Changed to Raw :-)

Lemlin

Anyone recommend any good RAW food for small pups?

My Labrador Penny had pups three weeks ago and she is RAW fed since being a pup, with some nuts the odd time (and I stress odd, its generally rare she gets nuts). I've been feeding her Skinners Puppy food though with her raw for the last while to get her ready for the pups.

The pups are now approaching four weeks old and I've put them onto wet puppy nuts at the minute. So far I've added a small bit of boiled egg and some juice from a chicken we cooked the other evening.

I'm aware their digestive systems will still be delicate but I feel RAW helps a dog thrive so I think the RAW will help them.

Anyone any foods they'd recommend?

I enclose a picture of two of the little lads before I get asked!

bluecherry74

They're lovely

Maybe start them with a bit of plain minced chicken or white fish, as that would be the gentlest on their tummies at this young age. Once they're used to that you could either move on to something like gRAW for a while, which is good quality and contains small amounts of liver and veg, or just mince whatever raw food you feed your adult dog.

tk123

bluecherry74 wrote: »

They're lovely

Maybe start them with a bit of plain minced chicken or white fish, as that would be the gentlest on their tummies at this young age. Once they're used to that you could either move on to something like gRAW for a while, which is good quality and contains small amounts of liver and veg, or just mince whatever raw food you feed your adult dog.

I was going to suggest the same. I've been feeding my pup on gRaw since we got her at 9 weeks. She's growing so fast atm (4 months) that I'm finding it hard to keep weight on her - she'll be fine one day then the next it's like she's grown in her sleep and looks skinny again lol! I'm adding the veg mix I use for my other dog (carrots, bag of mixed veg, apples, quinoa, salmon oil) and some potato too to bulk it all out and she's looking better after only a few days. She's gotten whole duck necks for the last 3 days and is actually chewing them now lol :P

Lovely puppies btw!

Lemlin

bluecherry74 wrote: »

They're lovely

Maybe start them with a bit of plain minced chicken or white fish, as that would be the gentlest on their tummies at this young age. Once they're used to that you could either move on to something like gRAW for a while, which is good quality and contains small amounts of liver and veg, or just mince whatever raw food you feed your adult dog.

Yep, its minced down chicken and boiled eggs broken down into tiny parts that I've been feeding them so far.

Ya see I only want to feed them bits of raw. I'm mainly feeding them Skinners nuts because I have to be mindful that the new owners may not wish to feed raw.

tk123

How about (if you don't mind the smell) some mashed up tinned sardines/mackerel? Readily available for the new owners and not raw enough (compared to meat, necks etc) to freak them out?

Lemlin

tk123 wrote: »

How about (if you don't mind the smell) some mashed up tinned sardines/mackerel? Readily available for the new owners and not raw enough (compared to meat, necks etc) to freak them out?

Will definitely give it a try. Will freeze the mackerel first though as I've heard they can be full of toxins.

DBB

Freezing won't get rid of toxins, but it will kill parasitic worms in the fish. I wonder if by toxins, you mean the alleged build up of heavy metals like mercury in predatory fish?
The simple remedy for this is to feed fish that don't eat too much in the way of other fish! So, herring, sardines, pilchards... Any of the small oily fish.
I had been going to say that giving the pups some dry may be necessary, otherwise you may be forcing their new owners to commit to raw too, but you've got that covered ;-)
The reason I didn't mention it is because they're labs... Lol!
Variety, I think, is key. Give them a good, broad palate. But the only reservation I'd have, rightly or wrongly, is that I'd be inclined not to feed the raw meat just yet, I'd just be concerned that their little systems may not be ready for that yet? Maybe? I think I'd prefer to cook it now, and gradually wean them to raw.

Lemlin

DBB wrote: »

Freezing won't get rid of toxins, but it will kill parasitic worms in the fish. I wonder if by toxins, you mean the alleged build up of heavy metals like mercury in predatory fish?
The simple remedy for this is to feed fish that don't eat too much in the way of other fish! So, herring, sardines, pilchards... Any of the small oily fish.
I had been going to say that giving the pups some dry may be necessary, otherwise you may be forcing their new owners to commit to raw too, but you've got that covered ;-)
The reason I didn't mention it is because they're labs... Lol!
Variety, I think, is key. Give them a good, broad palate. But the only reservation I'd have, rightly or wrongly, is that I'd be inclined not to feed the raw meat just yet, I'd just be concerned that their little systems may not be ready for that yet? Maybe? I think I'd prefer to cook it now, and gradually wean them to raw.

