Ann Romney: Praises Moms - insults women?

MadsL

ash23 wrote: »

Taking my own life, if I didn't have a child it would be easier. That's not saying that my life is harder than anyone elses. But all things being the same, bar the child, my life would be easier.

That's about the only thing I can say. I can't comment on anyone elses life. The speech is a bit sickly sweet for my taste but I wouldn't find any offence in it.

Hows do you feel about your value to society being judged to be the fact you are a mother, rather than anything else you may do?

That's appears to be Ann Romney's pecking order for American society, moms at the top (women defined by their motherhood status, rather than any other merits) but having done nothing other than spend part of the $250 million net worth, she would say that.

All her doctors answer on the first ring I would say.

meeeeh

Seriously in a campaign where wives of the presidential candidates or presidents are expected to put their careers on hold, stand behind their man and look nice, is the biggest issue a speech that is aimed at certain demographic of voters that often feels a bit overlooked in the society?

Daisy M

MadsL wrote: »

Ann Romney just gave a speech at the Republican National Convention.





Isn't that a kick in the head to the many women who choose to be child-free or are unable to conceive? I'm astonished that another woman can be so dismissive of her sex's achievements. (A 2004 U.S. Census study found that 18.4% of U.S. women age 35–44 were childless.)

A few childfree American women for your consideration who are not "the best of America" according to Ann Romney.

Dancer Dita von Teese, 39
“I don’t need children to claim I’m a fulfilled woman.”

Actress Cameron Diaz, 39
“Children aren’t the only things that bring you gratification and happiness. And honestly? We don’t need any more kids. We have plenty on this planet.”

“Eat, Pray, Love” author Elizabeth Gilbert
Ended up divorced over not wanting children.

Georgia O'Keefe, Condoleezza Rice, Oprah Winfrey, Marilyn Monroe, Louisa May Alcott, Kathy Bates, Katharine Hepburn, Debbie Harry, Rebecca Romijn, Jacqueline Bissett, Rosa Parks, Stockard Channing, Bo Derek, Eva Gabor, Greta Garbo, Ava Gardner, Kim Cattrall, Gloria Gaynor, Lauren Hutton, Stevie Nicks, Christine McVie, Kim Novak, Dolly Parton, Molly Peacock, Minnie Pearl, Bernadette Peters, Bonnie Raitt, Ayn Rand, Rachel Ray, Sally Ride, Ginger Rogers, Diane Sawyer, Marlo Thomas, Lily Tomlin, Dawn Wells, Mae West, Eudora Welty, Edith Wharton, Betty White, Emily Dickinson, Julia Child, Pam Grier, Gertrude Stein.

Whilst "family-values" America warms to this woman, I cannot help but feel she has just sold down the river those women who have achieved in every field of endeavour except pushing out a child.

Aren't the 3 women you have quoted not insulting women who choose to be mothers? Why do you feel it is ok to criticise Ann Romney for her opinion but Quote other famous ladies for their opposing opinions.

Personally I am happy with my life and I don,t feel the need for validation from others for choices I have made, nor am I bothered by people who choose a different lifestyle, live and let live.

MadsL

meeeeh wrote: »

Seriously in a campaign where wives of the presidential candidates or presidents are expected to put their careers on hold, stand behind their man and look nice, is the biggest issue a speech that is aimed at certain demographic of voters that often feels a bit overlooked in the society?

That may have been true of airheads; but First Ladies with something between their ears achieved more than that. I would point you to Eleanor Roosevelt, Hilary Clinton, Michelle Obama, Nancy Reagan, Edith Wilson and Pat Nixon.

SC024

Re: below post.

You abviosuly have to much time on your hands for to spend enough time typing this post up..

The real question i wanna ask is who let you out of the kitchen :P:P:eek:

MadsL wrote: »

Ann Romney just gave a speech at the Republican National Convention.





Isn't that a kick in the head to the many women who choose to be child-free or are unable to conceive? I'm astonished that another woman can be so dismissive of her sex's achievements. (A 2004 U.S. Census study found that 18.4% of U.S. women age 35–44 were childless.)

A few childfree American women for your consideration who are not "the best of America" according to Ann Romney.

Dancer Dita von Teese, 39
“I don’t need children to claim I’m a fulfilled woman.”

