**Spoilers** Series 7, Episode 2 - "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship"

I'm pretty certain in the Doctors timeline Amy is already gone (fwiw, I don't think she'll die, but she'll get "removed", maybe a bit like Rose?), and he is travelling back to her. When the Dad was sitting out on the Tardis, The Doctor gave a really strange look over Amy like he wanted to say something. Also the part where the two of them are joking around saying, you'll be here to see the end of me and the Doctor just says "don't", really forcibly.
It might explain the gaps in the visiting too, so he doesn't step on his own timeline.

Hashtag_HEEL

I enjoyed the episode! It was a bit of fun! Hope the "wild west" episode is good!

Duggys Housemate

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm pretty certain in the Doctors timeline Amy is already gone (fwiw, I don't think she'll die, but she'll get "removed", maybe a bit like Rose?), and he is travelling back to her. When the Dad was sitting out on the Tardis, The Doctor gave a really strange look over Amy like he wanted to say something. Also the part where the two of them are joking around saying, you'll be here to see the end of me and the Doctor just says "don't", really forcibly.
It might explain the gaps in the visiting too, so he doesn't step on his own timeline.

I could see this except I am certain the story always follows the Doctors timeline. Otherwise confusion would reign and David Tennant could pop back next week.

Duggys Housemate

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

I could see this except I am certain the story always follows the Doctors timeline. Otherwise confusion would reign and David Tennant could pop back next week.

Well, it would be neatly wrapped up by episode 5 so I think it should be ok, being contained in a series arc. Just my theory anyway

jasonb

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

I could see this except I am certain the story always follows the Doctors timeline. Otherwise confusion would reign and David Tennant could pop back next week.

Not always, we got to jump 200 years into the Doctor's future in The Impossible Astronaut, even if only for a few mins...

J.

Duggys Housemate

jasonb wrote: »

Not always, we got to jump 200 years into the Doctor's future in The Impossible Astronaut, even if only for a few mins...

J.

True. An exception to prove the rule perhaps?

Anyway the Pond's break with the Doctor will be in his future. I suspect it will be banal, something like Amy getting pregnant - despite recent events and neither of the Ponds wanting to leave their child parent less.

The breakup because of her then inability to have kids would make this birth all the more poignant. And, so the doctor moves on.

jasonb

I've read comments ( I think from Moffat ) saying

them leaving will be heartbreaking

so I'd imagine it's something more than just them moving on. It's hard to know of course, but we've only 3 more weeks to wait!

J.

ixoy

It was so-so. One credit due though: The SFX in "Doctor Who" are at their peak. The dinosaurs looked far far better than I expected, even viewed in HD.

The episode overall was a little on the "silly" side for me, echoing a bit of the RTD era.

There was that touch of darkness there too but one element really bugged me: The Doctor sending someone to their death. It just seemed particularly cold blooded and I can't really think of a precedent for this. When the Doctor killed the Time Lords, for example, it was for a necessary reason. He's not above making cold "means to an end" decisions. This killing was vindictive and judgemental though - that's what didn't work. Since when has the Doctor killed for no reason? I'm really hoping this wasn't sloppy writing but that there was a good reason. If there is one, then I'm going to guess that the Doctor needs companions to ground him hence he keeps calling in on the Ponds as otherwise he can go to the Dark Side.

Doctor DooM

ixoy wrote: »

The Doctor sending someone to their death. It just seemed particularly cold blooded and I can't really think of a precedent for this. When the Doctor killed the Time Lords, for example, it was for a necessary reason. He's not above making cold "means to an end" decisions. This killing was vindictive and judgemental though - that's what didn't work. Since when has the Doctor killed for no reason?

He killed a doggy triceratops. There's no greater evil in this world. And no bigger reason!

Duggys Housemate

ixoy wrote: »

It was so-so. One credit due though: The SFX in "Doctor Who" are at their peak. The dinosaurs looked far far better than I expected, even viewed in HD.

The episode overall was a little on the "silly" side for me, echoing a bit of the RTD era.

