March For Choice 29th Sept 2pm the Spire.

Morag

This is one of the events happening over the next few weeks in the run up to the Expert group reporting back to the government. As well all know YD have been active so it is important that those of us who are pro choice get out and make ourselves heard.

https://www.facebook.com/events/176807265789074/

March for the International Day of Action for Access to Safe and Legal Abortion! Gather at the Spire and march to Merrion Square.

This is a celebration of being pro-choice! A day of being pro-choice and proud, speaking up and speaking out, making our voices heard. Come and celebrate with us!

If you can't make the March there will be other actions happening over the next few weeks, also don't forget to let your TDs know you are pro choice and want the high court ruling from 20 years ago legislated for.

krudler

I'm working that weekend but would have gone, this country needs to admit that abortions happen, we just shift women off on a boat or plane to other countries and let them deal with it.

Morag

If you can't make the March maybe you can make the fundraiser.

Awesome Comedy Fundraiser for The March for Choice.

Saturday, 15 September 2012 20:00 The Sugar Club 8 Lower Leeson Street, D 2

A whole host of fantastic Irish comedians will be raising the roof for us in the Sugar Club Saturday 15th September. €10 at the door, with ALL proceeds going to producing flyers, posters and banners for the March for Choice. It's so important that we can publicise the march, and what better way to fund it then by laughing ourselves stupid over cheap cocktails and beer? The wonderful Abie Philbin Bowman will be MCing on the night, capacity for the gig is 350

https://www.facebook.com/events/151641771641826/

SarahBeep!

Have to work, damnit!!

Lyaiera

I would go if I were in Dublin, alas I am living in a decent city (town.) :P

Also, I really like the idea of a comedy gig as a fundraiser.

PucaMama

krudler wrote: »

I'm working that weekend but would have gone, this country needs to admit that abortions happen, we just shift women off on a boat or plane to other countries and let them deal with it.

we know it happens. thats not the point.

illegal drug use happens too are you all for legalising that too?

rainbow kirby

Will be there

Lyaiera

PucaMama wrote: »

we know it happens. thats not the point.

illegal drug use happens too are you all for legalising that too?

Yes.

rainbow kirby

PucaMama wrote: »

illegal drug use happens too are you all for legalising that too?

Legalising simple drug possession in Portugal drastically reduced the crime rate. Not a good example to use

PucaMama

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Legalising simple drug possession in Portugal drastically reduced the crime rate. Not a good example to use

we are not in portugaland our culture for drink/drugs is not the same. not a good example either.

PucaMama

Lyaiera wrote: »

Yes.

:rolleyes: wonderfull.

krudler

PucaMama wrote: »

we know it happens. thats not the point.

illegal drug use happens too are you all for legalising that too?

some of them yes, but thats hardly the same thing now is it? this is for women who need support and not to be shunted off to another country to go through with something as difficult as this. An Irish solution to an Irish problem.

PucaMama

krudler wrote: »

some of them yes, but thats hardly the same thing now is it?

but why is it ok for one not the other? both are illegal in ireland. and i hope it stays that way.

krudler

PucaMama wrote: »

but why is it ok for one not the other? both are illegal in ireland. and i hope it stays that way.

homosexuality was illegal once here, but hey, people realise things need to change.

Morag

Lyaiera wrote: »

I would go if I were in Dublin, alas I am living in a decent city (town.) :P

Also, I really like the idea of a comedy gig as a fundraiser.

I know there are other groups ogranising around the country as soon as I have details I will post them up.

Chimpokomon

'Anti-choice' - please. :rolleyes:

PucaMama, I wouldn't bother tbh. It seems that pro-choice is the only accepted viewpoint on this forum.

PucaMama

krudler wrote: »

homosexuality was illegal once here, but hey, people realise things need to change.

it was. a log time ago. it was decriminalised. good. but being gay isnt a risk to your health. (would it not be a boost to your health not to have to hide being gay-imagine the stress) abortion is. all the risks.. we dont need abortion here.