Actress Cameron Diaz, 39
“Children aren’t the only things that bring you gratification and happiness. And honestly? We don’t need any more kids. We have plenty on this planet.”

“Eat, Pray, Love” author Elizabeth Gilbert
Ended up divorced over not wanting children.

Georgia O'Keefe, Condoleezza Rice, Oprah Winfrey, Marilyn Monroe, Louisa May Alcott, Kathy Bates, Katharine Hepburn, Debbie Harry, Rebecca Romijn, Jacqueline Bissett, Rosa Parks, Stockard Channing, Bo Derek, Eva Gabor, Greta Garbo, Ava Gardner, Kim Cattrall, Gloria Gaynor, Lauren Hutton, Stevie Nicks, Christine McVie, Kim Novak, Dolly Parton, Molly Peacock, Minnie Pearl, Bernadette Peters, Bonnie Raitt, Ayn Rand, Rachel Ray, Sally Ride, Ginger Rogers, Diane Sawyer, Marlo Thomas, Lily Tomlin, Dawn Wells, Mae West, Eudora Welty, Edith Wharton, Betty White, Emily Dickinson, Julia Child, Pam Grier, Gertrude Stein.

Whilst "family-values" America warms to this woman, I cannot help but feel she has just sold down the river those women who have achieved in every field of endeavour except pushing out a child.

MadsL

SC024 wrote: »

Re: below post.

You abviosuly have to much time on your hands for to spend enough time typing this post up..

The real question i wanna ask is who let you out of the kitchen :P:P:eek:

I'm a man.

Not feeling quite so smart now are we.

Daisy M

I also have to ask when you say "Ann Romley praises moms but insults women" you are implying that moms are not women, why?

steoc5710

MadsL wrote: »

I'm a man.

Not feeling quite so smart now are we.

Whilst i would agree with your post MadsL - it would only be if my wife/girlfriend were withholding "relations of the fun nature" pending my response.

I would however like to point out that it is men like you that put women on a pedestal as it were, that have caused this problem of women thinking that their place is to tell men what to do. Men like you have created the notion that women need so much protection by the law and society that the roles of men and women have been reversed. i also believe you agree with this so much I wouldnt be shocked to find you wearing a dress doing the housework and running your domestic kitchen while your wife(Husband?) is out working. I also believe you may want, or already be in possesion of - a Vagina

MadsL

Daisy M wrote: »

I also have to ask when you say "Ann Romley praises moms but insults women" you are implying that moms are not women, why?

Emmmm. No I am not.

Would you like me to change the thread title to Ann Romney: Praises moms (who are women) but insults women who are not moms (Who are women but not moms)??

I think it is perfectly clear, if you think that implies that moms are not women, I would work on your reading comprehension skills.

Then again you probably just came here to pick a fight given our recent history.

Wibbs

SC024 wrote: »

Re: below post.

You abviosuly have to much time on your hands for to spend enough time typing this post up..

The real question i wanna ask is who let you out of the kitchen :P:P:eek:

You come in here and say that in this forum? Take a week off.
Some posts deleted(and replies)

MadsL

steoc5710 wrote: »

Whilst i would agree with your post MadsL - it would only be if my wife/girlfriend were withholding "relations of the fun nature" pending my response.

I would however like to point out that it is men like you that put women on a pedestal as it were, that have caused this problem of women thinking that their place is to tell men what to do. Men like you have created the notion that women need so much protection by the law and society that the roles of men and women have been reversed. i also believe you agree with this so much I wouldnt be shocked to find you wearing a dress doing the housework and running your domestic kitchen while your wife(Husband?) is out working. I also believe you may want, or already be in possesion of - a Vagina

I see you are new here. Let's see if you can get to 10 posts before getting banned in whatever forums you are posting in.

Given the utter garbage above I'll respond when you figure out how the world works in the 21st Century.

All I will say is that that post reveals a lot about your obvious hatred of women and single relationship status.

Wibbs

Seeing I'm hereabouts steoc5710 can take a week off too, so that he may read the charter, get a feel for our forum and maybe, just maybe come up with something approaching a cogent argument.

meeeeh

MadsL wrote: »

meeeeh wrote: »

Seriously in a campaign where wives of the presidential candidates or presidents are expected to put their careers on hold, stand behind their man and look nice, is the biggest issue a speech that is aimed at certain demographic of voters that often feels a bit overlooked in the society?

