Value of ESOP Shares

cannellman · 01-08-2014 12:30pm

Cheers, I wasn't sure how long we waited the last time, did think it was a few days so...

wiilow74 · 01-08-2014 1:00pm

The last market was on Sept 21st 2012 and they announced on the ESB ESOP webpage the results on the 25th Sept 2012 so it will probably be Tuesday or possibly Wednesday I reckon before we hear anything due to the bank holiday .

Bannerman7 · 02-08-2014 2:44pm

cannellman wrote: »

Hi all, does anyone know what the share price ended up as for the shares that went on the market yesterday ? I tried looking around the net but can't seem to find anything about it.

Cheers !

I was told by a person in the know that ESOP had bid €1:27 per share. He said that the price per share was expected to end up at €1:10 approx.
I haven't seen anything anywhere myself either so still waiting for news.

Comah11 · 06-08-2014 5:50pm

Notification on esop website, 91c per share😫

Bannerman7 · 06-08-2014 8:00pm

Comah11 wrote: »

Notification on esop website, 91c per share&#55357;&#56875;

Saw that when I checked ESB Esop website on phone today but its not showing on http://www.esbesop.ie/news.html here on laptop.
Last time they had a market day the sale price was €1
Looks like the shares will be worth fkuc all down the road.:eek:

Comah11 · 06-08-2014 8:23pm

Would agree with you, think anyone who sold today is lucky, next time we could be looking at 9 cent!!!

cannellman · 06-08-2014 11:53pm

I'm not seeing anything on the website, either on mobile or laptop, so where are people getting 91c out of ?

If it is true though, and it maybe is, that's bloody ridiculous. Down from 1 euro to 91c !!! Absolute joke.

Bannerman7 · 07-08-2014 3:28am

cannellman wrote: »

I'm not seeing anything on the website, either on mobile or laptop, so where are people getting 91c out of ?

If it is true though, and it maybe is, that's bloody ridiculous. Down from 1 euro to 91c !!! Absolute joke.

Yeah I feel the same.:(

I have copied & pasted whats on the website below.

Internal Market Results Announcement
The Internal Market held on 31 July 2014 has now been completed.

PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC), the Internal Market Administrator, has advised the

ESOP Trustee that the weighted average successful bid price was €0.91 per share

(the Market Price) and this is the price that will be paid to all successful sellers.

PwC are currently writing to all participants who took part in the internal market,

informing them of the success, or otherwise, of their bid to buy or offer to sell

shares. Payments to successful sellers and refunds to unsuccessful bidders will be

issued in the week beginning 11 August 2014.

The ESOP Trustee will be writing to all participants in due course.

ESB ESOP Trustee

6 August 2014

pokerseamus · 14-08-2014 3:45pm

anyone get a letter from esop yet, saying if they were successful or not ...

Jimbobjones · 14-08-2014 5:37pm

No,didn't recieve anything yet....it comes from pwc and not ESOP,they are very slow this time,difficult maths me thinks!!

Crimson125 · 14-08-2014 7:03pm

So clearly the market value of these shares is not being reached by a long shot in these internal markets.

It will be very interesting to see the breakdown of buyers once the report is out and to see how much esop itself purchased this time.

Seems strange that a company which isnt devaluing would have a devaluing of shares by 9% like this. Is the ESB now worth €3.66 bn now ? Down 9% ?

Jimbobjones · 14-08-2014 7:15pm

No it's not devaluing.....it's a dysfunctional market.....you'll find the ESOP purchased 4/5 million shares..they had funds available to do so from the dividends recieved over the course of the last year.....and possibly 1 million purchased by staff.....the ESOP still have the 3.6 million shares they purchased in 2012,they never done anything with them yet,and now also whatever they purchased this time....it's a strange setup and getting stranger

Crimson125 · 14-08-2014 7:21pm

Dysfunctional indeed.....

Qui bono ?!!!

Clearly someone benefits from sweeping up these shares at the lower manipulated dysfunctional price - who is that ?

Could this be a clear out of potential "problem" shareholders in advance of a privatisation effort of some sort ?

Jimbobjones · 14-08-2014 7:25pm

The potential problem you speak of doesent go away unless the 5% is pulled back into the company,but at what cost/price

Crimson125 · 14-08-2014 7:32pm

Jimbobjones wrote: »

The potential problem you speak of doesent go away unless the 5% is pulled back into the company,but at what cost/price

At the lowest possible price I would think.......And the irony of that is that the retired shareholder that has a fair value on their shares for the sale - between 1 & 2 euros - not only doesnt sell their shares, but also gets the capital of those shares value used to strip even more value out of them !

Current employees would do well to see how former employees are treated - so when "retirement benefits" are sold to current employees they have an example of one way those benefits can materialise........

