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Army Reserve Disbanded on the quiet by the DoD over the weekend?

  • 03-09-2012 1:25pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1


    http://www.rdfra.ie/ Message to all members of RDFRA and all Reservists. It has come to our attention that the Military Authorities have made strident moves to shut down the RDF as and from 1st September 2012. RDFRA would advise all its members and all Reservists everywhere to contact their Unit Commanding Officers today in writing seeking written assurances from them that: 1. They will be facilitated in completing any remaining training hours needed to meet gratuity qualifying criteria by the end of the RDF training year 31st October 2012. (No one has consulted RDFRA regarding any changes to DFR R5 in relation to Gratuity Qualification Criteria or laid down time lines, Therefore 31st 2012 October remains the deadline for this activity) 2. They will be facilitated in completion of any outstanding annual range practise's needed to meet gratuity qualifying criteria by the end of RDF training year 31st October 2012. I would urge all reservists to seek such assurances in writing this week as many reservists have been instructed that a new deadline of this Friday 7th September is being imposed (which is not provided for in DFR R5). RDFRA would assure all of its members and all Reservists everywhere that any Reservists found to have been unfairly denied their gratuity payment for training year 2012 will have all of their cases pursued to a satisfactory conclusion. For and on behalf of the National Executive of RDFRA Tom Walsh General Secretary RDFRA UPDATE ABOUT EMERGENCY NATIONAL EXECUTIVE MEETING IN MULLINGAR ON SATURDAY 01 SEPTEMBER 2012 The National Executive of RDFRA convened an emergency meeting on Saturday 1st of September 2012 in Mullingar. The purpose of this meeting was to consider and analyse information which has come into our possession in relation to Admin Order 02/ 2012 Implementation of Defence Forces Re-Org Plan 2012. Feedback from RDF Units / personnel around the country is that no further RDF training is to take place after 01/09/2012. Some unit accounts have already been closed down which effectively means that they can no longer operate, train or do anything. Units / personnel have been instructed to commence compilation of end of training year data / records by the end of this week in order that gratuity claims may be processed. (With nothing processed after that date). RDF training year 2013 is not to commence on 1st November 2012 as would routinely be the case. General Secretary of RDFRA Tom Walsh met with Military C&A at 15:30hrs on Thursday 30th August last where he was assured by OIC Mil C&A that, RDF training was set to continue post September 1st 2012, there would be no issues with RDF personnel being facilitated in terms of processing / qualification for gratuity etc. However, given the clear intent of Admin Order 02 /2012 and the subsequent flurry of activity in relation to meeting its requirements, RDFRA believes that the evidence is irrefutable that the Military authorities are pre-empting any formal announcement of any decision on the future structure, shape and role of the RDF by withdrawing resource support from it and closing it down in advance of any formal announcement on our future. To that end RDFRA do not accept that assurances given to us at our meeting with Mil C&A last week. RDFRA would re-assure all of its members and all reservists everywhere that we will not accept this treatment at the hands of the Military Authorities and will fight this insult to our organisation with all means at our disposal. For and on behalf of the National Executive RDFRA Tom Walsh Gereral Secretary


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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Kosseegan


    It would seem to be a logical follow-on from the re-organisation. Regular units will have to take over the training function.
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/reserve-army-to-be-pulled-from-rural-areas-after-review-3173499.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,267 ✭✭✭concussion


    What is contained in Admin Order 02 /2012?
    Have RDFRA contacted RDF O/C's to confirm any of this?
    What was discussed at the emergency National Executive Meeting?
    Why are Reservists being told to directly contact their O/C's, shouldn't we be using our chain of command?


    This all sounds a bit panicked TBH. I dread to think what their FB page is like.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    I can't imagine that the Army is authorised to disband half its own force without some go-ahead from at least the Minister...

    A little more info on the backstory is likely required. Concussion has hit the nail on the head.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,798 ✭✭✭Local-womanizer


    I can't imagine that the Army is authorised to disband half its own force without some go-ahead from at least the Minister...

    A little more info on the backstory is likely required. Concussion has hit the nail on the head.

    Further in from this, is the Dail not out on break at the moment?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭fenris


    I think it is somewhere between a fsckup and flying a kite to see what level of reaction/protest will be created.

