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Annoyed to see my niece/nephews being brainwashed in Catholic education

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    #32
    M4TTH3W
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭M4TTH3W


    tfitzgerald wrote: »
    Op that's a lovely little rant you had their. Now that you got all that guff off your chest I hope you feel better


    Ps God bless you

    I get a little chuckle when the religious offer the blessings of god to those they know are of no belief. Way to take the low moral ground there fitz. Top comment!


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    #33
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,487 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Northclare wrote: »
    There's schools in Clare called educate together which are non denomination,some of my non religious or spiritual friends send their kids there.

    It might be a good day out
    Pointing out once more that ET schools and also while I am at it,and many Gaelscoileanna under Foras are multi-denom, not non-denom.

    Yes, there are plenty teacher non-believers out there.


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    #34
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    It's not like people have much of a choice between Catholic and non Catholic schools in most of the country. My parents decided they would let me choose my own religion so I didn't do my communion or confirmation. Spent a year in primary school doing nothing thanks to it instead of maths, science, languages or anything else that involve education.
    Despite being taught these things in school I didn't believe them, maybe it was because I wasn't taking part in the religious events like the others but I think it probably had more to do with my parents not telling me it was true, it was more "If you want to believe in it do, otherwise don't"
    I believe teaching children about religion is wrong when you tell them this is how it is, all the others are wrong but I would prefer it if it was something left to the parents to teach and not the schools.


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    #35
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    Dades wrote: »
    You think the catholic church has earned itself the right to teach kids about family units or sexual morals?

    I'm also unsure about what you consider a "forced" belief. If something is taught as FACT to a child how could it be anything else? Catholic schools - and mine was pretty relaxed - do not encourage free-thinking.
    Newaglish wrote: »
    You don't see a contradiction here?
    Corkfeen wrote: »
    Wrong to kill, steal and lie are things that you do not need a Christian education for. Plus God is a genocidal maniac so it's similar to asking Patrick Bateman for advice.

    There's a vast gap between my sexual morals and yours; I don't claim that masturbation or homosexuality will result in fire and brimstone. :pac: Plus,I was never actually taught these 'sexual morals' when I was in school. I was essentially told that you can have sex outside of wedlock but be sure to use contraceptives which is pretty good advice. :D I was perfectly aware of the Catholic definition of sexual morality but if a teacher ever attempted to teach that version, they'd be laughed out of the room.

    I was taught that you should not doubt the existence of god or there'd be more brimstone, this occured from the age of four. So that can easily be construed as brainwashing so that you wouldn't even consider doubting in later life.

    In terms of accepting the supernatural in the natural world, I'd prefer to get those hours back. It would have been of far greater benefit to be dedicating that amount of time to science, maths or languages than making claims of the bible containing an absolute truth. I have no issue with children being taught about religions but feck, they wasted a lot of time in primary school on it. I'd actually be okay with the education system if there was a genuine choice.
    Freiheit wrote: »
    The story of Abraham who was about to,on the orders of God ,kill his son, who cooked his virgin daughter,I remember being thought that as fact,what a terrible thing to be teaching children,talking snakes,burning bushes,the concept of sin,hell if you don't do what your told and the fact that there's no evidence at all for the existence of this guy called Jesus,time is being wasted teaching children lies. Sure a lot will awaken at some point later in their lives,like I did and maybe sooner,but why waste all the resources in this fairy tale for starters?. There can still be secular communion/confirmation like coming of age ceremonies.

    Children don't need religion to be thought ethics,to love and social social responsibility. This God who kills his son is not a fit teacher.

    Yes it is the principle,not whether the children are mine or my sisters. We are still living in a dark age.
    dahamsta wrote: »
    People are weird in what they believe. Scientology is no more outlandish than christianity when you look at the details, while of course being utterly ridiculous nonsense that christians ridicule. If they could only see themselves through the eyes of a scientist. Or even a scientologist!


    Ignorance, ignorance ignorance. Why dont you people actually try real Christianity before you knock it? Because none of you are describing it accuratley.

    And @ Dades, why shouldn't the 3 billion of us who try to be sexually moralistic teach that to others? Is it because of the 10 or so paedophiles who pretended to be Catholic, entering our ranks? How non-judgemental of you:rolleyes: Those peado's had more in common with you athiests than us Christians.


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    #36
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Hurr!


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    #37
    doctoremma
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭doctoremma


    newmug wrote: »
    Those peado's had more in common with you athiests than us Christians.
    Rather ironic (or just stupid?) that, to demonstrate commonality, you pick the very philosophical position that those pedos manifestly don't have in common with atheists.


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    #38
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    doctoremma wrote: »
    Rather ironic (or just stupid?) that, to demonstrate commonality, you pick the very philosophical position that those pedos manifestly don't have in common with atheists.

