Time For A Bit of Forum Feedback

yawha

I would really like to see derision of non-traditional male viewpoints, behaviours, fashion choices etc. become much less acceptable. I don't think any posts which refer to "real men" in a derogatory way towards others should be allowed.

As far as I can tell, the word "metrosexual" is nothing more than a derision of men who do not strictly adhere to the male gender role in some respects. I don't know if that is what The Corinthian meant when he used the term, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, as he's clarified that he meant that the forum was too lighthearted and moderation too heavy on the hard issues. Poor choice of word though. I don't know when it's ever been used to mean that.

I'd also like to see more emphasis on discussion and sharing personal experiences as guys, and less worthless, quote-dissecting, point scoring debating contests. Debates can be interesting, but when they descend into circular 20+ pagers, they are not of much use.

The Corinthian

Necronos wrote: »

There has been one thread that was moved to humanities that I can recall in at least 6 months so TC,with all due respect,you are talking nonsense.

How does the fact that it is the only thread moved in the last six months that you can recall make it nonsense? It happened, and only moved because it was closed under dubious reasoning and then enough complaints got it reopened/moved. And it is not alone, yet bizarrely when some Feminists decide they're going to, under false pretences, use this forum for research then misrepresent views on their blog, the moderator's decision was to close the thread at their request, rather than question whether they should have used the forum like that in the first place.

There are numerous cases of this having taken place in the last two years that have led in the past to calls for a separate men's rights forum (rejected as it was 'catered to' here).

Except it's not, but at least admit that and let us all move on.

awec wrote: »

Yes you did. You clearly said that if the topics were going to be about those things then it shouldn't be called the Gentleman's Club but rather the Metrosexuals Club, clearly insinuating that those are not real mens topics.

I not suggested anything of the sort, if I have quote it. I have repeatedly pointed out that if 'lifestyle' topics are all that this forum is about, then the forum should be renamed accordingly, because it is not a men's forum, only a men's lifestyle forum.

That is not to say that lifestyle topics are not part of a men's forum, only that they should not be the only part - and moderation policy to date seems to indicate that for the most part.

I personally wouldn't have wanted to reopen it, I don't see the point of threads like that. They are a load of fluff as you might put it, nothing more than a load of ranting with zero benefit to the forum.

Then don't read the thread. I don't see the point to the online dating thread either, and consider it fluff, but as such don't go into it.

And, no matter what the moderators do, it's going to descend into the usual rubbish. Both sides going over the same old crap and at the end of it nobody has gained anything from it.

Actually there are a few things to gain from it. To begin with there's education; in a World where many still think that discrimination against men is a myth, educating people with facts on the subject is not a waste.

Secondly, it is not simply the 'same old crap' but also leads to people becoming more active on such issues in the real world too.

You don't have to agree with everything on this forum, but at least allow people the opportunity to voice it. That's just not being done and allowing a few men's rights threads on a short leash is not doing it, nor making this a true men's forum - just a lifestyle forum with some token men's rights thrown in for appearance.

The Corinthian

I used the term Metrosexual here simply as a shorthand for largely fluffy, lifestyle topics, nothing more.

Given this, and OT, I dislike the term intensely. Finally Anglophones discover that looking after your appearance is not such a bad idea and decide to coin this name as if the practice was invented by them.

Unless you hadn't noticed, most continental males have been metrosexuals for centuries. It reminds me of a story my great-aunt told me of British POW's in Italy during the war, who might escape but were generally quickly recaptured, due to the fact that they dressed so badly and thus were easily spotted. Even Shakespeare made fun of poor Anglophone dress sense.

Looking after your appearance does not make you a metrosexual, it just means you've culturally caught up with the rest of Europe.

oddman2

I disagree with the "fluff" comments, I'd actually prefer if there was more of that type of thing! I would imagine that limiting discussion to serious topics could kill the forum, as the level of debate in some of those threads can be pretty low.

I agree with Necronos on the easy on the eye thread, I don't think it fits all that well with the forum ethos.