    Big reaction and it will have been a "clerical error" and some reduced form of the disbandment happens, little reaction and the full disbandment becomes official.

    It seems to the be standard half arsed method.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭Doctor14


    concussion wrote: »
    What is contained in Admin Order 02 /2012?

    Having seen it myself, it does not say what RDFRA are claiming it says.... not even close. I can see why there would be a reaction but, from what I am hearing, RDFRA haven't even seen it themselves and are reacting to rumours of what it says.

    I won't go into the details of it here but this is a complete over reaction by RDFRA.


  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Maoltuile


    I can't imagine that the Army is authorised to disband half its own force without some go-ahead from at least the Minister...

    A little more info on the backstory is likely required. Concussion has hit the nail on the head.

    It doesn't appear to be disbanding. Not even Shatter would dare drop nearly half the DF without first making a statement to the Dáil.

    It's administrative tidying-up ahead of big changes that the f**king RDFRA-heads have created a panic with (not least by apparently not asking anyone about the purpose of the instruction before cranking up their Facebook page).


  • Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭thefishone


    I was told the panic was from a badly written letter*.
    It was supposed to be about the Reserve Units in the Western Bde,which were to have all accounts closed/Submitted and transferred to their new Bde.
    However as we know,some people might have misunderstood and thought the Reserve was being shut down.

    *May have been a text message*


  • Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭Doctor14


    thefishone wrote: »
    I was told the panic was from a badly written letter*.
    It was supposed to be about the Reserve Units in the Western Bde,which were to have all accounts closed/Submitted and transferred to their new Bde.
    However as we know,some people might have misunderstood and thought the Reserve was being shut down.

    *May have been a text message*
    The letter was not "badly written". It was not about the West. It was a panic started by RDFRA over what was a simple admin order.

    I read it last week, it raised an eyebrow but that was it. No panic.

    I note that RDFRA have gone all quiet on the panic they caused - I think it is the 2nd time this year that they have encouraged Mutiny.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭testicle


    Doctor14 wrote: »
    I note that RDFRA have gone all quiet on the panic they caused - I think it is the 2nd time this year that they have encouraged Mutiny.

    It is. They got a right rap on the knuckles the first time.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    OK, RDFRA is being run by idiots. That's a granted. But the other question is what sort of atmosphere exists in the relationship between the RDF and PDF/DoD to make RDFRA so gunshy to begin with? They obviously believe themselves to be under realistic threat of their existence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    OK, RDFRA is being run by idiots. That's a granted. But the other question is what sort of atmosphere exists in the relationship between the RDF and PDF/DoD to make RDFRA so gunshy to begin with? They obviously believe themselves to be under realistic threat of their existence.

    Possibly becayuse their membership, ever diminishing, has realised their absolute pointlessness, other than to create self importance for its committeee.


  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Maoltuile


    OK, RDFRA is being run by idiots. That's a granted. But the other question is what sort of atmosphere exists in the relationship between the RDF and PDF/DoD to make RDFRA so gunshy to begin with? They obviously believe themselves to be under realistic threat of their existence.

    RDF relationships with the PDF vary widely, usually depending on your Corps and if you have a co-located PDF unit. RDFRA... well, where to start on that one. They've never learnt to prioritise the right things, reflecting the gone-to-seed nature of some of the officials.


  • Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭Doctor14


    OK, RDFRA is being run by idiots. That's a granted. But the other question is what sort of atmosphere exists in the relationship between the RDF and PDF/DoD to make RDFRA so gunshy to begin with? They obviously believe themselves to be under realistic threat of their existence.
    Well, there was always a good relationship between RDFRA and the Army. But the Grat debacle in 2008 (?) soured things a bit. A negotiated agreement was changed at the last minute by the Army and signed off on. This led to a lot of resentment towards RDFRA and a changing of the guard over the last few years. But the new guys have slowly realised that their aggressive tactics are getting them nowhere and are getting more militant (and still getting nowhere). There is also big splits in the organisation with people leaving in droves and each group fighting for different things, most of which is irrelevant. And then you have the eternal problem that RDFRA have never actually held the sub unit reps accountable and most of the "representatives" don't actually represent anyone except themselves, hence a wide gulf between the head guys and the ordinary member. It is like each group are fighting for scraps, they have no set policies on anything and make it up as they go along. And given the money that is pumped into the organisation, people are not happy with the haphazardness of it all and the infighting.

