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Value of ESOP Shares

24

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭ wiilow74


    shares priced at what minium price will be sold. anyone know..


    Anyone who had a minimum selling price of €1 or under , their shares will sell and even if you had a minimum less than €1 you will still get €1 per share . If you didn't specify a minimum price then they will have sold for the whatever the sale price was so again those shares would sell for €1 . It's only if you're minimum sale price that you specified on the form was above €1 then you're shares will remain unsold and just come back to you to hold onto or to try sell again next year at next internal market.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 pokerseamie


    thanks willow. you are more helpful than the esop team. thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 399 ✭✭ solas111


    Well, the big secret is out at last. The shares have been valued and it looks like it was a buyer's market as the value is pretty poor. See below message from ESOP:

    ESB ESOP

    Internal Market Announcement

    The ESOP Trustee is pleased to announce that the Internal Market held on 21
    September 2012 has now been completed.
    PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC), the Internal Market Administrator, has advised the
    Trustee that the weighted average successful bid price was €1.00 per share (the
    Market Price) and this is the price that will be paid to all successful sellers.
    Please note that participants who offered shares at a minimum price of €1.00 were
    successful in selling approximately 82% of the shares they offered for sale.
    PwC are currently writing to all participants who took part in the internal market,
    informing them of the success, or otherwise, of their bid to buy or offer to sell shares.
    Payments to successful sellers and refunds to unsuccessful bidders will be issued in
    the week beginning 1 October 2012.
    ESB ESOP Trustee

    25 September 2012


  • Registered Users Posts: 6 Comah11


    Thanks for info. Will have to wait until next year!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭ Cute Hoor


    It's very interesting that the weighted average came out at exactly €1, a lovely round figure, not 98/99c or €1.01/€1.02. Also interesting that apparently they do not intend to publish any details of the volume of shares traded or what people paid for them (the sellers got €1 but no info apparently on the prices paid). Why all the secrecy?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭ wiilow74


    Cute Hoor wrote: »
    It's very interesting that the weighted average came out at exactly €1, a lovely round figure, not 98/99c or €1.01/€1.02. Also interesting that apparently they do not intend to publish any details of the volume of shares traded or what people paid for them (the sellers got €1 but no info apparently on the prices paid). Why all the secrecy?

    Mmm all a bit hush hush alright , will be interesting next year to see how much interest there is for selling & buying :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭ 00sully


    Cute Hoor wrote: »
    It's very interesting that the weighted average came out at exactly €1, a lovely round figure, not 98/99c or €1.01/€1.02. Also interesting that apparently they do not intend to publish any details of the volume of shares traded or what people paid for them (the sellers got €1 but no info apparently on the prices paid). Why all the secrecy?

    Because ESOP probably bought most of them. I don't particularly care tho tbh :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 Thesafetyman


    Its the biggest confidence trick ever executed.All the potential buyers (current staff) have to do is wait until the Forced Sellers (Pensioners) have to offer their shares with zero reserve value and hoover up the shares at 1 cent each.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28 convoy


    Hi all,
    Just came across this thread trying to find information on esop shares. I'm lost with it all and no info anywhere, I got my statement of appropriation this morning with a price of e1.05 per share, now I'm coming close to being gone 6 yrs from esb ,can they just wipe the shares from me?
    Any info on this would be appreciated


  • Registered Users Posts: 9 mickey2012


    Hi does anyone know what is the story this time round with the value of the shares and is it working the same as the last Internal Market, meaning if you were unsuccessful in selling at the last market is it an average of the price again? Can anyone help please.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭ wiilow74


    mickey2012 wrote: »
    Hi does anyone know what is the story this time round with the value of the shares and is it working the same as the last Internal Market, meaning if you were unsuccessful in selling at the last market is it an average of the price again? Can anyone help please.


    As far as I know it's the same story again , we won't know ahead of the market what the share price will be , if you want to sell some you just have
    to fill in the form that PWC sent and either put in a minimum price per share you are happy to let them go at or enter no minimum and then they would sell for whatever the share price will be on the day . They sold for €1 a share last time , hard to know what will happen this time :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 9 mickey2012


    Thanks Willow


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 Thesafetyman


    Folks, But for the fact that the ESOP bought shares the last time out the price would have been much lower because the only other possible buyers are the current staff. All they need to do is wait in the long grass for the forced sellers shares and they can hoover up shares for 1 cent.
    The ESOP are going to do the same this time and continue to use shareholders funds to buy shares.
    The whole thing is a complete shambles and the Unions and ESB are standing by doing nothing until we all are dead and gone off the pitch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 Paddy6


    Folks, a relative asked me for help on this so I done a few quick calculations to determine the share price.