Crimson125 · 14-08-2014 7:52pm

Jimbobjones wrote: »

The potential problem you speak of doesent go away unless the 5% is pulled back into the company,but at what cost/price

Also my understanding is that once the next one takes place, if shares are still owned they will be forced into sale at a price that is mandated by the market with no option to retain. Seems like a fly trap.

Isityourself · 11-03-2015 6:22pm

Any truth in the rumour that there may be another market in May/June???

Jimbobjones · 13-03-2015 5:17pm

Isityourself wrote: »

Any truth in the rumour that there may be another market in May/June???

End of may I think

Jimbobjones · 19-04-2015 9:25am

What does the latest letter mean does anyone know.......

mistertulip · 20-04-2015 4:28pm

It basically means that the market is likely to go ahead as planned at the end of May. It will be the last chance to sell before some sellers will not be able to set limit prices (market 3 of the series). There is a chance that the May market will be pulled, but that will require a vote by all members.

The technical overhang will not be easily sorted. Younger existing staff don't have the finances (or inclination) to purchase at the rates sellers want. Dividends are taxed at 50%, and falling profits puts the dividends to members at risk. This combined with potential liquidity issues adds to the investment uncertainty.

Sellers have the choice of a lower sell limit at the May auction or a potentially lower price during the auctions in years 4, 5, 6 of the market.

Jimbobjones · 20-04-2015 4:55pm

Yeah,but why would they want to pull the May market unless they have a solution of some kind in mind.....how or who is going to introduce liquidity into the market

Jimbobjones · 20-04-2015 5:03pm

Yeah,but why would they want to pull the May market unless they have a solution of some kind in mind.....how or who is going to introduce liquidity into the market

mistertulip · 20-04-2015 5:31pm

Jimbobjones wrote: »

Yeah,but why would they want to pull the May market unless they have a solution of some kind in mind.....how or who is going to introduce liquidity into the market

Thats the problem - ESB will not and cannot prop up the market (nor should they). Liquidity can only come with willing buyers - at the right price. The 60% overhang (amount held by retired staff) represents 60 million euros at 1 euro per share. That represents 8,500 eur per employee if each existing employee purchases the outstanding shares. What is the solution - a rigged market that is skewed in favour of sellers? The problem could be "kicked down the road" by extending the time that retired staff can hold shares, but this goes against ESOP rules.

Jimbobjones · 20-04-2015 10:23pm

But their has to be an out for all participants,not just the forced sellers.....if existing staff by the shares,where or how are they going to realise a return on their investment,and a valuable investment it is

mistertulip · 21-04-2015 7:23am

Jimbobjones wrote: »

But their has to be an out for all participants,not just the forced sellers.....if existing staff by the shares,where or how are they going to realise a return on their investment,and a valuable investment it is

There is an out - the internal market. I'd imagine existing staff are buying for the very long term - with a return via annual dividends (assuming sufficient profit levels).

Jimbobjones · 21-04-2015 10:30am

mistertulip wrote: »

There is an out - the internal market. I'd imagine existing staff are buying for the very long term - with a return via annual dividends (assuming sufficient profit levels).

But that's what all the talk is about .....internal market is not capable or won't be of giving everyone a fair out

00sully · 01-05-2015 11:33am

Jimbobjones wrote: »

But that's what all the talk is about .....internal market is not capable or won't be of giving everyone a fair out

My understanding with the vote is if approved, ESOP will be buying everyone out :-)

Jimbobjones · 01-05-2015 1:46pm

Didn't get that sentiment from the note...it talks about markets up to 2018 and another review!

cannellman · 28-09-2015 8:24pm

Has anybody heard anything about the market that took place last Thursday ? I've had a look around the net but can't seem to see anything about it. Does anyone know how much they went for in the end ?

Thanks.

Jimbobjones · 28-09-2015 8:49pm

Nothing yet

Jimbobjones · 30-09-2015 5:22pm

Anyone hear anything?

waldo · 30-09-2015 6:12pm

Results announcement on the ESOP website. Weighted average 1.20. All forced buyers were bought out. Others had sales orders partially fulfilled.

Jimbobjones · 26-09-2016 9:11am

Anyone hear any market results

waldo · 29-09-2016 11:09pm

Jimbobjones wrote: »

Anyone hear any market results

Results on the ESOP website. Avg purchase/sale price of €1.15.

Values ESB at €2.3 Billion. 1.7 x 2015 EBITDA of €1,348m.

The normal EV/EBITDA multiple of a listed integrated energy utility is approx 8-10x. (http://www.ey.com/Publication/vwLUAssets/ey-capital-outlook-power-and-utilities-article/$FILE/ey-capital-outlook-power-and-utilities.pdf)

00sully · 22-09-2017 4:47pm

any word on Today's results? Nothing on the site yet...

wiilow74 · 22-09-2017 5:25pm

00sully wrote: »

any word on Today's results? Nothing on the site yet...