    Arguing with Atheists 101 (Roman Catholic version).

    1. Claim morality can only be learned/taught via Christianity.

    2. Try and twist the proven existence of paedophiles within the Roman Catholic Church to place blame on Atheists/homosexuals/ anyone but the Roman Catholic Church.

    3. Repeat Ad nauseam.


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    #39
    equivariant
    Registered Users Posts: 966 ✭✭✭equivariant


    newmug wrote: »
    You are annoyed at kids getting a Catholic education. Ok, let me see. You are annoyed that they are taught:
    1. that its wrong to kill
    2. that its wrong to steal
    3. that its wrong to lie
    4. They are taught... around the model of the family unit
    5. They are taught... sexual morals in secondary school
    6. They are taught.... that there are more important things in life than instant gratification and self-fulfilling persuits
    7. to have an open mind about what exists in the natural universe, and what may exist super-naturally
    8. They are taught... all this on the understanding that a God exists, and his name is Jesus Christ - they are not forced to believe this.
    Secular or Catholic, thats a pretty good foundation for anybody inlife if you ask me.

    1 ... except when the sky fairy tells you to/is on your side/is a different sky fairy to the other guy's skyfairy

    2 ... except if you are stealing children's innnocence or except if you are hoarding vast wealth in the name of some charlatan over in Rome. Take a look at the obscene wealth on display in the vatican and then tell me that the catholic church is against stealing

    3 ... except when you wear a funny white collar and you are talking about pretty much any issue of social or cultural importance

    4-8 are just so laughable that I won't even bother


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    #40
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    God bless yiz all. You have it completely the wrong way around. I'll pray for you's.


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    #41
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    would've thought trying to get into heaven was a bit of a self fulfilling pursuit

    newmug wrote: »
    God bless yiz all. You have it completely the wrong way around. I'll pray for you's.
    "i don't have any argument so ill pretend to take the moral high ground"

    off you go so


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    #42
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    bluewolf wrote: »
    "i don't have any argument so ill pretend to take the moral high ground"

    off you go so

    God bless you.


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    #43
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    newmug wrote: »
    God bless yiz all. You have it completely the wrong way around. I'll pray for you's.
    I'd really love to see you show the flaws in any of our points. I need some entertainment...


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    #44
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    Corkfeen wrote: »
    I'd really love to see you show the flaws in any of our points. I need some entertainment...

    God bless you.


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    #45
    paddyandy
    Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭paddyandy


    Try dr.raymond moody on utube for some sky fairy treatment .


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    #46
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    newmug wrote: »

    God bless you.

    I used to retreat into useless platitudes when I'd humiliated myself with shoddy arguments and outright insults too. Is there a club I can join?


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    #47
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    newmug wrote: »
    God bless yiz all. You have it completely the wrong way around. I'll pray for you's.

    I'm afraid a facepalm is all I can offer you in return for your wasted prayers.


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    #48
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    Sarky wrote: »
    I used to retreat into useless platitudes when I'd humiliated myself with shoddy arguments and outright insults too. Is there a club I can join?
    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I'm afraid a facepalm is all I can offer you in return for your wasted prayers.


    God bless both of you.


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    #49
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Sarky wrote: »
    I used to retreat into useless platitudes when I'd humiliated myself with shoddy arguments and outright insults too. Is there a club I can join?

    http://www.vatican.va/


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    #50
    Freiheit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Freiheit


    Which Jesus is that Newmug? the Jesus of 'Matthew' Mark' Luke' or John or of the nearly 100 Gospels excluded from the offical bibles?


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    #51
    doctoremma
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭doctoremma


    newmug wrote: »
    God bless both of you.
    No wonder you're looking to get married without the State being part of it. A registrar might not consider you mature enough....


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    #52
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    newmug wrote: »
    God bless both of you.

    May the Flying Spaghetti monster protect you and yours from overcooked pasta.

    May Thor never singe your nostrils with lightening.

    May Kali never order the severing of your head.

    May the Buddha guide you to tranquillity.


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    #53
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    God bless you all, especially the nasty ones.


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    #54
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Freiheit wrote: »
    Which Jesus is that Newmug? the Jesus of 'Matthew' Mark' Luke' or John or of the nearly 100 Gospels excluded from the offical bibles?

    Guide to which can be found here http://www.religion-online.org/showchapter.asp?title=1116&C=1232


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    #55
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    newmug wrote: »
    God bless you all, especially the nasty ones.

    I feel your Christian Love brother. :rolleyes:


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    #56
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    if your child went to an atheist school where he/she was taught that there is no such thing as god, your christian brother/sister might feel that the school is brainwashing your child.

