Do you consider yourself a feminist?

xDramaxQueenx

No. I'm not a feminist. I like when guys open doors for me, or offer to carry the really heavy things. There's no need to be getting bent out of shape taking offence to this, that, the other, at every given oppertunity.

mariaalice

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

No. I'm not a feminist. I like when guys open doors for me, or offer to carry the really heavy things. There's no need to be getting bent out of shape taking offence to this, that, the other, at every given oppertunity.

You can still be a feminist and have men hold open the door for you, my husband always holds opens the car door for me and I would consider my self a feminist ( my own brand of feminism mind you! not some socially constructed ideological brand of feminism.)

xDramaxQueenx

I always assumed that being a feminist meant that you were well able to everything a man was doing, and more. Being independent as it were. Or is it okay to pick and choose when you want to be a feminist?

Giselle

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

I always assumed that being a feminist meant that you were well able to everything a man was doing, and more. Being independent as it were. Or is it okay to pick and choose when you want to be a feminist?

What you described earlier I would call common courtesies. Nothing to do with feminism.

If you appreciate and expect to be able to apply for jobs on a equal basis to men, you're a feminist.

If you appreciate your right to vote, you're a feminist.

If you appreciate not being expected to quit your work on marriage, you're a feminist.

If you expect to be treated with equal seriousness and respect, if you expect your partner to play an equal role in the upbringing of your kids, if you expect your partner to play an equal role in the home, and so on, forever, you're a feminist.

If you think feminism is about frowning on makeup, slamming doors in peoples faces, being humourless, anti-sex, hating men, and policing other womens choices, you're not a feminist. You're something else entirely.

flowerchild

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

Or is it okay to pick and choose when you want to be a feminist?

How to be a feminist or how you choose to 'do' feminism in your own life? Absolutely. There are many different 'takes' on socialism or capitalism. The same is true for feminism.

cdaly_

Being independent doesn't mean you cannot ask for help when you need it. Being a feminist means not being expected to be incapable of a "man's job" just because you're female. Being a feminist means it's okay to pick and choose those things you want to do rather than being expected to do only "women's stuff" (or "men's stuff" for me)...

xDramaxQueenx

Giselle wrote: »

What you described earlier I would call common courtesies. Nothing to do with feminism.

If you appreciate and expect to be able to apply for jobs on a equal basis to men, you're a feminist.

If you appreciate your right to vote, you're a feminist.

If you appreciate not being expected to quit your work on marriage, you're a feminist.

If you expect to be treated with equal seriousness and respect, if you expect your partner to play an equal role in the upbringing of your kids, if you expect your partner to play an equal role in the home, and so on, forever, you're a feminist.

If you think feminism is about frowning on makeup, slamming doors in peoples faces, being humourless, anti-sex, hating men, and policing other womens choices, you're not a feminist. You're something else entirely.

yeah, im not a feminist.

Rosy Posy

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

I always assumed that being a feminist meant that you were well able to everything a man was doing, and more. Being independent as it were. Or is it okay to pick and choose when you want to be a feminist?

I think that this is a lot of people's perceptions of traditional feminism. Tbh I would see these things as nit-picky and spurious- a smoke screen for a real equality. For me, feminism today is about acknowledging that men and women have equally valid contributions to society. Just because a man may have greater physical strength doesn't mean that his ideas and opinions are more important. As a libertarian I would advocate for all people fulfilling whatever role they feel comfortable in, without the social constraints of gender- so if a woman wants to be a body builder or a man wants to bake cupcakes then they should go for it. But equally if a man or woman chooses to occupy a traditional gender role then that too should be valued.

Da Shins Kelly

Well, given that feminism at its core is simply the belief that women are entitled to the same rights as men, I would be disappointed to learn that any reasonable person is not a feminist.

fatmammycat

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

No. I'm not a feminist. I like when guys open doors for me, or offer to carry the really heavy things. There's no need to be getting bent out of shape taking offence to this, that, the other, at every given oppertunity.

I don't think you really understand what being a feminist means if you think it excludes having basic manners.

xDramaxQueenx

fatmammycat wrote: »

I don't think you really understand what being a feminist means if you think it excludes having basic manners.

why is it basic manners?? I understand its a nice thing to do, but why should a man give up his seat and stand to let a woman sit down? what makes her more entitled to his seat than him?

Rosy Posy

Cavehill Red wrote: »

You do know that novel is entirely about how feminism went wrong and the terrible impact it had on women's lives, don't you?

I did read the book, but with a critical eye I'd hasten to add. I found the subject matter and the author's point of view interesting but I don't think he quite 'gets' the female characters- they're less people in their own right than illustrations of the different guises of femininity under the male gaze, which informs my reading of the novel as a whole. I think it says more about Martin Amis as a man and his attitude to women than it does about feminism in general. As an aside, I think he does male characters and sexual tension brilliantly, in this and his other novels.

pwurple

I offer to help lift things for the eldery, or for small children. I open doors for people. It's just courtesy. Totally seperate to feminism.

Feminism is about equality. I would be pretty miffed if my husband could vote and I couldn't.