Morag

If you want to start a debate on the topic of abortion start a new thread please.
This one is about the events.

PucaMama

Chimpokomon wrote: »

'Anti-choice' - please. :rolleyes:

PucaMama, I wouldn't bother tbh. It seems that pro-choice is the only accepted viewpoint on this forum.

cant continue the conversation anyway im off out

PucaMama

Sharrow wrote: »

If you want to start a debate on the topic of abortion start a new thread please.
This one is about the events.

no, i wont be clogging up the place with threads. they are all on the same topic anyway.

krudler

PucaMama wrote: »

it was. a log time ago. it was decriminalised. good. but being gay isnt a risk to your health. (would it not be a boost to your health not to have to hide being gay-imagine the stress) abortion is. all the risks.. we dont need abortion here.

except where we do, and instead of providing women with support we demonise them and make them go to other countries.

PucaMama

krudler wrote: »

except where we do, and instead of providing women with support we demonise them and make them go to other countries.

noone makes them go anywhere. they do it by themselves.

Morag

Ectopic pregnancies are treated by ending the pregnancy medically, by abortion.
Ectopic pregnancies are treated this way as a matter of course in Irish hospitals.
To state there are no abortions preformed in Ireland is untrue.

For 20 years successive Irish governments have ignored the High Court ruling on the X case.
This March and other events are to make the government aware that there are many pro choice people in Ireland who want them to their jobs and legislate when the expert group reports back.

Having been at the rally outside Lenister House I have to say it was refreshing to be surrounded by so many pro choice people,
I don't think I had knowingly been in a place with so many before, I am hoping that we will see even more people at the march.

Cherry Blossom Girl

PucaMama wrote: »

noone makes them go anywhere. they do it by themselves.

I think the point being made is that a woman living in Ireland and seeking an abortion shouldn't be forced to travel to another country in order to get it.

Chimpokomon

krudler wrote: »

except where we do, and instead of providing women with support we demonise them and make them go to other countries.

What if you legitimately felt like abortion wasn't too far off killing a newborn? If the very idea distressed and horrified you to your very core, and it wasn't about demonising women at all? Wouldn't you do everything in your power to prevent it as much as possible?

Morag

Chimpokomon wrote: »

What if you legitimately felt like abortion wasn't too far off killing a newborn? If the very idea distressed and horrified you to your very core, and it wasn't about demonising women at all? Wouldn't you do everything in your power to prevent it as much as possible?

So have you lobbied for better sex education and access to contraception?

Da Shins Kelly

No, I won't be in the country unfortunately, but I wholeheartedly support this. I will be there in spirit.

krudler

PucaMama wrote: »

noone makes them go anywhere. they do it by themselves.

the law does

claireblossom

Chimpokomon wrote: »

What if you legitimately felt like abortion wasn't too far off killing a newborn? If the very idea distressed and horrified you to your very core, and it wasn't about demonising women at all? Wouldn't you do everything in your power to prevent it as much as possible?

The very idea that women living in a first world country are denied basic reproductive healthcare distresses and horrifies me to my very core, I want to do everything in my power to see that Irish women have the right to a safe, legal abortion in their own country.

I'll hopefully be there, it'll be my first march, looking forward to it

krudler

Chimpokomon wrote: »

What if you legitimately felt like abortion wasn't too far off killing a newborn? If the very idea distressed and horrified you to your very core, and it wasn't about demonising women at all? Wouldn't you do everything in your power to prevent it as much as possible?

I'd accept that my views shouldn't interfere with other peoples lives.

krudler

Sharrow wrote: »

So have you lobbied for better sex education and access to contraception?

two things that Youth Defence both also oppose. Dont try stop getting pregnant, and if you do, well tough, you have to go through with it no matter what the reasons or consequences. Fantastic.

Millicent

Sharrow wrote: »

If you can't make the March maybe you can make the fundraiser.