There was that touch of darkness there too but one element really bugged me: The Doctor sending someone to their death. It just seemed particularly cold blooded and I can't really think of a precedent for this. When the Doctor killed the Time Lords, for example, it was for a necessary reason. He's not above making cold "means to an end" decisions. This killing was vindictive and judgemental though - that's what didn't work. Since when has the Doctor killed for no reason? I'm really hoping this wasn't sloppy writing but that there was a good reason. If there is one, then I'm going to guess that the Doctor needs companions to ground him hence he keeps calling in on the Ponds as otherwise he can go to the Dark Side.

it bugs me that people think the doctor doesn't let sentient creatures die. Last week he let millions of daleks die - he didn't try and save the planet. presumably he sees all daleks as evil. In this case this man was evil, and unreformable, so he let him die.

Das Kitty

I enjoyed the episode, not as much as I did last week's granted.

I liked how Doctor-ish Amy was; she was more Doctor than the Doctor himself. It was 'in character' for him to send Solomon to his death, but he normally spends his time trying not to be that guy. I have a feeling it's a case of his being effectively companionless. He's slipping back. I would like the resolution to me more than another band-aid companion. I don't know if it'll happen though.

I'd put money the Doctor hasn't seen the end of the Ponds yet. He knows it's coming though, he's outlived everyone he's ever known, he knows the Ponds are no different, even if he doesn't want to admit it.


I loved the banter between Rory and his Dad. My OH was sure Brian had been in it before because it was so close to how he had imagined Rory's Dad to be . I'd definitely ask to see the earth from space if I were Brian too.

cloud493

I really enjoyed that wasn't complex, just a good tea time romp. Plus, the doctor letting solomon die is like how he was after he lost Donna, goes a darker.

pixelburp

The Doctor has never shirked from punishing people who have shown no signs of redemption and remorse for their actions, but I'd agree that his moods in this vein tend to darken when he doesn't have a softening element around him. That said, in this case I don't blame him; what Solomon did was just plain nasty. Those poor Silurians

Also, this thread needs more quotations hehe; I loved the exchange at the beach

"... what sort of a man doesn't carry a trowel?"
or ...
"Dad, I'm 31, I don't have a Christmas list anymore"
"I DO!!!!"

Das Kitty

pixelburp wrote: »

"... what sort of a man doesn't carry a trowel?"
or ...
"Dad, I'm 31, I don't have a Christmas list anymore"
"I DO!!!!"

I love the little thumbs up Rory gives him then.

Also interesting to note that he's 31, considering they were early 21 or 22 in the Eleventh Hour which was set in 2009.

ixoy

pixelburp wrote: »

"Dad, I'm 31, I don't have a Christmas list anymore"
"I DO!!!!"

Yeah, once again we can see/hear Matt Smith's excellent comic timing. Even his delivery off camera was perfect. He can help lift an average script with such a performance.

it bugs me that people think the doctor doesn't let sentient creatures die. Last week he let millions of daleks die - he didn't try and save the planet. presumably he sees all daleks as evil.

Yeah, he's always had a bit of a blind spot for the Daleks throughout the show's history. I think though what got me here is that normally such a death is towards a greater end - kill the Daleks, then that stops them. Solomon could just have easily been picked up by a nearby earth ship and sent for punishment without affecting anyone.

I'm guessing that we'll see it tie in with how the Doctor does need people around him - we've seen him slip before in the likes of "The Water of Mars". That could be an interesting route to take. Hopefully not dealt with as poorly as it was in the RTD era with a montage trying to gloss over it.

cloud493

ixoy wrote: »

Yeah, once again we can see/hear Matt Smith's excellent comic timing. Even his delivery off camera was perfect. He can help lift an average script with such a performance.


Yeah, he's always had a bit of a blind spot for the Daleks throughout the show's history. I think though what got me here is that normally such a death is towards a greater end - kill the Daleks, then that stops them. Solomon could just have easily been picked up by a nearby earth ship and sent for punishment without affecting anyone.

I'm guessing that we'll see it tie in with how the Doctor does need people around him - we've seen him slip before in the likes of "The Water of Mars". That could be an interesting route to take. Hopefully not dealt with as poorly as it was in the RTD era with a montage trying to gloss over it.

This. Water of mars was one of the most interesting episodes to me, and the conclusion was quite unexpected. Love that episode.

T-Bird

jasonb wrote: »

I've read comments ( I think from Moffat ) saying

them leaving will be heartbreaking

so I'd imagine it's something more than just them moving on. It's hard to know of course, but we've only 3 more weeks to wait!

J.

Read a Doctor Who short book during summer:

Magic of the Angels.
Angels touched 2 girls in this and explained what happened to them afterwards.
Same thing might happen to Amy and Rory, but perhaps its completely unrelated.