    Net Assets Value

    As per 2013 financial results:
    + Total Assets €12,781,673,000
    - Exclude Goodwill (€182,013,000)
    - Total Liabilities (€8,659,184,000)
    = Net Assets €3,940,476,000

    Total Shares 1,979,882,000

    Net assets per share €1.99



    Dividend Yield Value

    At stated in the chairmans statement in the annual report for 2013, ESB aim to issue 40% of all future profits as dividends.
    Therefore using the 2013 profit figures as guides.

    Profit Excluding Exceptional Items €414,909,000
    Total Comprehensive Income €489,777,000 (Consists of once off sale of assets that are unlikely to occur in future and items which may or may not be accounted in future income statements such as foreign exchange rates)

    €414,909,000 * 40% = 165,963,600 / 1,979,882,000 = €0.08383 dividend per unit of stock per year
    €489,777,000 * 40% = 195,910,800 / 1,979,882,000 = €0.09895 dividend per unit of stock per year

    The average Irish dividend yield in 2013 was 3.3%
    CRH dividend yield in 2013 was 4%
    Virdian dividend yield for 2012 was 6.6%

    €0.08383 / .033 = €2.54 €0.09895 / .033 = €3.00
    €0.08383 / .040 = €2.10 €0.09895 / .040 = €2.47
    €0.08383 / .066 = €1.27 €0.09895 / .066 = €1.50


    My views on the above:
    1.Members should not accept a price lower than €1.99 (if ESB where to stop trading tomorrow and sell its assets and pay its debts, this is what the share holders would receive per share, excludes costs of selling assets etc).
    2.Viridian dividend yield appears to be abnormally high. From what I could find Viridian paid dividends in 2009 and 2012 while none were paid in 2010,2011 and 2013. Therefore the average dividend yield for Viridian would be lower.

    It will be interesting to see what share price will be received. It is unlikely they are going to get near €2. My view is that they represent a great investment for young employees who will be able to hold the shares for dividends. However it is most likely this group will be the ones who don't have the money to invest in the shares.

    Is there any information on the financial position of the ESOP Trustee. They purchased a significant number of shares in 2012. Would they have the financial power to repeat that purchase?

    Can anyone please advise me when the interim 6 months accounts to June 2014 be released.

    I hope the above helps!!! do let me know if I missed anything


  • Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭ wiilow74


    Paddy6 wrote: »
    Folks, a relative asked me for help on this so I done a few quick calculations to determine the share price.


    Net Assets Value

    As per 2013 financial results:
    + Total Assets €12,781,673,000
    - Exclude Goodwill (€182,013,000)
    - Total Liabilities (€8,659,184,000)
    = Net Assets €3,940,476,000

    Total Shares 1,979,882,000

    Net assets per share €1.99



    Dividend Yield Value

    At stated in the chairmans statement in the annual report for 2013, ESB aim to issue 40% of all future profits as dividends.
    Therefore using the 2013 profit figures as guides.

    Profit Excluding Exceptional Items €414,909,000
    Total Comprehensive Income €489,777,000 (Consists of once off sale of assets that are unlikely to occur in future and items which may or may not be accounted in future income statements such as foreign exchange rates)

    €414,909,000 * 40% = 165,963,600 / 1,979,882,000 = €0.08383 dividend per unit of stock per year
    €489,777,000 * 40% = 195,910,800 / 1,979,882,000 = €0.09895 dividend per unit of stock per year

    The average Irish dividend yield in 2013 was 3.3%
    CRH dividend yield in 2013 was 4%
    Virdian dividend yield for 2012 was 6.6%

    €0.08383 / .033 = €2.54 €0.09895 / .033 = €3.00
    €0.08383 / .040 = €2.10 €0.09895 / .040 = €2.47
    €0.08383 / .066 = €1.27 €0.09895 / .066 = €1.50


    My views on the above:
    1.Members should not accept a price lower than €1.99 (if ESB where to stop trading tomorrow and sell its assets and pay its debts, this is what the share holders would receive per share, excludes costs of selling assets etc).
    2.Viridian dividend yield appears to be abnormally high. From what I could find Viridian paid dividends in 2009 and 2012 while none were paid in 2010,2011 and 2013. Therefore the average dividend yield for Viridian would be lower.

    It will be interesting to see what share price will be received. It is unlikely they are going to get near €2. My view is that they represent a great investment for young employees who will be able to hold the shares for dividends. However it is most likely this group will be the ones who don't have the money to invest in the shares.

    Is there any information on the financial position of the ESOP Trustee. They purchased a significant number of shares in 2012. Would they have the financial power to repeat that purchase?

    Can anyone please advise me when the interim 6 months accounts to June 2014 be released.

    I hope the above helps!!! do let me know if I missed anything


    Wow , that's helpful stuff , more info that ESOP or PWC would ever give us ! So really if anyone is a younger member of staff ( not that flaming young ) and are not forced to sell then if they can afford to , they should try buy a few shares ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 Paddy6


    As a general rule of thumb, you would never sell shares for less than their net asset value (€1.99). However due to the restrictions on buyers, the market is current experiencing a liquidity problem where there is more sellers than buyers which is depressing the share price.