Awesome Comedy Fundraiser for The March for Choice.

Saturday, 15 September 2012 20:00 The Sugar Club 8 Lower Leeson Street, D 2



https://www.facebook.com/events/151641771641826/

Was just coming to post this after it popped up in my Facebook feed. Any of you fine ladies (or gents, lest I forget) interested in a night out?

krudler

Millicent wrote: »

Was just coming to post this after it popped up in my Facebook feed. Any of you fine ladies (or gents, lest I forget) interested in a night out?

I'd actually be tempted, sore lack of standup comedy in these arts and its for something I support.

rainbow kirby

Looks like good craic, am away that weekend though.

Millicent

krudler wrote: »

I'd actually be tempted, sore lack of standup comedy in these arts and its for something I support.

Ah g'wan. G'wan, g'wan, g'wan.

PucaMama

Sharrow wrote: »

So have you lobbied for better sex education and access to contraception?

sex education has been starting earlier and earlier in schools. and contraception is very available in ireland. so what should i be lobbieing for exactly?

PucaMama

claireblossom wrote: »

The very idea that women living in a first world country are denied basic reproductive healthcare distresses and horrifies me to my very core, I want to do everything in my power to see that Irish women have the right to a safe, legal abortion in their own country.

I'll hopefully be there, it'll be my first march, looking forward to it

abortion isnt basic reproductive healthcare. and women can access it just not in this country. thats the law.

Millicent

PucaMama wrote: »

thats the law.

And people want it not to be the law. Hence the march.

Millicent

PucaMama wrote: »

abortion isnt basic reproductive healthcare. thats the law.

Also, yes it is. How can you say it's not?

PucaMama

Millicent wrote: »

Also, yes it is. How can you say it's not?

its realy not basic. if it was it wouldnt be so risky. basic pregnancy care would be for example scans.

PucaMama

Millicent wrote: »

And people want it not to be the law. Hence the march.

some want the change, not all.

Honey-ec

PucaMama wrote: »

some want the change, not all.

But the ones that don't shouldn't be able to dictate to the rest whether that change happens or not. We live in a democracy, sunshine.

Millicent

PucaMama wrote: »

its realy not basic. if it was it wouldnt be so risky. basic pregnancy care would be for example scans.

Well, it is basic (as in the minimum healthcare a woman can expect) if there are complications that may endanger the woman's life or leave her to give birth to a dead or rapidly dying baby. "Basic" does not mean "simple" in this instance -- it means the minimum that one can expect from the health system.

PucaMama wrote: »

some want the change, not all.

So what's your issue with the march? If you don't want the change, why not have your own march or join Youth Defence? It's all part of the democratic process.

ETA: That doesn't answer why "that's the law" is a reasonable answer to this. If Sharia Law came in the morning, would you shrug your shoulders and say "that's the law", even if it infringed on your rights?

Wibbs

Let's try to keep this all civil please. I know it's an emotive and divisive subject at the best of times, but we can all hopefully debate without going too far. Thanks

PucaMama

Millicent wrote: »

Well, it is basic (as in the minimum healthcare a woman can expect) if there are complications that may endanger the woman's life or leave her to give birth to a dead or rapidly dying baby. "Basic" does not mean "simple" in this instance -- it means the minimum that one can expect from the health system.



So what's your issue with the march? If you don't want the change, why not have your own march or join Youth Defence? It's all part of the democratic process.

ETA: That doesn't answer why "that's the law" is a reasonable answer to this. If Sharia Law came in the morning, would you shrug your shoulders and say "that's the law", even if it infringed on your rights?

arent there already provisions made for pregnancies that seriously risk the health of the mother?

also i wouldnt do well in youth defence because i have the common sense to use contraception and think others should too.

well now i couldnt do very much about sharia law :rolleyes: but i can use my vote for this topic when i have to.

claireblossom

PucaMama wrote: »

its realy not basic. if it was it wouldnt be so risky. basic pregnancy care would be for example scans.