Librium

A lot of softies in this forum, we should have some kind of test of manliness. You have to submit some videos of you opening tight jars, crushing walnuts in one hand, hanging shelves, throwing shapes, fixing toys, stuff like that before you can post

Micky Dolenz

I don't really want to say this but I feel it's for the good of you all.

I'm concerned with the amount of drinking you all do. Beers here, beers there, beers everywhere. Mmmmm beer.

Where was I?

awec

This post has been deleted.

Liam McPoyle

The Corinthian wrote: »

Necronos wrote: »

There has been one thread that was moved to humanities that I can recall in at least 6 months so TC,with all due respect,you are talking nonsense.

How does the fact that it is the only thread moved in the last six months that you can recall make it nonsense? It happened, and only moved because it was closed under dubious reasoning and then enough complaints got it reopened/moved. And it is not alone, yet bizarrely when some Feminists decide they're going to, under false pretences, use this forum for research then misrepresent views on their blog, the moderator's decision was to close the thread at their request, rather than question whether they should have used the forum like that in the first place.

There are numerous cases of this having taken place in the last two years that have led in the past to calls for a separate men's rights forum (rejected as it was 'catered to' here).

Except it's not, but at least admit that and let us all move on.
.

If there are so many examples of threads been moved to humanities from here I challenge you to link to even 4 or 5 but the fact is you won't be able to because they simply don't exist,that's what's nonsensical.

A separate forum for mens rights or what ever isn't necessary because it would consist of 4 or 5 posters trying to bully whomever posts there and little else given the way every thread on similar topics winds up going in here.

The Corinthian

Necronos wrote: »

If there are so many examples of threads been moved to humanities from here I challenge you to link to even 4 or 5 but the fact is you won't be able to because they simply don't exist,that's what's nonsensical.

I said moved or closed - but thanks for selectively picking one and turning it into the only thing you chose to challenge.

A separate forum for mens rights or what ever isn't necessary because it would consist of 4 or 5 posters trying to bully whomever posts there and little else given the way every thread on similar topics winds up going in here.

And respectfully I disagree - or at least I do if tGC is unwilling to do more than simply tolerate such threads for appearances sake. I also said why such threads are beneficial, something else you chose to selectively ignore.

yawha

Are there examples of threads which were closed before, say, 20 pages, or which hadn't become a circular argument between a handful of posters?

The Corinthian

yawha wrote: »

Are there examples of threads which were closed before, say, 20 pages, or which hadn't become a circular argument between a handful of posters?

If we want to start setting such criteria, how about I start giving examples of threads on other subjects that are over 20 pages long or have become a circular argument between a handful of posters and were not closed?

hdowney

This seems to be turning out just like you say all the other threads are, and you are one of the protagonists here. I don't think this should be a forum to attack each other. Both are entitled to their opinions, both should give them, and then the mods should decide from there. It shouldn't just be a back and forth of opinions. Just my opinion

Dr Galen

The point has been made. Lets leave it there unless some relevant and decent Feedback can be given. This thread will not be allowed to turn into one of those circular arguments that people are having an issue with.

OT

TC, you may want to sit down here, but I somewhat agree with you.....

Here's what I think, and then you and others can see where that tallies.

The reason for having more of the "fluffy" type threads was simple. Hook the guys with that sort of thing, and maybe they'll stick around for the less fluffy stuff. To my mind, any forum or indeed website, targetted at men needs to have such fluff stuff. The lifestyle stuff as it has been described as, which I think is an excellent description tbh. If it doesn't, then it will fail to attract a decent mass of male posters who would in turn benefit from partaking in some of the more serious discussions.

On the flipside of that though, you need to have some of the less fluffy discussions going on as well. The two have got to go hand in hand. Otherwise, you end up with nothing more than another generic hurr hurr, men, grrrrr, boobs, grrr place. Which is not what tGC is supposed to be about. This place is/was supposed to the older, more serious brother of BGRH.

Another poster once described this place as more GQ or Esquire than FHM or Loaded magazines.

To address some of your concerns/issues TC.