    School should teach and prepare you for the world.
    religion and it's study should be totally separate.
    newmug wrote: »
    You are annoyed at kids getting a Catholic education. Ok, let me see. You are annoyed that they are taught:
    1. that its wrong to kill
    2. that its wrong to steal
    3. that its wrong to lie
    4. They are taught... around the model of the family unit
    5. They are taught... sexual morals in secondary school
    6. They are taught.... that there are more important things in life than instant gratification and self-fulfilling persuits
    7. to have an open mind about what exists in the natural universe, and what may exist super-naturally
    8. They are taught... all this on the understanding that a God exists, and his name is Jesus Christ - they are not forced to believe this.
    Secular or Catholic, thats a pretty good foundation for anybody inlife if you ask me.


    Must resist urge to reply......



    No. 1,2 and 3.

    Hasn't the catholic church broken everyone of these millions of times.

    No. 4
    god says a family is a man and woman and loads of kids, contraception and gays are evil. women are breeding machines. women are of no value to the church except to clean. they do not have an opinion.

    No. 5
    don't have sex, sex is evil, if you think about sex you are going to hell, especially if you're a man thinking about another man. Don't worry if you're a girl, we don't recognise womens rights enough to believe in lesbians.

    No. 6
    Yes, you should pray, and pray some more, then use your vastly superior knowledge about godly things to spread your influence of ignorance

    No. 7
    have an open mind, thats hilarious

    No. 8
    What happens when you lie to children. you make them stupid


    This is the worst foundation for a child. You must be trolling

    newmug wrote: »
    Ignorance, ignorance ignorance. Why dont you people actually try real Christianity before you knock it? Because none of you are describing it accuratley.

    And @ Dades, why shouldn't the 3 billion of us who try to be sexually moralistic teach that to others? Is it because of the 10 or so paedophiles who pretended to be Catholic, entering our ranks? How non-judgemental of you:rolleyes: Those peado's had more in common with you athiests than us Christians.



    Where are you getting 3 billion figure from.
    and
    10 paedo priests from.

    Another lunatic. Really hope you haven't got kids. I look forward to the day when social services can save kids from loons with these beliefs.

    There are 1-2 billions christians in 35,000 different cults
    newmug wrote: »
    God bless you.

    lunatic


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    #57
    tricky D
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭tricky D


    newmug wrote: »
    God bless yiz all. You have it completely the wrong way around. I'll pray for you's.

    Please don't waste your time and do try to do something actually useful for society instead, like picking up some litter.


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    #58
    war_child
    Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭war_child


    I find all this deeply disturbing , i went to a catholic school , wasnt brainwashed in anyway, didnt really bother me to much either way when i was a child.

    It wasnt until i got older and started seeing friends and relatives passing away, trouble in either life love or work that i started thinking to myself the relevance of having a God.

    Some evenings as i lay in my bed in a different country on my own i would just start to pray , now before u start it wasnt prayers i was saying it was talking (To whom you ask)? ....Something bigger than myself ......

    Only we as human beings would be arrogant enough to consider ourselves the centre of the universe with nothing coming before or after us, and with all honesty it offers me alevel of comfort to know my Grandparents are above me watching over me having a whiskey with their friends and my grandad eating his sponecake sandwiches that made me yack as a kid.

    Leave your children be children and when the time is right they will decide for themselves if they want to believe in God or Marvin the Martian. Until that time comes to pass allow them THEIR childhoods and dont impose YOUR ideas of life on them.


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    #59
    doctoremma
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭doctoremma


    war_child wrote: »
    Leave your children be children and when the time is right they will decide for themselves if they want to believe in God or Marvin the Martian. Until that time comes to pass allow them THEIR childhoods and dont impose YOUR ideas of life on them.
    All well and good, I'm with you completely.

    But I find it difficult to reconcile this philosophy with teaching your child to follow your religion. Or sending your child to a faith school. Or getting them baptised/communed (or whatever the verb form is).


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    #60
    tricky D
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭tricky D


    war_child wrote: »
    I find all this deeply disturbing , i went to a catholic school , wasnt brainwashed in anyway, didnt really bother me to much either way when i was a child.
    If you did catechism you were brainwashed.
    war_child wrote: »
    Leave your children be children and when the time is right they will decide for themselves if they want to believe in God or Marvin the Martian. Until that time comes to pass allow them THEIR childhoods and dont impose YOUR ideas of life on them.

    Not quite how parenting works.


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    #61
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    What exactly does making a deity bless someone do? Can anyone make god bless anyone. How long does it take him to bless you? Has he to keep records? Is god sitting up in heaven looking down thinking "Me dammit, newmug's gone on a blessing spree I'm gonna have a late night tonight. Aww no not all the atheists?! This is gotta be a months paperwork here. Uck I wish the days when I gave the orders never ended. Sigh."


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