not carry penalty's.
As far as ti not giving a sh*t, what do you want them to do, they supply 2 tech officaials at every race, its down to race organizers to look after drafting, TI also trained motor bike draftbusters that can be supplied to races at the request of said races,
I'm pretty sure if anyone has an idea to stamp out drafting TI would be glad to hear it.
It's the athletes that draft not race organizers or marshel's
Why not go to race organizers after the race where the drafting and complain and stress that you and maybe the rest of your club will not be back unless they sort the Drafting out. This might be a better way to sort it out.
This might make race organizers listen

mrbungle

Ceepo wrote: »

IronmanJNR wrote: »

+1

Great Idea... IF and that’s a big if... IF TI gave a sh1te they would bring in a rule were people could get a penalty for drafting based on photographic evidence like what Mr. Bungle produced...

Penalty could be given retrospectively or applied to next TI sanctioned race

BUT... As i said before, they don’t give a sh1te

Unless you have a series.of photos you cannot say any of the people are drafting, it could be a case where they are overtaking, even the 3m rule does not apply on a narrow road with a continue while line, rules of the road apply, (no crossing white line).
As far as I am aware TI rules are the same as ITU and you can not carry penalty's.
As far as ti not giving a sh*t, what do you want them to do, they supply 2 tech officaials at every race, its down to race organizers to look after drafting, TI also trained motor bike draftbusters that can be supplied to races at the request of said races,
I'm pretty sure if anyone has an idea to stamp out drafting TI would be glad to hear it.
It's the athletes that draft not race organizers or marshel's
Why not go to race organizers after the race where the drafting and complain and stress that you and maybe the rest of your club will not be back unless they sort the Drafting out. This might be a better way to sort it out.
This might make race organizers listen

So basically no real engineers on this forum.

o-o

sconhome

To calculate that accurately so that drafting claims could be substantiated you would probably need to know the height of the camera off the ground, the distance the camera is from the action, the F-stop of the lens to give dept of field information.

You could guesstimate the distances based on an average of 5m between cats eyes on a solid line in the road.

Or give it to Dara O'Briain to figure out.

Another option is to use a chip timing system that GPS tracks each individual athlete and program software to detect drafting patterns from a set of guideline parameters. Computer would automatically calculate the passing through time, offset distances etc.

Simple!

mrbungle

amphkingwest wrote: »

To calculate that accurately so that drafting claims could be substantiated you would probably need to know the height of the camera off the ground, the distance the camera is from the action, the F-stop of the lens to give dept of field information.

You could guesstimate the distances based on an average of 5m between cats eyes on a solid line in the road.

Or give it to Dara O'Briain to figure out.

Another option is to use a chip timing system that GPS tracks each individual athlete and program software to detect drafting patterns from a set of guideline parameters. Computer would automatically calculate the passing through time, offset distances etc.

Simple!

And which way the wind was blowing and how fat the c*nt is who is drafting.

Simple.

Krusty_Clown

amphkingwest wrote: »

Another option is to use a chip timing system that GPS tracks each individual athlete and program software to detect drafting patterns from a set of guideline parameters. Computer would automatically calculate the passing through time, offset distances etc.
Simple!

If I remember correctly, London marathon were trialing a GPS tracking system for runners. Additional cost per runner was something like £80 (per device). I'm assuming the cost might have come down in the last couple of years, but it would still make an expensive sport far more expensive.

Additional chip-mats could be a far more cost-effective solution (you could have a sequence of them 10m apart). OK, a drafting cyclist could back-off when they see a series of chip mats, but that would also act as a visual deterrent (you could put fakes all over the place ). Of course, you'd likely need the roads to be closed. but it would work out a lot cheaper (as you don't have to fit a device to every competitor).

Have other countries/races successfully combated the problem using technical solutions? What do they do?

sconhome

The guys that did the chip timing at Athy this year had the GPS system as an option (obviously not at Athy). I got chatting to the computer guy and he nearly wet himself telling me all about it. If the analysis software was created to back this up this could be a good system to use, cost dependent of course.

RacoonQueen

Marshalling yesterday I gave 'draft box' reminders. Asked the motorbike official about it and he said he usually tries to sort it out on the course rather than dishing out penalties as you'll just get big queues of appeals if you do dish them out.

Laziness or lack or resources where TI officials are concerned if they're not dishing out penalties to avoid appeals?

promethius

i was up at the triathlons in sligo in august. the olympic one was on the saturday. a very business like lad was one of the two tri ireland technical delegates, he was warning about drafting and enforcement etc to anyone in the area.

So the race was underway and off he cycled on his pushbike to the course. End result about ten names on the penalty board he'd set up at transition (about 140 took part) all with 2 min time penalties i think. some of these were in the top ten of finishers.

Lot of unhappy punters but there you go, them's the rules. Competitors very much on their toes the following day in the sprint event i can tell you!