Jerrica

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

why is it basic manners?? I understand its a nice thing to do, but why should a man give up his seat and stand to let a woman sit down? what makes her more entitled to his seat than him?

You never mentioned giving up seats, you said you like it when guys open doors for you or offer to carry heavy things (which odds and basic physiology dictate he will be more able to carry). Those latter two are basic manners and courtesy.

But having read other definitions of feminism would you now consider yourself one?

meeeeh

I hate people opening doors for me. Why should they, I have perfectly functioning pair of hands so I'm well able to do that myself. Besides I don't have patience to wait for it. Carrying heavy stuff is different, if it is too heavy for me, but otherwise we have no rules who carries what.

xDramaxQueenx

Jerrica wrote: »

You never mentioned giving up seats, you said you like it when guys open doors for you or offer to carry heavy things (which odds and basic physiology dictate he will be more able to carry). Those latter two are basic manners and courtesy.

But having read other definitions of feminism would you now consider yourself one?

Sorry, I should have been more general. Appreciating chivalry. I don't really partake in voting, but I guess it's good to have the option there. I don't feel offended that if I ever have kids, that I'll probably be the one at home minding them until they're old enough for me to go back to work. I wouldn't expect their father to sit at home. I think its just basic respect to be honest, not really got much to do with the chest punching feminists we have today. That is not to say Im not grateful to the feminists from the past.

Nowadays, it just seems to me people are waiting and watching for oppertunities to take offense at.

Jerrica

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

Sorry, I should have been more general. Appreciating chivalry. I don't really partake in voting, but I guess it's good to have the option there. I don't feel offended that if I ever have kids, that I'll probably be the one at home minding them until they're old enough for me to go back to work. I wouldn't expect their father to sit at home. I think its just basic respect to be honest, not really got much to do with the chest punching feminists we have today. That is not to say Im not grateful to the feminists from the past.

Nowadays, it just seems to me people are waiting and watching for oppertunities to take offense at.

ok, there's a lot there that might cause a few head scratches

So you don't vote, that's your choice. But can you imagine what it would be like to be told you're not allowed to vote simply because you are a woman? There's a fair few people who would argue it's not just good but right to have the option there.

If you have kids and want to be a stay at home Mum that's entirely up to you, but can you envisage a society where ALL women had no choice in the matter? Would that be fair?

And 'chest punching feminists' is an unfortunate and quite offensive term to use, granted you have extreme feminists but I think what can generally be seen from the prevailing beliefs here and many thread like it is that feminists are simply people (men and women) who believe in equal rights for both genders. What they choose to do with those rights is their business. Not all feminists are extreme, feic no, they're very much in the minority

Fenian Army

Nope, I'm an egalitarianist

xDramaxQueenx

Jerrica wrote: »

ok, there's a lot there that might cause a few head scratches

So you don't vote, that's your choice. But can you imagine what it would be like to be told you're not allowed to vote simply because you are a woman? There's a fair few people who would argue it's not just good but right to have the option there.

If you have kids and want to be a stay at home Mum that's entirely up to you, but can you envisage a society where ALL women had no choice in the matter? Would that be fair?

And 'chest punching feminists' is an unfortunate and quite offensive term to use, granted you have extreme feminists but I think what can generally be seen from the prevailing beliefs here and many thread like it is that feminists are simply people (men and women) who believe in equal rights for both genders. What they choose to do with those rights is their business. Not all feminists are extreme, feic no, they're very much in the minority

This thread is an example of what I mean, right. Not an attack on your post at all but an observation.

The title of the thread is "do you consider yourself a feminist". I answered the original question by stating, no i don't consider myself to be a feminist.
All of a sudden, people are quoting me and listing a heap of reasons that should I be of the mindset of something, that would make me a feminist.

One of the things I don't like about the feminist culture is them ramming their beliefs down other peoples throat. I stated twice already Im not a feminist, however, thats not good enough and my posts will be picked apart until I agree with someone that "oh wait, i am a feminist, i just never knew". Case in point. Its one of the main reasons I would NEVER identify myself as being a feminist.

Chimpokomon

So you don't think women should be equal to men. Cool.

meeeeh

Chimpokomon wrote: »

So you don't think women should be equal to men. Cool.

Of course because you are allowed to think that women should be equal to men, only when you also define yourself as feminist.

And everybody being christened is a catholic.

Wibbs

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

This thread is an example of what I mean, right. Not an attack on your post at all but an observation.

The title of the thread is "do you consider yourself a feminist". I answered the original question by stating, no i don't consider myself to be a feminist.
All of a sudden, people are quoting me and listing a heap of reasons that should I be of the mindset of something, that would make me a feminist.

One of the things I don't like about the feminist culture is them ramming their beliefs down other peoples throat. I stated twice already Im not a feminist, however, thats not good enough and my posts will be picked apart until I agree with someone that "oh wait, i am a feminist, i just never knew". Case in point. Its one of the main reasons I would NEVER identify myself as being a feminist.