    "the ESOP has pointed out that about 60% of the shares under the scheme are held by so-called 'leavers', with the remainder held by current ESB employees" (Irish Independent, April 2014)

    The ESOT are trying to tackle this problem, they currently own 3.5% of the allocated shares after purchasing 3.6million shares in the 2012 sale and have stated they will submit a bid in the 2014 sale.

    From the above, my gut feeling would be the ESOT will not let shares be sold for less than €1. In the long run, i believe the share price should rise as the ratio of buyers to sellers normalises (how long it takes and how high are the golden questions). This combined with yearly potential dividends of €.083/€.098 per share would make the shares in my view a good investment.

    Regarding dividends, I read on the ESOP FAQ online that when dividends are received by the ESOT, the trustees may not forward all dividends received to the individual shareholders. As per the ESOP FAQ online "They can be used for a number of qualifying purposes, set down in legislation, including payment of administrative expenses, repaying borrowings, if any, or paid out to participants of the trust"). Does anyone know what portion of dividends received by the ESOT does normally be transferred to the employees?

    Please note when i said young member, what I really meant was someone who would be able to hold onto the shares long enough to ride out the current liquidity crisis. Sorry for the confusion!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭ Cute Hoor


    My understanding is that retired staff (who are shareholders) are taking legal action to prevent the ESOT from participating in this flawed market - the ESOT are essentially using/planning to use shareholders finance to participate in the market and to prop up the share price - effectively using existing shareholders money to allow new shareholders to purchase shares for a pittance (you really couldn't make up some of this stuff)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 pokerseamus


    Cute Hoor ur on the ball.. Brilliant post Willow 74..


  • Registered Users Posts: 25 cannellman


    Hi all, does anyone know what the share price ended up as for the shares that went on the market yesterday ? I tried looking around the net but can't seem to find anything about it.

    Cheers !


  • Registered Users Posts: 6 Comah11


    Hi, I have checked also this morning, no information available so far!! Think we had to wait about a week after the last sale.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25 cannellman


    Cheers, I wasn't sure how long we waited the last time, did think it was a few days so...


  • Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭ wiilow74


    The last market was on Sept 21st 2012 and they announced on the ESB ESOP webpage the results on the 25th Sept 2012 so it will probably be Tuesday or possibly Wednesday I reckon before we hear anything due to the bank holiday .


  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Bannerman7


    cannellman wrote: »
    Hi all, does anyone know what the share price ended up as for the shares that went on the market yesterday ? I tried looking around the net but can't seem to find anything about it.

    Cheers !

    I was told by a person in the know that ESOP had bid €1:27 per share. He said that the price per share was expected to end up at €1:10 approx.
    I haven't seen anything anywhere myself either so still waiting for news.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6 Comah11


    Notification on esop website, 91c per share😫


  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Bannerman7


    Comah11 wrote: »
    Notification on esop website, 91c per share��


    Saw that when I checked ESB Esop website on phone today but its not showing on http://www.esbesop.ie/news.html here on laptop.
    Last time they had a market day the sale price was €1
    Looks like the shares will be worth fkuc all down the road.:eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 6 Comah11


    Would agree with you, think anyone who sold today is lucky, next time we could be looking at 9 cent!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 25 cannellman


    I'm not seeing anything on the website, either on mobile or laptop, so where are people getting 91c out of ?

    If it is true though, and it maybe is, that's bloody ridiculous. Down from 1 euro to 91c !!! Absolute joke.


  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ Bannerman7


    cannellman wrote: »
    I'm not seeing anything on the website, either on mobile or laptop, so where are people getting 91c out of ?

    If it is true though, and it maybe is, that's bloody ridiculous. Down from 1 euro to 91c !!! Absolute joke.

    Yeah I feel the same.:(

    I have copied & pasted whats on the website below.

    Internal Market Results Announcement
    The Internal Market held on 31 July 2014 has now been completed.

    PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC), the Internal Market Administrator, has advised the

    ESOP Trustee that the weighted average successful bid price was €0.91 per share

    (the Market Price) and this is the price that will be paid to all successful sellers.

    PwC are currently writing to all participants who took part in the internal market,

    informing them of the success, or otherwise, of their bid to buy or offer to sell

    shares. Payments to successful sellers and refunds to unsuccessful bidders will be

    issued in the week beginning 11 August 2014.

    The ESOP Trustee will be writing to all participants in due course.

    ESB ESOP Trustee

    6 August 2014


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 pokerseamus


    anyone get a letter from esop yet, saying if they were successful or not ...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Jimbobjones


    No,didn't recieve anything yet....it comes from pwc and not ESOP,they are very slow this time,difficult maths me thinks!!


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