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Value of ESOP Shares

13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭ Crimson125


    So clearly the market value of these shares is not being reached by a long shot in these internal markets.

    It will be very interesting to see the breakdown of buyers once the report is out and to see how much esop itself purchased this time.

    Seems strange that a company which isnt devaluing would have a devaluing of shares by 9% like this. Is the ESB now worth €3.66 bn now ? Down 9% ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Jimbobjones


    No it's not devaluing.....it's a dysfunctional market.....you'll find the ESOP purchased 4/5 million shares..they had funds available to do so from the dividends recieved over the course of the last year.....and possibly 1 million purchased by staff.....the ESOP still have the 3.6 million shares they purchased in 2012,they never done anything with them yet,and now also whatever they purchased this time....it's a strange setup and getting stranger


  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭ Crimson125


    Dysfunctional indeed.....

    Qui bono ?!!!

    Clearly someone benefits from sweeping up these shares at the lower manipulated dysfunctional price - who is that ?

    Could this be a clear out of potential "problem" shareholders in advance of a privatisation effort of some sort ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Jimbobjones


    The potential problem you speak of doesent go away unless the 5% is pulled back into the company,but at what cost/price


  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭ Crimson125


    The potential problem you speak of doesent go away unless the 5% is pulled back into the company,but at what cost/price

    At the lowest possible price I would think.......And the irony of that is that the retired shareholder that has a fair value on their shares for the sale - between 1 & 2 euros - not only doesnt sell their shares, but also gets the capital of those shares value used to strip even more value out of them !

    Current employees would do well to see how former employees are treated - so when "retirement benefits" are sold to current employees they have an example of one way those benefits can materialise........


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  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭ Crimson125


    The potential problem you speak of doesent go away unless the 5% is pulled back into the company,but at what cost/price

    Also my understanding is that once the next one takes place, if shares are still owned they will be forced into sale at a price that is mandated by the market with no option to retain. Seems like a fly trap.


  • Registered Users Posts: 41 Isityourself


    Any truth in the rumour that there may be another market in May/June???


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Jimbobjones


    Any truth in the rumour that there may be another market in May/June???

    End of may I think


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Jimbobjones


    What does the latest letter mean does anyone know.......


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 mistertulip


    It basically means that the market is likely to go ahead as planned at the end of May. It will be the last chance to sell before some sellers will not be able to set limit prices (market 3 of the series). There is a chance that the May market will be pulled, but that will require a vote by all members.

    The technical overhang will not be easily sorted. Younger existing staff don't have the finances (or inclination) to purchase at the rates sellers want. Dividends are taxed at 50%, and falling profits puts the dividends to members at risk. This combined with potential liquidity issues adds to the investment uncertainty.

    Sellers have the choice of a lower sell limit at the May auction or a potentially lower price during the auctions in years 4, 5, 6 of the market.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Jimbobjones


    Yeah,but why would they want to pull the May market unless they have a solution of some kind in mind.....how or who is going to introduce liquidity into the market


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Jimbobjones


    Yeah,but why would they want to pull the May market unless they have a solution of some kind in mind.....how or who is going to introduce liquidity into the market


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 mistertulip


    Yeah,but why would they want to pull the May market unless they have a solution of some kind in mind.....how or who is going to introduce liquidity into the market

    Thats the problem - ESB will not and cannot prop up the market (nor should they). Liquidity can only come with willing buyers - at the right price. The 60% overhang (amount held by retired staff) represents 60 million euros at 1 euro per share. That represents 8,500 eur per employee if each existing employee purchases the outstanding shares. What is the solution - a rigged market that is skewed in favour of sellers? The problem could be "kicked down the road" by extending the time that retired staff can hold shares, but this goes against ESOP rules.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Jimbobjones


    But their has to be an out for all participants,not just the forced sellers.....if existing staff by the shares,where or how are they going to realise a return on their investment,and a valuable investment it is


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 mistertulip


    But their has to be an out for all participants,not just the forced sellers.....if existing staff by the shares,where or how are they going to realise a return on their investment,and a valuable investment it is

    There is an out - the internal market. I'd imagine existing staff are buying for the very long term - with a return via annual dividends (assuming sufficient profit levels).


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Jimbobjones


    There is an out - the internal market. I'd imagine existing staff are buying for the very long term - with a return via annual dividends (assuming sufficient profit levels).

    But that's what all the talk is about .....internal market is not capable or won't be of giving everyone a fair out


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭ 00sully


    But that's what all the talk is about .....internal market is not capable or won't be of giving everyone a fair out

    My understanding with the vote is if approved, ESOP will be buying everyone out :-)


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Jimbobjones


    Didn't get that sentiment from the note...it talks about markets up to 2018 and another review!


  • Registered Users Posts: 25 cannellman


    Has anybody heard anything about the market that took place last Thursday ? I've had a look around the net but can't seem to see anything about it. Does anyone know how much they went for in the end ?

    Thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Jimbobjones


    Nothing yet


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Jimbobjones


    Anyone hear anything?


  • Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭ waldo


    Results announcement on the ESOP website. Weighted average 1.20. All forced buyers were bought out. Others had sales orders partially fulfilled.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Jimbobjones


    Anyone hear any market results


  • Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭ waldo


    Anyone hear any market results

    Results on the ESOP website. Avg purchase/sale price of €1.15.

    Values ESB at €2.3 Billion. 1.7 x 2015 EBITDA of €1,348m.

    The normal EV/EBITDA multiple of a listed integrated energy utility is approx 8-10x. (http://www.ey.com/Publication/vwLUAssets/ey-capital-outlook-power-and-utilities-article/$FILE/ey-capital-outlook-power-and-utilities.pdf)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭ 00sully


    any word on Today's results? Nothing on the site yet...


  • Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭ wiilow74


    00sully wrote: »
    any word on Today's results? Nothing on the site yet...

    Usually takes 5 to 7 days for results appear on the site , will probably hear next week .


  • Registered Users Posts: 9 mickey2012


    1.17 shares went for, all forced sellers sold. News up on website.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9 mickey2012


    mickey2012 wrote: »
    1.17 shares went for, all forced sellers sold. News up on website.

    A bit strange that they took it down off their site today though


  • Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭ waldo


    http://www.esbesop.ie/Market Results Announcement, 27 September 2017.pdf

    The link still works, but the notice was definitely removed. It will be interesting to see if it changes when the link goes back up!

    Voluntary sellers are only selling 7% of shares. Suggests a lot more sellers than buyers, even with the ESOP and ESB themselves buying. Liquidity is an issue


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭ 00sully


    mickey2012 wrote: »
    A bit strange that they took it down off their site today though

    still physically there though http://www.esbesop.ie/Market%20Results%20Announcement,%2027%20September%202017.pdf


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