There's a valid point in there IMH. For me anyway too many "isms" forget it should be about choice. Choice to be what you want to be and do. To insist that someone should think or act one way, even if it's overall better than in the past is just replacing one subtle tyranny with another. It reminds me of the sexual revolution in some ways. People fought in small and big ways for people to enjoy sex in a guilt free manner and continue to fight to remove the slut tag from women who like sex etc. All good. However along with that came the feeling that someone(man or woman) was somehow dysfunctional if they weren't swinging from the rafters. Again equality should be about choice.

I'd add in stuff about how women's increasing choice has as a sideline impacted mens choice, but that's for another forum.

Da Shins Kelly

meeeeh wrote: »

Of course because you are allowed to think that women should be equal to men, only when you also define yourself as feminist.

That's what feminism is about. Whether you identify yourself as a feminist or not is irrelevant. This is the core belief that the entire movement is based around, so if you believe in this idea then in theory you are a feminist. People act as though its a dirty word or something. It's not. Nobody should be ashamed of identifying themselves as a feminist.

Ectoplasm

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

This thread is an example of what I mean, right. Not an attack on your post at all but an observation.

The title of the thread is "do you consider yourself a feminist". I answered the original question by stating, no i don't consider myself to be a feminist.
All of a sudden, people are quoting me and listing a heap of reasons that should I be of the mindset of something, that would make me a feminist.

One of the things I don't like about the feminist culture is them ramming their beliefs down other peoples throat. I stated twice already Im not a feminist, however, thats not good enough and my posts will be picked apart until I agree with someone that "oh wait, i am a feminist, i just never knew". Case in point. Its one of the main reasons I would NEVER identify myself as being a feminist.

Except that's not what really happened is it? You didn't just say no, you added in reasons why you don't consider yourself a feminist - it was those reasons which had someone pointing out that those particular reasons don't preclude being feminist. After that you stated that you made assumptions about what being feminist means. Only then was any 'heap of reasons' given to you - to address the assumptions that you brought up.

Personally I don't care whether you are feminist or not, but dont be disingenous - nobody is 'ramming' anything down your throat, people are only responding to comments that you have made about feminism. Discussion is not 'picking your posts apart' and to imply otherwise is unfair.

Morag

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

why is it basic manners?? I understand its a nice thing to do, but why should a man give up his seat and stand to let a woman sit down? what makes her more entitled to his seat than him?

That goes back to basic biology, that a woman may be pregnant or suffering with cramps due to a period so it's curtsey and what was considered good manners. I've had men offer me a seat and if and when I they do and I don't need it I politely decline, cos it's good manners to do so.

Jerrica

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

This thread is an example of what I mean, right. Not an attack on your post at all but an observation.

The title of the thread is "do you consider yourself a feminist". I answered the original question by stating, no i don't consider myself to be a feminist.
All of a sudden, people are quoting me and listing a heap of reasons that should I be of the mindset of something, that would make me a feminist.

I think I was more saying that I think you have a slight misunderstanding of what the term 'feminism' is, so when you said you aren't one, I'm trying to point out that you may be one and you don't know it It's genuinely not an attack on you, not in the slightest! You associate feminism with chest punching women who get offended, I'm just suggesting that maybe you are one without realising it. Your choices are your own and I respect that!

meeeeh

That's what feminism is about. Whether you identify yourself as a feminist or not is irrelevant. This is the core belief that the entire movement is based around, so if you believe in this idea then in theory you are a feminist. People act as though its a dirty word or something. It's not. Nobody should be ashamed of identifying themselves as a feminist.

I'm not ashamed and neither are others I suspect but I would rather say that I have certain feminist opinions as I have center right economic opinions, as i have left wing opinions. It depends on the subject but I refused to be boxed in and described with one therm. Besides I have a lot better things to be doing than go through my opinions and check how many of them can I identify with one movement or the other and how many I should change to belong into the club.

B0jangles

I absolutely do. Great strides have been made in the last century to level the playing field for women in most developed countries, but there is still a good way to go. An interesting illustration of this I came across on another message board was one member's description of how she was treated before and after she underwent gender reassignment. (Male -> female). She said her manner of interacting with people professionally didn't change but she says went from being respected as a tough negotiator to being derided as a ball-breaking harpy.

Also a large proportion of the female population in less developed countries are still denied a lot of basic rights and choices - their struggles absolutely shouldn't be forgotten.

meeeeh

B0jangles wrote: »

Also a large proportion of the female population in less developed countries are still denied a lot of basic rights and choices - their struggles absolutely shouldn't be forgotten.

But that is their battle to be fought. Not us westerners dictating others what they should feel and think.

B0jangles

meeeeh wrote: »

But that is their battle to be fought. Not us westerners dictating others what they should feel and think.

Agree absolutely that no-one should be dictating how women in other countries choose to live their lives, but if we can help by, say donating money to be spent by local organisations, that is a non-patronizing form of support isn't it?

Edit: I thought the second image linked from this blog image was pretty powerful: It's a photo series created by a Yemeni photographer to illustrate the changes in women's clothing in Yemen in recent years:

http://afrahnasser.blogspot.ie/2012/08/yemeni-photographer-boushra-almutawakel.html