Jessibelle

Well, that was... meh. All it's done is leave me with questions.

Shouldn't Rory's father have remembered the Doctor and the Tardis from when they materialized right in the middle of the wedding reception? And why does no one seem to remember River? The Dr doesn't tell Nefferti he's a married man, the Ponds can't have children (except for the one they already have)? And no-one remembers the Dr historically?
Also the Dr is a calculated killer now? What happened to 'The man who couldn't'?
And eh, totally nerdishly, why was Ten's tardis the one on the postcard, shouldn't it have been 11's?

cloud493

Who wants to remember river anyway :rolleyes:

Doctor DooM

I've been starting to wonder if the lack or remembering River is deliberate too.

Why didn't Amy go mad when Nefertiti was asking if the Doctor had a queen? It's her daughter's husband!

Sonics2k

Jessibelle wrote: »

Also the Dr is a calculated killer now? What happened to 'The man who couldn't'?

The Doctor is a killler, just not a malicious one. By now he's killed possibly billions of beings, namely the Time Lords and the Daleks.

Part of the reason he seems to keep a companion with him is that he's less likely to allow someone to die if he has someone with him.

People need to get over this belief the Doctor is a nice man.

cloud493

I think everyone assumes the doctor is a nice man. He's aware he's a killer, but everyone thinks he's nice :pac:

Duggys Housemate

cloud493 wrote: »

I think everyone assumes the doctor is a nice man. He's aware he's a killer, but everyone thinks he's nice :pac:

He kills what he thinks are unredeemable evil beings. Solomon was clearly a pyscho.

cloud493

Timelords? Daleks? Any other races?

pixelburp

The Doctor was never just a harmless eccentric who shunned violence absolutely; while most of his methods tend towards the peaceful & would be someone always seeking the joy and positivity of the universe, he also knew violent outcomes were always a possibility, albeit the very last resort. If anything, the new series tended to ramp up this aspect a little bit too far; heck the mid-season cliffhanger of series 6 was all about the Doctor becoming an avatar of vengeance - the good man going to war.

The old series tended to keep this element bubbling in the background; it wasn't always there, no more than it is now, but it could creep out and would make the Doctor appear very detached and ... well, alien. The early Tom Baker era would be the best example of this & the old Doctor had no trouble directly or indirectly destroying the big-bads in that particular story.

Wing126

Nobody forgot about River.
When Queen Nefirtiti asked Amy if The Doctor had a queen she replied "I thought you had a husband!". Which is more or less saying, "Why are you flirting?" in a tongue in cheek way. Just because she didn't mention River doesn't mean she forgot about her.
Secondly, The Doctor himself says: "That's nice, but I'm married" in the prequel video for Asylum of The Daleks.

So yeah, Nobody's forgotten about River, She's just not turned up in person yet.

Edit: Also, for Amy not being able to have children, other than River, It's a completely different thing to have a child that you watch grow up, Yes they technically did watch River grow up as Mels but that's also different. They've never had the traditional relationship parents have with children and they never will again. It's a heartbreaking thing for someone who wants to be a proper mother.

cloud493

I think the time we see best is in The runaway bride, when the doctors flood the racnoss' lair. Like, the look of fury on his face, till donna snaps him out of it.

Das Kitty

Just gonna leave this here... (nsfw lyrics on the soundtrack)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzmnPs64K74

Wibbs

I seem to remember there was uproar back in the day when Colin Bakers Doctor killed an enemy by poisoning him. Tom Bakers Doctor, while not being murderous rarely if ever showed any emotions over others being killed.

Jessibelle

Fair enough I take back what I said about the Dr being capable of killing being out of character, I really must have glossed over a lot of it from before. (and I call myself a Whovian )
I still think the emphasis on memory or rather lack of it is significant though. I may be placing too much emphasis on timing of words or some such, but the Dr says he's married before Asylum of the Daleks not before Dinosaurs on a Spaceship. The Ponds, imo, have blanked on River, (I accept Wing126's points, but my interpretation was of someone saying they never had children), and throughout both episodes so far, the notion that the Dr has been forgotten by the universe has been emphasised. I did find it interesting that, when given the chance to leave the Daleks with a clean slate so to speak, the Dr deliberately went back to goad them into asking 'Dr who...?' .