Should the forum be a place for issues surrounding Men's Rights to be discussed - Absolutely
Have the Mods (including me, I think I'm the longest here) always handled such topics as well as they could have - No
Have Posters (everyone else) always handled such topics as well as they could have - No
Should either of the above preclude such topics being discussed/debated again - Absolutely not

To my mind, if both the Mods and Posters can be on the same page here, with less of the circular arguments, trench digging and sniping happening, along with stronger, more watchful Moderation, then I have no doubt that some worthwhile conversations can be had. This will mean an extra time effort required by the Forum Mods, I'm cool with that. We'll have a chat, as it will likely be best to add some extra heads to the team there as well to help facilitate. We absolutely should not be afraid of tackling some tough issues here, that does not mean though that those with an axe to grind or a bug to bear should have carte blanche to say and post as they feel.

One final point, in what has been a much longer than expected post. The whole Men's Rights thing is not the only "serious' topic that is relevant to men. There are loads of others, and while it is no doubt important, it can't and shouldn't be the only one that gets airtime. I'd love to see more of the other topic types discussed here as well.

The Corinthian

hdowney wrote: »

This seems to be turning out just like you say all the other threads are, and you are one of the protagonists here. I don't think this should be a forum to attack each other. Both are entitled to their opinions, both should give them, and then the mods should decide from there. It shouldn't just be a back and forth of opinions. Just my opinion

I agree. I happened to see this thread here today and gave my own view on how the topic of men's rights is repeatedly treated and that this should either not be the case in a men's forum, or if so this forum should really identify that this is not the right forum for anything other than 'comfortable' discussions on the topic.

I also recognise that sometimes threads end up going round in circles forever, but this is typically not why they're closed. In the example of the thread that was moved to humanities, it was closed because a few stupid posts (not by the "same four posters") were made and rather than deleting them and cleaning the thread, the moderators closed it. The thread that turned out to be a deceptive attempt to get material for a feminist blog, instead was closed at the request of the very posters who began the thread to do this.

There are other posters who would share my views (who may not have seen this thread yet), they may not be a majority, but they're hardly a tiny minority either and to silence such a number would be a huge injustice.

Here, the moment I dared to make such criticisms, I've been subjected to numerous attacks - on my use of the term Metrosexual, demands I have to prove that many threads have moved to Humanities, and so on.

I can defend myself or go silent - if I do the former, I end up giving their views credence and if I do the latter I ironically end up giving in to what is little more than bullying.

Maybe I'll just do the latter - less hassle.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Dr Galen

Aquila wrote: »

I'll be ridiculed for this but what is the gentleman's club about?
Why was it set up?
What age bracket was it intended to cater for?

If you have a look at my last post on the previous page, it will give you a bit of the background

Sauve

Would there be any sense to the idea of throwing a female mod into the mix?

From what I've seen in TLL where they have a male mod, it seems to work very well having that balance there.

Though maybe the posters in here would feel differently, it's just a thought....

Dr Galen

Sauve wrote: »

Would there be any sense to the idea of throwing a female mod into the mix?

From what I've seen in TLL where they have a male mod, it seems to work very well having that balance there.

Though maybe the posters in here would feel differently, it's just a thought....

We already got one

Sauve

Duh! Sorry Sam

hdowney

Dr Galen wrote: »

We already got one

Who is the female mod and what does BGRH mean?

awec

This post has been deleted.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

hdowney

Aquila wrote: »

Sam34 and Beer Guts and Receding Hairlines

I am assuming the old men thread!!! doesn't exist anymore?

Galvasean

+1 for me about closing the 'Easy on the eye' thread. It doesn't really ad anything to the forum other than some nice tits, which aren't exactly hard to find on the internet...

Piliger

The Corinthian wrote: »

I never said that there were no men's rights threads; I said they are "at best tolerated on a very short leash".

This thread was closed because it was clear that a number of the mods were on comfortable with it - they could cite OT posts, but that's why the delete post function is available to mods, rather than closing the entire thread.

Only after receiving numerous PM's questioning their decision, from different posters, did they reopen it and shunt it over to humanities. It was one of the more shameful examples of moderation on tGC I'd seen in a while.