All they've had so far is some cooked chicken, nuts soaked in the juices from the chicken and boiled eggs ground up so everything has been cooked.

DBB

Lemlin wrote: »

All they've had so far is some cooked chicken, nuts soaked in the juices from the chicken and boiled eggs ground up so everything has been cooked.

Do you, or anyone else reading this, feel the same about cooking meat for very young pups? Or is it just me?!

Whispered

DBB wrote: »

Do you, or anyone else reading this, feel the same about cooking meat for very young pups? Or is it just me?!

I'd be inclined to think the same, not for any reason though, just because it's "nicer". Probably doing more harm than good really, cooking all of the nutrients out of the food.

Lately I have to admit to becoming a bit more about broadening the variety of food the dogs eat than sticking religiously to certain things. If I was buying a pup (which I'm not) I'd be happiest to hear from the breeder that they are on a really good base diet, but with a LOT of variety. Might be totally wrong, but I'd guess a lot of variety at a young age might help prevent sensitive stomachs and fussy eaters?

DBB

Whispered wrote: »

I'd be inclined to think the same, not for any reason though, just because it's "nicer". Probably doing more harm than good really, cooking all of the nutrients out of the food.

See, here's the thing. If cooking food gets rid of all the nutrients, then how do we get by?!
I think there's been a little bit of misinformation going on somewhere in this regard, a bit of confusion perhaps between cooking our own food for dogs at a temperature of what? 90ish degrees (100degrees max for a short period)? And dry dog food, which I understand is cooked at huge temperatures.
Now, in the latter case, I can see how this mega-cooking could strip a lot of goodness out of food, but I remain to be convinced that gentle, low temp cooking does the same thing.. it makes no sense really, does it?:o
Maybe someone with a particular knowledge of food science can convince me!
One thing I can say is that it has been shown that dogs prefer the taste of cooked meat.

Whispered

Actually you're right, there is a big difference between cooking food and over cooking food (childhood dinners come to mind.......)

LittleMissDiva

DBB wrote: »

See, here's the thing. If cooking food gets rid of all the nutrients, then how do we get by?!
I think there's been a little bit of misinformation going on somewhere in this regard, a bit of confusion perhaps between cooking our own food for dogs at a temperature of what? 90ish degrees (100degrees max for a short period)? And dry dog food, which I understand is cooked at huge temperatures.
Now, in the latter case, I can see how this mega-cooking could strip a lot of goodness out of food, but I remain to be convinced that gentle, low temp cooking does the same thing.. it makes no sense really, does it?:o
Maybe someone with a particular knowledge of food science can convince me!
One thing I can say is that it has been shown that dogs prefer the taste of cooked meat.

Sorry but I think this is wrong. A dog has a total different digestive system than a human. Dog = Wolf / Human = Human.
Never heard about a Wolf cooking his meat!

DBB

LittleMissDiva wrote: »

Sorry but I think this is wrong. A dog has a total different digestive system than a human. Dog = Wolf / Human = Human.
Never heard about a Wolf cooking his meat!

You're missing my point... I don't really need a lecture about the differences between the human and wolf, or dog, digestive systems, nor about raw food... A quick search of this forum will show you that I'm a big raw feeding fan, although like many I'm growing weary of having it shoved at me these days, having been guilty of doing the same myself in the past.

Remember that our dogs have evolved to be able to eat our pre-digested waste, to process more starch than wolves can, and generally they're not as obligate as wolves are. So in this and many other respects, dogs most certainly do not =wolves.