That may have been true of airheads; but First Ladies with something between their ears achieved more than that. I would point you to Eleanor Roosevelt, Hilary Clinton, Michelle Obama, Nancy Reagan, Edith Wilson and Pat Nixon.

What they did with the cards they were given has nothing to do with the fact that they are first expected to play happy families for their man. And nobody represents that better than Hilary Clinton.

Daisy M

MadsL wrote: »

Emmmm. No I am not.

Would you like me to change the thread title to Ann Romney: Praises moms (who are women) but insults women who are not moms (Who are women but not moms)??

I think it is perfectly clear, if you think that implies that moms are not women, I would work on your reading comprehension skills.

Then again you probably just came here to pick a fight given our recent history.

Seriously you cant come up with an easier title like "Ann Romney praises mums but insults everybody else" though I have to admit even this title would be whooliy misleading as Ann Romney didn't actually insult anyone you only perceived that she did. Its interesting that as a man you took her comments to be insulting to childless females but not males even though in her full speech she says

"And if you listen carefully, you'll hear the women sighing a little bit more than the men. It's how it is, isn't it?

It's the moms who always have to work a little harder, to make everything right.

It's the moms of this nation — single, married, widowed — who really hold this country together. We're the mothers, we're the wives, we're the grandmothers, we're the big sisters, we're the little sisters, we're the daughters"

I think its pretty clear in the last paragraph that she is actually referring to all women not just moms. Are you really so pc that when you read an article praising a certain sector of society that you deem it to be insulting to a different sector?

Daisy M

MadsL wrote: »

Emmmm. No I am not.

Would you like me to change the thread title to Ann Romney: Praises moms (who are women) but insults women who are not moms (Who are women but not moms)??

I think it is perfectly clear, if you think that implies that moms are not women, I would work on your reading comprehension skills.

Then again you probably just came here to pick a fight given our recent history.

What the hell? I just saw this bit what recent history?? Do I know you or something?

MadsL

meeeeh wrote: »

What they did with the cards they were given has nothing to do with the fact that they are first expected to play happy families for their man. And nobody represents that better than Hilary Clinton.

Because she didn't divorce him for being a cheat?

Wow, pretty harsh. I think she did a pretty good job of making it very clear she was the powerhouse in that relationship and nothing, not even Bill Clinton's liking for interns was going to get in the way of her getting to the very top. Bill may have been a horndog, but he was a better help to her career as a husband than an ex.

She still is in with a shot as first woman President. Would you have preferred Palin?

Daisy M

MadsL wrote: »

Because she didn't divorce him for being a cheat?

Wow, pretty harsh. I think she did a pretty good job of making it very clear she was the powerhouse in that relationship and nothing, not even Bill Clinton's liking for interns was going to get in the way of her getting to the very top. Bill may have been a horndog, but he was a better help to her career as a husband than an ex.

She still is in with a shot as first woman President. Would you have preferred Palin?

I would prefer a woman who was honest about her personal life and wasnt so power driven that she felt the need to sacrafice her dignity and respect by staying with a man who cheated on her, in order to further her career. Fair enough if she forgave him and stayed with him because of love but I perceive their marriage to be one of convenience which is a farce.

meeeeh

MadsL wrote: »

Because she didn't divorce him for being a cheat?

Wow, pretty harsh. I think she did a pretty good job of making it very clear she was the powerhouse in that relationship and nothing, not even Bill Clinton's liking for interns was going to get in the way of her getting to the very top. Bill may have been a horndog, but he was a better help to her career as a husband than an ex.

She still is in with a shot as first woman President. Would you have preferred Palin?

no because she stood by him and smiled for the cameras. There is something seriously wrong in a system where your partner is important for you career. What has that to do with Palin, I really don't know.

You are implying that the speech was insulting to women, I'm saying that the whole process of electing American president is insulting to women. And that is without starting on the issues of female representation in most countries anyway. So no I don't find the speech insulting I find insulting that in elections for a president matters what prewritten speech their partner delivers. They are not running for the position so why shoul I care what they think.

eviltwin

Ann Romney is entitled to address whoever she wants. I remember Obama making speeches directly to black voters, no one mentioned it was insulting to whites. We'll see the same thing here in a few years, TD's going to certain areas to butter them up.