Abortion is one of the safest surgical procedures out there, no more dangerous than having your tonsils or appendix taken out (obviously I'm not equating a foetus with an appendix or anything like that, just speaking purely on health and safety terms)
I'm not denying that abortion can have a negative effect on a woman's mental health, this is very apparent in Ireland where women are forced to go abroad, many terrified and alone for abortions, when they return to Ireland, there are very little counselling and support services available. Because of the social taboo of abortion in Ireland, many women who have abortions do so in secret, with no one to talk to, out of fear of rejection from friends and family, so of course they can be susceptible to mental health issues.
If safe and legal abortion were available in Ireland, the rates of Irish women suffering from depression as a result of an abortion would be reduced.

I myself would probably never have an abortion, note the word probably, because I have never been pregnant and cannot put myself in the shoes of a woman suffering a crisis pregnancy, my stance could change completely if something similar were to happen to me.
I don't like abortions, so I won't have one, my choice.
My best friend tells me tomorrow that she is pregnant and considering abortion, I'll stand by her whatever her decision, her choice.

krudler

PucaMama wrote: »

arent there already provisions made for pregnancies that seriously risk the health of the mother?

also i wouldnt do well in youth defence because i have the common sense to use contraception and think others should too.

well now i couldnt do very much about sharia law :rolleyes: but i can use my vote for this topic when i have to.

well by that example if the government announced tomorrow it was becoming law, oh well, its the law? do remember that condoms will illegal in this country until the early 90's outside of a doctors prescription, thats absolutely staggering to me.

YumCha

I'm definitely thinking about going to this. I'm not from Ireland but have been here a good chunk of time (a bit more than 4.5 years) and I am also very ashamed to say that in my former life as a staunch fundamentalist Christian I once attended a pro-life rally - as someone who has finally seen the light (pun intended), I want to put that wrong right

Millicent

PucaMama wrote: »

arent there already provisions made for pregnancies that seriously risk the health of the mother?

No. The government is still failing to enact the legislation required in cases like that. In the case of something like an ectopic pregnancy, it can be done to prevent instant death but there is still a shortfall otherwise. More reading here.

PucaMama wrote: »

also i wouldnt do well in youth defence because i have the common sense to use contraception and think others should too.

Start another group then. I actually think it would be more effective for the pro-life side to have a more moderate voice. YD does its cause more harm than good, IMO.

PucaMama wrote: »

well now i couldnt do very much about sharia law :rolleyes: but i can use my vote for this topic when i have to.

Well good. Use your vote then. Just don't expect to use "it's the law" as a justification for restricting abortion without expecting it to be challenged.

PucaMama

krudler wrote: »

well by that example if the government announced tomorrow it was becoming law, oh well, its the law? do remember that condoms will illegal in this country until the early 90's outside of a doctors prescription, thats absolutely staggering to me.

well there still would be very little i could against it. especialy since i probably couldnt vote.

i no they were illegal. but now they are not. and they should prevent unwanted pregnancy. you also have the morning after pill. once illegal without prescription, now available over the counter. amazing since we cant even get decent painkillers in the same way now but thats another discussion:rolleyes:. anyway, condoms, the pill and even the morning after pill all there available to people. there should be very few "accidents" happening.

krudler

PucaMama wrote: »

well there still would be very little i could against it. especialy since i probably couldnt vote.

i no they were illegal. but now they are not. and they should prevent unwanted pregnancy. you also have the morning after pill. once illegal without prescription, now available over the counter. amazing since we cant even get decent painkillers in the same way now but thats another discussion:rolleyes:. anyway, condoms, the pill and even the morning after pill all there available to people. there should be very few "accidents" happening.

Yet there are, and our teen pregnancy rate is among the highest in Europe. condoms break, other medication can limit the pills effectiveness, the MAP may not be available in time.