But that aside, my original point is that I don't think that cooking food in an average kitchen makes any huge nutritional changes to the food. If it destroys the goodness of food for dogs, then it can't be too good for us either.
I have little doubt that the mega-cooking done to dry dog food at huge temperatures destroys much of the goodness in it.... But cooking it at low temps doesn't. It doesn't matter what species you're feeding it to, cooking it in this way makes little difference to its nutritional value.
Indeed, to illustrate my point, I'd like to thank the user who sent me the following link ;-). In it you'll find that the research available backs up what I'm saying:
http://www.2ndchance.info/rawdiets.htm

tk123

Sakes! I barely have enough time to cook my own dinner let alone the dog's lol! .

boomerang

I'm happiest giving a varied, home-cooked diet.

I think as our understanding of canine digestion and nutrition is evolving, I don't believe it's right to be fanatically pro-raw. Boo was fed a freshly prepared and fairly varied home-cooked diet using human-grade ingredients (chicken, lamb, turkey, liver, eggs, tripe, fish). Along with her fitness, I attribute a lot of her longevity (despite a severe heart murmur and tragically, cancer) to that fact.

TooManyDogs

My understanding (scratches head desperately trying to remember food science module in college) is that yes raw food is better for us too than cooked food which is why raw food diets are increasing in popularity for humans too.(skipping humans eating raw meat because all the raw food people I've come across are veggie) BUT that correctly cooked food is still very nutritious, avoid over cooking like the plague. So it kind of comes down to degrees of goodness rather than good v bad.

Personally I'd be inclined to partially cook a young pups food to help break the food down, don't pups get partially digested food regurgetated meat from their mothers so partially broken down food makes sense to me.

boomerang

But then some foods require cooking for us to derive nutritional benefit from them - carrots spring to mind... IIRC it's a waste of time eating raw carrot - the vitamins aren't absorbed at all.

tk123

There was a ducks head in the duck necks I got today from DF! :eek: GROSS lol. Also if anyone got necks today do they smell ok - ours smell a bit weird and hoping it's just from them being in the bag etc...?

juniord

i collected necks today from the factory along with duck carcasss and hearts , everything that i got was fine

toadfly

For those if u that feed gRaw, where do you leave them to defrost? Are there containers that'll fit them properly as I don't like leaving them in the sink to thaw. Got some a while ago but only getting to them now.

juniord

i bought a plastic container with lid in home store and more for a fiver for thawing out daily feeds in , for thawing out the big boxes i put them in the shed and cover with an old towel

borderlinemeath

There are plastic tupperware boxes you can get in woodies that work, I think you need to just cut one of the staple ends off as they're a fraction too short.

Can't find the link on the woodies site for it but this is the box.

http://www.staples.co.uk/storage-archiving/plastic-storage-boxes/1-9l-pencil-box-lime

tk123

For the small ones I have a container I can fit two into so usually get that size to make things easier. For the big ones I usually put a lunch bag on either end to catch any blood and leave them in a roasting dish or on a baking tray.

toadfly

Thanks everyone. Must measure them and try to find one that'll fit. TK they are the kg size

tk123

borderlinemeath wrote: »

There are plastic tupperware boxes you can get in woodies that work, I think you need to just cut one of the staple ends off as they're a fraction too short.

Can't find the link on the woodies site for it but this is the box.

http://www.staples.co.uk/storage-archiving/plastic-storage-boxes/1-9l-pencil-box-lime

Will have to pick one of them up! Really looking toward to using up this month's batch of necks! They're not bad/rotten but just smell a bit weird/gross. Dogs don't mind thou lol!

toadfly

Woah the salmon chubbs stink! Wasn't expecting them to look like tinned tuna!

tk123

toadfly wrote: »

Woah the salmon chubbs stink! Wasn't expecting them to look like tinned tuna!

Lol! I thought the same and worse when they come to give you a lick afterwards lol!

toadfly

tk123 wrote: »

Lol! I thought the same and worse when they come to give you a lick afterwards lol!

They're seriously gross. What's in it or what do they do to Salmon to get it like that? Can't be good for the dogs teeth feeding those all the time. I only got 20 of them so will give them once a week as one will last two days.

Cocolola

I hear ya toadfly! They're pretty manky alright. I got them the first time in the mixed box and never again. There were some left over in the freezer (the pooch isn't a much if a fan either!) and I'd forgotten they were there. Accidentally defrosted one of them the last day thinking it was a chicken and beef, never looked at the label. Got an awful surprise when I cut into it :pac: I donated the rest of the chubbs to the cats back home.