I'm not the kind of mother Mrs Romney believes in for a variety of reasons but I don't feel that she is insulting me because I don't fit her image of what a mother should be. She is entitled to her opinion whatever it may be.

MadsL

Daisy M wrote: »

Seriously you cant come up with an easier title like "Ann Romney praises mums but insults everybody else"

All women are women. Not all women are mothers. It is pretty simple.
She insults all women by a) failing to acknowledge the strides women have made in all fields of achievement and only focusing on moms and b) for women who are moms, they have to be defined by it?

though I have to admit even this title would be whooliy misleading as Ann Romney didn't actually insult anyone you only perceived that she did.

Wow, I'm not alone here, this isn't imaginary: http://www.thechildfreelife.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20824&view=unread
http://graiae.wordpress.com/2012/08/29/ann-romney-knows-women/

Its interesting that as a man you took her comments to be insulting to childless females but not males even though in her full speech she says

"And if you listen carefully, you'll hear the women sighing a little bit more than the men. It's how it is, isn't it?

Actually, that is also insulting, but the GOP really seem to have a thing about women lately, Ann Romney is the latest in a string of attacks on women.

It's the moms who always have to work a little harder, to make everything right.

It's the moms of this nation — single, married, widowed — who really hold this country together. We're the mothers, we're the wives, we're the grandmothers, we're the big sisters, we're the little sisters, we're the daughters"

I think its pretty clear in the last paragraph that she is actually referring to all women not just moms.

It would be in total isolation, but look at the context of the speech, moms, moms and more moms.

Are you really so pc that when you read an article praising a certain sector of society that you deem it to be insulting to a different sector?

Are you really so deaf to the subtext that excludes the recognition of all women including childfree women making a contribution to society.

Let me change her speech to reflect race and see how it feels...

It's the white folks who always have to work a little harder, to make everything right.

It's the white people of this nation -- single, married, widowed -- who really hold this country together. We're the mothers, we're the wives, we're the grandmothers, we're the big sisters, we're the little sisters, we're the daughters.

You know it's true, don't you?

You are the best of America.

You are the hope of America.

There would not be an America without you.

Tonight, we salute you and sing your praises.

Still not hearing it?

meeeeh

There should be Goodwin for race arguments. You don't choose your race, you can choose if you want to have a child.

Ellsbells

Can I ask why you consider this of interest on an Irish Ladies forum. The exerpt you quote specifically relates to american women. Your profile advises you are based in the US. Why pedal your views here?

A Primal Nut

You could just as easily say she is insulting men by saying moms are the best of America. That said, I doubt any men are too worried about her comments right now.

It really isn't a big deal, next week their campaign team will be saying policemen are the best of America; the next week whoever else they are talking to.

MadsL

Ellsbells wrote: »

Can I ask why you consider this of interest on an Irish Ladies forum.

Can I ask why would you object? I assume some Irish women are interested in gender and US politics? Am I wrong? If you are not interested in gender politics in general and Republican gender politics in particular, then don't read the thread. I see a mod has been by and has no issue with the topic.

The exerpt you quote specifically relates to american women.

Oh, so that thread on the Quiverfull movement should be locked then?

Your profile advises you are based in the US. Why pedal your views here?

Pedal my views??? If you don't want to discuss this, why are you posting here? I'm not sure what you think you are defending? The 'purity' of TLL?

MadsL

meeeeh wrote: »

There should be Goodwin for race arguments. You don't choose your race, you can choose if you want to have a child.

And saying that that choice makes you better than everyone else is offensive in my view. That's Ann Romney's "moms" speech in a nutshell.

Maple

Ellsbells wrote: »

Can I ask why you consider this of interest on an Irish Ladies forum. The exerpt you quote specifically relates to american women. Your profile advises you are based in the US. Why pedal your views here?

If you have an issue with a post/thread or it's relevance to the TLL forum, please report it and let the moderators handle it rather than dragging the thread off topic.

Thanks,

Maple

Stheno

Ellsbells wrote: »

Can I ask why you consider this of interest on an Irish Ladies forum. The exerpt you quote specifically relates to american women. Your profile advises you are based in the US. Why pedal your views here?

I actually find this very interesting, I've a deep interest in US politics and how divisive it can be, and have even read a few good books from Richard North Patterson which explain albeit fictionally how an "Unsuitable" partner can impact on one's prospects in politics.