    And the continuing hostility towards the Army has led to the Army shutting out RDFRA, making them irrelevant and leading to more people leaving. This latest mess, and the previous "mutiny", have swung an awful lot of people against them. I've heard they are now banned from most barracks and units with few Company commanders allowing them to talk to troops due to their encouragement of mutiny.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Has there been suggestion given to a rival association then?


  • Registered Users Posts: 629 ✭✭✭The Radiator


    I dunno, maybe


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭fenris


    I think that this reflects the situation as a whole in Ireland at the moment where the darwinian pre-budget process seems to be to make a leak, gauge the reaction, row back if the reaction is too strong and push on if it can be gotten away with, the news today was a prime example in the health service.

    It is unfortunate that this has spilled over into the military but is not entirely unexpected.
    The clear message is if you value an organisation or service you have to fight for it in a vocal and public manner at the first sniff of a potential threat.
    Like it or not the threat is political and that is the battleground on which the outcome will be decided.

    Members value the RDF and are prepared to defend it as an organisation whether RDFRA are involved or not.

    The important thing to remember about the RDF is that them members have more scope than the PDF to put their point of view to politicians in a manner that cannot be as easily ignored.
    RDFRA can attempt to channel that influence and their success will be based on their results. If they are not perceived as doing a good job then they become irrelevant (Darwin again).

    A functional representative organisation can be useful to all parties, serving as a single collection point allowing items to be addressed in a controlled and co-ordinated manner, however if it becomes a means of keeping items off of the agenda, long fingering items or pushing the agenda or specific interest groups then it fails and fades0.

    If RDFRA fails as an representative organisation then people will seek representation elsewhere and are free to do so, the result will be parish pump politics at its finest and all the erratic decision making that falls out from that, whether that is better or worse that the current situation is open to debate, but then again that is the country we live in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭Doctor14


    fenris wrote: »
    If RDFRA fails as an representative organisation then people will seek representation elsewhere and are free to do so, the result will be parish pump politics at its finest and all the erratic decision making that falls out from that, whether that is better or worse that the current situation is open to debate, but then again that is the country we live in.
    Correct me if I am wrong but what you are saying is that we should accept RDFRA with all its failings because it is the best we can get? And its attempts at encouraging "mutiny" are acceptable given the current political climate?

    Shouldn't we be looking for far better from a Representative Organisation? Especially given that many of its fundamental problems are down to internal organisation rather than lack of money (not a problem) and Political environment. RDFRA could be a far better organisation tomorrow IF IT DECIDED to be at no cost.

    As for setting up a separate organisation? 1 it is illegal (RDFRA needed a ministerial act to get set up and any other organisation would be classed as political agitation) and 2. isn't there something about the first thing on the agenda of any Irish organisation is a split!!!

    SPLITTERS!!!!
    http://www.youtube.com/embed/gb_qHP7VaZE


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭fenris


    Doctor14 wrote: »
    Correct me if I am wrong but what you are saying is that we should accept RDFRA with all its failings because it is the best we can get?

    Absolutely not, what I am saying is that if RDFRA doesn't cut the mustard then it will fade to irrelevance, that decision will be made by the individuals it claims to represent based on the perceived effectiveness of RDFRA.
    If RDFRA pull up its socks and fulfill their function then grand, but nobody is under any obligation to wait for that to happen.

    Representations to local politicians can be made regardless of the state of RDFRA because that is how this country works, the success of those representations is dependent on purely local factors. Cumulative representation may yield results far in excess of those achievable via a representative organisation.

    Political activity is not forbidden to members of the RDF, indeed many politicians have spent time in the FCA/RDF over the years, something that they are quick to point out when they are at the doorstep of a PDF/RDF house looking for votes.

    As far as a separate organisation goes, there is not much evidence to suggest that the result would be any different. Ministerial recognition is all well and good, sounds great but any individual or organisation needs to be judged by actions and results not on their good intentions. If it doesn't work then people will try something different, there is a term for carrying out the same actions and expecting different results!