Usually takes 5 to 7 days for results appear on the site , will probably hear next week .

mickey2012 · 28-09-2017 8:27pm

1.17 shares went for, all forced sellers sold. News up on website.

mickey2012 · 29-09-2017 9:07pm

mickey2012 wrote: »

1.17 shares went for, all forced sellers sold. News up on website.

A bit strange that they took it down off their site today though

waldo · 29-09-2017 10:29pm

http://www.esbesop.ie/Market Results Announcement, 27 September 2017.pdf

The link still works, but the notice was definitely removed. It will be interesting to see if it changes when the link goes back up!

Voluntary sellers are only selling 7% of shares. Suggests a lot more sellers than buyers, even with the ESOP and ESB themselves buying. Liquidity is an issue

00sully · 29-09-2017 10:34pm

mickey2012 wrote: »

A bit strange that they took it down off their site today though

still physically there though http://www.esbesop.ie/Market%20Results%20Announcement,%2027%20September%202017.pdf

Isityourself · 18-10-2017 10:00pm

Seeing as the ESOP has bought so many shares over the past number of years, was there not something about reissuing these shares to current staff??? or what will become of them....unless ESB buy them from ESOP anddissolve them....but they cannot do that outside of the market day??

Also while ESB have bought some already and dissolved them, does this mean the 5% holding of the company is being reduced, or does it mean that there are less shares for 5% of the holding of the company, making each share worth a little bit more in a 'real' market situation??

waldo · 19-10-2017 1:06am

Isityourself wrote: »

Seeing as the ESOP has bought so many shares over the past number of years, was there not something about reissuing these shares to current staff??? or what will become of them....unless ESB buy them from ESOP anddissolve them....but they cannot do that outside of the market day??

Also while ESB have bought some already and dissolved them, does this mean the 5% holding of the company is being reduced, or does it mean that there are less shares for 5% of the holding of the company, making each share worth a little bit more in a 'real' market situation??

Before the recent market, the ESOP had purchased about 19 million shares from ESOP forced and voluntary sellers. This is a good chunk of the 100 million shares issued to the ESOP. I understand that the ESOP intend to notionally allocate these on an equal basis to all qualifying participants. I don't know if that means all members of the ESOP, or all current staff with the required qualifying service. These shares will distributed on an equal basis (not pro-rata).

The ESOP have delayed this process (my opinion only) because they are getting dividends on these 19 million shares (of 100m issued to the ESOP). This information is available from the ESOP market documents issued to staff. These dividends are then used to "support" the market. 7% of voluntary sellers shares were sold in the last market, which indicates a very high level of sellers, or a reluctance on behalf of the ESOP to buy up shares of voluntary sellers (maybe a mixture of both).

There is very very little interest from staff in purchasing in the internal markets. I don't know why because the potential market value is closer to 4-6 Billion or 2-3 euros per share, perhaps much more. Some staff are not allowed because entry to the scheme has been closed for many years now. I'm sure lots of staff don't even know it exists, given the lack of (any) notifications internally.

There are 2 billion shares, so if ESB Group buys some from the ESOP then the % of the ESOP holding will drop by a corresponding amount. It will not increase the "value" of remaining shares. ESB Group may cancel them or sell them back to staff in future markets.

wiilow74 · 10-11-2017 1:39am

Anyone know if there are any dividend payments to be paid for shares before the end of the year , they had a payment last year on the 28th of October and one on the 23rd of October 2015 but none after the internal market so far , anyone know why ?

mickey2012 · 24-09-2018 8:35pm

Hi did anyone find out how much the shares went for today?

Jimbobjones · 25-09-2018 6:13pm

No,didn’t hear anything.......any news today?

waldo · 25-09-2018 9:36pm

Jimbobjones wrote: »

No,didn’t hear anything.......any news today?

News won’t be out for a few days, but if you ring Pwc they will tell you what your sales/purchases etc went for.

waldo · 01-10-2018 7:21pm

waldo wrote: »

News won’t be out for a few days, but if you ring Pwc they will tell you what your sales/purchases etc went for.

Results are up. 1.09 to all successful sellers.
Interestingly the % of voluntarily offered shares sold is up from 7% to 28%.

Jimbobjones · 01-10-2018 11:07pm

waldo wrote: »

Results are up. 1.09 to all successful sellers.
Interestingly the % of voluntarily offered shares sold is up from 7% to 28%.

Yeah seen that.........the board buying hard.....going to buy them all back at some stage I’d say

Value of ESOP Shares

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