Happens here plenty too, remember the wife of the minister found drunk driving? Would it even have made the national press were she not the wife of a minister?

Personally in the States, I'd probably be classed as a Democrat but to the right of Democrats. Romney represents the closest presidential candidate to the Tea Party in the US that I can think of in recent times, incredibly right wing, incredibly anti-women, anti anything/everybody non white, non tax paying, everything that doesn't fit his narrow sphere.

His wife contributing to enhancing his image is for me a sadness and also a statement on US politics, how entrenched they are in their views.

Strangely enough, I've no problem with her staying home and having kids, and being a SATM supporting her husband, but to make the statement she has, is very focussed on an anti Obama, anti equality of any kind type stance.

It just leads in to trying to get the womens vote for Romney.

MadsL

Stheno wrote: »

I actually find this very interesting, I've a deep interest in US politics and how divisive it can be, and have even read a few good books from Richard North Patterson which explain albeit fictionally how an "Unsuitable" partner can impact on one's prospects in politics.

Happens here plenty too, remember the wife of the minister found drunk driving? Would it even have made the national press were she not the wife of a minister?

Personally in the States, I'd probably be classed as a Democrat but to the right of Democrats. Romney represents the closest presidential candidate to the Tea Party in the US that I can think of in recent times, incredibly right wing, incredibly anti-women, anti anything/everybody non white, non tax paying, everything that doesn't fit his narrow sphere.

His wife contributing to enhancing his image is for me a sadness and also a statement on US politics, how entrenched they are in their views.

Strangely enough, I've no problem with her staying home and having kids, and being a SATM supporting her husband, but to make the statement she has, is very focussed on an anti Obama, anti equality of any kind type stance.

It just leads in to trying to get the womens vote for Romney.

Good post.

This struck me.

incredibly right wing, incredibly anti-women, anti anything/everybody non white, non tax paying, everything that doesn't fit his narrow sphere.

Given his incredulously low tax rate and refusal to release his tax returns (a practice his own father started!) how ironic is that.

dfx-

Solair wrote: »

She's aiming her speech at a conservative audience that is like something from the 1950s. I wouldn't expect a progressive speech at an event like that.

I'd disagree.

She giving her speech to a conservative audience. She's aiming her speech at the wider audience on the likes of CNN and the broadcast networks on primetime, at the swing voters and independent voters trying to convince and influence them. And getting the hardline Republicans in behind the 'moderate'. Promoting Romney and their outlook.

That's what Chris Christie did, what Rick Santorum did, what Ryan and Romney himself will do.

IrishAm

Stheno wrote: »

everybody non white

Eh, Romney has an awful lot of non white family members. I suppose he is anti them too.

Shall I quote Barry Os anti white quotes and comments?

Sure why not.


“The point I was making was not that Grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn’t. But she is a typical white person…”


Barack Obama

“What I value most about Pastor Wright is not his day-to-day political advice. He’s much more of a sounding board for me to make sure that I am speaking as truthfully about what I believe as possible and that I’m not losing myself in some of the hype and hoopla and stress that’s involved in national politics.” —

Barack Obama(look up Pastor Wright)

“I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.”

Barack Obama(after reading "Audacity")

“I ceased to advertise my mother’s race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites”

Barack Obama

“never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn’t speak to my own. It was into my father’s image, the black man, son of Africa, that I’d packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.”

Barack Obama

“There were enough of us on campus to constitute a tribe, and when it came to hanging out many of us chose to function like a tribe, staying close together, traveling in packs,” he wrote. “It remained necessary to prove which side you were on,to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names”

Barack Obama

“I had grown accustomed, everywhere, to suspicions between the races.”

Barack Obama

“The emotion between the races could never be pure, even love was tarnished by the desire to find in the other some element that was missing in ourselves. Whether we sought out our demons or salvation, the other race would always remain just that: menacing, alien, and apart.”

Barack Obama

“There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.”

Barack Obama

‘ugly words flashed across my mind, uncle tom, collaborator, House N—-’

Barack Obama(upon reading that his grandad worked with whites)

” I found a solace in nursing a persuasive sense of grievance and ANIMOSITY against my mother's race”.

Barack Obama

Most of the above are excerpts from his books.