    The current climate both political and economic means most peoples actions are more focused in every every aspect of life, there is not the time or energy available to be wasted by engaging in suboptimal behaviour, those who do lose out to those who are more focused.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    Their silly comments on FB raised the hackles on a few bods to whack out the usual feck the PDF etc... good to see one or two people telling others to remember their oaths and that the PDF are their comrades, their mates and in some cases ex RDF members and to stop yabbering on like idiots. Its not nor should it ever be a them and us situation.

    Reservists do need a representative body, but the current one, which actually does include a couple of decent bods, is however a little shortsighted IMO. they do push for some silly things, but they need to focus their energy and vision if they want to again garnish support. maybe having a yearly annual membership instead of this crappy % of your salary would help.

    A focused mission statement and realistic movement towards getting the RDF to where it should be, a professional, available, fit, hard working, VIABLE, reserve component of the army with a DEFINED role. Looking at the key elements of job protection, increased training, getting out and promoting the benefits of the reserves and of its members to the public. Repeatedly I have begged them to look at the TA and its representative group and how THEY do things, but it falls on deaf ears which is why im not a member.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭RedWolfCQB


    Anyone have a link to this facebook page? I can't find it? Nothing coming up for RDF or Reserve defence forces.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    search for rd fra yes with a space between the RD and the FRA.


  • Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭RedWolfCQB


    Morphéus wrote: »
    search for rd fra yes with a space between the RD and the FRA.

    ha ha you seem annoyed by that spacing?! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭RedWolfCQB


    Ah I see why its Rd Fra, its because its a human profile for facebook not a page. You have to have a first name and surname. I remember when I set up a profile for my football team they wouldn't accept United as a surname! Had to use Utd instead. Should have just set up a page like PDF page.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 Con1988


    I have just started enquiringly about the Reserves, I am 24. I just have few questions.

    Are they still recruiting, since this has risen?

    I am at the very early stage, I just got my application and just about to send it back. How long does it take for the next stage?

    And what does the RDF do in from week to week??

    What are the next stages once you get security clearance?

    if everyone who passes medicals, and security. do you automatically get recruited?

    if I do pass everything and get recruited what is the next step?

    I know this is a little bit off topic, but I thought I might get a fast response to my questions faster.


    Any Help is appreciated.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    Con1988 wrote: »
    I have just started enquiringly about the Reserves, I am 24. I just have few questions.

    Are they still recruiting, since this has risen?

    I am at the very early stage, I just got my application and just about to send it back. How long does it take for the next stage?

    And what does the RDF do in from week to week??

    What are the next stages once you get security clearance?

    if everyone who passes medicals, and security. do you automatically get recruited?

    if I do pass everything and get recruited what is the next step?

    I know this is a little bit off topic, but I thought I might get a fast response to my questions faster.


    Any Help is appreciated.

    This thread is about the RDFRA notice that was sent out, there are plenty of other threads on here about RDF recruitment though, you should have a quick look at them and post up in there.... try this one:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056737060


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,969 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Now that we know the RDF has not been disbanded, do you think we should change the thread title? "RDFRA:Oh Noes, the DoD have disbanded the RDF, DoD: No, all we said was these aren't our pizzas".
    Otherwise people will read the first post and then jump on the facebook page.

    Just a thought.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,770 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Anyone had any luck leaving the RDFRA, I'm part of the NSR and the whole association seems to completely ignorant of our existince and I don't want any more of my paychecks goign towards these incompetents.:mad:


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    Hey, NSR head, thats no different than the army lol, they dont notice us either :)

    Pte complains to his RDFRA rep:
    "Im in the army, i cant wear barrack boots out on the ground and they wont issue tactic boots unless i do a 72hr ex... my feet were cold and wet for 42 of the last 48hr ex i was on as our patrol harbour was in a swamp surrounded by rivers on an island in a big lake with no boats."

    RDFRA: "No worries, well help .... heres some sam brownes for your officers"

    see!


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    So it seems RDFRA created an unnecessary panick. Thankfully I never joined. I can still get my kit without them. A new Representative Org. seems like an idea as RDFRA appears to be officer orientated.


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