I agree completely. One small tiny section of Boards can surely be allocated to Mens Issues - and what could be more relevant to men than men's rights and feminism etc. Yet it was dealt with in a dismissive fashion.

I also find it quite astonishing to discover that TGC has a female Mod. I cannot imagine a Women's Forum having a male Mod. It would never happen. Another sign that Men's issues are not treated with respect.

Wrt some other comments here - I cannot grasp how Men's issues cannot include almost any issue, as long as it deals with Men's perspective, discussed by men. Men's lifestyle issues, Men's health issues (not from a medical pov), men's fashion, Men as fathers etc.

Some commenters here have complained about topics degenerating. Often debates do degenerate, but if left to continue with a light touch of a Mod, can reorganise and move to a different, better, level. We need less tolerance of disrespect and nonsense yes, but also less heavy handed Mod'ing too.

Princess Peach

Piliger wrote: »

I also find it quite astonishing to discover that TGC has a female Mod. I cannot imagine a Women's Forum having a male Mod. It would never happen. Another sign that Men's issues are not treated with respect.

His name is Wibbs!

Sauve

Piliger wrote: »

I also find it quite astonishing to discover that TGC has a female Mod. I cannot imagine a Women's Forum having a male Mod. It would never happen. Another sign that Men's issues are not treated with respect.

There is a male mod in the Ladies Lounge.

I don't see the connection between there being a female mod in here and mens' issues not being treated with respect, could you explain that one please?

Dravokivich

I must say, I've been absent a lot here as of late. I agree with bits of what Necronos, DrG and TC say, but then again, it's quite possible that I may also disagree with other bits of what they say.

For the most part, I think the OD thread has not run it's course, but lost it's way. Initially it was just for discussion on peoples experience with it. What their opinions where on OD and whether or not it was "Valid" or considered an appropiate way to find someone without any kind of embarrassment of using OD. Then it turned in an advice thread and from there went into people updating on their current status and then into bashing profiles (which completely lost my interest). There can be scope for the OD thread if it was trimmed back to the first few items and kept within it. However, this goes back to circular arguements/discussions mentioned earlier between Galva and DrG where the same things are due to come again and again with the discussion becoming exhausted, so whether that'd be worth it is another thing.

"The Easy on The Eye," thread it's not something I've really looked at. Maybe a couple of times but that's about it. I wouldn't miss it if it was to be done with, but that's only because I don't use it. Overall, I don't really see the harm in it.

Content of tGC overall, be it Mens Rights or Metrosexual fluff, there's room here for both. If there's anything someone wants to discuss, they should have no problem with posting it is my opinion. (As long as it doesn't breach charter / site rules / comes out dickish) There's plenty of other forums here I go through where there's some threads that appeal to me while others do not. Such as "The Easy on The Eye" thread, but I'm not going to ask for it to be done with because it has no interest to me.

Honey-ec

I post mostly on the online dating thread, and would continue to do so if it was moved. I don't necessarily think it has run its course. Yes, maybe it has evolved a bit but threads do this and I don't think it necessarily warrants closure of a thread. There has been a little bit of profile-bashing and people attempting to use it as a pick-up/flirt thread, but by and large I think most people are quick to call this out on-thread.

As for the complaints about the forum being too full of fluff, well, anyone is free to start their own thread. If you think a particular subject needs discussion, then why not start it instead of just complaining that all anyone talks about is grooming?

the_syco

sam34 wrote: »

online dating isn't specifically a male issue

Online dating from a male perspective is, though.

=-=

I find the Online Dating Thread to be good for tips and things.

=-=

The mods are mainly grand.

Honey-ec wrote: »

As for the complaints about the forum being too full of fluff, well, anyone is free to start their own thread. If you think a particular subject needs discussion, then why not start it instead of just complaining that all anyone talks about is grooming?

+1

Have those who complain ever made a thread?

=-=

I really don't give a flying f**k that Sam34 is a lady; she does a good job at modding, so see absolutely no reason for her to step down. The only person who doesn't like it seems to have a chip on his shoulder against women, and wants TGC to be male-only forum :rolleyes:

The Corinthian has a few good points on this thread.